A letter to my asexual wife, from a sexual husband.

[Rich and her]

Dear Wife,

I do not know where to even begin. We have been married almost 17 years and have three amazing young children together. Every time we have a substantial disagreement with each other, it is always centered on sexual interaction. I try and try and try to no avail. It seems you never want it, think about it. It is like I am married to a nun of the convent. I feel so disconnected, unsatisfied, and unwanted. This has been plaguing our relationship and causing stress, anger, frustration, guilt, ...you get the picture. Two days ago, out of no where...you, my wife of 17 years... tells me that "you are not sexually attracted to me, and never was." This was devastating and completely shattered my world. Why? How could you? Have I lived a facade for half my adult life? I am 40 years old and will be loosing my urges in the future and want to make the most of what I have left. I feel like so much wasted time has already gone by. Darling, I am a very sexual person and connect that with a loving and healthy relationship, That is how I feel close, connected, and loved. It is how I express my love. Sexual intimacy is so very important to me. You have birthed and mothered three kids, and you still have it sweetie. I still come home to you after a long day at work, I still sleep in our bed every night, I always want to experience this, but to have you not reciprocate these feelings...it hurts terribly.

After doing some research with you, we are pretty sure that you now identify as Gray Sexual. So I am here, on this site, trying to learn more, trying to be understanding and supportive....and I am not finding a lot of hope here for us. How can two people at opposite ends possibly come together in some sort of compromise? I have needs, you don't. I feel them daily, and especially in your presence. You don't. Not even a glance or a thought towards me.

I know you feel sad because of the the agony that I am feeling since you told me. I know it hurts you as I strive to process this new information. I know you wish you had not said anything at all and kept your mouth shut. Doing this wouldn't have helped us in the long run. Please understand that I need time to process. I need to sift through my emotions and go through the motions. I feel like a lot of me and most of our marriage died that day you told me and all that is left is planning the funeral. I do not even know the emotions I am feeling. These are all new to me, I am sorry I have been disconnected with emotions for so many years. A lot of this is due to PTSD, Survivor Guilt, and growing up in an untreated bi-polar father household. It is very hard for me to trust, and express what I truly feel. A lot of people expect us men to be strong, fine, okay. We carry the weight of the world on our shoulders so our families do not have to. We do things we don't want to do. We give and give and give and people take and take and take....we are so exhausted...tired.....but have to keep going. We are not allowed to feel, to be hurting. My feelings have been buried for so long, I am just now as of four weeks ago letting them out and practicing letting my walls down and being vulnerable and open...especially with you. All these feelings in me are terrifying, I hate it, it is so uncomfortable...but necessary to experience so we can have a deeper connected relationship (if that is what you desire to pursue). I do not understand.

We were both virgins when we met and waited until marriage to have sexual contact and we have been completely faithful to each other and have had no other relationships or partners. I was 23 and saving myself for my wife. You were 22 and saving yourself for you husband. I wonder now why? Why was that so important to me? "My wife is not attracted to me....." these words just keep repeating over and over. I feel so much right now. I feel anger, I did not wait 23 years to get married and have sex to have to fight for it all the time. Ten of those years was a battle of puberty and teenage hormones but I fought through them and remained strong, only to find out that I am married to someone who doesn't want or need or even think about sexual intimacy. So many other females have tried to seduce me, to get me to cheat on you with them but I fought it all away. I am sad, that we are just now finding all this out together and feel that 16 years of my live has been empty, wasted, worthless. I feel shocked, depressed, scared, and not wanted. It is like you keep me around for protection and to fix things that need repaired. I feel like I am nothing but a 2X4 in the garage that stays out of sight and out of mind until you need a project done. I feel deceived and manipulated, which I know is silly because you just came to the Gray Sexual conclusion yourself...so you couldn't have tricked me for 17 years...leading me along. Knowing this does not help though. It hurts so much! I do not know where to turn for support, I don't have friends who can help, you are the only close person in my life. I don't even know if there are support groups for men in my position. It cannot be all that common.

I want you to know how much I love you. How much I respect and admire the courage it must have taken to tell me what you did. How scared you must have been. The trust you had to feel in order to do that. You are so very strong. I hope you keep sharing your deepest feelings even if it hurts because otherwise our communication is broken and we will drift apart again. What would be the point of continuing on. I am willing to go to couples counseling to work through this with you but I am scared to death at what may be on the other side of it all. Who can I talk to? Where can I turn? I feel like a little boat being tossed around on the mighty Pacific Ocean. My boat does not have a rudder, sail, or engine and a storm is coming. I am so lost and scared and alone. Does anyone hear the distress call? Is anyone even listening? Will anyone even care to help?

[Milque Toast]

16 minutes ago, Rich and Rin said:

It hurts so much! I do not know where to turn for support, I don't have friends who can help, you are the only close person in my life. I don't even know if there are support groups for men in my position. It cannot be all that common.

Your letter was very emotionally driven, and I'm not entirely sure if I can give the best advice...

But I just wanted to let you know that AVEN was a very good place to come to for advice and help. 

I don't know how many there are in your position exactly... but I can say that there are many supportive asexuals on the site who may be able to help you and your wife figure out how you both are feeling and what you can do to deal with it.

I wish you the best of luck with everything ! ❤️

 

[YourePerfect]

Sorry, here's my too-rational thoughts:

For asexuals it's hard to understand allosexual people, I'd say, harder than for allosexual to try to understand asexuality (because how can you understand something you never experienced). If you can't get into sexual excitement, sex is going to be dissatisfied. But if you know how feels sexual excitement you want it to experience more and more. So here's where to start: when does your wife experience sexual excitement, at least a little bit, but still?

[anisotrophic]

Joint therapy sounds good. But also, I’m skeptical of joint therapy in the absence of individual therapy: to each understand themselves better, their own needs and wants and boundaries.

 

Individual therapy for yourself is likely to be valuable, maybe more important, and at least an important first step.

 

Individual therapy for your partner might be important, to understand herself. You can’t make her do it, but you can be supportive — and role model it.

 

You need to be able to express the pain and vulnerability to others — to a partner, to a friend, and they to you, but that can’t always come first. In particular, I know from firsthand experience that testosterone makes it harder to cry. I’m not saying crying is necessary, but it makes communicating pain harder — less likely to be noticed or believed or fully appreciated. And when we can’t trust someone to do that, it becomes harder and harder to express it. Distance and isolation grows. Pain become the root of other emotions, like anger.

Sexual rejection hurts, being undesired hurts — and being told it was never there, and that it never can be — when sexuality is an expression of love for you, it’s a message of not being loved. It hurts to the core.

 

And all the time and paths you did not take, this hurts. It’s part of being human, one of the hardest and most painful lessons I think everyone must face — in one form or another — as they grow older.

I’m sorry. I remember taking long walks alone, just needing to process it… walking nowhere, sometimes sitting down to cry alone. There’s a lot of grieving you may need to experience, and doing it alone is hard. A forum helps, and a therapist might further help — they can give you more time, a deeper understanding of your individual situation. (And partners too, if you feel able to share it with them; my partner held me as I cried… but it was easier for me to cry, when I was more female.)
 

Sexuality can be radically different between people. And it can be sensitive to so many factors. Understanding oneself, and then each other’s experience of it is important … and unfortunately something that can come later in life, in a relationship, after paths were already taken. Maybe you can do it now: not rushed, but not avoiding it. There’s going to be more paths in front of you. I’m not saying they’re easy, but there’s no option to “not take paths”.

[ryn2]

1 hour ago, anisotrophic said:

Joint therapy sounds good. But also, I’m skeptical of joint therapy in the absence of individual therapy: to each understand themselves better, their own needs and wants and boundaries.

 

Individual therapy for yourself is likely to be valuable, maybe more important, and at least an important first step.

 

Individual therapy for your partner might be important, to understand herself. You can’t make her do it, but you can be supportive — and role model it.

Seconded!  Joint therapy has a very different purpose than individual and can be rendered much more difficult/less effective by people not having the tools to understand themselves, process things that elicit defensiveness, establish boundaries, etc.

[naturerhythms]

I admire the courage both you and your partner have shown.

 

One thing I realized through my process, which had several things in common with yours, is that our (both my and my partner's) prior understanding had been limited by a culture that doesn't talk openly and honestly enough about sexuality--in a deeper and more profound way that includes less-understood topics like asexuality, not just the superficial exposure way that is everywhere.

 

As I came to understand my partner's asexuality, I also realized I had a lot more to learn about my own sexuality. (This ties a bit into what @anisotrophic and @ryn2 have already said re: both individual and couples therapy having different types of value.) For example, if sex had always been so important to me, why had I been attracted to a partner who didn't give off sexual vibes in the same way as many other women I had been around?

 

In my case, I had internalized a very unfortunate but still very pervasive cultural message--that sexually expressive potential partners aren't the kind you "bring home to mom," i.e., people who are also nurturing, stable, capable of being good parents, etc. Embedded in that was some of my own judgment of sexuality as dirty, bad, shameful, etc. That's just the tip of the iceberg. (Look up the term "madonna-whore complex" and see if it turns on any light bulbs.)

 

Given your ability to communicate your emotions in a detailed and vulnerable way, I imagine you'll both learn a lot about yourselves as your journey continues. You'll probably learn a great deal and gain a lot of perspective here, but as has already been suggested, don't try to do it without some therapist support.

[ryn2]

2 hours ago, naturerhythms said:

if sex had always been so important to me, why had I been attracted to a partner who didn't give off sexual vibes in the same way as many other women I had been around?

 

In my case, I had internalized a very unfortunate but still very pervasive cultural message--that sexually expressive potential partners aren't the kind you "bring home to mom," i.e., people who are also nurturing, stable, capable of being good parents, etc. Embedded in that was some of my own judgment of sexuality as dirty, bad, shameful, etc.

Yes, I think this is unfortunately both common and damaging in a whole lot of ways.  We have (and thus internalize) a lot of really unhelpful cultural messages about sex and sexuality.

[Emotional Response]

I feel your pain and identify with a lot of what you wrote.

 

It may be helpful to consider this... If asexuality is the fourth sexuality then how can you as a sexual person continue in a relationship with someone who doesn't identify as such? If your wife told you she was gay would you think the relationship could be saved? After all, even if you stay married she will never love you the way you need to be loved. 

 

As for me after twelve years of marriage to an asexual, I now watch more porn and masturbate more than I ever did as a teenager. The only 'sexual contact' I have with my wife on a day to day is a 'peck' on the lips in the morning and evening. I no longer sleep in the same room as her as doing so leads to even more sexual frustration. By remaining married I have chosen to let a part of me no longer exist. I think it is good to be clear for yourself as to what potentially the future holds. 

 

You may ask yourself this question at some point; should I stay or should I go? Only you will be able to provide the answer. I have decided to stay for now as I want to keep the family together and not cause my children distress. Although I question if I am damaging them anyway by staying; by teaching them that my unhappy marriage is somehow normal. Only time will tell how much damage my wife and I have done to our children by remaining married. But your interaction with your wife may be different to my interaction with mine. 

 

I would say whatever conclusions you come to, make sure it's the right one for you, as you sound like a lovely guy and you deserve to be happy. 

[naturerhythms]

A brief addendum to my reply above: As is the case with the OP, there were many other things that I loved dearly about my partner and found attractive. However, as one couples therapist (I think it was David Schnarch, but not recalling for sure) observed, when a couple with at least one sexually motivated partner is in agreement about sex, it might feel like 10% of the relationship. But when they're not, it can feel more like 90%.

[YourePerfect]

Sorry if it's a bit off topic, but can be karezza in some way as a good solution for both partners?

[Mountain House]

39 minutes ago, Anguis said:

Sorry if it's a bit off topic, but can be karezza in some way as a good solution for both partners?

Yes.  What sex is in a relationship is defined by those in it. 

[YourePerfect]

@Mountain House I mean, a solution if one partner is asexual and other is heterosexual...

[Rich and her]

On 6/9/2021 at 5:22 PM, Padparadscha said:

Your letter was very emotionally driven, and I'm not entirely sure if I can give the best advice...

But I just wanted to let you know that AVEN was a very good place to come to for advice and help. 

I don't know how many there are in your position exactly... but I can say that there are many supportive asexuals on the site who may be able to help you and your wife figure out how you both are feeling and what you can do to deal with it.

I wish you the best of luck with everything ! ❤️

 

Thank you, I appreciate the time you took to offer counsel. This journey is necessary but not fun.

[Rich and her]

On 6/9/2021 at 5:30 PM, Anguis said:

Sorry, here's my too-rational thoughts:

For asexuals it's hard to understand allosexual people, I'd say, harder than for allosexual to try to understand asexuality (because how can you understand something you never experienced). If you can't get into sexual excitement, sex is going to be dissatisfied. But if you know how feels sexual excitement you want it to experience more and more. So here's where to start: when does your wife experience sexual excitement, at least a little bit, but still?

She experiences sexual excitement very rarely on her own. Once or twice a year. Many time she can be persuaded and stimulated which results in a climax 99% of the time but even though it is enjoyable and comforting, she hardly ever instigates the action. It just does not cross her mind.

[Rich and her]

On 6/10/2021 at 7:20 AM, anisotrophic said:

Joint therapy sounds good. But also, I’m skeptical of joint therapy in the absence of individual therapy: to each understand themselves better, their own needs and wants and boundaries.

 

Individual therapy for yourself is likely to be valuable, maybe more important, and at least an important first step.

 

Individual therapy for your partner might be important, to understand herself. You can’t make her do it, but you can be supportive — and role model it.

 

You need to be able to express the pain and vulnerability to others — to a partner, to a friend, and they to you, but that can’t always come first. In particular, I know from firsthand experience that testosterone makes it harder to cry. I’m not saying crying is necessary, but it makes communicating pain harder — less likely to be noticed or believed or fully appreciated. And when we can’t trust someone to do that, it becomes harder and harder to express it. Distance and isolation grows. Pain become the root of other emotions, like anger.

Sexual rejection hurts, being undesired hurts — and being told it was never there, and that it never can be — when sexuality is an expression of love for you, it’s a message of not being loved. It hurts to the core.

 

And all the time and paths you did not take, this hurts. It’s part of being human, one of the hardest and most painful lessons I think everyone must face — in one form or another — as they grow older.

I’m sorry. I remember taking long walks alone, just needing to process it… walking nowhere, sometimes sitting down to cry alone. There’s a lot of grieving you may need to experience, and doing it alone is hard. A forum helps, and a therapist might further help — they can give you more time, a deeper understanding of your individual situation. (And partners too, if you feel able to share it with them; my partner held me as I cried… but it was easier for me to cry, when I was more female.)
 

Sexuality can be radically different between people. And it can be sensitive to so many factors. Understanding oneself, and then each other’s experience of it is important … and unfortunately something that can come later in life, in a relationship, after paths were already taken. Maybe you can do it now: not rushed, but not avoiding it. There’s going to be more paths in front of you. I’m not saying they’re easy, but there’s no option to “not take paths”.

The joint therapy was yesterday and it was productive. You are correct when you say that individual therapy is going to be a must. We are doing a joint one more time together and then independent. I enjoyed the last session with her.

[naturerhythms]

4 hours ago, Anguis said:

Sorry if it's a bit off topic, but can be karezza in some way as a good solution for both partners?

Sexuality professionals often recommend that couples explore different types of sensual touch outside of, or in addition to, intercourse and other genitally-focused stimulation. Such experiments might lead a couple to discover that they can mutually enjoy sexual intimacy, or they might not. I don't know if much data exist for the effectiveness of such approaches where the less- or non-interested partner is asexual. (Or, for that matter, in cases where an asexual partner is more interested in sex than an allosexual partner.)

[Sarah-Sylvia]

@Rich and RinI only now read your open letter, and I'd like to say thank you for sharing it, it allowed me to see raw feelings from someone sexual , for how they feel and how it can make them feel when there's a lack of sexual intimacy.

I'm graysexual myself and it's still surprising when I hear things like this:

Quote

That is how I feel close, connected, and loved. It is how I express my love. Sexual intimacy is so very important to me.

It reminds me of how I feel about sensual intimacy, since my language of love is touch, and it's very very hard for me to see how it can or could extent into sex, but I know it's because we feel so differently about that part. So your post helps me see (intellectually at the very least) how what  i feel is important for my own intimacy can be in a different realm for others. That 'gap' is definitely something that makes it hard for someone on the ace spectrum to relate with someone who's sexual (and vice versa)

I'm sure you know that someone ace can still be attracted to someone, including for who they are, and their heart, and in lots of ways that isn't sexual, but it's probably very useful to try to help that seep in, so that you know you are loved and everything else, even if she doesn't connect all that to sexuality. But I know it's more complicated too for you.

I hope things can work out. It's important you both can be true to yourselves, and where that will lead you is really up to you and her.
Best wishes ❤️

[YourePerfect]

31 minutes ago, Rich and Rin said:

She experiences sexual excitement very rarely on her own. Once or twice a year. Many time she can be persuaded and stimulated which results in a climax 99% of the time but even though it is enjoyable and comforting, she hardly ever instigates the action. It just does not cross her mind.

Thank you for reply! I didn't know there's possible to experience climax for asexual who very rarely experiences sexual excitement.

[Rich and her]

On 6/10/2021 at 8:44 AM, ryn2 said:

Seconded!  Joint therapy has a very different purpose than individual and can be rendered much more difficult/less effective by people not having the tools to understand themselves, process things that elicit defensiveness, establish boundaries, etc.

You are exact and experienced when you say that having the tools to understand and process is important. I do not have those tools yet so counseling will assist with this greatly. The first step we took was understanding the underlying emotions. I was given an emotion wheel that was color coded. It showed the main emotion along with all the hidden ones that I never recognized. My PTSD and survivor guilt suppressed so many for so long.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Anguis said:

Sorry if it's a bit off topic, but can be karezza in some way as a good solution for both partners?

That's kind of the general line of thinking my partner and I went down, and it certainly is a valid consideration. We're not "quite that sexual", but we did expand our concept of what sex is and find it helpful.

[Rich and her]

On 6/10/2021 at 1:45 PM, naturerhythms said:

I admire the courage both you and your partner have shown.

 

One thing I realized through my process, which had several things in common with yours, is that our (both my and my partner's) prior understanding had been limited by a culture that doesn't talk openly and honestly enough about sexuality--in a deeper and more profound way that includes less-understood topics like asexuality, not just the superficial exposure way that is everywhere.

 

As I came to understand my partner's asexuality, I also realized I had a lot more to learn about my own sexuality. (This ties a bit into what @anisotrophic and @ryn2 have already said re: both individual and couples therapy having different types of value.) For example, if sex had always been so important to me, why had I been attracted to a partner who didn't give off sexual vibes in the same way as many other women I had been around?

 

In my case, I had internalized a very unfortunate but still very pervasive cultural message--that sexually expressive potential partners aren't the kind you "bring home to mom," i.e., people who are also nurturing, stable, capable of being good parents, etc. Embedded in that was some of my own judgment of sexuality as dirty, bad, shameful, etc. That's just the tip of the iceberg. (Look up the term "madonna-whore complex" and see if it turns on any light bulbs.)

 

Given your ability to communicate your emotions in a detailed and vulnerable way, I imagine you'll both learn a lot about yourselves as your journey continues. You'll probably learn a great deal and gain a lot of perspective here, but as has already been suggested, don't try to do it without some therapist support.

This was us also, the culture that does not discuss sexuality. Both of us came from homes that avoided the subject. We learned from internet and tv which we all know is fake. Reading and research helped but when you are told that anything sex related is bad and dirty it becomes a part of you. Then all of the sudden, you are married at it is okay but no one knows anything about sex...other than what you see mainstream media. Lucky for me, it was not a big deal who I brought home...I grew up a lot sooner than many due to home issues. Rarely did I worry about what my parent might say or do. I will look into madonna whore complex and thank you for the lead. Thank you.

[Rich and her]

18 hours ago, Emotional Response said:

I feel your pain and identify with a lot of what you wrote.

 

It may be helpful to consider this... If asexuality is the fourth sexuality then how can you as a sexual person continue in a relationship with someone who doesn't identify as such? If your wife told you she was gay would you think the relationship could be saved? After all, even if you stay married she will never love you the way you need to be loved. 

 

As for me after twelve years of marriage to an asexual, I now watch more porn and masturbate more than I ever did as a teenager. The only 'sexual contact' I have with my wife on a day to day is a 'peck' on the lips in the morning and evening. I no longer sleep in the same room as her as doing so leads to even more sexual frustration. By remaining married I have chosen to let a part of me no longer exist. I think it is good to be clear for yourself as to what potentially the future holds. 

 

You may ask yourself this question at some point; should I stay or should I go? Only you will be able to provide the answer. I have decided to stay for now as I want to keep the family together and not cause my children distress. Although I question if I am damaging them anyway by staying; by teaching them that my unhappy marriage is somehow normal. Only time will tell how much damage my wife and I have done to our children by remaining married. But your interaction with your wife may be different to my interaction with mine. 

 

I would say whatever conclusions you come to, make sure it's the right one for you, as you sound like a lovely guy and you deserve to be happy. 

This hurts to read. Your contact consists of pecks on the lips and separate rooms. I sure hope to avoid this way of living for me. I do not think I could...that intimate sexual part of me is very strong. The future makes me nervous but also hopeful. I like to believe that we can work through it and find a compromise that fits us both instead of one giving everything up. I feel your pain about the example you set for your kids. Mine have kept me from walking away and giving up twice over the years. Thank you for your insights.

[Rich and her]

8 hours ago, Anguis said:

Sorry if it's a bit off topic, but can be karezza in some way as a good solution for both partners?

I had to look this word up....I had never heard it. It seems to be a fancy term for cuddling. Please let me know if there is more depth to it. I love cuddling to an extent but at some point, maybe twice a week I need the sexual release with my wife to complete the emotional closeness....the bond that connects two souls. Without that it is like dating all over again without any real substance. Cuddling up to a good book, or movie, or just snuggling to talk is nice...but if that is all that it comes to I would have to walk rather than be so very unhappy. This worries me.

[Rich and her]

4 hours ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

@Rich and RinI only now read your open letter, and I'd like to say thank you for sharing it, it allowed me to see raw feelings from someone sexual , for how they feel and how it can make them feel when there's a lack of sexual intimacy.

I'm graysexual myself and it's still surprising when I hear things like this:

It reminds me of how I feel about sensual intimacy, since my language of love is touch, and it's very very hard for me to see how it can or could extent into sex, but I know it's because we feel so differently about that part. So your post helps me see (intellectually at the very least) how what  i feel is important for my own intimacy can be in a different realm for others. That 'gap' is definitely something that makes it hard for someone on the ace spectrum to relate with someone who's sexual (and vice versa)

I'm sure you know that someone ace can still be attracted to someone, including for who they are, and their heart, and in lots of ways that isn't sexual, but it's probably very useful to try to help that seep in, so that you know you are loved and everything else, even if she doesn't connect all that to sexuality. But I know it's more complicated too for you.

I hope things can work out. It's important you both can be true to yourselves, and where that will lead you is really up to you and her.
Best wishes ❤️

You are welcome...the writing is from deep within my heart....a place I was scared to visit. Physical touch is my primary love language...but at some point there has to be a sexual experience about twice a week for me to feel that closeness. Her and I have talked in depth over the last few days and she has expressed her attraction to me in other ways other than sexual, this softens the blow...however does nothing to fill that empty void that has been created. The hurt is real and my desire for sexual experience with her is intense. That completes us, the bond that I desire.

[Rich and her]

4 hours ago, Anguis said:

Thank you for reply! I didn't know there's possible to experience climax for asexual who very rarely experiences sexual excitement.

Yes, it is possible to climax. She may not instigate the sexual contact (very frustrating) but after some (or a lot of...depending on the kids)  foreplay she is able to experience one. Through penetration, clitoris stimulation, and oral on her. Afterwords, she always comments on how nice that felt and that we should do it more.....and then nothing, until I can't stand it anymore and try to get her in the mood again....days or weeks later. Very one sided and I am tired. I crave someone to chase me, to want me, to instigate and plan, and make it special after a long day at work.

[anisotrophic]

11 hours ago, Rich and Rin said:

I crave someone to chase me, to want me, to instigate and plan, and make it special after a long day at work.

Well… a non-initiator is probably never going to become an initiator. Someone who has never fantasized about sex might never change.

 

And accepting that was hard for me … it’s a facet of sexuality, but one of the most enduring. On the other hand, it’s worth appreciating if a partner is willing to interact sexually, and does seem to enjoy it.

 

At this point I can’t imagine what it’s like to be desired, to have a partner start or plan it. I recall that absence hurt a lot. But eventually I stopped wanting this, because I stopped fantasizing about being desired. Wanting that impossibility only hurt me. I’m not rejected provided I learn the road (when and how to initiate), and we go somewhere when I bring the gas.

 

I think testosterone helped. For me, I think the acceptance became part of becoming more male. Individual therapy helped, to get to a place of acceptance, to question my own “need” to feel desired.
 

If you’re a heterosexual male, it might be worth reflecting that initiating and sexual pursuit behaviors are generally less common in women. (But there’s a ton of variation in sexuality; my husband is like this too.)

 

At some point I decided, “ah, if I’m the only one driving, I can decide where we go.” Which seemed… not so bad.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Rich and Rin said:

Yes, it is possible to climax. She may not instigate the sexual contact (very frustrating) but after some (or a lot of...depending on the kids)  foreplay she is able to experience one. Through penetration, clitoris stimulation, and oral on her. Afterwords, she always comments on how nice that felt and that we should do it more.....and then nothing, until I can't stand it anymore and try to get her in the mood again....days or weeks later. Very one sided and I am tired. I crave someone to chase me, to want me, to instigate and plan, and make it special after a long day at work.

Hm...

 

Is it possible she is reactive desire (since you two settled on grey)? 

 

I have reactive desire and it's very difficult to remember to initiate (takes conscious effort) because of it. I don't feel anything sexual until my wife is feeling it / showing it to me, then I respond and enjoy.  But, she doesn't like to initiate a lot and I don't remember to sometimes ... so it's a joint effort to remember to do so because we both want it, just she feels like she may push and I feel nothing sexual until she is expressing her own desire for me to react to. Makes it logistically annoying but we both enjoy our sex life. 

[Rich and her]

1 hour ago, Serran said:

Hm...

 

Is it possible she is reactive desire (since you two settled on grey)? 

 

I have reactive desire and it's very difficult to remember to initiate (takes conscious effort) because of it. I don't feel anything sexual until my wife is feeling it / showing it to me, then I respond and enjoy.  But, she doesn't like to initiate a lot and I don't remember to sometimes ... so it's a joint effort to remember to do so because we both want it, just she feels like she may push and I feel nothing sexual until she is expressing her own desire for me to react to. Makes it logistically annoying but we both enjoy our sex life. 

No, I don't think reactive desire is correct. I need to look into it more to understand it better though. She does not feel anything sexual or show it. That part of her seems to not exist. I wish there was a side of her for teasing, playing, building up to the moment....but accomplishing that in her would be equivalent to holding back the oceans tide.

[Rich and her]

2 hours ago, anisotrophic said:

Well… a non-initiator is probably never going to become an initiator. Someone who has never fantasized about sex might never change.

 

And accepting that was hard for me … it’s a facet of sexuality, but one of the most enduring. On the other hand, it’s worth appreciating if a partner is willing to interact sexually, and does seem to enjoy it.

 

At this point I can’t imagine what it’s like to be desired, to have a partner start or plan it. I recall that absence hurt a lot. But eventually I stopped wanting this, because I stopped fantasizing about being desired. Wanting that impossibility only hurt me. I’m not rejected provided I learn the road (when and how to initiate), and we go somewhere when I bring the gas.

 

I think testosterone helped. For me, I think the acceptance became part of becoming more male. Individual therapy helped, to get to a place of acceptance, to question my own “need” to feel desired.
 

If you’re a heterosexual male, it might be worth reflecting that initiating and sexual pursuit behaviors are generally less common in women. (But there’s a ton of variation in sexuality; my husband is like this too.)

 

At some point I decided, “ah, if I’m the only one driving, I can decide where we go.” Which seemed… not so bad.

Yes, it is most likely never going to happen. I am working to move past this and accept the fact that I will always be the pressure when it comes to sexual intimacy. To be honest with how I feel about this I am sad. Having someone want you and chase you down is flattering and endearing. I enjoy it and always wanted someone to enjoy the chase and mutually in marriage we would play back and forth depending on who goes first in the game of life. I believe I can accept that this will be none existent in my marriage and will work to accept that.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Rich and Rin said:

No, I don't think reactive desire is correct. I need to look into it more to understand it better though. She does not feel anything sexual or show it. That part of her seems to not exist. I wish there was a side of her for teasing, playing, building up to the moment....but accomplishing that in her would be equivalent to holding back the oceans tide.

Well, you said she says she enjoys it and would like to do it more during sex / orgasm. The teasing and building up isn't a thing all people are into - reactive desire just means she needs someone else to react to, to want or enjoy sexual activity. My ex who is sexual hated teasing, build up or anything sensual.. it was let's get to the genital stimulation ASAP, OK done.... was mechanical and boring. That's more personality than anything. But, desire reacting is more... if you're in the moment of sex, maybe she actually does mean we should do it more but she has to be in that point to desire it so otherwise she doesn't think of sex since it's not reacting to you so she doesn't initiate for that reason? More a thing she'd only think of during sex and her mind doesn't naturally go there without it happening already.