Feeling confused and betrayed

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48 minutes ago, Mountain House said:

Oh, I meant to mention this.  You need to come to terms with this feeling you have about yourself.  Many of us here have experienced this.

 

Feelings are not facts.

 

This one is for you to conquer.

 

 

[EDIT]

 

Okay, I didn't feel good leaving that there like that.

 

Feelings come from our lizard brain and are there on purpose.  They are a warning that something isn't right.  For example, I am feeling freaked out and scared by that clump of grass.  On the surface it seems strange to be scared of a clump of grass.

 

You need to acknowledge your feelings and assess what they are trying to tell you - what does it mean.  Is there a lion ready to pounce?

 

Then you need to look over the situation to see if the message is a real threat.  Sometimes there is a lion and sometimes it's just the breeze.

 

Either way, the feeling protected you and did its job.  All feelings are proper and real and valid but they are not facts.

 

I understand that, but this isn’t just a feeling? I had sex with someone who didn’t want to have sex with me, and she only consented to keep me from being upset. That’s something people in abusive relationships do, it’s like I coerced her without realizing it. 

[Sarah-Sylvia]

1 minute ago, ConfusedCripple said:

I understand that, but this isn’t just a feeling? I had sex with someone who didn’t want to have sex with me, and she only consented to keep me from being upset. That’s something people in abusive relationships do, it’s like I coerced her without realizing it. 

I mentioned before but there are many asexuals who went along sex because they thought they have to. None of them thinks of their partner as being abusive.
It comes from society's norms around sex, and the lack of awareness around asexuality.

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29 minutes ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

For some people, it can take more for them to share their feelings. The more you can make her feel comfortable that it's ok, it can help her feel more comforatble to share. You can still say that you want to know how she feels so that she's happy with things too. If she can understand that it's ok to share her feelings, she might open up more. Hopefully.

That’s all I’ve been trying to do our entire relationship though 😞

[Mountain House]

7 minutes ago, ConfusedCripple said:

and now I’m being told I have to be okay with it

No one is telling you you have to be okay with this.  I wouldn't be okay with this.  The gist of what I've been saying is that you each need to identify your own true self and path to happiness and then you need to communicate it.

 

Taking her word for it might mean gracefully accepting that she wants to break up even if that is not what you want.

[Sarah-Sylvia]

2 minutes ago, ConfusedCripple said:

That’s all I’ve been trying to do our entire relationship though 😞

Don't give up (unless you don't want to be with her anymore). It's hard to know everything going on so I'm not sure what do add. But I do hope you could see a therapist for some things, because they might have enough time with you to help you through some of it. I also find it hard to get a feel of things from text online. Not to say it's not worth talking it out like you are. I hope it can help at least a little.

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5 minutes ago, Mountain House said:

And that, as I pointed out earlier, is all you can do.

We’re talking about two different things here. Her confessing to me after years of misunderstandings and hours of painful conversation that she doesn’t like sex, I believe. Her afterwards trying to say that everything is fine and offering to have sex with me, I don’t believe. If I were to take everything at face value, that would require me to believe both that she hates sex and never wants to have it again AND also loves it and wants to have it all the time. 

[Mountain House]

5 minutes ago, ConfusedCripple said:

this isn’t just a feeling?

It is.  She is as complicit in this as you are.  You are both learning.  Again, many of us have dealt with this very thing.

 

3 minutes ago, ConfusedCripple said:

That’s all I’ve been trying to do our entire relationship though 😞

If she is avoidant then this may never change.  Communication may never happen.  What then for you?  How does this fit into your idea of life happiness?  What is your path forward given this truth?

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1 minute ago, Mountain House said:

It is.  She is as complicit in this as you are.  You are both learning.  Again, many of us have dealt with this very thing.

 

If she is avoidant then this may never change.  Communication may never happen.  What then for you?  How does this fit into your idea of life happiness?  What is your path forward given this truth?

I mean if that’s true I’m still screwed no matter what I do. 

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9 minutes ago, Mountain House said:

No one is telling you you have to be okay with this.  I wouldn't be okay with this.  The gist of what I've been saying is that you each need to identify your own true self and path to happiness and then you need to communicate it.

 

Taking her word for it might mean gracefully accepting that she wants to break up even if that is not what you want.

Right, but she would never in a million years tell me if she wanted to break up. I’d have to either beg with her for hours to tell me the truth or I’d have to figure it out on my own. 

[Mountain House]

2 minutes ago, ConfusedCripple said:

We’re talking about two different things here.

Actually, we're not but I do see the disconnect.

 

Take her word for it without excluding your words.  She says that she doesn't want sex ever again.  You believe and proceed with this knowledge.  She comes to you and says she want to have sex.  Now you feel something is amiss.  Time to speak up:

I feel uncomfortable with this new bit of information.  Could you confirm that this is something congruent with your true self to help me overcome the uneasy feeling?  I was operating under the information that you never want to have sex again.

 

So, Yes, take her at her word but don't ignore the feeling you get along the way.  They are suggesting to you that there is an opportunity for clarity in you or your partner's thinking.

 

The relationship operating parameters can and do change along the way.  Sometimes we forget to have the conversation that exposes these changes.

[Mountain House]

9 minutes ago, ConfusedCripple said:

I mean if that’s true I’m still screwed no matter what I do. 

I remember that feeling too.  This is getting to kind of be like a way back machine.

 

How are you screwed?  You've spent time and built your ideal future happiness.  Does the situation fit or not?  Every sexual person that comes to this site is faced with an absolute - there is no solution that is pain free.*  To move forward towards your happiness you'll (we'll) have to confront a painful hard choice.  You will have to do something you don't want to do, that's how you got here.

 

Once you make that choice and act on it you will feel better/happier.

 

* - This is also true for the ace-spectrum people that come here dealing with the same problem from the other side.  They do show up every now and then.

[Mountain House]

13 minutes ago, ConfusedCripple said:

but she would never in a million years tell me if she wanted to break up.

You are mind-readering.

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1 hour ago, Mountain House said:

Actually, we're not but I do see the disconnect.

 

Take her word for it without excluding your words.  She says that she doesn't want sex ever again.  You believe and proceed with this knowledge.  She comes to you and says she want to have sex.  Now you feel something is amiss.  Time to speak up:

I feel uncomfortable with this new bit of information.  Could you confirm that this is something congruent with your true self to help me overcome the uneasy feeling?  I was operating under the information that you never want to have sex again.

 

So, Yes, take her at her word but don't ignore the feeling you get along the way.  They are suggesting to you that there is an opportunity for clarity in you or your partner's thinking.

 

The relationship operating parameters can and do change along the way.  Sometimes we forget to have the conversation that exposes these changes.

Right but I’ve tried this and she will still not tell me how she really feels and then what am I supposed to do?

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55 minutes ago, Mountain House said:

I remember that feeling too.  This is getting to kind of be like a way back machine.

 

How are you screwed?  You've spent time and built your ideal future happiness.  Does the situation fit or not?  Every sexual person that comes to this site is faced with an absolute - there is no solution that is pain free.*  To move forward towards your happiness you'll (we'll) have to confront a painful hard choice.  You will have to do something you don't want to do, that's how you got here.

 

Once you make that choice and act on it you will feel better/happier.

 

* - This is also true for the ace-spectrum people that come here dealing with the same problem from the other side.  They do show up every now and then.

I’m screwed because there is no happiness? Because either I’ll be trapped in a miserable relationship by circumstance (not being able to get support/housing elsewhere), she’ll get sick of me and leave and I will die because I am physically unable to care for myself, or I’ll end up in an assisted care home, alone, with no friends or family, unable to leave the house to even try to meet somebody, hoping no insurance or anything falls through because if that happens I’ll be homeless and die on the street. There is no better. There is no happier. I’m either dead or a miserable lonely cripple. 

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57 minutes ago, Mountain House said:

You are mind-readering.

How many times do I have to observe a pattern before it’s not “mind-readering?” 

[Sarah-Sylvia]

2 minutes ago, ConfusedCripple said:

How many times do I have to observe a pattern before it’s not “mind-readering?” 

I think it can take time and to keep talking in a way that's supportive. Not making assumptions, because think about it, if you assume that she doesn't want to be with you or whatever else, isn't that the same as assuming the other way? If you dont know then you don't know. But if communication can get better eventually that should help.

[Mountain House]

3 minutes ago, ConfusedCripple said:

she will still not tell me how she really feels

This is also mind-readering.  You can't know this unless you mean she is being avoidant.

 

4 minutes ago, ConfusedCripple said:

Right but I’ve tried this and she will still not tell me how she really feels and then what am I supposed to do?

So, the basics are:

 

I am feeling _______.  Would you be able to ________ so that I can __________?

 

The answer is either "Yes" or anything else which means no.  What you do with a no answer is up to you.

[Mountain House]

6 minutes ago, ConfusedCripple said:

How many times do I have to observe a pattern before it’s not “mind-readering?” 

You aren't describing a pattern, you are telling me what she is thinking and I know you can't know what she is thinking.

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2 minutes ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

I think it can take time and to keep talking in a way that's supportive. Not making assumptions, because think about it, if you assume that she doesn't want to be with you or whatever else, isn't that the same as assuming the other way? If you dont know then you don't know. But if communication can get better eventually that should help.

I don’t really feel like I’m assuming anything, more like drawing logical conclusions? I know what kind of person I am and how I’ve hurt her and I’ve seen the effect its had on her and the things she says in her occasional moments of being completely candid, according to everything I understand about the world, no one would want to be around me if they felt they had a choice. This is backed up by the fact that nobody, even my own parents, want anything to do with me after knowing me for a certain amount of time. 

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1 minute ago, Mountain House said:

You aren't describing a pattern, you are telling me what she is thinking and I know you can't know what she is thinking.

Okay, more times than I can count in the past, she has told me something is fine despite me getting an indication one way or another that it is not, even after I have directly asked her, even after I have pressed about whatever the indication was, and didn’t find out until months or even years later when suddenly we are in an argument about something I had no idea was a problem. You’re telling me to believe what she says when I ask her directly despite having the sense at this point to know that she can and will continue to pretend everything is fine and you’re telling me that to presume she’s going to do the same thing she has always done is me just guessing what she’s thinking. 

[Sarah-Sylvia]

2 minutes ago, ConfusedCripple said:

I don’t really feel like I’m assuming anything, more like drawing logical conclusions? I know what kind of person I am and how I’ve hurt her and I’ve seen the effect its had on her and the things she says in her occasional moments of being completely candid, according to everything I understand about the world, no one would want to be around me if they felt they had a choice. This is backed up by the fact that nobody, even my own parents, want anything to do with me after knowing me for a certain amount of time. 

They feel like leaps, not just drawing conclusions. I still can't know how she really feels, but it's hard for me to believe that the way she reacted and what she said would be the opposite of what she wants. Not saying it can't happen, but she needs to learn to be true to herself too, if that's something she has trouble with. I don't think it makes sense to decide that you know her true feelings if she doesn't herself. If that makes sense.

 

You have a chance to change as well, just like she does.

This to me feels more and more like having a therapist would be very good.

[Sarah-Sylvia]

1 minute ago, ConfusedCripple said:

Okay, more times than I can count in the past, she has told me something is fine despite me getting an indication one way or another that it is not, even after I have directly asked her, even after I have pressed about whatever the indication was, and didn’t find out until months or even years later when suddenly we are in an argument about something I had no idea was a problem. You’re telling me to believe what she says when I ask her directly despite having the sense at this point to know that she can and will continue to pretend everything is fine and you’re telling me that to presume she’s going to do the same thing she has always done is me just guessing what she’s thinking. 

You don't have to believe her, just maybe don't believe the opposite. Like keeping open. Know what I mean?

Sometimes it can take time. Or you can use what you think to find ways of getting to know more, if it's not see as an dismissing what she thinks of her feelings herself. I know it can be hard to find ways sometimes, but I think it's better than assuming too much.

It's still your life though, so you get to decide what it is you really want yourself. Maybe think about that too (not just what she does).

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2 minutes ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

They feel like leaps, not just drawing conclusions. I still can't know how she really feels, but it's hard for me to believe that the way she reacted and what she said would be the opposite of what she wants. Not saying it can't happen, but she needs to learn to be true to herself too, if that's something she has trouble with. I don't think it makes sense to decide that you know her true feelings if she doesn't herself. If that makes sense.

 

You have a chance to change as well, just like she does.

This to me feels more and more like having a therapist would be very good.

I know, but I don’t know how to go to a therapist when I’m still so traumatized. I’m scared if they make me any worse I’ll lose whatever abilities I have left. 

[Sarah-Sylvia]

Just now, ConfusedCripple said:

I know, but I don’t know how to go to a therapist when I’m still so traumatized. I’m scared if they make me any worse I’ll lose whatever abilities I have left. 

They're supposed to be able to help.
If you can take some of the things that people said here, usually therapists aren't that direct. And if one really doesn't take a good approach and you feel that it's no help, you can choose not to see that therapist. But they usually can be there to listen and have more experience to help others than people on the internet.
(not all therapists are great, but some are.)

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2 minutes ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

They're supposed to be able to help.
If you can take some of the things that people said here, usually therapists aren't that direct. And if one really doesn't take a good approach and you feel that it's no help, you can choose not to see that therapist. But they usually can be there to listen and have more experience to help others than people on the internet.
(not all therapists are great, but some are.)

It’s not directness I’m worried about. I haven’t been able to get a mental health professional to listen or take me seriously. I was literally laughed at to my face the first time I brought up to one that I thought I might have BPD. An evaluator once ignored me and tried to send me to a clinic for children in a different town because, she claimed, there were no therapists at that clinic that were trained in trauma (which 1, was absolutely a lie, and 2, was not even why I was there). I was pressured into treating my PTSD with EMDR and brushed off when I said it was making things worse, not better, and I wasn’t warned about possible effects, like the loss of the ability to cope (yup). Even last time I attempted to get in touch with a therapist, she left a bunch of really long, rambling messages on my phone for three days, each one getting angrier than the last for not calling her back right away (not just my opinion, I showed my sister and gf and they agreed it was weird). I know therapy is supposed to help, but all it seems to do is make me even worse. 

[Sarah-Sylvia]

20 minutes ago, ConfusedCripple said:

It’s not directness I’m worried about. I haven’t been able to get a mental health professional to listen or take me seriously. I was literally laughed at to my face the first time I brought up to one that I thought I might have BPD. An evaluator once ignored me and tried to send me to a clinic for children in a different town because, she claimed, there were no therapists at that clinic that were trained in trauma (which 1, was absolutely a lie, and 2, was not even why I was there). I was pressured into treating my PTSD with EMDR and brushed off when I said it was making things worse, not better, and I wasn’t warned about possible effects, like the loss of the ability to cope (yup). Even last time I attempted to get in touch with a therapist, she left a bunch of really long, rambling messages on my phone for three days, each one getting angrier than the last for not calling her back right away (not just my opinion, I showed my sister and gf and they agreed it was weird). I know therapy is supposed to help, but all it seems to do is make me even worse. 

I dont know why they did that or where it was. But in whatever case someone can only help, like helping you help yourself. If they try to pressure into doing things then they're not really being neutral enough.
Maybe just look for a therapist that can help you sort through feelings at least. It doesn't have to be about complicated disorders, even if they could diagnose with some.
I just hope you can get something that helps one way or another because there's a lot of stuff going on.
Personally I'm my own therapist, because somehow I always know more how to help me than therapists I saw. Unless they just weren't very good to find my blind spots. Because I'm sure I do have blind spots that make it hard for me to help myself on.

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Honestly I’m feeling like I understand even less now than I did before. 😔 

[Sarah-Sylvia]

Just now, ConfusedCripple said:

Honestly I’m feeling like I understand even less now than I did before. 😔 

Sorry if that's distressing. Maybe it's good to reassess things sometimes. I hope you can take your time and see what makes sense.
Remember to be true to yourself, and hopefully promote that she be true to herself too, that you want her to be able to, so that she can be happy. Maybe she's struggling with things too and needs to figure out her feelings too.

[Mountain House]

16 minutes ago, ConfusedCripple said:

Honestly I’m feeling like I understand even less now than I did before. 😔 

Maybe this is a good thing.  Remember, this is a feeling and feelings aren't facts.

What could this feeling you are having mean?  What is it telling you? (Don't answer here - this is your responsibility to untangle)

 

[This post is not supposed to get a response]

[anisotrophic]

This sounds like a trust issue. Trust is arguably the single most fundamental requirement in a healthy interpersonal relationship.

 

If you don’t trust what someone says or does, you’re not required to behave as if you do. You’re not even required to communicate distrust, although I think it’s generally best to do so. You can also strive to explain it (“I think my distrust is due to X”) as a feeling you report, not an accusation nor an invitation to argue with its validity.

 

DBT books & worksheets might help you DIY things yourself, with respect to BPD-like issues with emotional dysregulation. Identity the feeling (e.g. “fear” or “guilt”), check the facts, determine if acting on it is helpful, determine what skills to try to apply (problem solving, opposite action, radical acceptance).

 

You can do retrospective analysis of bad events (“chain analysis”). (I lost my temper badly this morning, I should do this now myself.) Identifying vulnerabilities to emotional responses and reviewing what more skillful behaviors could have occurred, to help reduce the risk of events and problematic behaviors in the future.

 

(PS to add: ok, I did the chain analysis for myself. It’s hard to address “vulnerabilities” sometimes. I assigned myself some “radical acceptance” regarding how others have a pattern / history of behaving. Not related to sex, fwiw.)