The Deadly Choice

[Chiaroscuro]

Okay, I've been talking privately about this with some of the other sexuals in Aven, and I'd like to take it public. In a nutshell, the choice we sexual partners have to make is: do we divorce, or do we become celibate? I've struggled against making that choice, since both of them feel unbearable. Is there truly no other way?

The fundamental fact of my life is that I love Sunset and I love my kids and I love my marriage. I don't want to threaten all of that good stuff. At the same time, becoming celibate is difficult for me to accept. For practical purposes, I've been celibate for years now, but the idea of making it official is a step I've always been hesitant to make.

Sunset and I reached an agreement recently that I would experiment with going outside of our marriage to find someone with whom to share a physical relationship. That does introduce a certain amount of threat to the marriage, but becoming asexual was a big threat to our marriage to begin with (it introduced The Deadly Choice).

So, Platy and I were talking about this and she wrote:

It really is hard to be in a marriage without sex, but I stay with him because he is an amazing man, I love him very much. The thing I think about alot is if I feel this way now, only after 3 years of marriage, how am I going to feel after 20, in the same situation, with the same problems. I don't ask for sex as much as I used to, probably shouldnt ask for it at all, but I still do. I constantly yearn for that intimacy, the touch of him. We barely even kiss anymore. I am only 27 years old, in the prime of my life.... still the same question -what to do........ Anyways, I'm ranting....

You said your wife has given you the blessing to go outside the marraige if the right person is around.. that is very understanding of her, very kind. Its hard because if it was me that was asexual, I dont know if I could do the same honestly, because of what you mentioned, what if it was to spiral out of control, then where would you go from there... how do you seperate the love of a person to just sex... I dont know if they can be seperated so much, for me anyways, I want to have sex with the person I'm in love with ( although at this point my thoughts may change!!!) LOL..... Hope you find someone in the same boat too, and tell your wife she is an amazing woman for allowing you to do it, it must be hard for her.....

My response:

Well, that's the thing. Of course it's unfair of you to demand sex from your husband if he finds it distasteful, right? That would feel awful... like rape. But it's equally unfair of him to demand that you become asexual: to never feel desire, or a loving touch again. It is a trap. He can live according to his nature and be honorable in the eyes of society. You don't have that option.

So what are your thoughts? Sexual and asexual alike. I will become celibate before I leave our marriage. I've made that decision. But how much can Sunset be expected to bear before she decides we're no longer in a marriage, and leaves herself? It's the gray area between the two Deadly Choices that we're operating in here... Or is it a fantasy that such a gray area even exists?

-Chiaroscuro

[Squid]

Hmm. For me, I compromise sexually (so maybe I'm not the best perspective here?). The line I draw is at demands for sex.

See, sex doesn't matter to me. I'll do sexual things to please my partner. I'll try to be understanding that he enjoys this and wants this, but if he imposes it on me... if he says it's not fair or a real relationship without sex then that's where things spiral out of control.

I've tried, in the past, encouraging my boyfriends to go elsewhere for their sexual desires. They have always refused, and one of them made it my fault then that he was getting no sex. (I wasn't willing to compromise when he was demanding it. Instead of being neutrally uninterested, I was plain put off). But for me, since sex didn't matter, it didn't matter if he had sex with someone else. That wasn't a part of any of my ideas of what a relationship should be, and so it didn't strike me as a threat to my relationship.

I saw it like a peanut allergy -- if I'm allergic to peanuts, I would expect my partner to refrain from eating them in front of me. On the other hand, I wouldn't really mind if he went out with his friends and ate peanuts there. I might even encourage him to make time to go out with his friends and eat peanuts if peanuts were his favorite food!

I know that not all asexuals feel the way I do. From what I've read here on AVEN, most would be unable to allow their partners to seek intimacy elsewhere. I don't know how your wife feels about it. But that's my perspective.

I somehow feel like it won't help you much or that you've heard it before but ... well, I hope it did help. Good luck to both you and Sunset.

[Chiaroscuro]

I know that not all asexuals feel the way I do. From what I've read here on AVEN, most would be unable to allow their partners to seek intimacy elsewhere. I don't know how your wife feels about it. But that's my perspective.

Thanks for your thoughts, Squid. Your philosophy makes sense to me, but Sunset (along with 99% of the rest of the world, apparently), doesn't share it. She believes that my seeing someone else will cause feelings of jealousy to kick in and break the marriage. So from her perspective, I'm free to go outside the marriage. But if I do, then I'm essentially calling for a divorce and that's the end of that. It's puzzling why sex with someone else threatens someone to whom sex means nothing, but all of this is hard to discuss rationally.

Sunset thinks sex for me is about ego and fantasy... that I want someone to desire me in some grandiose way... to put me up on a pedestal. That's not true, but she can't "feel" that it's not true, and feelings are what are in play with all of this.

-Chiaroscuro

[M51]

I kind of agree with squid. In my personal experience I have tried to compromise. Although my relationships have been short for other reasons (probably because I am impossible!! ;)) I have been able to successfully compromise for a time when there is no DEMAND. I believe that it was my husband's demands for sex that made things impossible between us.

Now, by demand I do not just mean he said, "I demand sex". I am also talking about the unspoken reactions. He would pout, throw tantrums, become angry, go to extremes ("You will NEVER have sex with me, will you?!" even if I had compromised just the day before), cancel other social engagements, refuse to talk to me, etc. In fact, I don't think he ever said "I demand sex now". It was the unbearable emotional punishment if I refused that made things rough. Also he would belittle me and tell me I was abnormal, and tell me that if I loved him I would try to fix myself, that he was justified in needing sex and I was cruel and unjustified and unnatural and sick in "withholding it"... So I guess I should say it was the psychological and emotional pressure that I interpret as him being sexually demanding. I guess I should say that it is putting conditions on sexual compliance that made it impossible for me to compromise.

BUT! That is a digression because that is not what you are asking, and I don't think you do those things.

First, I really admire you for your strength and your commitment to sunset.

Second, I have concluded that if I ever fall in love with a sexual I will offer the extramarital sex option to him, because my capacity to compromise seems to be shrinking every day. So I am very curious to see if this works out for you, if you try it.

For me, I believe that sex is not important, therefore...sex is not important. I have always been shocked at the sudden cessation of 5, 10, 15 years of a marriage simply because one party made a mistake. It kills me when a woman assumes that a single affair is justification to immediately break up a family and prevent a father from seeing his kids. I know it happens the other way around too but I just see the males having affairs more often. Plus with males it is more often a spurious moment of biological weakness, whereas (in my experience) when a woman cheats there are much deeper problems in the relationship to start with. But like I said, 5,10,15 years of building a life together GONE just like that because one party was confused or hurting or something? Yikes. Seems kind of extreme. But our society agrees that one sexual mistake is worth trashing 15 years of commitment. I don't get it. I never have.

I think a lot of the hurt of extramarital sex has to do with the dishonesty involved. Now that I can understand. I can understand ending a marriage of 12 years or whatever if you feel betrayed and simply cannot trust the person anymore. So how that applies to this particular situation is that I think that as long as there is no dishonesty I would be okay with the sex part. I suspect my partner would have to almost overdo the honesty in the beginning, going out of his way to tell me exact details and satisfy my every gruesome curiosity. Then, as it becomes more routine and the scariness of it wears off, he could just say, okay, I'm going to go have sex tonight, see you around ten...and I would be okay with that. But that first time I am going to want to know everything about his partner, everything about the experience, so I can personally gauge whether this was just friendly sex or if my committed lifelong partnership is at real risk. I would also need A LOT of assurance that he is still committed to me. Many "I love you's" and "I am so excited about our future" and similar expressions of commitment would be needed. I think like many things it might be how you handle it in the very beginning that sets the tone for the rest of the experiment. Although in the future a consistent sex partner for my life partner might be reasonable option, I think the first time it needs to be someone my partner never talks to again, to assure me that there is no deeper emotional involvement. And take some time between the first few sex partners so we can reassess and rebuild our emotional commitment thoroughly. I suspect that the first few experiments will be very empty and unfulfilling for my hypothetical life partner because he will really have to keep it all business and from what I gather all-business sex is not going to fulfill your needs any more than just masturbating. But it is important to keep it all business until both of you are comfortable with the idea. Like I said, once we get used to the idea I might not mind my partner having a consistent sexual partner. It would actually be better because less risk of STD's. But the emotional hurdles in the beginning will be huge, so they must be given priority.

I realize there is a risk that extramarital sex will lead you to become emotionally invested in another person, and that will threaten your marriage. But it is the emotional investment I would be worried about, not the sex itself. It is important to distinguish between the two. I think (though I have never tried it) that if it truly remained just sex, I would have no problem with it. I am seeking a commitment to life partnership, not ownership of my partner's body.

As a POSSIBLE compromising asexual, I will say that any extramarital sex will reduce my partner's chances of having sex with me again to zilch. It is just too scary for me with STDs and all that. If it ever progressed to the consistent sex partner as I mentioned above, and after a safe period of time to make sure that neither my life partner nor his sex partner had an STD, I might consent to occasional - very occasional compromise. But that would involve trusting not just my partner but also his sex partner, so it could only happen in ideal circumstances.

So, in the recent habit of having no structure to my long posts, those are my disjointed thoughts on the subject. I know I am very different from sunset but perhaps that will give you some things to think about.

And sunset, you are very brave and loving and unselfish to consider this.

I really hope it works for you. I hope if you try it and it doesn't work that you can set it aside as a failed experiment and move onto new attempts to maintain your relationship, and not blame each other (sunset not blame Chiaro for doing it and Chiaro not blaming sunset for not being able to handle it, or for giving him permission and then taking it back)

[Kallan]

Knowing some of sunsets background I understand why she finds it more difficult to compromise. If she's giving you her blessings to go outside the marriage then I would take it. Just be careful who you choose to have sex with. I've known several people who had 'sex buddies' where emotional intimacy was never a part of it, if you could find someone like that it would seem to fit perfectly into your life.

[Busrider]

I like happy people more than fullfilled laws. I would chose a one way open relationship right from the spot. - A average lady demands more than I could give, so why not share her?

[vikingo]

... I constantly yearn for that intimacy, the touch of him. We barely even kiss anymore. I am only 27 years old, in the prime of my life ...

If you have tried but failed to find a solution which is satisfactory to both of I think breaking up is the option to consider. The earlier minds are made up the better.

... blessing to go outside the marraige if the right person is around.. that is very understanding of her, very kind. Its hard because if it was me that was asexual, I dont know if I could do the same honestly ...

To a "theoretically true" asexual this sacrifice is probably not that big as long as we are discussing the "clinical act". I don't think that I personally would accept such an arrangement. Because to most people the act is not clinical. I stay out of deep relationships because I have seen how much asexuality hurts. And I dont want to hurt people.

... Or is it a fantasy that such a gray area even exists? ...

I hope so.

[Chiaroscuro]

I appreciate your thoughts, guys. Sunset and I had a talk about this today, and she can't do it. So we're back to "no gray area" again... just the two bad choices.

M51:

First, I really admire you for your strength and your commitment to sunset.

Thank you, but I don't feel strong, I feel completely weak and powerless. I cannot sacrifice my kids for my own "selfish" interests, but it's that or celibacy. Or cheating, which I also cannot do. I feel completely trapped. No choice leads to what I feel would be a true, real, happy life.

-Chiaroscuroisfeelingfrustrated

[silvergirl]

Have you tried some form of marriage counselling? But that aside, you are making a lot of major assumptions. One is that your partner could never be happy with someone else. Another is that you could never be happy with someone else. And a third is that the kids must be better off if you stay together. Current thinking is that children are actually not better off in families where there is significant conflict (even if it is covert, as in incompatibility and unmet needs). Perhaps you are sacrificing your children, and you and your partners future happiness to loyalty. Sometimes it's better to admit to a mistake and do something positive to correct it rather than stick with a difficult and probably deteriorating situation that no one will benefit from in the end. Professional help is certainly needed here. One of the hardest things to admit is that we need outside help.

[Chiaroscuro]

Hi Silvergirl,

Sunset and I have talked at length about marriage counseling. We may go that route, we're both in individual counseling at the moment.

you are making a lot of major assumptions. One is that your partner could never be happy with someone else. Another is that you could never be happy with someone else.

I'm actually assuming no such thing. I'm sure I could be happy with someone else, and Sunset isn't interested in being with anyone else. That's not the problem for me. I love Sunset, despite our lack of physical connection. We laugh together. We work together. We trust one another. Those feelings might change, but neither of us is at that point right now.

And a third is that the kids must be better off if you stay together. Current thinking is that children are actually not better off in families where there is significant conflict (even if it is covert, as in incompatibility and unmet needs).

I understand this line of thinking. Sunset came from a home in which there was a lot of strife and acrimony (even abuse). She's said many times that she wished her parents had broken up. My childhood home was stable and basically happy. Divorce would have been a major blow if it had happened to me as a child.

Our family is more like mine than Sunset's. She and I compliment each other in important ways, and we're basically happy. Neither of us are chronically depressed, or lash out at one another in ways that would hurt the kids. We don't undermine each other. That's the "all the good stuff" I spoke of earlier. It may have to be broken up at some point, but I don't think it will benefit anyone at the moment (except, perhaps, Sunset, I can't speak for her).

If I thought our marriage was hurting the kids, I would leave in a heartbeat. It wouldn't be a conflict. Yes, it may come to that. But i don't resent Sunset... I'm here at Aven trying to understand her. My frustration comes from the bind, and is directed at my feeling of helplessness. At the absence of any healthy way forward.

-Chiaroscuro

[silvergirl]

Polyamorous relationships can survive, and survive well. If you can make that work then it might be best for everyone. I have been on a forum with a couple of poly people and they appeared to be in good relationships. Although I've never looked at this one, a forum they often recommend for interested people is the usenet group alt.polyamory You might like to check it out. Being poly does imply developing a strong emotional relationship with another person, but doesn't imply that that diminishes the one you've already got. Monogamy doesn't work for everyone.

[Platy79]

I feel completely trapped. No choice leads to what I feel would be a true, real, happy life.

This sentence really threw me for a loop.... because in life I always beleived that no matter what, happiness is what truly matters. And feeling trapped is not happiness. But sadly its my reality as well. :roll: But you are right, no path does seem like the road to happiness... for either partner. You are lucky that Sunset will discuss this topic with you, my husband was the one to point this site out, but then he bailed on the subject shortly after, I try to discuss, but he just shuts down, which in turn leaves my head spinning.... then I rant here, looking for someone to give me answers.... which of course, only I have the answers, only I'm not sure what they are yet......

[silvergirl]

On a forum I was on that discussed various sexuality issues the issue of a significant difference in a couple's sex drives came up time and time again. And time and time again, after thrashing it out, the conclusion was that there is no satisfactory solution, especially for the HDP (High Desire Partner).

Having been in that situation myself (despite being asexual I did have a significant drive, whist my partner who was sexual had a very low drive) you have my utmost sympathy. At the moment, at age 56, my drive has almost disappeared. I was divorced many years ago however, although the precipitating circumstance weren't directly related to mismatched sex drive.

[WendyO]

I have briefly talked to Chia about my 23yr marriage to my asexual husband. Just know out there that it is not always the woman who is the asexual.

My husband is good to me, provides for myself and our children. I work part time to keep me occupied and not focus constantly why my husband is not sexually interested in me.

I see a few post of young marriags. The sex does not get more frequent. I occationally get a little peck on the lips but never a squeeze or a flirty pinch.

Non of our friends in our social circle would ever expect that the Boss doesnt like sex.

My marriage is worth staying in even if there is no touching. The other parts of our marriage fun and we like each other but more like roomates instead of husband and wife. I likely would never cheat on my husband.

WendyO

[Platy79]

see a few post of young marriags. The sex does not get more frequent. I occationally get a little peck on the lips but never a squeeze or a flirty pinch.

This is what scares me.... I could probably over time get over my own needs and be ok with no intimate contact, but I'll never be happy, truly happy. I do love my husband and we do have fun together, but your right, feels like having a roomate.

[Chiaroscuro]

Silvergirl, thanks for the polyamory links. That's not anything I was aware of (like asexuality, have I been living in a shoebox all my life?). I look forward to exploring that as an option. Trying to find the right solution is so difficult and uncertain. Speaking with my wife about this stirs up all sorts of feelings in both of us... we've been together for sixteen years. That's not something that either of us can easily throw away. I remember when we set up house together, boxes up to the ceiling, she had to drive me to the emergency room when my asthma overwhelmed me (dusty boxes). Our daughter was born in that house. I remember lying in the bed upstairs with her, talking about our future. I still have a horse chestnut in my jacket pocket from the tree out front.

The idea of just discarding all of that. It makes us both feel terrible. We've decided to back away from the subject for a while. We'll return to it when emotions have settled down. Everything feels raw right now. What a strange species of animal we are.

-Chiaroscuro

[WendyO]

I know that I dont want to throw away the past 23yrs, our children would be devistated if we broke up. Is being celibate my destiny for my entire life, is this my life plan? Gee, think Ill just live for today and appreciated the other things about my husband for now.

[atrophia]

I saw it like a peanut allergy -- if I'm allergic to peanuts, I would expect my partner to refrain from eating them in front of me. On the other hand, I wouldn't really mind if he went out with his friends and ate peanuts there. I might even encourage him to make time to go out with his friends and eat peanuts if peanuts were his favorite food!

I think this is an absolutely awesome way to look at it. I would be this way too if I was asexual. I think it's awesome when love can transcend sex like this, and I don't mean just this high ideal of a sexual person giving up their sexuality for the love of their asexual partner, but the asexual partner realizing that sex is important and encouraging the sexual partner to have it with others to fulfill that need, all the while remaining in a loving relationship with the asexual. I think it's possible to remain emotionally monogamous in a situation like this, but I also think that being poly would make the dichotomy of asexual/sexual easier to bear. For instance, if I was in love with a girl who didn't like sex, it wouldn't be as hard to bear if I had another girl that I was in love with who was into sex. However, my significant other and I are not poly (at least not yet and not for the forseeable future), so just having the physical release from someone would be enough (assuming he was asexual, which he is not), even if I didn't love them. Not that this is really an issue at the moment since my sex drive is nonexistent after being on hormonal birth control for 7 years.

Forgive me, but I don't entirely understand the perspective of asexuals who would not be comfortable with this situation. I mean, you don't just want to not have sex with them, but you don't want to have sex with anybody, correct? Then, assuming that you do not have sex with them, you are not exposing yourself to diseases by allowing them to fulfill their sexual needs elsewhere; and I just don't understand why it would feel like a betrayal to you to have them fulfill these needs elsewhere, needs that you do not share, and are unwilling or unable to satisfy for them yourself. I don't see it as being very loving to the other person to deny them sexual expression if they are not forcing or coercing it from you. I haven't meant to offend anybody by this post, but I just don't understand this.

To put this post in perspective, I consider myself a VERY sexual person who is not experiencing any sexual feelings at the moment, and I do not consider it a problem or offensive if my partner wants to have sex with other ladies, as long as he is honest and tells me about it; because even though I'm currently not experiencing these feelings, I know what they feel like. I do have sex with him because I enjoy the intimacy it creates, and I am still capable of orgasm, just unable to become physically aroused; so what we are is basically just not 100% monogamous physically, and that is okay with me.

[Squid]

As the one who wouldn't mind my partner going out of the relationship for sex, maybe I can explain why other asexuals don't feel comfortable with the idea.

Sex and romance are intrinsically intertwined. Sex is very intimate. Even though I wouldn't find it intimate in a romantic sense, the idea that two people are comfortable enough with each other to have sex, or even desire sex shows a level of intimacy, and it is one that I do personally deeply appreciate. And I understand from society's pressures that you're only supposed to have sex -- this incredibly intimate act -- with only the person you're in a relationship with (unless you're out of a relationship, in which case things are different)

Even while encouraging partners to go elsewhere, I was well aware that it could lead to feelings between him and that third person. It happens sometimes, and while I would trust my partner to the utmost, emotions aren't always predictable and are difficult to control.

So for someone to have this intimate act, to desire to be physically close/in someone else and possibly run the risk of developing romantic feelings... can feel very rejecting to the person the sexer is currently actually dating.

I hope that both explained it and adequately captured those that would not want their partners seeking sex outside the relationship's feelings.

[ghosts]

Chiaroscuro, I'm surprised (although I think it's pretty cool!) that you might look into polyamory- I thought you were against going elsewhere for a sexual relationship?

Anyway- I definitely believe there's other solutions, since I'm currently using one of those other solutions. I don't believe it's just compromise vs. "it's over". While I don't call myself polyamorous, that's sort of the idea behind how I structure my relationships. I don't mind if any sexual person who I'm emotionally or physically intimate with has an intimate relationship (whether emotionally, physically, sexually, etc.) besides ours. Takes the pressure off of me, and it definitely *does not* diminish our own relationship. Similarly, I have multiple close/intimate relationships. Since everyone has different desires & needs, to me, this way of structuring relationships works best because we're not just depending on one person to fulfill these desires & needs.

[funaladanaly]

Well, that's the thing. Of course it's unfair of you to demand sex from your husband if he finds it distasteful, right? That would feel awful... like rape. But it's equally unfair of him to demand that you become asexual: to never feel desire, or a loving touch again.

You're absolutely right. This is the same thing I am coming across. It'll always be too much for me, and not enough for him. It isn't fair for him to want to sleep with me if I dont' want to sleep with him, but on the same token, it isn't right for me to demand celibacy.

Therefore, I am on the works of getting out of this relationship. I'm surprised that this didn't come up earlier, before you were married. Since you're married with kids, its going to make divorce so much more difficult. Also, open relationships have been known to cause problems. That is awesome of your wife to offer. I told my bf that I didn't mind if he did just to relieve himself (and stop talking to me about sex all the time!). But, he said that he wasn't okay with open relationships and wouldn't do it. Plus he said that he felt I would resent it inwardly. Perhaps he is right, not sure. I think a bit of me would be relieved.

Please let us know how to opt to resolve it. I think though that if someone is going to have to make the sacrifice, it'll end up being you. After all, its her body that is in question. Be prepared for that in your decision making. good luck.

[Chiaroscuro]

Ms. Ghosts: I admit it, I'm all over the map on this issue. One day I decide one thing, the next day another. I'm basically open to any solution that has even a ghost of a chance of working, (pun intended). Right now there is no decision. Sunset and I had a very emotional discussion a few days ago, after which everything felt raw and we've just been kind of nurturing one another and not talking about it while we regroup. I'm very encouraged by your and Silver's experiences with polyamory. I need to learn more.

Ms. Fun: Yes, The Deadly Choice™ comes down to me sacrificing myself, or me leaving the marriage. Neither one holds much appeal, so I'm thrashing around looking for any other alternative that might work. When you say that your boyfriend sleeping with someone else might cause you to feel resentment, but might also cause relief... that's what I see Sunset wrestling with. She feels a bit of both. Twice now she's said "you SHOULD see someone else", but when it's become a real possibility, she's recoiled. Partly out of pride ("I won't live in this house while you're out sleeping with another woman"), and partly because she thinks that, rather than go through the contortions of having a sex buddy outside of the marriage, I should just divorce and see other people openly. It would be cleaner, we'd be friends, etc...

But she recoils from the idea of divorce too. It's a mess. I guess ultimately I'll probably get a mistress, and see what happens. Or maybe not :roll:

-Chiaroscuro

[ghosts]

Ms. Ghosts: I admit it, I'm all over the map on this issue. One day I decide one thing, the next day another. I'm basically open to any solution that has even a ghost of a chance of working, (pun intended). Right now there is no decision. Sunset and I had a very emotional discussion a few days ago, after which everything felt raw and we've just been kind of nurturing one another and not talking about it while we regroup. I'm very encouraged by your and Silver's experiences with polyamory. I need to learn more.

Cool! I can definitely understand the being all over the map thing, since it's sort of a completely different mode of thinking that you're getting into- something that's not discussed in our society for the most part. If you're sort of interested in what I was talking about- you might want to check out some of AVENguy's podcasts as well. He talks about what he calls community-based intimacy a lot, and perhaps that might help you out.

I wish you the best of luck with whatever course you decide to take. :)

[knotjustme]

Well, that's the thing. Of course it's unfair of you to demand sex from your husband if he finds it distasteful, right? That would feel awful... like rape. But it's equally unfair of him to demand that you become asexual: to never feel desire, or a loving touch again.

But, I thought he said that it was okay to go outside of the relationship to fulfill that desire. I don't find that unfair at all, that is far from "demanding that you become asexual." I think it would be highly unfair if he didn't give his blessing to go elsewhere to have that need fulfilled. In this case, I have to say take him up on it. Maybe I'm being insensitive, but I think throwing away a marriage over an issue that can be resolved fairly easily would be foolhardy. I think it would be highly unfair for an asexual to demand that their sexual partner could not seek physical pleasure elsewhere, but refuse to pleasure them, but this isn't the case in this situation, so I'm a bit confused as to why there is this dilemma. Did you not know what to expect in a relationship with an asexual? Again, not trying to be insensitive, but you must have had an idea of what to expect in regard to entering a relationship with an asexual (or person with a low libido period--unless you found out after the fact). In all sincerity, good luck.

[Chiaroscuro]

But, I thought he said that it was okay to go outside of the relationship to fulfill that desire. I don't find that unfair at all, that is far from "demanding that you become asexual." I think it would be highly unfair if he didn't give his blessing to go elsewhere to have that need fulfilled. In this case, I have to say take him up on it.

Welcome, Knot! First of all, I'm the "he", and my wife is the "she" (assuming you're talking about me, I'm not altogether sure :)). Second of all, my wife was not asexual when we got married. Third of all, though we've talked about my going outside the marriage, every time I say "okay, there's someone interested", she realizes that she's not okay with it at all... ie: if I see someone else, the marriage is essentially over, so why not make it official.

What it boils down to for the sexual partner, assuming going outside the relationship is off-limits, is celibacy or divorce.

-Chiaroscuro

[ghosts]

I also think that many people have entered relationships without really understanding their partner's asexuality- they might not have had a name for it, or understand how they felt.

[silvergirl]

This issue is very complex. Many sexual people (those who are sexually attracted to other people) actually have low libido, or their libido declines markedly as they grow older. A person who is sexy and sexual at age 20 may have no interest in sex at 40 or 50. Also, it's not unheard of for someone to 'put out' in order to snare a spouse, after which they don't need to. Not to mention those who 'wait till marriage' only to discover their incompatibility too late.

Another issue is 'going outside'. In many countries prostitution is legal. Prostitutes are often experts at making their customers feel good about themselves. A neighbour of mine is a prostitute and she enjoys her work and takes pride in giving her customers a good experience. Perhaps instead of the risk of becoming emotionally attached to a lover (which is probably what low libido partners fear) this would be the best solution for those who can afford it and in places where it is legal. After all, how much would you spend on a holiday, or a new car, or something else that meets needs that are probably less important than sex is for many people.

[Chiaroscuro]

Silver, you're an amazing person! And you're right of course. The idea of having professional "other women" to help folks in my position makes all the sense in the world. We have therapists, massage-ists, dieticians, yoga teachers... why not this too? With a proper doctor's prescription, of course.

And also, to update our situation: I visited a polyamory bulletin board and presented my dilemma. The response was almost universally negative, which I found surprising. We were advised to get lots of therapy, for Sunset to heal herself, and for us to divorce (not necessarily in that order). Of course it may be that group's outlook, but the unanimity of the response made me think hard about what "going outside" might bring. It's obviously a complex issue, for all of the reasons discussed here. And, talking more with Sunset, it's become clear to me that she's never going to be able to actually go through with me seeing someone else. So we're back the the Deadly Choice ©.

And my head is spinning.

-Chiaroscuro

[silvergirl]

I guess you need to ask yourelf if your wife actually cares about you, and whether you are prepared to stay in a one-way relationship if the answer is no. Many people are in relationships to be loved, not because they love.

[feef]

Just popping in to say thank you squid for the very very good peanut analogy. It's hard concept to grasp, but you explained it perfectly.

Chiaroscuro - That's a real crunch :( every useful thing I could say had been said already, after all, this is one of the best forums on the net. You've narrowed it down to 2, but there is always the 3rd - Leaving it be, making a desicion later when you're even more crunched. It's probably better to work towards a conclusion though.