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:( I HATE gynos..


Androgyny

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So, whenever it comes to be that time of the month, I have HORRIBLE cramping problems. I'm usually sick and in immense amonts of pain for the frist day, sometimes the second day too. Its hell. Last August I turned 18, bu I spent my entire birthday in my room feeling like I was gonna die because i had gotten my period that day.

My parents sent me the the gyn to be examined but..it didnt go very well. I refused the examination, and the doctor wasn't too sympathetic about that. Its not just SEX, any form of vaginal penetration for me is a complete nightmare. However, my doctor perscribed me some birth control to regulate my period, saying it should calm down the cramping. And it did..I went off to college and had no cramping problems. It was wonderful. Then a few days ago I had to go back to the gyn to get my birth control re-prescribed, because I'm running out. So I went in to go see the doctor, and I told her I didnt want to have the physical examination done, and she tried to explain to me HOW it went(which I REALLY didnt want to hear..), and that I HAD to have it done, and WHY, and I kept telling her I didnt want to have it done, and she got really pissy with me, kind of forceful and rude, and in the end when I refused to be examined she refused to represcribe my pills. Now, I KNOW I NEED to have an examination done, I know its vital especially when taking birth control, because I dont know how it could be effecting me down there. But its really upsetting to me that I have to go through hell of cramps and pain and sickness again when my pills run out just because I dont want this examination done. It like, either rape with metal instruments or excruciating pain once a month.

Also, another thing that upsets me is how rude these doctors get when I tell them I dont want the examination. (The first time I actually tried to go through with it but it didnt work, I freaked out). Its like they have no sympathy for people who dont want tihngs going up their va-jay-jay. When the 2nd doctor of mine walked out of the room we were in for a few minutes, I heard her whispering to the other doctors about how strange I was because I was 18 and had never had an examination and didnt want one. Its just all really offending. Its like they think they can be rude to me just because I'm not "normal" like them. Maybe thats not the case, but its how I feel.

ugh...

Theres probably not much advice anyone can give on this because 'just get the examintion done' REALLY isnt an option here.. but I just needed to rant about it..

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Hate to say it, but medical examinations are just something you have to do when you go to the doctor sometimes. They're not supposed to be enjoyable for anyone. Granted I don't have a vagina, but I'm definitely not going to be looking forward to my first prostate exam with any great gusto. I'll do it, however, because otherwise I'm not going to get much sympathy when I die of prostate cancer.

It sounds like this doctor had a bit of an attitude problem, but I might have made the same decision-- handing out prescriptions to people who don't do the requisite exams isn't really a good idea, even if it is birth control. They weren't attacking your sexual identity or anything, just enforcing good medical practice.

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Well your going to have to get the exam - try talking to the doc before hand to see if you can do things to make you more comfortable like keeping your shirt on

when i had to go, I found ways to delay the time between exams a bit longer.

For example when they right you the perscription ask if they can give you any free samples - typically i was given 3 -5 month's supply when I asked that. so then you have your years perscription plus 3 months before you need to go back.

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Well your going to have to get the exam - try talking to the doc before hand to see if you can do things to make you more comfortable like keeping your shirt on

when i had to go, I found ways to delay the time between exams a bit longer.

For example when they right you the perscription ask if they can give you any free samples - typically i was given 3 -5 month's supply when I asked that. so then you have your years perscription plus 3 months before you need to go back.

Keeping my shirt on doesnt change the fact that someone is down there trying to stick things up me. The thought is unbearble. Completely sick. Delaying time doesnt change the fact that yore getting it done either. I refuse to partake in any form of vaingal penetration. I clearly dont see it the same as you. Whats something you REALLY wouldnt want done to your body? Its kinda like that, probably worse.

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I'm with ya girl. I'm 24, never had an exam, never will step foot NEAR a gyno's office. I frankly would rather have cancer than have a exam.

And i'm with ya on the times of the month too...having hemophilia sucks when it comes to those...maybe try to find other ways of releaving the cramps? Cut back on caffine at least a week before and during that time. Look up other ways, perhaps you can make the cramps bearable.

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I'm with ya girl. I'm 24, never had an exam, never will step foot NEAR a gyno's office. I frankly would rather have cancer than have a exam.

And i'm with ya on the times of the month too...having hemophilia sucks when it comes to those...maybe try to find other ways of releaving the cramps? Cut back on caffine at least a week before and during that time. Look up other ways, perhaps you can make the cramps bearable.

Thanks. Im glad theres someone else who feels the way I do about those examinations. ugghh..

and yeah, Ive tried a lot. Getting my sleep, I dont drink a lot of caffiene..Ive tried painkiller after painkiller, and the current one I'm taking, Ibeprofrin(sp?) helps a little, bt I still have bad cramps. :(Its some kind of evil karma or something.

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i'm afraid i'm not going to be the sympathetic ear that I'D LIKE to be able to be, but i just can't.

it probably has to do with the fact that i've had to have MANY medical procedures done, and believe me, NONE of them have been done because i wanted to have them done.

i've had cancer. i had to have surgery for that, actually several surgeries. i've had to be nude in front of 10 people at a time all examining me for different things from different points of view, or because they were students - i didn't have the luxury of having tons of money, but i was grateful to get to go to the best hospital in my area, which happened to be a teaching hospital.

cacille, don't say you'd rather have the cancer - you can't possibly know that.

i've also had a cervical dysplasia (the early stages of cervical cancer) and i had to have surgery for that. it was no fun. there were also complications about a week later and had to have some severely uncomfortable and embarrassing one on one gyno time with the surgical resident of the ER until someone could come and fix me.

i'm had to have a colonoscopy - now that's REALLY uncomfortable. having a pap isn't fun, no. but it's not nearly as bad as a colonoscopy.

and yeah, i DO actually see it like you, i don't want ANYONE touching me down there - but i've had to systematically get over it in order to LIVE. that's just the breaks.

i hope you can get some resolution for this within yourself - quite frankly, i'm with your doctor - they can't in good conscience prescribe you a medicine unless they can be certain it's not doing you any kind of harm, and if you refuse the exam, then how can she know?

good luck tho - and God bless.

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I'm with annie on this one... though I haven't had cancer, I'm well aware of what it can do to a person treated or untreated, and you don't want to go there. Yeah, it sucks, and even sexual women don't enjoy it, but it's something that shouldn't be avoided forever. I'm 20 and I've never been to a gyno or had a pelvic or anything of the sort, but I know I'm going to have to eventually. (My doc let me off the hook for the time being because I haven't had sex and I'm young.)

But seriously. Cancer is hideous and the last thing you or anyone should have is a thing like that wreaking havoc through, inevitably, your entire body and destroying your life. And the fact is if you actually did get cancer, your doctors would insist upon probing around and it'd probably be far, far worse than it would've been for a once-a-year-or-so exam. Not to mention the potential for dying a horrible, painful death bit. (Having to have surgery to remove your reproductive organs and follow-up exams would be one of many possibilities.. how's that for uncomfortable?)

Believe me, I'm sympathetic. I sure as hell don't want to get it done and I assume once I absolutely have to it'll be one of those things I absolutely dread. I plan to put it off as long as I can, but once I can't anymore, I'm just going to have to put up with it. I can't insist you do anything, but really, consider the possibilities.. they ain't pretty. :? Regardless of what you choose, I hope you never get anything like that. Hoping the same for myself, actually.

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luvbeingasexual

I KNOW EXACTLY HOW YOU FEEL. I had my first exam at 15 and cried and made a fuss at the doctors and they all wondered why... treated me like a mental patient... well EXCUSE me for being protective of my private space.. because that's just what it is... MY space... I'm on your side... I'm on the pill to help my period too but I go to an endocrinologist not a gynocologist... might I recommend the same for you?

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I can understand your doctors' shock. I guess they don't usually meet with a lot of resistance. :D

But seriously: just go, get it over with! I was afraid of it for a long time too, but when I finally went I found out that it's really not horrible at all. In my case, there were three doctors (two of them male) present (and a nurse) and everybody was smiling and making jokes and it was not uncomfortable at all.

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reptilelover

I understand you completely. I am like Cacille - 24 and never went to the gyno and do not plan on going to one unless I get any “changes” down there (and by changes I mean anything that doesn’t happen regularly/periodically). As far as cancer goes, cervical cancer is mainly caused by HPV virus so if you do not have sex (and no, condom does not protect against HPV), or you do not participate in any other higher risk behaviour, your chances of getting this type of cancer are very low (I’d say somewhere in the range of brain cancer or lung cancer for non-smokers).

Also, it seems only USA is afflicted by all this checkup hysteria. In my country you wouldn’t even get a raised eyebrow if you say you’ve never been (and plan to keep it that way) to the gyno (although going to one is recomended). And despite this attitude, the mortality rate caused by cervical cancer here is not really so different from the one in USA as to be of any importance.

Also I’ve noticed that a lot of people from the USA will for some reason be compelled to point out what is possible to go wrong – even describe it to very gruesome details. As if one can’t be aware of consequences of not going and still choosing not to go. But unlike many who feel compelled to force other people to do something they do not want to do (or feel like it is not necessary to do), I am aware of how the problems “down there” develop, what are causes and possible causes for them, what the chances of developing the problems “down there” are exc. And in knowledge of that I can safely say that with the lifestyle I lead, there is no more reason for me to go to the gyno then it is for me to do regular “x-ray checkup” for the lungs.

My advice to you is this: do not let other people force their decisions on you. Do not trust anyone (yes even doctors) without getting several different opinions on the matter in question. Gather knowledge on why something happens, what chances you have of it happening to you, and what chances are of it happening to you despite going for a checkup. Then, after all this choose an action you can best live with and take responsibility for.

Also I do not know why are everybody so dismissive of mental scars a forced checkup can cause. The girl stated she views shoving of things in her personal regions as a “rape”. Now, I am well aware this analogy is not fair towards rape victims, but forced shoving of things in a person who is clearly unwilling of the said action constitutes rape. And I do not care if it is for the greater good of the said person – if the person is as unwilling as Androgyny seems to be, then it is a rape. Also, the fact that doctors seem unwilling to talk about it or even take her seriously does not help any.

As for the cramp issue; here is a link that already addresses this topic. Check it out, perhaps you’ll find something that may help you:

http://www.asexuality.org/discussion/viewt...15de86a6efdc608

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Bluejeanbabe

I too hated the gyno...but, I like some of you waited too long to go and then when I did, I found out I had cancer...I am 44 now, and cancer free, my only advice or suggestion is...it really sucks to have to go. It really sucks to have to have some "stranger" look at your" va jay jay", it sucks to have to feel like this.....but what would've sucked even more is the thought of leaving my two children in this world without a mother. And I am very strict with my daughter about going...she too hates to be "poked and prodded" but I as a mother do not want to feel the pain of losing a child. Good luck to you, and may you find the strength someday to be seen. Think of the people you would leave behind if heaven forbid there is something wrong. Sometimes being selfish is not a good thing...

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reptilelover
I too hated the gyno...but, I like some of you waited too long to go and then when I did, I found out I had cancer...I am 44 now, and cancer free, my only advice or suggestion is...it really sucks to have to go. It really sucks to have to have some "stranger" look at your" va jay jay", it sucks to have to feel like this.....but what would've sucked even more is the thought of leaving my two children in this world without a mother. And I am very strict with my daughter about going...she too hates to be "poked and prodded" but I as a mother do not want to feel the pain of losing a child. Good luck to you, and may you find the strength someday to be seen. Think of the people you would leave behind if heaven forbid there is something wrong. Sometimes being selfish is not a good thing...

Why is it considered selfish not going to the gyno and “risking” getting a cancer and yet it is not considered selfish regularly not doing an NMR and “risking” getting a brain tumour? :? Of course this is only a valid question if a person does not engage in behaviour that raises the incidence of cervical cancer.

Also, why is it considered selfish when one thinks one’s body is one’s own and not open to “sharing”? :?

In fact, what I personally find selfish is somebody who uses “emotional blackmail” to force somebody into doing something.

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I am a virgin so it is more uncomfortable for me than for most women my age (26) to have a pelvic exam. It is also disgusting. However, the same can be said for trips to the dentist. I have only had a couple of gyn exams, both to get pills due to problems with my period when I was young (fortunately the problems have ended naturally and I am not on the pill anymore).

Dislike of a gyn exam is not unique to us asexuals. Sexual women don't like them either.

My husband has also had some painful moments in the dentist's office. Neither of us have had a colonoscopy yet, but in a couple of decades we both will. Before long I will be getting regular mamograms, something that some women find unpleasant.

My asexual husband has also had a woman doctor check him for testicular cancer and other problems.

These things are not pleasant. But they are necessary. The alternatives, such as cancer found too late. From what I have seen in the case of others with advanced cancer, not only will people be sticking things up every oriface you have, they will be making new ones to stick things in.

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Bluejeanbabe

In fact, what I personally find selfish is somebody who uses “emotional blackmail” to force somebody into doing something.

I am so sorry if you feel I was doing that....I guess I should just keep my opinions to myself....I meant no harm, really! :cry:

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bluejeanbabe,

your opinions are valid, please keep sharing them

reptilelover, your opinions are valid, please keep sharing them

however, i don't feel you were using emotional blackmail, bluejean - i feel you were sharing what you feel is something that happens to be emotionally charged because of the nature of DYING.

reptile, if you don't want to go, that's ok - if androgyny doesn't want to go, THAT is ok

but don't, please don't, discount what everyone else here has to say simply because YOU disagree - we ALL disagree about alot of things, but the purpose of sharing is to let us all say what we feel needs to be said about, frankly, an important topic.

what androgyny eventually does is up to her. that's all there is to it.

but let's please remember (and correct me if i am wrong!) but none of us have medical degrees or M.D. after our nicknames - in that vein, telling someone not to go and do this is dangerous... telling someone to go and do this is dangerous as well i suppose... androgyny, maybe you should contact a few different gynos, females maybe, and discuss with them OPENLY and HONESTLY beforehand exactly how you feel, how the idea of the exam makes you feel, etc, and see what they have to say

if they won't talk about it - maybe not the doc for you! keep looking! i'm sure you can and will eventually find one who will tell you everything about what will happen during an exam, why it is necessary, etc, and then you will just have to make the decision on your own

and maybe look into what was said earlier - see if you can find an endocrinologist to give you the pill - a doctor who has the necessary knowledge to determine if hormones can be given in your case without a pelvic

good luck to you

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In fact, what I personally find selfish is somebody who uses “emotional blackmail” to force somebody into doing something.

reptile, i value your opinion like everyone else's, as i said in my previous post, but could you please please not start accusing people of stuff?

that doesn't make for a very open and honest discussion, and particularly in matters that are hard to talk about, a sense of being able to share is really important, at least to me

have a good day

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Androgyny,

First of all, as has been mentioned in posts prior to mine, people are ridiculously over-prepared in our American society. Our country tries to tell people what to eat, for crying out loud! The made French Fries ILLEGAL in New York because “they’re not good for you!” The risk for cervical cancer, as with any other cancer, is TINY! Especially when you’re not doing anything to promote it! It is YOUR body! I’m sorry if some of you think that it is SELFISH to not want to be VIOLATED and INVADED, but the whole practice is sick.

Does it occur to anyone that there ARE NOT doctors specifically for dealing with the male sexual organ?? Hmmm…That sounds a little odd, and don’t tell me it’s because women are more complicated because gynecologists only deal with a small part of the women’s reproductive anatomy. Also, almost all gynecologists are men. What nineteen-year-old BOY decides, fresh out of high school, to deal with that ONE part of a woman? Call me paranoid, but I think there’s something wrong with this.

I never publicly assign myself an official biological sex, but I can tell you that I won’t be having any checks for testicular cancer or gynecological visits. Perhaps there are those of you who are much less personally protective, but those of you who say you are and may well be, are at a different level than others. IT WOULD DESTROY me to have any such thing. I’m trying to think of anything as disgusting, dominating, frightening, and invasive as a gynecological exams. Men have it far worse than women. How can people expect women to waltz in and do such a thing. To me, that horrifies me, especially that some jerk doctors who are too insensitive to be in practice are actually rudely refusing to help someone.

Doctors are not always right. I’ve had surgery after surgery for the same problem since I was two and I’m expecting another. By different surgeons in response to the same problem. I’d been told by every surgeon that I’ve ever been to that there IS NOT a solution to my problem, and then I found one tucked away in a hospital near Chicago. As it turns out, surgeons and doctors in general do not communicate very well and there are plenty of things out there to help most people that they never bother to figure out. To me it seems many stop at the level their own education covered and leave the rest to the next generation. Just because a doctor said something doesn’t make them right. You’re on your own more than you think medically, and you can get much more accomplished than you think when you operate independently.

There are plenty of over-the-counter medicines out there specifically for women who experience your pain. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with you as I hear people discussing that problem all the time. For some people sometimes there are cramps, sometimes there are not. Some people have them every time. All that stuff they teach you in health class? It’s more to scare you than anything. I know MUCH more about biology than any of the health teachers I’ve had, and they usually have NO idea what they’re talking about, but someone told them back when they were in a group of teachers-in-training that they have to drill it in and really scare the kids so that the kids will do something. I know that sounds conspiratorial, but it makes me mad to see my peers falling for all kinds of lies or hyperbole.

*gets off soap-box*

I’ll leave you alone now. I’m sorry to anyone I’ve offended, but I meant what I said. There really are some things I’d rather risk than protect. Have you ever seen “The Pagemaster” with Macaulay Culkin? You can’t live life being scared all the time, what are you saving your health for?? You’ll just grow old having never REALLY lived! *sigh*

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Does it occur to anyone that there ARE NOT doctors specifically for dealing with the male sexual organ??

Yeah, that's really strange, given all the babies that men are having! :?

Why shouldn't there be doctors who specialize in assisting women through the most difficult, painful and exhausting time of their lives, when they are giving birth?

Thing is, as annie71 said, we voice our opinion (that the examination doesn't hurt but can potentially do a great deal of good) and you voice yours. No need to criticize one another.

I know that last year I had to watch my mother's best friend die of breast cancer. Who knows where she would be now if they had caught it earlier?

And I know I had my first exam ever, and it was no big deal at all.

I feel free to say this, because in my opinion no harm can come from saying it. Please let me say it, because it won't hurt you, and it will really ease my mind.

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Why shouldn't there be doctors who specialize in assisting women through the most difficult, painful and exhausting time of their lives, when they are giving birth?

Aren't those kinds of doctors called obstetricians, who are not necessarily the same as gynecologists?

I think Mr. Spock was perhaps alluding to the field of Western medicine's long history of misogyny, but that's probably another thread . . .

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i'm guessing you all have never heard of a urologist, who handles most of the "men issues" other than reproductive issues such as sperm count etc (altho they can handle those as well)

additionally, the penis is not an internal organ.

like it or not, the Uterus, the Ovaries, the Fallopian tubes are all INTERNAL organs.

a penis can be looked at, turned over, inspected - all while the guy is sitting there. now, when he needs a prostate exam, there is some invasive procedure involved.

that's just how it is people.

and yeah - i suppose america does have alot of preventative medicine - but that is generally what happens when doctors find out a bunch of different ways to PREVENT illnesses!

androgyny, i feel for you, i really do, and your choice is your choice, but to those of you preaching AGAINST getting a pap smear - how many of you have medical degrees? how many?

how many of you have nursing degrees? are you an EMT? are you a licensed midwife or a doula?

have you at least been trained to use a sphygmomanometer?

because if not, you are really in no place to say getting a test is wrong or whatever -

and the only reason *I* and i think maybe some of the others feel it is ok to say "get the test" when we DON'T have those same degrees is that we have been counseled by people who DO have those degrees and have actually gone thru the experience ourselves.

have a great day

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*sarcasm* :arrow: oh, dear... imagine that - some people would rather die than be violated in any way - lock them up, throw out the keys... :roll:

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*sarcasm* :arrow: oh, dear... imagine that - some people would rather die than be violated in any way - lock them up, throw out the keys... :roll:

Erm?

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...ah, yes. I forgot something :oops:

*sarcasm continued from my post earlier* :arrow: ... and don't let their poisonous way of thinking spread. :wink:

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summerbreeze

Hey Androgyny,

I totally get you. You have the right to refuse any "treatment" or examination that you feel is invasive and/or makes you feel uncomfortable. I didn't know that you had to get examined down there if you started BC pills (a misnomer since they're also used to regulate bleeding). Are you sure that's always the case? Cany you find a governmental clinic or Planned Parenthood clinic and pretend that you need these pills for BC or something? Maybe then they'll give it to you.

My Nurse Practioner reacted negatively, too, when I refused the PAP Smear. Guess why I haven't been back to see a Gyne though my "non-monthly, nonf-friend" is a hell I have to endure for little brats I'll never have! Ugh. This really bites.

I also don't know how I'll get tested for endemetriosis as transabdominal pelvic ultrasounds usually aren't sufficient to detect that. Well, the doctors better find some other way, 'cause there is no way in hell...

Really, these idiots, quacks, are trampling on the rights of asexuals. Ever been told by any of this unscientific nincompoops that you should get laid? I swear, we just might have to file a classaction lawsuit or something so that our rights to be asexual are recognized 'cause when they are not, which is most of the time, it's not funny!!! :evil: :!:

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summerbreeze

Hi,

Even Tylenol with Codeine wouldn't often help me or for long (no wonder I was/am so grumpy--pain is a major inducer of anger). Finally, a doctor recently prescribed Tramadol. It kind of helps but I don't want to be taking painkillers for the rest of my life!!!

Ibuprofen and other NSAIDs can also cause bleeding. Keep that in mind.

A heating pad is a temporary but effective treatment. Also, try to find out what is causing the heavy and/or painful bleeding. It could be endemetriosis or fibroids but you're probably too young for fibroids. Some people have been claimed the fact that we're not having sex is causing the heavy bleeding! Whatever. Even if it were true, do you think we're suddenly gonna shift our mindset to appease some idiots who think that they know better but don't?

Ugh, this reminds me of a very uncomfortable phone conversation I had with someone who tried to tell me that not having uterine contractions (i.e. during orgasm) leads to heavy menstrual bleeding. Well, better the latter than u-know-what.

edit: By the way, why does everyone, male and female, think that every problem can be solved with a penis?? :evil:

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reptilelover
In fact' date=' what I personally find selfish is somebody who uses “emotional blackmail” to force somebody into doing something.[/quote']

I am so sorry if you feel I was doing that....I guess I should just keep my opinions to myself....I meant no harm, really! :cry:

Ah… Bluejeanbabe, that was not directed at you personally. It is just the construction of your post that could have been interpreted that way, and since that struck a nerve I was compelled to write that. What can I say; I hate it when people accuse somebody of selfishness if he/she doesn’t want to do something with his/her body the accuser wants. Your body is the perhaps the only thing you have that you can truly call your own, and other people have no business calling you selfish when you do what you want with it. When somebody says he/she wants to do something with his/her body, I always go under assumption they have good reasons for their choices. I may give advice if the person wants my advice, but I am never going to call somebody selfish if they do opposite my advice, even if that action may end up with me getting emotionally hurt.

Again, not what you said, but it struck a nerve (especially in the setting of all the previous posts) and I wrote that without elaborating more on my meaning. Please do not mind this old reptilelover and share your opinions, and I will try to elaborate more on statements I make that could be taken the way I did not intend them to be taken.

androgyny' date=' maybe you should contact a few different gynos, females maybe, and discuss with them OPENLY and HONESTLY beforehand exactly how you feel, how the idea of the exam makes you feel, etc, and see what they have to say

if they won't talk about it - maybe not the doc for you! keep looking! i'm sure you can and will eventually find one who will tell you everything about what will happen during an exam, why it is necessary, etc, and then you will just have to make the decision on your own

[/quote']

Yes I do agree with this completely. But I do have to point out nobody said this in any of the posts prior to my first one (with notable exception of Jean Grey) which is what prompted me to make my rant. It seemed to me people were practically accusing Androgyny of committing suicide by not going to the gyno. Yes getting a cancer is a tragic event but you have to bear in mind that people who get it are in minority. I know of people in their mid 40ies, even mid 70ties who have never been to the gyno and never had a single problem with their feminine regions.

Also I hope you people know that going to the gyno will not lower your risk of getting cancer (and dying from it) to 0%. People who go regularly to the gyno do get cervical cancer and a certain percentage of them does die, but of course this percentage is lower for people who do go regularly then the ones who don’t. It is just that if your lifestyle already gives you the lowest (or somwhere around there) chance of acquiring a tumour, and this percentage can not be made lower (as to make a difference) by going to the regular checkups to the doctor, then in my opinion there is no reason for getting through discomfort if one does not want to. I am sorry if anybody thinks this statement (and other ones I made) mean discounting somebody’s opinion. It was not meant in that spirit.

androgyny, i feel for you, i really do, and your choice is your choice, but to those of you preaching AGAINST getting a pap smear - how many of you have medical degrees? how many?

how many of you have nursing degrees? are you an EMT? are you a licensed midwife or a doula?

Actually I have a degree in molecular biology, and have had a variety of subjects like human physiology, embryology, oncology, mutagenesis, neurology, immunology exc.

Also, I did talk about this with people who had medical degrees and nursing degrees (though I’ll admit I've never spoken with a licensed midwife and doula) and they have supported my opinion. Though, do not trust my word on this. Gather information on this issue and have a conversation with your doctor yourself. Doctors are fun to have a conversation with…

*EDIT*Oh, and I was not advocating not doing a pap smear (in fact it is quite recommended one does them in certain lifestyles or situations). I was merely advocating doing actions in accordance with one’s needs (and taking responsibility for them).

have you at least been trained to use a sphygmomanometer?

because if not, you are really in no place to say getting a test is wrong or whatever -

Well, I’ll admit I do not know what sphygmomanometer is, but we had a variety of practical instructions (some were even done in hospitals) that involved testing tissue samples on various tumours, autoimmune diseases, viruses exc.

Also, just to make it known, it is not the doctors that tell you if you have an invasive tumour or not. It is the people who work “behind the scenes” down in the laboratories. Doctor just takes out samples for testing, gives you possible solutions for your problem, does physical interventions necessary for getting better exc. But it is the people who work in the lab that tell the doctor that person in question does in fact have a problem. (I am not referring here to situations like broken bones, gun hits, blood loss exc. 8) )

*EDIT*I, personally am not of the opinion one has to have a degree to have credibility in discussing a certain topic. Anybody is free to read books on a certain topic despite one’s degrees (or lack of ones). When I get into discussion with someone I assume they are well acquainted with the topic in question, and try to understand meaning behind someone’s words even if they made a “blunder”. But I will point out when a certain way of thinking clashes (and in what degree it clashes) with known facts and theories. I, of course, expect nothing less in return.

Also, I hope I did not scare of anybody with my posts… :?

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