Master US Political Discussion Thread

[Sally]

Warnock's ahead, but some of the big counties haven't come in.   Walker's so far the worst possible candidate to sit in the most consequential political body in America.  Or even any tiny little political office in Georgia.  

 

 

[ben8884]

The AP are calling GA for Warnock but golly it was close! 50.8% for Warnock 49.2% for Walker.

[Autumn ace]

I’m relieved, but how did it get so close? I didn’t even realize Warnock was the incumbent. With that in mind, how did it get so close? 

[Sally]

YAY!!!!!  

 

It was close in the main election, which is why this one was held.  In a state like Georgia, it can be usually worth your life to vote if you're the wrong color.  However, since both candidates were black, the Republicans couldn't do their snide underhanded attacks quite as much as they usually do.  They just had to let their candidate talk and reveal his to-say-the-least weird beliefs, and then have his personal life revealed.   

 

This was another political failure for Trump.   DeSantis will be the 2024 candidate.  

[Autumn ace]

I’m hopeful that Trump will go down (he’s had a really bad week), but I’m not sure DeSantis is any better. 
 

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-12-08-22/index.html
When I woke up this morning, I was not expecting to see news about Brittney Griner.  I definitely wasn’t expecting to see that she’s been released. I’m so happy for her and her wife! 
That being said, this deal is kind of weird. Today explained (a vox podcast) did an episode on Viktor Bout (who Russia got back in the trade) and he’s done a lot of really terrible and dangerous things. The trade isn’t an even match. I don’t get why Biden wouldn’t push harder to get both Whelan and Griner if Russia was always going to get Viktor Bout back. I think Biden said Russia is treating his case differently, and that would make it a lot harder to negotiate. I’m sure Bidens descion was hard, and there was no perfect way to do this. He couldn’t just leave Griner there, but he was going to have to do a prisoner swap with Russia to get her out, which was always going to be problematic. And since Russias stubborn about Whelan, he was probably limited. It kind of looks like Biden left Whelan behind when I’m sure he tried. 
This is good because an American who was wrongfully detained (and held for months) is coming home. That being said, there’s a lot to this negotiation that’s concerning. 

[Sally]

DeSantis is essentially no better than Trump, and may even be worse.  He is smarter, and more focused, and thus he will be able to push through his dangerous and disgusting policies better than Trump did.  

[Lysandre, the Star-Crossed]

On 12/8/2022 at 6:58 PM, Sally said:

DeSantis is essentially no better than Trump, and may even be worse.  He is smarter, and more focused, and thus he will be able to push through his dangerous and disgusting policies better than Trump did.  

I felt exactly the same way about Mike Pence.

[ben8884]

The Jan 6 Committee has recommended that Trump be charged for four offences. 

Quote

They include conspiracy to defraud the United States; obstructing an official proceeding (the certification of Joe Biden's election victory); conspiracy to make a false statement and inciting or assisting an insurrection.

Apparently, his tax returns will also be made public. I love how the man who hounded Obama for years to release his birth certificate will fight tooth and nail to not release his tax returns. 

[Gentle Giant]

Ok, DOJ, let’s get the indictment and conviction show on the road!

[ben8884]

While I don't want Trump back at the White House, I can think of other government housing I wouldn't mind seeing him living in! This one comes with a jumpsuit, 3 meals and the knowledge that he will be there, unchallenged for a looooooong time! 

[Lysandre, the Star-Crossed]

1 hour ago, ben8884 said:

Apparently, his tax returns will also be made public. I love how the man who hounded Obama for years to release his birth certificate will fight tooth and nail to not release his tax returns. 

In all fairness, citizenship is a prerequisite to being the president of this country. Obama not being a citizen would be an issue. Tax returns have absolutely nothing to do with eligibility to hold said office, therefore they are not particularly relevant to anything. For some political groups a president who is particularly savvy at gaming the tax system would in fact be a plus to his electability rather than a minus. It's an apples to oranges comparison.

[ben8884]

27 minutes ago, Lysandre, the Star-Crossed said:

In all fairness, citizenship is a prerequisite to being the president of this country. Obama not being a citizen would be an issue. Tax returns have absolutely nothing to do with eligibility to hold said office, therefore they are not particularly relevant to anything. For some political groups a president who is particularly savvy at gaming the tax system would in fact be a plus to his electability rather than a minus. It's an apples to oranges comparison.

In theory this is true-unless of course the tax returns prove tax fraud. However, upon request Obama did release his birth certificate and it was not good enough. Plus, no one was doubting his Mother's citizenship which makes him a US citizen regardless of place of birth like Ted Cruz. 

[Sally]

39 minutes ago, Lysandre, the Star-Crossed said:

In all fairness, citizenship is a prerequisite to being the president of this country. Obama not being a citizen would be an issue. Tax returns have absolutely nothing to do with eligibility to hold said office, therefore they are not particularly relevant to anything. For some political groups a president who is particularly savvy at gaming the tax system would in fact be a plus to his electability rather than a minus. It's an apples to oranges comparison.

It was well-known where Obama was born, way before Trump started his deliberate challenging it.  

[daveb]

It was a racist dog whistle, not an actual serious question anyone reasonable had.

 

Tax returns can reveal relevant information, such as sources of income that may affect someone's self-interests which could affect their ability to be impartial in office.

 

Yeah, the 2 instances are not comparable.

[Sally]

Trump's tax returns could (and probably will) portray him as either 1) not having anywhere near the $$ he claims he has, or 2) lying like a rug on his tax returns, or both.  And the guy who's the business manager for the Trump corporation has already lied in his testimony, and then admitting that he lied.   

 

What really depresses me is that Trump's followers will probably not care about any of this.  I expected Trump to be horrible, but I didn't realize how many Americans would think he was a hero for being horrible.   

[Tetus]

10 hours ago, Lysandre, the Star-Crossed said:

In all fairness, citizenship is a prerequisite to being the president of this country. Obama not being a citizen would be an issue. Tax returns have absolutely nothing to do with eligibility to hold said office, therefore they are not particularly relevant to anything. For some political groups a president who is particularly savvy at gaming the tax system would in fact be a plus to his electability rather than a minus. It's an apples to oranges comparison.

People have been pointing out that this was a dog whistle at them time Trump did it. I’d like to just reaffirm that bringing this up today is still a dog whistle.

 

This is a gross thing to say.

[ben8884]

6 hours ago, Sally said:

What really depresses me is that Trump's followers will probably not care about any of this.  

Same

[Tetus]

The Republican Party is a very serious group of serious people.

 

[Autumn ace]

This has got to be great for Jeffries. He’s won every time so far, and McCarthy… hasn‘t won once 

[ben8884]

The GOP should let the Dems pick a speaker. Then the can spend 2 years doing what they should have done in 2020 namely, getting rid of Trump and his lackys. Then they could position some sane and moderate Senators/Reps for leadership roles and even for a Presidential nomination. 

[Sally]

1 hour ago, ben8884 said:

The GOP should let the Dems pick a speaker. Then the can spend 2 years doing what they should have done in 2020 namely, getting rid of Trump and his lackys. Then they could position some sane and moderate Senators/Reps for leadership roles and even for a Presidential nomination. 

I don't think there are any sane and moderate Republicans left in this country.  

[ben8884]

9 hours ago, Sally said:

I don't think there are any sane and moderate Republicans left in this country.  

There probably are, just not in the Senate or House. Its a problem though as they are becoming rarer. 

[Gentle Giant]

20 hours ago, Autumn ace said:

This has got to be great for Jeffries. He’s won every time so far, and McCarthy… hasn‘t won once 

Since Jeffries won, why isn’t he speaker of the house? Why all the extra voting?

[daveb]

18 minutes ago, Gentle Giant said:

Since Jeffries won, why isn’t he speaker of the house? Why all the extra voting?

He got the most votes, but not a majority (not more than 50%).

[Autumn ace]

3 minutes ago, daveb said:

He got the most votes, but not a majority (not more than 50%).

To add to that, since he’s the minority leader, he only needs 212 votes to become the house minority leader. He’s already got the votes, but every time they vote, they have to repeat the entire process (unless democrats were to leave the chamber). 
The house has picked a minority leader, but it still needs a majority leader, which is why they keep voting 

[Gentle Giant]

Thanks for the explanations, @daveb and @Autumn ace.

[ben8884]

If Trump csred about the GOP and unity he would tell McCarthy to withdraw

[Sally]

6 hours ago, ben8884 said:

If Trump csred about the GOP and unity he would tell McCarthy to withdraw

If Trump care about anybody or anything but himself, he wouldn't be himself.  

[Jethro]

10 hours ago, ben8884 said:

If Trump csred about the GOP and unity he would tell McCarthy to withdraw

I suspect Trumps endorsement was revenge for McCarthy saying "President Trump "bears responsibility" for the January 6 attack on the Capitol..."

 

Now neither the pro or anti Trumpers want McCarthy.

 

 

[daveb]

Well, he has more votes now, but still not enough. And sounds like he gave up a lot to get those votes. If he does get in he will be a weaker speaker by a squeaker.