Equating sex with Love

[Tctopcat]

There was a post a bit back about how people need to stop equating sex with love and I’ve seen quite a few articles about it.   I think this is insane and what is wrong with society today, or always has been.   We want to and do separate sec and love because of shit we have all been through in life , trauma and because of our psychology.   But sex and love are the same thing.  Sex is basic instinct and the most intimate you can be with someone.  When people orgasm they release oxytocin the hormone that bonds people and mothers and babies.   When people have one night stands they usually get out of there as soon as they are done because they have just been extremely intimate and naked with a stranger and feel embarrassed or ashamed(though obviously some don’t and should not, sex is not to be ashamed of).   But people run from love in our society and embrace just sex because we all need some intimacy and to feel that even if we don’t call it live or have totally detached emotionality from physicality because of our psychology.  That doesn’t however make it correct or normal because most of society has become this way.  Sex is love for those of us who haven’t been corrupted in that particular way.  For others love is something else because of the life they have lead.  It really just drives me insane the state people’s consensus on this because it’s convenient for people , especially selfish or screwed up ones.   If sex wasn’t love why do most people expect monogamy, why would sex with Someone else be so hurtful to the ones who love us , and why would sex with Simone else be disgusting to people in love.   Sex is love, but society is screwed up in so many ways, on so many levels.  Many of us have logically separated the two because it’s safer that way and more convenient and makes it easier to push away things we don’t want to deal with.  And I’m happy to debate anyone on this.  Debate though, not argue.  Constructive debate only please.

[Grimalkin]

I think... more than likely, sex and love mean different things to different people. Not everyone who thinks differently than you thinks that way because of some kind of trauma or corruption or because "society today" told them it must be that way. 

 

That's not to say sex and love aren't very often heavily intertwined, and often go hand-in-hand for sexual people. It's just that... for some people of any orientation, sex and love must be had together, and for some people of any orientation, they don't. The people who are non-monogamous or enjoy one night stands aren't necessarily framing sex and love in the same way as you, and that's fine.

 

I think it's more accurate overall to say that sex is an intimacy, and love is an intimacy, and two intimacies often overlap. 

[uhtred]

I think sex, love and their interaction are very different for different people.  Some people may not realize that others experience these things in an entirely different way than they do.   

[MakeupJunkie4]

So....those of us who love, but don't desire sex are "selfish" and "screwed up"....? That's so very kind of you. Thanks. I needed that.

[Skylord]

I love my friends and family, but I don't think I want to have sex with any of them. Just saying. 

[Gifted With Singleness]

I think it would be more accurate to say that sex can be a form of love if you want it. If you don't want it, sex can be "meh" at best, terrifying at worst.

 

Sometimes sex is bad sex. Sometimes sex is rape. And I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure bad sex and rape don't feel particularly loving.

 

I actually don't get that offended by people talking about sex as an act of love, since I usually understand what they're getting at. But it's very easy to overemphasize this, and when you do that, you start promoting the message that sex is mandatory.

 

But you can't force someone to love you. That's not how love works. Love has to be freely chosen.

 

Spoiler

Take it from me. Before I realized I was asexual, I literally believed that I had to get married in order to be a functioning member of society, and that my wife and I would have to rape each other on a consistent basis, because "that's what love is". And because I was dedicated to following the rules, I kept agonizing about how to make this marital rape as un-rapelike as possible. I tried to force myself to be okay with the idea of always having sex whenever my wife wanted it, no matter how uncomfortable I would feel (after all, I wouldn't want to be selfish). I figured it would be best if the sex happened while I was in a deep sleep, thus minimizing the chances that my tactile sensitivity would cause me to instinctively flinch. I tried to convince myself that it would be easier if I just said, "You know what? Anytime you want to have sex, just start doing sexual things to me without having to ask, and I'll go along with it and do whatever you want in order to fulfill my husbandly duties." I would agonize repeatedly over how to be the most effective sex slave to my wife, desperately trying to convince myself that it wouldn't be that bad (and I was pretty good at convincing myself, too). I would think all of this despite never having been on a single date, and I was fully convinced that this was the morally correct thing to do. That's how mentally tortured I was.

 

This kind of harmful mentality is what happens when you constantly overemphasize how awesome sex is and refuse to accept the painful reality that sometimes, people just don't want to have sex. And there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Jayfeather]

This just feels agressive and disrespectful to me. Everyone experiences love and sex differently and theres never only one way or another. Society pressures people when it comes to sex and its no wonder it bothers so many asexuals, as well as straight people. It just sometimes feels so overwhelming. My mom who is straight hates the pressure and how sex is fucking everywhere in the media.

Many asexuals dont connect sex and love as the same things, other do, other straight people dont or people who sadly went through abuse or trauma. Let everyone breath and have their own space. Saying today society is fucked up because of that is just stupid, im sorry. Im sure people felt different ways in past, too, they just didnt have many options. The difference between todays society and past centuries is that nowadays most of us are actually allowed to be different and to love or not to love how we have been expected to for so long.

[Guest]

So basically anyone who feels differently about sex than you than is traumatized, selfish, and screwed up?

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Tctopcat said:

But sex and love are the same thing.  Sex is basic instinct and the most intimate you can be with someone.

For some yes, for some also the most intimate you can be is having someone there besides you through life's events. 

 

5 hours ago, Tctopcat said:

If sex wasn’t love why do most people expect monogamy

This depends heavily on culture.

 

Quote

United StatesEdit

Polygamy is the act or condition of a person marrying another person while still being lawfully married to another spouse. It is illegal in the United States. The crime is punishable by a fine, imprisonment, or both, according to the law of the individual state and the circumstances of the offense.^[

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy_in_North_America

 

You know, ... it being a crime, might have some part of influence?

 

5 hours ago, Tctopcat said:

why would sex with Someone else be so hurtful to the ones

In other cultures some are proud to be with someone who has 3 wives... Means they have a good man over there... Strong ect..

The other way, polyandry exists too.

 

 

Please, talk for yourself. This isn't something that's a debate. There's no wrong or right to either side.

 

[krusk]

Alright so @Tctopcat I have to say that I quiet strongly disagree with your statements and I am going to do my best to explain why here. Hopefully you will read this and hopefully I explain myself well enough so that you understand where I am coming from. If you do not understand my point, please let me know and I will do my best to clarify.

 

I would like to start off by saying to any aspec. people reading this that you are absolutely valid and no one can take that away. You can love fully and completely regardless of your feelings towards sex. I am writing this in the hopes of educating Tctopcat and any who share their views. I am going to be reiterating their views throughout my post but I do not share their views.  

 

First off, I want to make sure I understand what you have said, so that you know what I think you mean. I could of course misunderstand you, and if that is the case please clarify. 

 

Your central claim seems to be that

5 hours ago, Tctopcat said:

Sex is basic instinct and the most intimate you can be with someone.

Your text does not seem to be supporting the idea that sex is basic instinct, but rather focuses on the idea that sex is the most intimate you can be with someone. I will therefore be responding to that claim.  

I also think that is what you mean when you say that "Sex is Love", but of course I could be mistaken, if so please correct me. 

 

You then have 3 arguments that I could pick out which are there to support your central claim. 

1. Hormone Argument: When someone orgasms a hormone is released which is designed to form a emotional relationship between people (in particular mothers and babies). I assume the point you are trying to make with this argument is that the hormones release leads to people feeling emotionally attached to each other. This increased emotional attachment leads people to be more intimate with each other and therefore Sex is the most intimate you can be with someone. 

2. One night stand argument: people feel ashamed after having a one night stand. This shame is because they have shared intimacy with a stranger who they do not know. They feel this shame because they have expressed the most intimacy they could with someone they have no feelings for. Other forms of interaction and intimacy do not lead to the same feeling of shame, therefore sex is the most intimate you can be with someone. 

3. Monogamy Argument: people feel drawn towards monogamous relationships. When people engage in sex outside of monogamous relationships, the other partner feels hurt. This is because you can only be your most intimate with one person, and therefore sex is the intimate you can be with someone. 

 

I think this is what your arguments mean, but again I could be incorrect, and if I have misrepresented your views, please let me know so I can more accurately respond to them. 

 

Next I want to take a moment to define a few of the terms we are using in this discussion to ensure that there is as little understanding between us as possible. 

1. Intimacy: so according to google: "close familiarity or friendship; closeness." This is a highly vague definition, but I think what we can call intimacy is essentially a strong emotional bond formed between people. This is still very vague, and if there is a better definition you know of then please let me know. 

2. Sex: the act of consensual sexual intercourse. I am assuming that you are not suggesting that intimacy can be forced upon another person. I'm also assuming a host of other actions may be considered to be involved in sexual intercourse but I do not want to list them. If I misunderstand your meaning, again please let me know. 

 

Next I want to go over your 3 arguments and explain why I think they fail to support your claim that sex is the most intimate you can be with someone. 

1. Hormonal Argument: I would like to start off by saying that I am not a biologist or psychiatrist and I don't know an awful lot about how the brain works. However, I would like to point out that Sexual Intercourse is not the only way an orgasm can be reached, and in a situation where one stimulates themselves into orgasm, as I understand it the same hormone would be released into the brain. The hormone is then in the brain without forming intimacy with another person. If this can be done when one is by themselves, I do not see it reason the same affect couldn't be achieved when another person is doing the handiwork. If the hormone doesn't lead to intimacy, then this argument does not support your conclusion. 

2. One Night Stand Argument: I would like to start off by saying that I have never had a one night stand, and no one who has had one has spoken to me about this. this argument seems to say that people feel ashamed only because of the oversharing of intimacy. However, according to this  article  https://torontosun.com/2017/01/26/ladies-why-do-we-still-feel-guilty-about-one-night-stands the fear of pregnancy, STIs and getting a bad reputation (aka “slut-shaming”) as other factors that make women more unhappy about casual sexual encounters. These factors and fears may lead to people feeling ashamed or regretful of the encounter. This offers a different explanation as to the phenomenon you were trying to explain and so the argument does not prove your conclusion.  

I am a little confused by your claim that they ought to not feel ashamed. It seems to me that such people would necessarily have disconnected love and sex in their minds in order to be unashamed after a one-night stand, and as you state later in your text, such people are corrupt. 

5 hours ago, Tctopcat said:

But people run from love in our society and embrace just sex because we all need some intimacy and to feel that even if we don’t call it live or have totally detached emotionality from physicality because of our psychology.  That doesn’t however make it correct or normal because most of society has become this way.  Sex is love for those of us who haven’t been corrupted in that particular way.

The view that they are corrupt and do not need to be ashamed seem a little contradictory to me. If you could clarify your thoughts on this that would be greatly appreciated. 

 

3. The Monogamy argument: Your claim in this argument seems to rely on the fact that jealousy is derived from sexual intercourse, however jealousy can be derived from many things. In my current relationship, we have set aside a particular time on Saturday nights to spend time together. If the person I'm seeing were to schedule a different event at that time without telling me first, I would feel a little betrayed (in this instance I say a little as we haven't been seeing each other very long, but if we were in a longer relationship I would feel very betrayed). Or for a common example if a couple has a specific show that they watch together, if one were to watch the show without their partner, that would be a betrayal. Neither of these examples would incite jealousy outside of the context of a relationship where both partners agreed to only do that thing with the other partner. The same is true for sex. There are polyamorous people who have sex with multiple partners but because there is no expectation of monogamy, their relationships are stable. There is a different explanation of why people would be jealous rather than simply saying that "Sex is Love", and therefore your argument does not support your conclusion. 

 

Now that I have addressed your arguments I have a few questions for you, that hopefully will make you think. 

 

I am asexual. I have no desire to have sex with another person. I do desire a partner. I want to care about them and I want to love them. I would really like to know if you would say that I am incapable of feeling and expressing love to the same extent as an allosexual person. I think that I am capable of it, but not through sex. Do you disagree? 

 

What do you think endows sex with meaning outside of societal constructs? You claimed that it is wrong for society to not equate love and sex, so clearly it is not societal rules that make it special. I would like to know what you think does. 

 

On that note you seem to have a metric of judging societies, and concluded that it is problematic for societies to not equate love and sex. How are you capable of making such judgements? 

 

Why did you post this here? this is quite possibly the worst possible place you could've posted it. Asexuals are told constantly that sex is the key to love and told that our experiences are invalid. Why would you come in here are say that "Sex is love"? I personally felt shaken reading that here and I imagine that others did as well. 

 

Thank you for reading this, I hope it has made you think. If you have any questions about any points I raised feel free to send me a message. 

[Janus the Fox]

Moved to Asexual Musings and Rantings

 

Janus DarkFox

Weekends Asexual Relationships, Current Questions about Asexuality, Asexual Musings and Rantings & Open Mic Moderator

[RobL2415]

Well the way I understand love is probably different from all y'alls.

 

I view love as an expression of how Jesus interacted with us during his time on earth. When we choose to marry someone, we are loving them in the same way that He loved us. In a more practical sense, we are saying "I accept you unconditionally, faults and all, because I deeply care about you and want to spend my life growing in faith with you." Marriage is an embodiment of Christ's love. There's other ways to do this to: serving in your church, going on missions trips, holding Bible studies, etc. But I think people get hung up on marriage as the most sacred form of love because physical intimacy is involved, and that's not what Jesus taught us. Jesus love was through action, through the fulfillment of the Law, and through obedience to the Father. And, in marriage, sex is a gift from God as an expression of love. Though, I think that just because it's specifically called out in the Bible doesn't mean that other forms of affection don't express love. Some people read passages in the Bible as exclusionary when they fail to mention something that is culturally acceptable that isn't necessarily sin. For example, kissing isn't called out but we know that it can be an action of love. Just because the Bible doesn't say something doesn't make it meaningless.

 

I desperately want to love someone in this way.

[Gifted With Singleness]

1 hour ago, RobL2415 said:

Well the way I understand love is probably different from all y'alls.

 

I view love as an expression of how Jesus interacted with us during his time on earth. When we choose to marry someone, we are loving them in the same way that He loved us. In a more practical sense, we are saying "I accept you unconditionally, faults and all, because I deeply care about you and want to spend my life growing in faith with you." Marriage is an embodiment of Christ's love. There's other ways to do this to: serving in your church, going on missions trips, holding Bible studies, etc. But I think people get hung up on marriage as the most sacred form of love because physical intimacy is involved, and that's not what Jesus taught us. Jesus love was through action, through the fulfillment of the Law, and through obedience to the Father. And, in marriage, sex is a gift from God as an expression of love. Though, I think that just because it's specifically called out in the Bible doesn't mean that other forms of affection don't express love. Some people read passages in the Bible as exclusionary when they fail to mention something that is culturally acceptable that isn't necessarily sin. For example, kissing isn't called out but we know that it can be an action of love. Just because the Bible doesn't say something doesn't make it meaningless.

 

I desperately want to love someone in this way.

I realize this isn't a Christian thread, but I just want to voice my agreement as a devout Christian. Love can take a variety of different forms, and we miss out on a lot when we only focus on marriage and marital sex. I think that, when people read verses like 1 Corinthians 7:3-5, they interpret it as sex being mandatory in marriage, when I think those verses are actually making the point that the couple should do whatever they can to resolve any apparent sexual incompatibilities. That can be very difficult, especially if one of the spouses is asexual. But it's very much a reality that needs to be reckoned with.

 

Also, while the Bible describes marriage as a gift, singleness is also a gift. Unfortunately, a lot of Christians seem very ill-equipped to discuss the benefits of a single life. The message usually boils down to the idea that you're free from the burdens of marriage. But there's a lot more to it than that. A single, celibate life also features commitment, but in different ways. You commit to God, you commit to your friends, you commit to serving your church, and you commit to people as a whole. One message I heard that really resonates with me is that, while marriage represents the depth of God's love, a single life represents the breadth of God's love. Both dimensions matter.

[MakeupJunkie4]

 ^ While I'm no longer a Christian, I really wish this would have been taught more in the (many) churches I went to!

[RobL2415]

3 hours ago, Gifted With Singleness said:

I realize this isn't a Christian thread, but I just want to voice my agreement as a devout Christian. Love can take a variety of different forms, and we miss out on a lot when we only focus on marriage and marital sex. I think that, when people read verses like 1 Corinthians 7:3-5, they interpret it as sex being mandatory in marriage, when I think those verses are actually making the point that the couple should do whatever they can to resolve any apparent sexual incompatibilities. That can be very difficult, especially if one of the spouses is asexual. But it's very much a reality that needs to be reckoned with.

 

Also, while the Bible describes marriage as a gift, singleness is also a gift. Unfortunately, a lot of Christians seem very ill-equipped to discuss the benefits of a single life. The message usually boils down to the idea that you're free from the burdens of marriage. But there's a lot more to it than that. A single, celibate life also features commitment, but in different ways. You commit to God, you commit to your friends, you commit to serving your church, and you commit to people as a whole. One message I heard that really resonates with me is that, while marriage represents the depth of God's love, a single life represents the breadth of God's love. Both dimensions matter.

Amen. I'd love to connect with you some time about your thoughts on LGBTQ+ issues in the Church.

[Artemis42]

I have no idea what made you want to post this in a forum about asexuality, but go off I guess ... Actually, on second thought, please go off elsewhere

[Gifted With Singleness]

3 hours ago, RobL2415 said:

Amen. I'd love to connect with you some time about your thoughts on LGBTQ+ issues in the Church.

Well, it looks like you came to the right person, since this is something that's been on my mind for a while. You can PM me if you want.

[Tctopcat]

23 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

I think... more than likely, sex and love mean different things to different people. Not everyone who thinks differently than you thinks that way because of some kind of trauma or corruption or because "society today" told them it must be that way. 

 

That's not to say sex and love aren't very often heavily intertwined, and often go hand-in-hand for sexual people. It's just that... for some people of any orientation, sex and love must be had together, and for some people of any orientation, they don't. The people who are non-monogamous or enjoy one night stands aren't necessarily framing sex and love in the same way as you, and that's fine.

 

I think it's more accurate overall to say that sex is an intimacy, and love is an intimacy, and two intimacies often overlap. 

I know what you are saying and yes “technically” they aren’t the same thing but they are meant to go hand in hand and yes lots of people frame it differently but it is because of their life experiences that they do that, whatever they may be, good or bad or just life. Our environment does shape us and how we see the world though obviously only to a point .  I do agree with a lot of what you are saying but I think that separating sex and love is damaging to people weather they want to see it or not.  .  It’s such an insanely complicated and multilayered problem as are most today.  

[Tctopcat]

23 hours ago, uhtred said:

I think sex, love and their interaction are very different for different people.  Some people may not realize that others experience these things in an entirely different way than they do.   

Everyone experienced them differently today, because we’ve all had different lives and experiences , but I feel a good portion of the way people look at sex is unhealthy and hurtful to themselves and others .  I probably started a pointless thread honestly because it’s so interwoven with the many issues with society today.  Too complicated and no way to address .

[Tctopcat]

23 hours ago, Skylord said:

I love my friends and family, but I don't think I want to have sex with any of them. Just saying. 

That’s just playing semantics and you know it.  Romantic love.  And I should not have said they were the “same thing” but instead our brain thinks they are the same thing and for a majority of us we also consciously recognise that as well to a point.  But society has told us otherwise now and people operate this way which causes a lot of emotional damage and cognitive dissonance.

[Tctopcat]

22 hours ago, Gifted With Singleness said:

I think it would be more accurate to say that sex can be a form of love if you want it. If you don't want it, sex can be "meh" at best, terrifying at worst.

 

Sometimes sex is bad sex. Sometimes sex is rape. And I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure bad sex and rape don't feel particularly loving.

 

I actually don't get that offended by people talking about sex as an act of love, since I usually understand what they're getting at. But it's very easy to overemphasize this, and when you do that, you start promoting the message that sex is mandatory.

 

But you can't force someone to love you. That's not how love works. Love has to be freely chosen.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Take it from me. Before I realized I was asexual, I literally believed that I had to get married in order to be a functioning member of society, and that my wife and I would have to rape each other on a consistent basis, because "that's what love is". And because I was dedicated to following the rules, I kept agonizing about how to make this marital rape as un-rapelike as possible. I tried to force myself to be okay with the idea of always having sex whenever my wife wanted it, no matter how uncomfortable I would feel (after all, I wouldn't want to be selfish). I figured it would be best if the sex happened while I was in a deep sleep, thus minimizing the chances that my tactile sensitivity would cause me to instinctively flinch. I tried to convince myself that it would be easier if I just said, "You know what? Anytime you want to have sex, just start doing sexual things to me without having to ask, and I'll go along with it and do whatever you want in order to fulfill my husbandly duties." I would agonize repeatedly over how to be the most effective sex slave to my wife, desperately trying to convince myself that it wouldn't be that bad (and I was pretty good at convincing myself, too). I would think all of this despite never having been on a single date, and I was fully convinced that this was the morally correct thing to do. That's how mentally tortured I was.

 

This kind of harmful mentality is what happens when you constantly overemphasize how awesome sex is and refuse to accept the painful reality that sometimes, people just don't want to have sex. And there's nothing wrong with that.

 

I often make the mistake of speaking too broadly and generalising when I get something in my head I need to say, which I then inevitably have to clarify, which I am doing here.   First I would like to say, you are speaking extremely  technically.  You having sex with someone may be the most intimate showing of your love, but not if they don’t want it.   That’s a horrible false equivalency , weaponising  logic .Rape is not love, forcing someone to do something they do not want to do is not love.  Sex is the most intimate way you can show your love for someone .  Though as I’ve said because of life experiences , this isn’t true for everyone because people lock themselves up emotionally and sex isn’t emotionally intimate for them.  I think my real point was meant to be a rant that society is fucked on many levels that bother me and cause issues in this area I think for everyone.  I saw a post here a bout it and it set me off.  

[Tctopcat]

18 hours ago, krusk said:

Alright so @Tctopcat I have to say that I quiet strongly disagree with your statements and I am going to do my best to explain why here. Hopefully you will read this and hopefully I explain myself well enough so that you understand where I am coming from. If you do not understand my point, please let me know and I will do my best to clarify.

 

I would like to start off by saying to any aspec. people reading this that you are absolutely valid and no one can take that away. You can love fully and completely regardless of your feelings towards sex. I am writing this in the hopes of educating Tctopcat and any who share their views. I am going to be reiterating their views throughout my post but I do not share their views.  

 

First off, I want to make sure I understand what you have said, so that you know what I think you mean. I could of course misunderstand you, and if that is the case please clarify. 

 

Your central claim seems to be that

Your text does not seem to be supporting the idea that sex is basic instinct, but rather focuses on the idea that sex is the most intimate you can be with someone. I will therefore be responding to that claim.  

I also think that is what you mean when you say that "Sex is Love", but of course I could be mistaken, if so please correct me. 

 

You then have 3 arguments that I could pick out which are there to support your central claim. 

1. Hormone Argument: When someone orgasms a hormone is released which is designed to form a emotional relationship between people (in particular mothers and babies). I assume the point you are trying to make with this argument is that the hormones release leads to people feeling emotionally attached to each other. This increased emotional attachment leads people to be more intimate with each other and therefore Sex is the most intimate you can be with someone. 

2. One night stand argument: people feel ashamed after having a one night stand. This shame is because they have shared intimacy with a stranger who they do not know. They feel this shame because they have expressed the most intimacy they could with someone they have no feelings for. Other forms of interaction and intimacy do not lead to the same feeling of shame, therefore sex is the most intimate you can be with someone. 

3. Monogamy Argument: people feel drawn towards monogamous relationships. When people engage in sex outside of monogamous relationships, the other partner feels hurt. This is because you can only be your most intimate with one person, and therefore sex is the intimate you can be with someone. 

 

I think this is what your arguments mean, but again I could be incorrect, and if I have misrepresented your views, please let me know so I can more accurately respond to them. 

 

Next I want to take a moment to define a few of the terms we are using in this discussion to ensure that there is as little understanding between us as possible. 

1. Intimacy: so according to google: "close familiarity or friendship; closeness." This is a highly vague definition, but I think what we can call intimacy is essentially a strong emotional bond formed between people. This is still very vague, and if there is a better definition you know of then please let me know. 

2. Sex: the act of consensual sexual intercourse. I am assuming that you are not suggesting that intimacy can be forced upon another person. I'm also assuming a host of other actions may be considered to be involved in sexual intercourse but I do not want to list them. If I misunderstand your meaning, again please let me know. 

 

Next I want to go over your 3 arguments and explain why I think they fail to support your claim that sex is the most intimate you can be with someone. 

1. Hormonal Argument: I would like to start off by saying that I am not a biologist or psychiatrist and I don't know an awful lot about how the brain works. However, I would like to point out that Sexual Intercourse is not the only way an orgasm can be reached, and in a situation where one stimulates themselves into orgasm, as I understand it the same hormone would be released into the brain. The hormone is then in the brain without forming intimacy with another person. If this can be done when one is by themselves, I do not see it reason the same affect couldn't be achieved when another person is doing the handiwork. If the hormone doesn't lead to intimacy, then this argument does not support your conclusion. 

2. One Night Stand Argument: I would like to start off by saying that I have never had a one night stand, and no one who has had one has spoken to me about this. this argument seems to say that people feel ashamed only because of the oversharing of intimacy. However, according to this  article  https://torontosun.com/2017/01/26/ladies-why-do-we-still-feel-guilty-about-one-night-stands the fear of pregnancy, STIs and getting a bad reputation (aka “slut-shaming”) as other factors that make women more unhappy about casual sexual encounters. These factors and fears may lead to people feeling ashamed or regretful of the encounter. This offers a different explanation as to the phenomenon you were trying to explain and so the argument does not prove your conclusion.  

I am a little confused by your claim that they ought to not feel ashamed. It seems to me that such people would necessarily have disconnected love and sex in their minds in order to be unashamed after a one-night stand, and as you state later in your text, such people are corrupt. 

The view that they are corrupt and do not need to be ashamed seem a little contradictory to me. If you could clarify your thoughts on this that would be greatly appreciated. 

 

3. The Monogamy argument: Your claim in this argument seems to rely on the fact that jealousy is derived from sexual intercourse, however jealousy can be derived from many things. In my current relationship, we have set aside a particular time on Saturday nights to spend time together. If the person I'm seeing were to schedule a different event at that time without telling me first, I would feel a little betrayed (in this instance I say a little as we haven't been seeing each other very long, but if we were in a longer relationship I would feel very betrayed). Or for a common example if a couple has a specific show that they watch together, if one were to watch the show without their partner, that would be a betrayal. Neither of these examples would incite jealousy outside of the context of a relationship where both partners agreed to only do that thing with the other partner. The same is true for sex. There are polyamorous people who have sex with multiple partners but because there is no expectation of monogamy, their relationships are stable. There is a different explanation of why people would be jealous rather than simply saying that "Sex is Love", and therefore your argument does not support your conclusion. 

 

Now that I have addressed your arguments I have a few questions for you, that hopefully will make you think. 

 

I am asexual. I have no desire to have sex with another person. I do desire a partner. I want to care about them and I want to love them. I would really like to know if you would say that I am incapable of feeling and expressing love to the same extent as an allosexual person. I think that I am capable of it, but not through sex. Do you disagree? 

 

What do you think endows sex with meaning outside of societal constructs? You claimed that it is wrong for society to not equate love and sex, so clearly it is not societal rules that make it special. I would like to know what you think does. 

 

On that note you seem to have a metric of judging societies, and concluded that it is problematic for societies to not equate love and sex. How are you capable of making such judgements? 

 

Why did you post this here? this is quite possibly the worst possible place you could've posted it. Asexuals are told constantly that sex is the key to love and told that our experiences are invalid. Why would you come in here are say that "Sex is love"? I personally felt shaken reading that here and I imagine that others did as well. 

 

Thank you for reading this, I hope it has made you think. If you have any questions about any points I raised feel free to send me a message. 

Hey Krusk, first thing I’ll say is sorry if I unsettled you or anyone else.  And also sorry that you took so long to respond to all I said as most of it you misinterpreted , which is my fault.  I’ve already answered someone else explaining often when I feel the need to go off on a subject I tend to speak in broad terms and then have to go back and reexplain.  I originally posted because someone else had posted and argument saying people should not equate sex and love.  This is a hot button for me and the comments were closed, so I started another one, it was more of a rant, like I said hot button.  And I was all over the mark, very unclear, I wasn’t exactly submitting my thesis.  I actually hate having to try and type and explain as there are so many points to make and layers to it.  But from your perspective I think it would be hard to cover unless we were actually speaking live in a chat room or voice in some way.  But I will say I wasn’t trying to detract from anyone’s experiences , I wasn’t contradicting myself about the shame thing, the last thing people need to feel about sex is shame, it does no one any good (unless they use sex as a weapon or just use people period) and to clarify, I’m asexual , and I equate sex with love.  But there is a lot to that and that is not a “law” and cannot be taken “literally”.  Because rape is not love, and not having sex with someone because you are asexual does not mean you don’t love them.  There are just too many bases to cover.  You wanna chat about it on a I’ve forum sometime hit me up.

[Tctopcat]

21 hours ago, theV0ID said:

So basically anyone who feels differently about sex than you than is traumatized, selfish, and screwed up?

Yah I certainly seemed to be saying that , sorry theVOID , I have a tendency to put my foot in it sometimes.  I definitely was saying something to that effect  but not exactly, details are important. I’m saying society is all those things, which I think most of us would agree with.  I tend to be sensitive , and I I do feel that most people perspectives on sex are messed up and it comes from our experiences in life and society, good or bad.  It’s just what we are taught is normal.   But I think it’s harmful to everyone in the long run, and I’ve never felt that way.  I’ve always been the weird one. I’m not trying to change anyone, or shame or judge .  I was just triggered and ranted.

[Gifted With Singleness]

@Tctopcat Here's the thing. Yes, as a general rule, sex is a form of intimacy. But asexuality is perhaps the most obvious exception to the rule. So I just find it odd that you would make a post about how true this rule is without clarifying an important exception on a website specifically dedicated to that exception. It just rubs me the wrong way. It would be like making a post about the health benefits of peanuts on a website dedicated to discussing peanut allergies. The context just doesn't fit.

 

For what it's worth, I believe I saw the thread that you say motivated this one, and I do think that thread got unnecessarily heated. So I can understand your frustrations. But context matters. Many of us here on AVEN have spent a long time feeling like our capacity for love is defective due to our lack of desire for sex, so to see a thread that just says, "sex is love" without discussing the important nuance can be very upsetting.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Tctopcat said:

Yah I certainly seemed to be saying that , sorry theVOID , I have a tendency to put my foot in it sometimes.  I definitely was saying something to that effect  but not exactly, details are important. I’m saying society is all those things, which I think most of us would agree with.  I tend to be sensitive , and I I do feel that most people perspectives on sex are messed up and it comes from our experiences in life and society, good or bad.  It’s just what we are taught is normal.   But I think it’s harmful to everyone in the long run, and I’ve never felt that way.  I’ve always been the weird one. I’m not trying to change anyone, or shame or judge .  I was just triggered and ranted.

ok. The fact that you chose to post your rant as your first post on an asexual forum is... interesting. It's almost as if you wanted to upset people.

 

You may benefit from realising that human beings are incredibly diverse in their nature and experience, and that just because some people's experience is different from your doesn't mean it is "messed up", or harmfull. 

[Guest]

.... double post

[krusk]

@Tctopcat I appreciate the response, and I didn't think the post seemed like much of a thesis. I responded to it as if it was because at the end of your original post you put out a call for constructive debate on the topic. Now, as I do feel very strongly about this topic as well, I felt it necessary to respond to your claims as thoroughly as possible. Given that your views were not well laid out (as is natural as you were only ranting), I did my best to reconstruct your views from the limited sample I had, and respond to those views accordingly. I was aware that I may have misunderstood you (as I mentioned numerous times in my post) but much like you did, I felt a need to comment something and in the spirit of constructive debate I did my best to respond to my best guess at what you were trying to say.  

 

When I hear that Love is sex, I think that if I held that to be true, then I exist in contradiction. I do not desire sex. I do desire love. If love is sex, and I desire love, then I desire sex, as mentioned I do not desire sex and thus a contradiction is formed. I do not think I exist in contradiction, and so this claim detracts from my experience. This may or not be entailed in what you mean by love is sex, but on face value that is what the statement means to me unless further context is given. I would greatly appreciate it if you could clarify this point here.  

 

I will be sending you a message in hopes of understanding your meaning and I hope that we can come to understand one another. 

[Tctopcat]

2 hours ago, theV0ID said:

ok. The fact that you chose to post your rant as your first post on an asexual forum is... interesting. It's almost as if you wanted to upset people.

 

You may benefit from realising that human beings are incredibly diverse in their nature and experience, and that just because some people's experience is different from your doesn't mean it is "messed up", or harmfull. 

My post was in response to another post, on this topic on here.  And I am asexual , I didn’t even think about the fact that asexuals as a group might feel differently , I was thinking about societies behaviour towards it in general but it seems like you don’t care .  Seems like you are up just to argue.