Does anyone else thinks that the Democrat/Left side has some hypocrites?

[Jusey1]

Using this definition for hypocrisy: "the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense."

So, ever since the recent attack on the Capitol, I notice a stronger opinion of people hating on all Republicans just for being Republican here in America. I've notice this happening every now and then but it has really grown quite strong recently... However, I find this to be hypocritical for the people who does this kind of thinking and it happens a lot more with Democrats than it does with Republican base on what I have seen. A very common moral belief on the Democrat side (though it does exist on Republican side too) is that everyone should have equal rights, treatment, etc. Be it women, races, LGBTQIA, and many more groups... Ya know, the idea to not judge someone base on their outer interior but race judge them base on their actions. (Outer interior including general groups and fandoms as well in this case, such me being in the furry fandom).

However, a lot of Democrats who seems to follow these beliefs does not extend to Republican and will automatically label ALL Republicans as bad people, just because of their political leaning (rather than base on their truthful actions and opinions), and I find this to be hypocritical by a landslide, especially since I know a lot of Republicans (my family is mostly Republican despite me and my sister being Democrat. I have plenty of good close Republican friends as well)... And I wouldn't consider any of them as truly terrible people, especially since we share a lot of similar morals when it comes to these stuffs, we just see the source of the problems in different locations or have different opinions on other issues entirely, which is fine in my books. Hell, when I came out to my family as being Asexual and gay-romantically, even introducing my boyfriend to them (now ex-boyfriend)... My entire Republican family was great and they ended up loving my boyfriend at the time, welcoming him just fine into the family. Actually, the only issues I had with my family was with my Democratic sister ignoring my claims of being Asexual and try to "correct me" on my sexuality... (She is also the only family member who hates me being furry. When I first told her about that, she tried to say that being a furry means I am an animal fucker and what not, so that was a fun conversation to have with her!)...

Anyways, I believe I am justified to make claims of people being hypocritical but wanted to ask if anyone else share this opinion or not?

[PrimeJelly]

I'm not polticial or choose to lean on either side since I've long realized that both sides have their terrible tendencies and I entirely agree with you. I might not be able to add much to your question but I think you are 100% right with what you say. Another issue I have with democrats it that they want to defund the police but I think that's a bad idea. The police are the first responders to a broad range of public-safety issues and serious crime. Crime will not end if we abolish or defund the police. If the police are defunded, there will be delayed response when people who are in need call 911, fewer police on the street in neighborhoods and communities, and lack of police capacity to respond to serious crimes that present significant threats to public safety. If we defund the police, those most affected will be the poor and the marginalized. Wealthy neighborhoods will hire private security as they are already doing, and poorer neighborhoods will have to fend for themselves even more than they already have to. I think we definitely should do something about the racist, trashy cops by making these people be more held accountable by the court of law. So shouldn't the target be the legal system not the corporation itself? By attacking the police nothing will be done since they aren't properly dealt with where it actually counts (the law system). 

 

Well I mean the police already got defended in many states so I'm just being salty at this point lol

[Homer]

Loads.

[Morays]

2 minutes ago, PrimeJelly said:

I'm not polticial or choose to lean on either side since I've long realized that both sides have their terrible tendencies and I entirely agree with you.

Isn't that a false equivalency? I won't automatically defend every action of the Democratic party, but I don't see anything within it along the scale of what happened at the capitol last week -- i.e. people literally trying to overthrow the democratic process itself based on them not liking the results of an election.

 

I don't particularly understand claims to being "apolitical," since that in and of itself is a political stance.

 

As Desmond Tutu famously said, "if an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality." I don't subscribe to the idea that the mouse has to be ideologically pure and morally unassailable for one to still take action to save it. Standing back and claiming apoliticism or neutrality in the face of such a virulent assault on representative democracy just doesn't compute for me. This was an actual attempt at a coup. Do you really not lean towards either side of democracy or dictatorship?

[uhtred]

I think every group has hypocrites and extremists. 

 

I think its best to focus on what the majority of the group believes.

 

[_Neon_]

I mean, obviously there will be hypocrisy no matter where you look. That seems to be a given in politics. But I disagree on this

3 minutes ago, Jusey1 said:

So, ever since the recent attack on the Capitol, I notice a stronger opinion of people hating on all Republicans just for being Republican here in America. I've notice this happening every now and then but it has really grown quite strong recently... However, I find this to be hypocritical for the people who does this kind of thinking and it happens a lot more with Democrats than it does with Republican base on what I have seen.

Because for the last four years, the common republican sayings were "liberal tears" and "fuck your feelings" Which, honestly, were quite funny. But I've yet to see anything comparable from the left side, except in recent mockery of those. But there was also decrying of "radical left democrats," as well as putting "radical left" in front of any movement or person they didn't like. Such as, but not limited to "radical left feminists," "radical left antifa (not even an organization)," and "radical left BLM." And then there's the less pleasant terms for liberals on the right, which use ableist and sexist language. I've yet to see anything comparable from the left. That's not to say it doesn't happen, just that it isn't mainstream from what I've seen.

 

However, in terms of general hypocrisy, the left has a ton. I'm aware that as a left-leaning independent, some of my views are fairly contradictory. I've revised many opinions to have actual merit.

 

But just as it's not fair to say that just the right is hypocritical, it isn't fair to say just the left is. I think both of those sides tend to be hypocrites. Every side does. It's nearly impossible to have strong, uncompromising views and not be a hypocrite.

[Fraggle Underdark]

Were there any misdeeds by the Allies in WWII? Of course there were. Did they intern a bunch of people just because they had Japanese ethnicity? Yep. Was there a lot of suspicion in the US towards German-Americans? There was. (And in WWI it was worse, they were sometimes tarred and feathered and there were public book burnings of German authors.)

 

Did the Allies commit just as many atrocities as the Nazis and the Japanese? Not remotely.

 

False equivalency is a tool of Autocrats and tyrants. You can be a conservative without needing to defend the Autocratic party (who are hardly conservative themselves).

[Guest]

I went from Right-Authoritarian to Left-Libertarian as I grew up and changed my views. The left has issues, in fact as a Libertarian-leaning Socialist (at this point) I would would say that they have many. They still have fewer issues than the Right, in my opinion. You can't talk about politics in absolutes like "good and evil" or "right and wrong", you talk about politics in relative terms like "better or worse".

[PrimeJelly]

38 minutes ago, SocialMorays said:

I won't automatically defend every action of the Democratic party, but I don't see anything within it along the scale of what happened at the capitol last week.

 

I don't particularly understand claims to being "apolitical," since that in and of itself is a political stance.

You are pointing fingers and comparing here. Both sides can have their good and bad moments. Trying to overthrow the government vs anarchists and damaging property are two different things yet they untimely do harm to the people. It doesn't matter to me who did what, I am not defending the Republicans or Democrats for their actions.

 

When I say that I don't have a leaning on either side, I meant it as in my own personal beliefs. My views are just a mix of both parties or sometimes I am neutral about certain topics. It really depends on whatever is being talked about. My political stance moves around and I don't label myself for this reason. If that is a political stance then so be it but I'm not a Democrat or a Republican since I have a fair share of beliefs that both sides would have their own reasons to disagree with. For example, if I voiced my democratic views to a republican then they wouldn't claim me as a republican and vise versa.

[PorcupineOfDoom]

Possibly not my place to weigh in, but from an outside perspective, politics in the US fucking scares me, man. And I say that as a citizen of the country that's become the laughing stock of Europe in the last few years (for multiple reasons). Sadly we seem to be heading more and more in the same direction, but there's a long way to fall before we reach the low point America is at right now. Every issue nowadays is political somehow, even a global bloody pandemic. And rather than sensible discussion, every disagreement devolves into one big shouting match (summed up by the Biden vs Trump 'debates' funnily enough); "radical leftist" this, "Nazi fascist" that, it's honestly hard to believe at times that people genuinely feel so aggreived by the mere idea that someone can think differently to them.

 

Pretty fucking depressing state of affairs when Jonathan Pie - a satirical journalist - has a more rational take on the matter than any actual news source (which imo is half the problem).

Spoiler

 

 

[Morays]

5 minutes ago, PrimeJelly said:

You are pointing fingers and comparing here. Both sides can have their good and bad moments.

Yes, I didn't dispute that. I'm not sure what you mean by pointing fingers, but is comparing not a useful thing to do in the context of discussing politics? I can't pretend parties or actions exist in a vacuum. I also can't pretend that all bad actions are equivalent and the same; just saying "both parties do bad stuff" isn't really a useful declaration in and of itself. Littering and murder are both crimes, but the level of harm caused by them is pretty different.

 

7 minutes ago, PrimeJelly said:

When I say that I don't have a leaning on either side, I meant it as in my own personal beliefs. My views are just a mix of both parties or sometimes I am neutral about certain topics. It really depends on whatever is being talked about. My political stance moves around and I don't label myself for this reason. If that is a political stance then so be it...

Sure, that's fair. I don't object to you not labeling yourself or not claiming a particular party. Politics are complex and should rightfully be treated as such, and we appear to agree on that. What I don't really understand in this discussion (implied in both yours and @Jusey1's posts) is the implication that the hypocrisy of both American parties is equivalent and that both are therefore equally suspect, and that's not really treating politics with complexity, especially at this moment.

 

I'm especially perplexed by Jusey's claim that Democrats are engaging in forms and extents of hypocrisy not engaged in by Republicans. I mean... you don't have to hang out in conservative-leaning spaces long to see otherwise. Plenty of Republicans make sweeping claims about Democrats and are constantly painting them as ignorant and evil. FOX News, OAN, Alex Jones, et al have built entire business models on that practice, and those are no longer fringe sources within a lot of the Republican party. Five minutes on right-leaning Twitter is enough to show the ubiquity of the "Democrats are bad people" rhetoric.

 

So while I won't dispute that the Democratic party and/or leftist circles have plenty of problems, I'm not sure why they're being called out in particular by this thread, when the hypocrisy that's being noted has more to do with broader human nature and how group identities are reinforced than anything else.

 

[Grimalkin]

Well, to address the title first: Yes, of course. No political side, religion, gender, orientation, or culture is free of hypocrites-- humans are hypocrites! I don't think there's a person here who can claim they were never a hypocrite in some small way. 

 

As for claiming all Republicans are bad people-- well. I personally can't stand it, and that's because I grew up as a Republican, hearing Republicans claim all Democrats are bad people. I didn't believe it then, and I don't believe all Republicans are bad people now that I'm more left-leaning. Turns out there's good and bad on both sides, and painting with a broad brush just hurts people. 

[PrimeJelly]

11 minutes ago, SocialMorays said:

So while I won't dispute that the Democratic party and/or leftist circles have plenty of problems, I'm not sure why they're being called out in particular by this thread, when the hypocrisy that's being noted has more to do with broader human nature and how group identities are reinforced than anything else.

 

I also don't know why democrats are being specifically called out since both can have their fair share of toxicity and I agree that anyone can be a hypocrite as that's just human nature and not a political thing lol 

 

I think they brought this topic up since from what they are seeing personally of democrats being all about equality yet don't care for Republicans is the hypocrital part. Though Republicans are also like this with not caring about democrats either but maybe they haven't seen this? Idk I'm not them so I can't be sure of what they do or do not know. All I do know is that both sides hate each other and aren't willing to compromise but that's nothing new.

[Fraggle Underdark]

1 minute ago, PorcupineOfDoom said:

 it's honestly hard to believe at times that people genuinely feel so aggreived by the mere idea that someone can think differently to them.

I see this kind of claim get thrown around which assumes that the anger is simply about thinking differently.

 

We logically have to admit either 1) sometimes people are angry about things that aren't differences of opinion, or 2) all anger at any time is a difference of opinion (for example when someone is angry at a mass shooter who kills their family). Naturally we're not going to go with option 2, so option 1 it is.

 

For a glaring example of why elected "Republicans" are seen as autocratic, take the objection to the vote tallying. Now it's clear that a huge number of Trump supporters are only going to believe the election was fair if Trump tells them it is. We know this both because a massive number of officials in all branches of government and of both parties have already said it's fair, and they don't believe them, and because we've heard from a lot of Trump supporters that they'll only believe it's fair if Trump says it is.

 

We also know that Trump is never going to say the election is fair. Or to be really charitable, maybe there is something that will change his mind, but one more audit isn't going to do it (there have already been a ton of them).

 

So: a huge number of Trump supporters will only believe the election is fair if Trump says it is, and another audit is not going to change Trump's mind. Therefore another audit will do nothing to legitimize the election in the minds of these people who have already been fed so many lies. This discussion of asking for an audit in order to "restore confidence" is transparently false. The only reason the Autocrats signed onto the effort was to get the votes of these conspiracy theorists. It's not to respect them or restore our democracy. Or as Romney put it (who's a Republican with actual principles and backbone), "the best way we can respect these voters is by TELLING THEM THE TRUTH".

Spoiler

 

 

[Fraggle Underdark]

2 minutes ago, PrimeJelly said:

I think they brought this topic up since from what they are seeing personally of democrats being all about equality yet don't care for Republicans is the hypocrital part.

I'm not going to ask whether there are people you don't take seriously, because of course there are. The question is which. I assume you're in support of equality. But that doesn't mean you're going to give just as credence to a serial killer as you will to your next door neighbor. It doesn't mean you're going to stand up just as much for Mr. Rogers as you are for an avowed neo-Nazi.

 

You might say that Democrats and Republicans are the two major parties, they're not just fringe group. Sure, but that doesn't change any of the facts. If one of the major parties was the KKK rather than Republicans, I'm not going to back down from them or treat them the same as the Democrats just because there are a lot of them! That wouldn't make them any less terrible.

[Morays]

4 minutes ago, fragglerock said:

I see this kind of claim get thrown around which assumes that the anger is simply about thinking differently.

 

We logically have to admit either 1) sometimes people are angry about things that aren't differences of opinion, or 2) all anger at any time is a difference of opinion (for example when someone is angry at a mass shooter who kills their family). Naturally we're not going to go with option 2, so option 1 it is.

Yeah, this is another claim that baffles me -- that all anger is made equally. Bullies experience anger towards their victims, and victims experience anger towards their bullies -- is the anger on both sides equivalent? Is the bullying simply a difference of opinion?

 

To be clear, there are a lot of reasonable differences of opinion in politics, and I'm all for discussing those, but there's way more going on here than just that.

[PrimeJelly]

19 minutes ago, fragglerock said:

I'm not going to ask whether there are people you don't take seriously, because of course there are. The question is which.

Not just politically but also we as humanity have done a lot of terribly unjustified things but that doesn't mean I will defend the bad side or ignore the rest of the good. I am not going to hate a group unless their is a valid reason to be hated on as a whole. I won't point at the republican party and say they are all bad people because I bet there are good people in there. I won't blindly hate anyone unless they truly deserve to be hated. I hate those who deserve the hate.

 

Like just because the kkk are Republicans it doesn't mean I will go look at a random rebulican and see them as a supporter of the kkk. I bet a lot of Republicans hate the kkk and other racists. By calling all members of the right a racist, etc. that's just being unreasonable.

[Fraggle Underdark]

10 minutes ago, PrimeJelly said:

Not just politically but also we as humanity have done a lot of terribly unjustified things but that doesn't mean I will defend the bad side or ignore the rest of the good. I am not going to hate a group unless their is a valid reason to be hated on as a whole. I won't point at the republican party and say they are all bad people because I bet there are good people in there. I won't blindly hate anyone unless they truly deserve to be hated. I hate those who deserve the hate.

Okay, but keep in mind that not every Democrat is saying that all Republicans are bad. It would be inappropriate to point at the Democratic party and say they are all hypocrites.

 

Also, the KKK has had a lot of members over the years. I'm sure there's at least one person who honestly didn't have anything against dark-skinned people. Maybe that member was confused about what the KKK was about. Maybe they just joined because their brothers and father were in it. It would be wrong, therefore, to hate the KKK as a group since at least one member at some point has not been terrible.

 

Or consider the Charlottesville rally of white nationalists and anti-Semites, chanting slurs, attacking people, and driving a car into a crowd of peaceful counter-protesters. In all honesty there might have been at least one soul who actually really liked and cared about Americans of different colors and religions, and was just there because they were actually concerned about honest debate being cancelled. Maybe they were on the autistic spectrum (many people are) and didn't realize that the gathering was mostly about hate. Should we refuse to condemn the group therefore, because, as Trump said, "they were some very fine people on both sides"?

[PorcupineOfDoom]

20 minutes ago, fragglerock said:

I see this kind of claim get thrown around which assumes that the anger is simply about thinking differently.

 

We logically have to admit either 1) sometimes people are angry about things that aren't differences of opinion, or 2) all anger at any time is a difference of opinion (for example when someone is angry at a mass shooter who kills their family). Naturally we're not going to go with option 2, so option 1 it is.

 

13 minutes ago, SocialMorays said:

Yeah, this is another claim that baffles me -- that all anger is made equally. Bullies experience anger towards their victims, and victims experience anger towards their bullies -- is the anger on both sides equivalent? Is the bullying simply a difference of opinion?

 

To be clear, there are a lot of reasonable differences of opinion in politics, and I'm all for discussing those, but there's way more going on here than just that.

Fair points, and I'm not meaning to imply that there aren't reasons to get angry about areas of disagreement or that that anger is always the same in both directions, I was mostly speaking in hyperbole. Obviously the way some Trump supporters have acted is embarrassing, and they make not only the sensible members of the Republican party but the entirety of the US look like a bunch of See You Next Tuesdays to everyone watching from outside, which is not acceptable. Trump egging them on is also a bad look, and his continued denial of the results undermimes the whole point of democracy, especially considering he lost the popular vote when he was elected. I'm not disputing any of that whatsoever, and it's rather telling that so many officials resigned in the aftermath.

[Sam Spade]

3 hours ago, Jusey1 said:

A very common moral belief on the Democrat side (though it does exist on Republican side too) is that everyone should have equal rights, treatment, etc. Be it women, races, LGBTQIA, and many more groups...

 

3 hours ago, Jusey1 said:

However, a lot of Democrats who seems to follow these beliefs does not extend to Republican and will automatically label ALL Republicans as bad people

I agree with you, not all Republicans are 'bad people'. All of the Republicans I know believe everyone should have equal rights, they just disagree with democrats over whether racism/sexism/homophobia exist. 

 

However... there's a difference between being female, a POC, LGBTQIA, etc. and being Republican. One of these is a choice. 

 

I'm not saying Democrats aren't hypocritical, but if they judge people on their actions, voting is an action. 

[Morays]

35 minutes ago, Sam Spade said:

However... there's a difference between being female, a POC, LGBTQIA, etc. and being Republican. One of these is a choice. 

 

I'm not saying Democrats aren't hypocritical, but if they judge people on their actions, voting is an action. 

Exactly this.

 

Supporting and upholding basic human rights is one of my core values. The right to dignity, self-determination, and not having to live in fear as a POC and/or a queer person is what I consider a human right. I don't think going out of one's way to embrace, enable, and excuse people in positions of power who espouse hateful rhetoric and blatant falsehood is a human right. That's a conscious choice and one that I do not respect, nor do I think I should be obligated to respect.

[Guest]

We are talking about humans right? Then yes, hypocrites everywhere. Left right up down diagonally. No need to specify a group.

[Karret]

Basic liberals/democrats can be very hypocritical, but the reason people who are more leftist than liberal tend to say all Republicans are bad isn't because on an individual level they're bad people, or that they can't have humanizing aspects to them, it's because the policies and politicians they tend to vote for almost invariably cause harm, whether deliberately or through callous and lazy neglect. My mom voted for Trump both times... she also likes Cruz... and she watches Fox news all the time... but she's nice to us, her family, and helps out my sisters' friends when they needed help.... but she doesn't believe in things that could dramatically improve not just their lives, but the lives of so many people like my sisters' friends who don't have someone like my mom to help or could help them in ways my mom is completely unable to. She doesn't bother to look into any of the claims lefties harp on about, unless it's through the perspective of some corrupt piece of crap like Tucker Carlson, who's been interviewed and there's video proof of him flat out admitting that he votes for the most corrupt candidate and votes deliberately against idealistic people. All she pays attention to is the fear mongering and the twisted half-truths presented by highly biased sources, and it's left her voting for terrible people who cause exponential harm to vulnerable communities and whenever these things are covered by her news sources, the harm is downplayed, like it's just liberals freaking out over nothing... and so she doesn't care. She's actively predisposed to hear a leftist talking point, and immediately defer to some deflection provided to her by corrupt pundits, who want to sellout Americans to line their own pockets. But she's nice to her family and mine and my sisters' friends.

But being nice to individuals won't help fix the deep, structural issues that are fucking America to death. And Republican candidates do MUCH MORE HARM than any good they might purport to do. Democrats aren't really any better, but they're a little better. And the people who support the greater of two evils, even if on an individual level, they are good, are actually contributing to the acceleration of the destruction of America and its values. Wealth inequality is ridiculous - Republicans allow it to continue. Racial minorities get treated worse and have the odds stacked against them in a multitude of ways - Republicans don't lift a finger to make lasting change to help them. The poor are in dire straights - Republicans are fighting against giving them a living wage, or stimulus checks so they don't become homeless. The environment is in the trash and even if we suddenly extremely alter things, it won't totally stop it - Republicans don't care and, just like when it comes to "flattening the curve" to allow for things to remain manageable, they don't want to take any preventative measures because they're backed by billionaire oil tycoons.

Republican individuals can be generally decent people, but their ignorance is really leading America to a more and more desperate situation to the point that I'm basically convinced that unless some drastic changes for the better happen, we're going to see another Civil War or Revolution for real, with massive bloodshed and violence the likes of which America hasn't seen since like the 1860s. And it's the Republicans, through their selfishness and stubbornness, who are driving us off the cliff into this turbulent situation at full speed.

[LeChat]

Well, for me, and others who are part of a minority (e.g. liberal, living in a Republican-majority state), who've lived in a Republican-majority state for decades/most/all of their lives, it does feel tiring and frustrating to constantly read/hear local, conservative's negative opinions and assumptions. It's very scary to, then, fear for your life and worry that you might be attacked (because many conservative talk about owning guns, and I don't have any), always hearing how conservatives won't like you just because you weren't born in the same state or part of the country.

 

Obviously, Republican/conservative people do and would feel safe, living amongst a majority Republican/conservative; I've seen locals feel perfectly comfortable and happy, chatting with others who are also conservative. Obviously, that's great for them, but not so great for others who are from other places, who are LGBT+, etc.

 

Apparently, with this whole Capital breach thing, younger, teenage me was right to fear for my life and to not openly show or speak to any locals about myself, my beliefs, etc., living in a Republican-majority state.

 

The differences? Other states and cities I lived in didn't have only conservatives/Republicans writing prejudiced, blaming op-ed in the state newspaper; there were different opinions printing in the state newspapers, and even newspaper editors would, sometimes, chime in with a different opinion.

 

So, yeah; it really scared me as a teen, with my family moving to a new state in the south, to suddenly read a whole bunch of opinions, only from conservative Republicans--week after week--about how much they don't like people like me or my family, just because we weren't born in that southern state, weren't conservative, religious, etc., blaming Northerners/liberals for "taking our jobs" when that's not true at all--most of the population is still southern and conservative, so liberals haven't "taken over" the state at all.

 

It's very wrong, in my opinion, for local southerners to blame a family moving from another part of the country to that state because it was the only job that was given/could be found.

 

I'm outnumbered where I live: I don't own any guns, (I've never felt I could harm others with one, even to protect myself, and so, I find it very scary and alarming that other humans are calmly okay with owning a gun to shoot at another person, as though they might mistake someone doing something innocent for something threatening); there are so few liberals, here; I don't feel safe to even talk to people, here, because I'm worried that they'll just be rude, or worse, threatened, by me not being a conservative or southerner (I've overheard them talk to other southerners about how they don't like LGBT+ books being taught in their kid's classes); local, Christian churches in my town that put up signs of "You don't know Christmas, if you don't know Jesus" and "If you don't believe in God, you believe in Satan" don't seem to care that they might sound very offensive/insulting toward people of other religions or atheists, as though their religion is the only one, the "correct" one, that matters.

 

Even though I make sure not to wear anything LGBT+ or speak, to reveal my accent--which isn't southern--I'm still, occasionally, harassed by locals (who don't care), shouted, sworn at, honked at, etc. for cycling, walking on a crosswalk, not doing anything wrong or illegal, but being blamed, with locals being pissed off that I'm legally using a crosswalk, cycling on the road, etc. Being laughed at for others thinking I appeared to be "gay," and "trans," in stores, as a teen really didn't help me feel welcome, here, either.

 

I have to constantly deal with all these reminders from locals, church signs, etc. that I'm not welcome, here, that others believe I'm not a "good person" like them, for not believing in a religion, for being liberal, etc., almost as though "second class."

 

Just because someone from a very small, group of liberals in their area/state is expressing frustration at being part of a very small group that is maligned, locally, by majority of conservatives/Republicans, politicians, etc, and how no one seems to care, doesn't mean that they're saying that "all liberals are great/perfect, etc." I've never lived or grew up in a majority liberal state, area, etc., so I don't really know how their behavior is, whether or not they write threatening/prejudiced messages about conservatives.

 

A couple of my relatives have changed their political beliefs and become conservative and are now supportive of Trump and other Republican politicians and only listen to whatever they say; it feels frustrating and as though they've become brainwashed by hearing local conservatives/Republicans, etc. constantly disparage liberals over the years: they have stated that they now don't care about minorities, black, Latino (one relative thinks they're all "illegal immigrants," etc. My relatives used to care more about others, and now they don't; it's upsetting.

 

It's not my fault that I don't want to be/can't be friends with others who've expressed that they don't like people like me, for being atheist, supportive of LGBT+, etc. I've seen some locals smile and act friendly toward other locals, only to disparage them behind their back, to their other friends; I don't want or need "friends" like that, who'll only pretend to my face that they're nice or okay with me being different from them when, deep down, they aren't.

 

If I'd grown up reading Republicans say they supported LGBT+ people, atheists, etc., obviously, that would've helped let me know that there were supportive conservatives, Republicans, etc., but I didn't come across that in the state's newspaper, T.V., etc. or when in public places. The whole area and conservative politicians just like to constantly blame everything on liberals, democrats, black people, etc. even though there aren't many, here, at all and aren't the ones with any power or say in the majority Republican state.

[Cimmerian]

You're not alone in what you see. I've seen hypocrites on both side, but I can say I see more of that wide-spread demonization mentality from the left than the right in general and it has definitely gotten worse in the last decade or so. In person, I imagine some of that varies by area; I know there are areas where that would still be prevalent among Republicans, and it's strong among both sides in social media (but I suppose what did we expect between insulated feeds, news networks and reports always having an opinion rather than facts, etc.)

 

My personal experience has aligned a lot with yours however, and I've always run into a lot more tolerance, willingness to discuss different viewpoints/stances, and consistency in behavior among Republicans than I have with many Democrats. I'm bi, vary between non-religious to anti-religion (which was a major sticking point with my family), and have long disagreed with the republican stance on several hot-button social issues like abortion. Despite heated disagreements, completely opposite stances on several issues, being LGBT, and religiously heretical (many things which should make me "bad" under standard assumptions) - the vast majority of the conversations I can recall have been calm and respectful. On the other hand, I have more memories than I would like of being yelled at, harassed, called all sorts of names, being told how I should think because I'm part of my gender or group status, and even being threatened by some Democrats. Holding any Republican opinion or claiming any Republican association or a doubt about a Democrat candidate has been enough to cause this in several cases, which seemed antithetical to what the party, and the individuals I talked to, claimed to stand for.

 

So sure, your opinion has validity to it.

Then there's just the personal challenge of trying not to let the many we see/experience characterize the whole when we think of them, or else we risk falling into the same error of judgement. 🤔

[Fraggle Underdark]

1 minute ago, Cimmerian said:

On the other hand, I have more memories than I would like of being yelled at, harassed, called all sorts of names, being told how I should think because I'm part of my gender or group status, and even being threatened by some Democrats. Holding any Republican opinion or claiming any Republican association or a doubt about a Democrat candidate has been enough to cause this in several cases, which seemed antithetical to what the party, and the individuals I talked to, claimed to stand for.

At the current moment in the nation I see "Republican" officials as a serious threat to the safety and continuity of democracy.

 

But I agree that some people on the left are extremely intolerant, I've always hated that. It's like they don't realize that it's possible to be exclusive and authoritarian just because they support civil rights etc. People like that don't seem to even consider the idea that their power (social or otherwise) could be abused or that they're strictly enforcing conformity. Because "they're the good guys". I consider these people to be walking promoters of the Republican party: "want to be listened to and treated like a person? Want to be able to question dogmas? Try the Republican party, you won't get it here!"

 

That said I have zero support for the moving goalposts and doublethink that defines a broad swath of Autocratic "dialogue" right now, like "any disagreement with me whatsoever just means that you're close minded." Which of course is the same thing just reversed. It's more dangerous at the moment because it's being used to support and defend literal terrorism and the overthrow of democracy. Rather than just being an asshole and pushing people towards the Republicans.

 

But yeah there's this particular feel to the dogmatic assholes on the left. At least the dogmatic assholes on the right know they're authoritarian and work that into their identity in some way, while the authoritarians on the left will insult you for even suggesting it.

[Alaska Native Manitou]

It's funny how some people insist on confusing the Democratic party with the left.  Gore Vidal said:

Quote

 

“There is only one party in the United States, the Property Party … and it has two right wings: Republican and Democrat.”

According to the Political Compass the only Democratic candidates (barely) left-of-center in 2020 were Sanders, Mike Gravel & Tulsi Gabbard.  (Gabbard hid her hatred of transgender & non-binary people.)  https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020  The party's leadership makes sure that progressives can't win.  https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/ct-dnc-sanders-glanton-talk-20160725-column.html

 

As a minority I generally consider the Democrats more of a threat.  They pretend to be on our side until they betray us.  Bill Clinton put a generation in prison while Hillary called us "superpredators."  No one has ever deported people as eagerly as Obama did.

 

But right now the Republicans are terrifying.  I don't mean last week.  In the last few years Trump has managed to drag the entire party into the swamp with him.  You can't even have a conversation with them anymore.  

Spoiler

 

[Fraggle Underdark]

37 minutes ago, 2SpiritCherokeePrincess said:

 The party's leadership makes sure that progressives can't win.

We really need more election reforms like ranked choice voting, so that people don't waste their time fighting about the fear of splitting the vote. Then you can have very progressive candidates run with more moderate ones, as joint allies against any anti-democratic candidates, and the voters can decide how progressive they want their policies without being limited to just 2 choices.

[Calligraphette_Coe]

It seems to me that the limus test is self-interest and how far someone is able to use righteous lies to further the benefits they'll get paid off with and how much they can resist and not hoist the Jolly Rodger just because no on is watching. 

 

Trump's pursuit of his self interest vs foregoing taking an easy shot was a consistently predictable as gravity--if you drop a rock from a height above the ground, you knew what the inevitable outcome would be. The opposite would be someone who wrould refuse to drop rocks and throw stones out of a sincere desire to see the Greater Good triumph over the easy, wide road of insincere cheap shots that lacked empathy for the Greater Good and only served to ingratiate when those cheap shots were a pig in a $300 suit and the greater good, cheap material.

[daveb]

Are there some hypocrites on the left or in the Democratic party? I'm sure there are. Are they worse than ones on the right or in the Republican party? I'm sure that varies, too. At this time in US history there is an autocratic side that is the real danger, and most of them happen to be Republican in name if nothing else. There are also many such autocrats in leadership positions and in federal office at least who are demonstrably and massively hypocritical. To me it feels like a bit of "what-aboutism" to focus on hypocrisy among either "the left" (as if that is some monolithic single entity) or Democrats at this time.