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Do people actually "feel" like their gender?


Neocaridina

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I am biologically female, and also identify as female. However, I don't "feel" female. I don't feel a connection to that label. Like when I fill out a survey and they ask about gender I tick the female box because that's what I look like and it's good enough I guess. But I always feel a bit weird about it, like I'm giving people an inaccurate idea of what I really am. When I think about women I don't really think of it as a group that I belong to, at least until I remind myself that I am in fact one of "those people".

And this has been going on basically ever since I hit puberty, sometimes more, sometimes less (I'm 22 now). When I was 12-13 I would feel bad when someone would say that I'm a girl. When I was 13 I got a short haircut and was called a boy once and it felt great. Every now and then I would feel like my female physical characteristics are "wrong" somehow. For a long time I felt uncomfortable in clothing that I deemed "too feminine" (that has changed a bit now). I didn't and don't wear makeup and the thought of doing it seems really "off". I went to an all-girls school from age 11 to 19, and while I didn't mind it too much I always felt a bit out of place and like I was different from everyone else (but I basically didn't know any boys my age during that time, so I didn't know if I would have felt better among them). I could go on. So every now and then I would start questioning my gender, going so far as to identify as non-binary or trans for a short time, but I never really got anywhere. Eventually I would always come to the conclusion that I am a girl, I just feel like I am not a girl because I mostly tend to like more stereotypically masculine things, so I don't fit society's idea of what a girl is. I figured that gender doesn't mean anything, it's just a box to tick and I can be whoever I want to be. I also attributed my feelings to mainly having male role models due to my interests.

But this thing is still in the back of my mind. I often think that if I had had the choice before I was born, I would have preferred to have been born male. If I somehow turned male overnight I would probably not mind it at all, and I might even be somewhat relieved. But I just tell myself that I need to grow up and accept the fact that I am female. I try to get myself to see being female as a positive thing, and as something that I want to be, and it has helped to some extent.

Whenever I read about people's gender identities I often see things like "I feel like I'm xyz" or "my gender can be described as abc". So that implies that for those people, at least, gender isn't just a tick box, they actually strongly identify with it. And I most certainly don't feel that way about being female. So I wonder whether I'm just deluding myself by holding on to the idea that I'm female. Maybe I'm actually non-binary. And I wonder what the point of identifying as non-binary would even be for me. It feels a bit weird to be called "she", but people don't often talk about me in third person while I'm around anyway. It feels a bit weird to have a female body sometimes, but I don't think I would want to transition because I do like my body for what it is, with it's feminine aspects. So yeah, I just don't know what to make of all this. Is it unusual that I don't feel female, that being female just seems like something that I have to deal with?

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Nah I don't have a clue what "feeling" female would be like. I'm just a woman because I was born female and have no reason to identify as anything else. I figure non-binary people must have something which makes them uncomfortable enough with their default gender to go through all the hassle of identifying as something else.

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17 minutes ago, theV0ID said:

Nah I don't have a clue what "feeling" female would be like. I'm just a woman because I was born female and have no reason to identify as anything else. I figure non-binary people must have something which makes them uncomfortable enough with their default gender to go through all the hassle of identifying as something else.

They have. I think the most common first clue would be self-hatred (although that can be a symptom caused by *many* sources). And then you slowly start to claim a label, and more and more feeling comfortable about who you become.

33 minutes ago, Neocaridina said:

when I fill out a survey and they ask about gender I tick the female box

I also still tick the male box, just because it is easier, because I don't have to justify myself, but I get more and more reluctant and more often tick the diverse box (if there is one). I always got along better with women than men my age and had really internalized an unhealthy hate against males in general. Hair plays a big role I think. I really love the feeling of long hair as long as it is in a practical cut. And I think that because places like Aven exist, where you can inform yourself about labels and discuss them, it becomes less and less unusual for people to identify differently than the default "cis/hetero".

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QuasiSquirrel

I'm very much like you in how I perceive my assigned sex (male), the masculine aspects of my body can actually trigger episodes of dysphoria for me, tho. I always (until recently) identified as male because I was always told by others that men have penises. And that's it. That was the only thing that made me a male. I don't even like the thing and would often wish it was gone 😖If I reincarnated I would also press the opposite gender button without thinking about it. Life always felt a bit fake, as well...

These are some articles about gender dysphoria and most of them hit very close to home for me (these are from the perspective of a transfemme person):

Twitter thread

Gender Dysphoria Isn’t What You Think | by Cassie LaBelle | Medium

 

Maybe do a week or two long trial run of people calling you he/him or they/them, see how you feel about it?

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3 hours ago, theV0ID said:

Nah I don't have a clue what "feeling" female would be like. I'm just a woman because I was born female and have no reason to identify as anything else. I figure non-binary people must have something which makes them uncomfortable enough with their default gender to go through all the hassle of identifying as something else.

This is very much how I feel about myself. I'm a woman, and that's... fine. I participate in several of the stereotypes, but also don't fit into some of the others. I've never felt dysphoric or euphoric about it-- it's just how I am. 

 

I've never wanted to be a man, but I also don't know if I would care so much if I suddenly was one. (Maybe I would eat my own words quickly by developing sudden dysphoria-- who knows!)

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MagnusTheWarlock

I'm trans as far as I know (afab) but I don't really know that I fit a specific gender. I also don't really "feel" my gender and for a long time that was really confusing for me. Honestly I gave up on "feeling" like a gender and now I just do whatever i like best. There are things that I really hate about my body and the social aspects of being perceived as female as of now. However I feel like if/when i transition there may still be things I don't like. So I'm just taking it as it comes. I never felt like a girl, but I don't really feel like a boy either. I'm just me, and that's ok. I'm going to be the best me that I can 😛 

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4 hours ago, FJO8 said:

I think the most common first clue would be self-hatred (although that can be a symptom caused by *many* sources)

If you want to educate yourself further on gender-dysphoria, this article is really interesting

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I relate to quite a bit of this. I don’t care that much that people consider me a girl, and I mostly prefer to be perceived as a girl than anything else. But on an internal level, I don’t quite identify as my AGAB anymore. There’s a tiny sliver of me that wants to be female (whatever being female means), which prevents me from embracing the agender label fully even though I relate to it quite a bit. Most of me is fine with presenting as female and being treated as such, but at the same time a little part of me thinks I might like binding, and gender neutral pronouns could be cool (heck, not using any pronouns at all almost sounds ideal), and that shortening my name to just the first letter would be awesome. But none of those changes are necessary per se, I don’t have strong dysphoria in urgent need of relieving ... So I might experiment one day in the future but I’m not ready to open up to someone about these thoughts irl yet.

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I don't really know what to compare to as far as "feeling" like one gender or another. I am biologically female and fine with that, though I don't tend to follow gender stereotypes and sometimes depending on how I dress, etc, some people have mistaken me for male.  I don't really care either way, honestly. I'm just "me", whatever that is! 

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On 1/8/2021 at 12:34 PM, FJO8 said:

They have. I think the most common first clue would be self-hatred (although that can be a symptom caused by *many* sources). And then you slowly start to claim a label, and more and more feeling comfortable about who you become.

I also still tick the male box, just because it is easier, because I don't have to justify myself, but I get more and more reluctant and more often tick the diverse box (if there is one). I always got along better with women than men my age and had really internalized an unhealthy hate against males in general. Hair plays a big role I think. I really love the feeling of long hair as long as it is in a practical cut. And I think that because places like Aven exist, where you can inform yourself about labels and discuss them, it becomes less and less unusual for people to identify differently than the default "cis/hetero".

Okay so I initially got very mad at your framing of being tramsgender as self-hatred and it clearly sounded like a bigot pushing their uninformed prejudiced BS. But I think you have internalized transphobia after reading all of the post - it’s okay to be different, don’t let this narrative coined by fundamentalists and TERFs get to you and do what makes you feel better about yourself, be it identifying as nonbinary or presenting as such all the way. What you called self-hatred is gender dysphoria and it goes away once you’re more in tune with yourself. It has nothing to do with you, it has to do with gender expression and presentation that is inadequate for some people and with society not recognising that sort of needs as valid. 

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1 hour ago, Emery. said:

What you called self-hatred is gender dysphoria and it goes away once you’re more in tune with yourself.

I know, and I think you did not quite get my point: I did say 'being trans equals self-hate' , my point was that it may be on of the first clues that one may be trans. Also:

 

22 hours ago, FJO8 said:

If you want to educate yourself further on gender-dysphoria, this article is really interesting

Please don't call me a transphobe, I try to be as understanding and open as I can as I can relate a lot and am currently trans-questioning.

The problem with discussing gender is that it is such a personal experience and quickly leads to heated debates due to the feelings attached to it.

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Janus the Fox

I’ve read a few texts on this, where gender isn’t a feeling but a lot more than that, like a sense of being, internal characteristics etc.  It’s often socially or culturally defined and the internal difference may not match a persons society or culture.

 

Personally it’s a mystery to me, giving myself no sense of gender beyond the physical internal difference.

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For me, I don’t particularly feel like a gender. I act act and dress in a way that is “feminine” enough to be considered a girl (though I’m not really that feminine) and I don’t mind that other people view me as one. I feel weird if I think of myself in a male body. But I don’t really have anything in my head saying that I’m definitely a girl, that feels right. I’m not sure I’m the best person to ask about this, though, since I feel like I’m lying as well when I put down she/her on things, but that’s probably just me overthinking everything.

 

One thing you did mention was: “When I was 13 I got a short haircut and was called a boy once and it felt great.” If being called a boy made you feel good, then it might help if you tried it. I think there’s somewhere called the “pronoun dressing room” or something like that which could help you figure out whether you’d prefer to be described that way.

 

You also said “But I just tell myself that I need to grow up and accept the fact that I am female.” It’s perfectly fine to be wondering about your gender identity. If thinking about yourself as female feels wrong, you don’t need to “grow up” — part of accepting yourself is realizing who you are, not resigning yourself to being considered someone you don’t feel like.

 

I know that when some people discover or think about themselves as their gender, they have a euphoric feeling, like everything seems right about it. And some people think about them being considered the biological sex they were born into as their gender and feel like it’s just wrong and not them. I don’t really feel either other than when I’m overthinking pronouns, but it seems like you might be feeling some of both.

 

TL;DR: In the end, I think you should go with whatever you feel comfortable with. If defining yourself as female feels good, do that. If it feels like a chore and something you need to do to “grow up,” then maybe you should try out something different and figure out if it at least feels neutral. Gender means different things to each person. For me, it’s “I don’t mind introducing myself as this and being considered as it, so I guess it’s okay.” But for others it might be an integral part of how they see themselves.

 
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On 1/8/2021 at 12:44 PM, QuasiSquirrel said:

These are some articles about gender dysphoria and most of them hit very close to home for me (these are from the perspective of a transfemme person):

 

On 1/8/2021 at 5:36 PM, FJO8 said:

If you want to educate yourself further on gender-dysphoria, this article is really interesting

I definitely relate to some of the points mentioned there, though not all of them, so it might not be dysphoria but something else.

 

12 hours ago, Janus DarkFox said:

I’ve read a few texts on this, where gender isn’t a feeling but a lot more than that, like a sense of being, internal characteristics etc.

Could you share some examples of these texts? I also just find it interesting from a theoretical point of view that apparently there are many people that have a "feeling"/sense of gender, but also quite a few people that don't.

 

5 hours ago, GalaxyOwl said:

If being called a boy made you feel good, then it might help if you tried it.

I should have mentioned that sometimes (though rarely) it also feels good to be called female - but only when one particular person does it (otherwise it feels a bit weird and "off" but definitely tolerable).

 

5 hours ago, GalaxyOwl said:

If thinking about yourself as female feels wrong, you don’t need to “grow up” — part of accepting yourself is realizing who you are, not resigning yourself to being considered someone you don’t feel like.

That's true; I guess with "needing to grow up" I also mean that I wonder if I'm not overthinking all of this, and I feel like maybe I should just let it rest and just go with the easiest option.

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I forget that I have a gender. I don't really view context of situations in gender. Though I tend to be very into making up new roles and characters to fit in. So I guess always putting on a new act would dissociate me from what gender is. 

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Blue eyes white dragon

I'm a biological female but I really dont identify with a gender. I don't mind being female for the most part but I don't like being a girl. I get upset when people try to make me girlish and when they label certain things for girls. Like its literally a thing, why does it need to classified as anything and why do I need to fit that label??? I also dont identify as a guy either. I like more of the "guy things" but they are just things. Many things are part of my identity but gender is not one.

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I don't think there's any sort of magical 'gender sense' that people have, and if there is, clearly I and many other people seem to lack it. I think I've made the same assumption with gender that I did about my mental health, that if there was anything I needed to address it would just be so painfully obvious that I would 'know,' like there would be some big sign or something. I've had to accept that gender just isn't something I'm going to understand, and I'm trying to be ok with that. It's not easy for me because I'm one of those 'i have to have a label for everything' kind of people, but often things aren't as clear as I want them to be. There's also the problem of me freaking out every now and then that I'm 'changing everything' or something like that by identifying differently, but in the end I think the fact that sometimes I feel like I want to be one gender and other times I'm fine being another means I'm not completely cis. Still, my dysphoria is generally pretty mild, so I don't think I would have much trouble trying to pass as a cis guy forever...I think it's more that I wouldn't know what I'm missing out on.

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Calligraphette_Coe
Quote

What is the difference between = (Assignment) and == (Equal to) operators. The “=” is an assignment operator is used to assign the value on the right to the variable on the left. The '==' operator checks whether the two given operands are equal or not.

Anyone who has ever programmed in C knows the above, and I think gender vs feeling is a little like this. There's also a third operator, = = =, which is the identical operator and a fourth with a tilde above the = which denotes congruency. There are non-obvious reasons for all of these constructs, whereas something like 'feel' is often subjective/ incomplete/ in precise even while being obvous.

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verily-forsooth-egads

Everything you described sounds like textbook dysphoria to me, even if it's mild. You play the game with the hand you're dealt, but it feels weird and not quite you somehow? That's gender dysphoria.

 

Deciding you don't identify with the gender you were assigned doesn't have to mark a momentous turning point in your life. You don't have to transition, you don't have to change anything about yourself, you don't even have to change your pronouns or come out to people if you don't want to. It just means when incidents like the ones you described happen, you understand where your discomfort is coming from, and you know a bunch of people on the internet who can relate and might have even figured out a way around it.

 

I'm a lot like you. I'm not female, but it's not worth it to me to singlehandedly dismantle the institution of gender and challenge the political convictions of every person I come across. So I volunteer they/them pronouns when it's appropriate and accept people's assumptions the rest of the time, as long as they don't make me actively uncomfortable. Everyone has a different discomfort threshold. It's all a big balancing act between what we want and what other people expect. Find what works for you, and maybe that's shutting up and nodding along 100% of the time, or maybe you decide down the road that you'd really like to pass as a boy—nobody can decide that but you.

 

Hope I've given you some food for thought. Good luck with your labels (but don't sweat them too much).

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7 hours ago, verily-forsooth-egads said:

Find what works for you, and maybe that's shutting up and nodding along 100% of the time, or maybe you decide down the road that you'd really like to pass as a boy—nobody can decide that but you.

Thanks, this really gives me a different perspective on this whole issue.

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knittinghistorian

I feel the same way.  I'm not even sure what "feeling like a female" would mean exactly.  I like pretty sundresses and also oversized t-shirts.  I hate not being able to go for a run outside in the middle of the night.  I like to knit.  I like to turn wood and do pottery.  I'd learn to weld if the opportunity arose.  I like well-done rom-coms, but I also like movies with swords or lots of explosions.  I can be nurturing, and I can also be aggressive.  I don't know; mainly I just feel like me.  I think if I were just a brain in a jar, I probably wouldn't have any particular gender feelings, but I don't feel dysphoric either. (I used to hate my breasts, but I realize now that was mostly because they are so sexualized, and I am asexual, not because I'm dysphoric about them inherently.  I loathe periods with a passion, but who wouldn't?)

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I'm biologically male, and I "feel" male, but Its not an important part of my identity.     I'm not at all unhappy with being male, but I would not be unhappy with being female either
 

I find this interesting because clearly gender is vitally important so some people, but doesn't matter that much to others.  

 

 

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On 1/8/2021 at 6:07 AM, theV0ID said:

I figure non-binary people must have something which makes them uncomfortable enough with their default gender to go through all the hassle of identifying as something else.

well, youre right in a way....
but idk

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  • 4 weeks later...
VeryAsexyIndeed

I’m not sure what feeling female or non-binary or anything else would be but for me at least I think I do?? I think of myself as a girl, and it feels right, like this is me, and I think of myself as non-binary and it also feels right, like it’s me. I don’t get that feeling if I were to think “I am a man” that would feel totally wrong so I guess I feel like my gender? Idk there’s not much more than that for me at least, apart from minor dysphoria problems that I guess makes me “feel like my gender” or something💖✌️😅🌈

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I don't "feel" like my gender either, but I don't know if that even matters, since I don't feel like a different gender. I don't feel unhappy as a male, so I assumed that means I'm cis. But I don't feel strongly about it. (I don't like being around super-masculine males, but that's a different issue).

 

I remember two different girlfriends I have had that liked putting makeup on me and brushing out my hair and making long braids, and I loved it! But it may have just been I liked being fussed over, or maybe something more. I went though a phase there where I dressed kind of like a female, and @DGT thought I should try whatever I felt like trying out. Then I kind of stopped doing that (compared to just jeans and a t-shirt, stomping around the ranch in a dress, with my favorite steel-toe boots, is not the best thing to be wearing anyway. 😀 I like my thick denim skirt though (except in the tall weeds)

 

So there is agender (feeling no gender), NB (gender other than male or female, or a combination?), and is there a term for not feeling a gender very strongly? Or is that what most people feel about gender?

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I just wanted to mention, my mum has even spoken in a similar way to you! She doesn't particularly care about her fashion choices, and literally wears a t-shirt, jeans, and sometimes a jacket, with the same black trainers every day. She generally doesn't participate in many 'female' stereotypes and doesn't feel the need to. But at the same time, she said she doesn't mind and assigning the label 'non-binary' or even 'trans', would be going a bit too far. Female is just what she was born as, it doesn't really mean much to her, but she accepts it either way.

 

I, on the other hand, absolutely love being as feminine as possible! I'm almost the exact opposite as my mum. Just to give a different perspective, I love my body and its feminine qualities, and having everything in my room be pink, cute pop songs, and a very girly wardrobe. 100% down my ally. 

This is not to downplay your experience, but there are definitely people like me who 'feel' like their gender.

I would count myself lucky that I've never questioned my gender, although I am finding romantic/platonic/sexual attraction very confusing at the moment and I'm still sort of figuring that stuff out.

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I don’t know if I feel like a certain gender (female, demigirl, etc.) but I just know that I am comfortable with and would prefer the use of both my current pronouns. Its not a big quarrel with me of dysphoria but I don’t doubt myself into thinking that because I don’t experience dysphoria that I shouldn’t use the pronouns I like.

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Biologically male here, rather ambivalent about it. Often times it feels like that alone is enough to make me about as desirable to females as poison oak, and I'm not nearly masculine enough to relate to the more "manly men".

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