School uniforms

[Celyn: The Lutening]

As a teacher it's just another thing we have to police. It doesn't reduce bullying because kids from struggling families will have hand-me downs/second-hand//torn etc. uniform. They're always ugly, cold, and bad quality.

A clear and restrictive dress code (like, idk, teachers and sixth-form already have) would be better.

The only value I can see in school uniform is for when they go one trips or represent the school at some event and you can quickly find them, do head counts and know where they belong.

[Acing It]

22 minutes ago, Celyn: The Lutening said:

As a teacher it's just another thing we have to police. It doesn't reduce bullying because kids from struggling families will have hand-me downs/second-hand//torn etc. uniform. They're always ugly, cold, and bad quality.

I once saw a poor kid waiting for the bus amongst other students of the same school. He must have been 12-ish or so, and the sleeves of his blazer were so long his arms looked like a penguin's flippers. I felt for the poor sod. He must have been bullied because of it for sure.

The other end of the spectrum: I worked in a boys' school once where the school uniform was a full suit and tie. I mean an adult suit. It was a very snobbish and expensive secondary school. That didn't agree with me at all either.

I've never worn a school uniform when I was at school and there was a fair amount of label snobbery going on. On the other hand, school uniforms can look really scruffy, especially if they're hand me downs.

[daveb]

Might help somewhat if there were standard uniforms issued by the school, so no need for people to wear hand-me-downs, and everyone would be wearing the same quality of clothing. Personally though I'm not a fan of uniforms (I'd probably be envying the girl's uniforms). We did have to wear standard clothes for phys. ed. when I was in school, purchased by each family from various local stores. I didn't like PE anyway, so that didn't help.

[Celyn: The Lutening]

While you've mentioned PE, WTF is with UK schools (not all but like, a lot) segregating PE classes by sex?

Do they do that in other countries? Australia never does.

[daveb]

2 minutes ago, Celyn: The Lutening said:

While you've mentioned PE, WTF is with UK schools (not all but like, a lot) segregating PE classes by sex?

Do they do that in other countries? Australia never does.

The US did it when I was a kid (in the 60s/70s). We had one week each year where they went coed and we played softball.

[fuzzipueo]

1. Who are you (student, teacher, third party):

     Third party, who, like everyone else, has been a student in the past

 

2. What would you like about school uniforms:

    Nothing. The idea of wearing the exact same type of clothing as everyone else has very little appeal.

 

3. What would you not like about school uniforms:

    They look uncomfortable, and I always end up feeling bad for the girls who have to wear skirts/dresses in the winter while the boys get to wear slacks/pants. We have several Catholic schools in the area, and though the patterns differ, the kids all look basically the same.

     As for some of the local public schools (as opposed to private schools), the rules around uniforms seem to be based on common sense - khaki pants/shorts and a polo shirt of whatever color. Durable clothing kids can play in and the girls don't have to wear skirts if they don't want to. The prices on such clothes are generally pretty low.

    Personally, I'm glad I never had to wear a uniform, unless it was for a job.

 

4. What is your preference, School uniform yes or no?

     No.

[fuzzipueo]

37 minutes ago, Celyn: The Lutening said:

While you've mentioned PE, WTF is with UK schools (not all but like, a lot) segregating PE classes by sex?

Do they do that in other countries? Australia never does.

 

34 minutes ago, daveb said:

The US did it when I was a kid (in the 60s/70s). We had one week each year where they went coed and we played softball.

By the time we get to the 80s, PE was co-ed and the only time they separated us was to discuss biological processes (sex ed).

[Celyn: The Lutening]

10 minutes ago, fuzzipueo said:

 

By the time we get to the 80s, PE was co-ed and the only time they separated us was to discuss biological processes (sex ed).

Even that was co-ed in Australia

[Raindrops]

I had a rather formal school uniform when I was a student. I much prefer having a uniform, then you're not comparing your clothes to everyone else. 😶

[Acing It]

On 12/4/2020 at 9:53 PM, Celyn: The Lutening said:

While you've mentioned PE, WTF is with UK schools (not all but like, a lot) segregating PE classes by sex?

Do they do that in other countries? Australia never does.

I know that a lot of them also divide it up by sex because girls play 'girl's sports' like netball etc... and boys play 'boys sports' like rugby (don't get me going!). I think part of it is to prevent trouble with parents etc...

[_Neon_]

1. Who are you(student, teacher, third party)

 

Student

 

2. What would you like about school uniforms

 

Less thought in the morning - but only in theory. Also less opportunities to needlessly sexualize random body parts in the dress code.

 

3. What would you not like about school uniforms

 

I had one for all of middle school and it was so freaking stressful. You got detention if you weren't wearing a belt (or if it was the wrong color), part or all of your shirt wasn't tucked in, your heels were > .5in (or if they were the wrong color), your pants were too loose/tight, your skirt was more than 1 inch above your knees. I had multiple breakdowns over forgetting a belt because I was terrified I would get in trouble. (To be fair, that school made me cry over just about everything so the uniform wasn't unique in that)

 

Also, it was really expensive. Dress shoes and pants cost a lot, especially women's, and especially during the time where everyone is having major growth spurts.

 

4. What is your preference, School uniform yes or no?

 

No. Never again.

[Obsessed_With_Dragons]

On 11/23/2020 at 10:45 AM, Tarelenion said:

So, what do you think about school uniforms?

 

If you have to much time and no hobby, please reply:

 

1. Who are you(student, teacher, third party)

Student, but I have taken all of my classes online for a very long time.

2. What would you like about school uniforms

They discourage judgement based on the amount and quality of clothing. This can help students get judged on the basis of their personality, not what outfit they are wearing.

3. What would you not like about school uniforms

They can present many challenges to transgender and gender nonconforming students. Even when uniforms are not specifically gendered, the gender of the uniform is often implied. This can make it harder for transgender students who are in the closet transition to more comfortable clothing. In addition, there are rarely options for gender-neutral clothing, which is often challenging for nonbinary students.

In addition, personal expression though clothing can make it easier for students to feel accepted and find a community. Expression of both political beliefs and personal interests through clothing can help students find like-minded people without disturbing school days. This can be especially helpful for shyer students, as seeing a student more open about their interests/beliefs can help the student gain confidence.

Lastly, they can provide a major hurdle for impoverished families. School uniforms are often extremely pricy, which can result in these families struggling to cover the costs. Although uniforms can help fund the school, this responsibility should not be placed on families who do not have the means to afford it.

4. What is your preference, School uniform yes or no?

No, definitely not.

 

[Ortac]

I really struggle to come down on either side of the school uniform question because I can see the pros and cons of having uniforms and not having them.

 

School uniforms have not been a thing in France for many years now. Schools used to have them back in the 1950s, but they were abolished in state schools and have not existed during my lifetime.

 

I personally think that the clothes in which many kids and teenagers turn up to school are appalling because they look so scruffy; in many instances there seems to be no effort whatsoever to look even the slightest bit smart.

 

Curiously, I have heard of occurrences where groups of French school pupils have gone to England on school trips, and they have seen groups of English school kids in their smart blazers and ties and been quite jealous of it. They’ve remarked to their teachers “That looks really good, why can’t we have that?”

 

On the flip side of that however, I vehemently disapprove of the way some schools in places like England are so overly strict and dictatorial about their uniform policy, and dish out ridiculously over the top punishments for such minor infractions, such as sending a pupil home because they turned up wearing very dark brown shoes instead of black, or navy blue socks instead of grey. It's two opposite ends of an extreme and neither are good in my opinion.

 

I also intensely disapprove of the way many schools are dictatorial about a pupil’s appearance beyond the uniform, such as how they have their hair. I don’t think that schools should have any right whatsoever to impose restrictions and demands on a pupil’s hairstyle. In the case of clothes and uniforms, you can change into something else when you are not at school, but if a school imposes demands that their pupils are restricted to certain types of hairstyle and some types are not allowed, they are stuck with the hairstyle demanded by the school at all times, even when they are not at school. I don’t think that is reasonable. I appreciate that there are certain jobs working with food which impose restrictions on hairstyles, but that is different as far as I am concerned. There is a valid hygiene reason for it, and people can choose what job they work in; pupils have no choice over whether they go to school.

 

So on balance, I think I would advocate a situation in schools which is similar to a formal office work environment, one where a dress code exists prohibiting certain types of inappropriate clothing, and which requires students to wear certain types of clothes and to look smart, but not an actual uniform.

 

 

 

 

[Ortac]

On 12/4/2020 at 9:53 PM, Celyn: The Lutening said:

While you've mentioned PE, WTF is with UK schools (not all but like, a lot) segregating PE classes by sex?

Do they do that in other countries? Australia never does.

The school I went to in the 1990s did that as well; not only did they separate the PE classes by sex, the actual activities for each sex were completely different as well. I detested PE lessons with a passion. As a male, all I got was years of constant football, basketball, and handball, and not very much else. I was useless at these activities and I hated them. The girls on the other hand got to do things like gymnastics and dance aerobics which were not offered to the boys. That really pissed me off.

 

I remember once a PE teacher addressed a group of boys during a lesson and said that under no circumstances must girls ever be allowed to attempt the triple jump, because girls bodies were not suited to it and if they tried it they might injure themselves! Can you believe that!?

 

But interestingly, it was during the time I was at that school that they saw the error of their ways and by the later 1990s, they had completely revamped their PE curriculum, mixed the classes and opened up all activities to everyone. Unfortunately for me that happened in my final couple of years there so I didn't really benefit. I remember in my final year I wandered off during a free period and passed by the sports hall viewing gallery, and saw the 12 year old kids in a PE lesson where there were both boys and girls, and they were all contentedly rolling around barefoot on mats doing some sort of yoga based exercises. That was such a huge contrast to just a few years earlier when there was no way that would have been allowed, and at that age I had been subjected to nothing but hours of agonising basketball in a boys only group.

 

 

[Homer]

On 11/23/2020 at 5:45 PM, Tarelenion said:

1. Who are you(student, teacher, third party)

3rd party

 

On 11/23/2020 at 5:45 PM, Tarelenion said:

2. What would you like about school uniforms

I'd like them to not be a thing. It seems so incredibly pointless.

 

On 11/23/2020 at 5:45 PM, Tarelenion said:

3. What would you not like about school uniforms

Everything, basically. There's zero benefit in having them.

 

On 11/23/2020 at 5:45 PM, Tarelenion said:

4. What is your preference, School uniform yes or no?

No.

 

  

1 hour ago, Ortac said:

I personally think that the clothes in which many kids and teenagers turn up to school are appalling because they look so scruffy; in many instances there seems to be no effort whatsoever to look even the slightest bit smart.

Why would that matter? And anyway, what's better than looking smart? Actually being smart  

 

  

1 hour ago, Ortac said:

Curiously, I have heard of occurrences where groups of French school pupils have gone to England on school trips, and they have seen groups of English school kids in their smart blazers and ties and been quite jealous of it. They’ve remarked to their teachers “That looks really good, why can’t we have that?”

What's stopping them from having that, on a personal level? If you like a particular style of clothing, go for it. Done.

[Ion]

I am a college student. I was in two different high schools; one with a uniform and one without.

I liked that I didn't have to think about what I was wearing everyday but...

• I had a limited number, so I had to double layer my clothes (hot in the summer) or wash them every two days
• The uniform was ugly as fuck and I hated the way I looked in it
• The uniform was physically uncomfortable to wear
• Sometimes you just want to wear whatever, and you can't do that with uniforms
• Uniforms can be kinda expensive and you often can't get a cheaper option

Over all, I think that the idea of uniforms is better than the reality. You enjoy it for the first month or two, and then just incredibly frustrated.

[cyancat]

1. Who are you(student, teacher, third party)

college student

 

2. What would you like about school uniforms

...not much to be honest. i don't wear anything that isn't comfortable as it is, and i usually wear similar sets of clothes anyway.

 

3. What would you not like about school uniforms

first off, as someone who went to a private school where there was school uniforms, it is often used to make money for the school. especially during the winter time. my school had this thing where they really really wanted you to buy their expensive, (very thin) jackets so much that they'd literally force you to freeze your ass off. i was deadass told to take my jacket off because it wasn't "school uniform" (it was a gray sweater jacket — not very bulky, and looked pretty similar to the school uniform jackets; it just didn't have the school logo) in the fucking winter. the absolute fuck.

secondly, given my skin sensitivities, being forced to wear tight leggings because of the skirts was so unpleasant and horrible. thankfully, i was allowed to wear khaki shorts later on and therefore didn't need leggings, but it was not fun, especially since i was even more sensitive when i was younger. actually, the whole uniform was really uncomfortable. especially the long sleeve shirts & collars. 

 

4. What is your preference, School uniform yes or no?

no. it's a money racket i swear smh.

 

.

 

also i think it depends on size of schools? my private school was too small to divide between genders for PE. on the other hand, public schools are really big so i think they feel the necessity to split classes up? but then also it’s just... not gonna lie, sexism. at least in the US and the public school i went to? girls didn’t have to do shit in the gen PE compared to the boys’ gen PE lmao

[iff]

@Tarelenion

 

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