The Magic Cisgender Pill

[Calligraphette_Coe]

I ran across this the other day while trying to find a multidiscipline therapist. After learning that my recent diagnosis was partially based on manifesting as trans and that people with the second diagnostic ( not the dsyphoria one) are almost exclusively female. I started to do some research. And came across this question on one therapist's website.

 

"If you're transgender and there was a pill that once you took it, you would become permanently cisgendered as the gender you were assigned at birth, would you take it and do so without thinking about it."

 

I thought to myself, "No, as much as I'd hate it, I'd could never take the Blue Pill."

 

70 per cent  of us said we'd  stick with the Red Pill.

[Anarchist Kaos]

A very interesting conundrum, to me the issue is more about what that would mean, I'm a very existentialist kind of person and if I were to be OK with my body, to consider it a part of myself, would I still be me?

 

One could say that the same question applies to whether I transition or not, but there is an element of philosophical discovery and satisfaction to spending all my life in this limbo of suffering and depression and finding out that the possibility of why your mind feels completely disconnected from your body could be fixed by altering it's physical and biological characteristics, not to mention that it's a process that I'm still engaging with and my conclusion could still turn out to be completely erroneous.

 

So in a way while I would very much like for this crippling depression and existential agony to end, I'd be too afraid that I would lose too much of myself in fixing it, becoming fundamentally an entirely different entity for the simple benefit of comfort, seems like too big a sacrifice to make for a relatively small reward that would make the vast majority of my concerns seem relatively trivial, a sacrifice that I would be willing to make if let's say for example this change was so drastic that it would fundamentally alter my perceptions of reality, like for example if I were to become a computer becoming one with the flow of information, renouncing my physical existence and only able to exert my will via the manipulation of data, in such a scenario, the capability of becoming such an strange being with a perspective much different to my own which could theoretically validate the existential dread that has defined my existence would be a sacrifice I would deem worthy.

 

But then again, I guess the jury's still out on whether I'm trans or just insane, but my answer still remains as no.

[Emery.]

My first thought is yes if there were no side effects. But there are. 

 

I took androgen blockers at some point and:

1. My brain collapsed, I got severe depression and anxiety. I don’t want a repeat. There was also something very bad to it, I was in a very irrational headspace on that med. Thinking straight was hard. It’s not something I should be taking. 

2. I felt like a different person. Many of the things in the emotional and mental flow were altered. Things started to seem different. Maybe anxiety was caused by the very lifestyle that I normally feel driven towards. I’m competitive and career focused. I’m gutsy even for a man. There is a lot to be afraid of in things that I normally like. It would probably mean having a different personality to become cisgender. 

3. All of this wasn’t worth it if it ruined my fertility when taking the drug (it did). Of course people’s personalities change. But why do that when unneeded and if it in fact does harm?

 

Besides, taking the fertility out of the equation, assuming it wouldn’t be a factor and I had to take some hormones to get the body and mind going (my ovaries did go completely loco at some point and the body wasn’t taking it very well) - I would pick plain male hormones to look like what I feel and sure, I would change too, but it wouldn’t be such a large change as becoming a woman. And I think I would actually enjoy being a man, not a twink, not a gay guy, not a pretty boy, I would be happy with being a very regular, plain man. Again, “happy state” depends on what our psyche is, a man wants to be a man, a woman finds it in line with her desires to be womanly. So it’s a bit of a “which came first egg or hen” issue. And changing into a woman would require adjustment, resources - which I’m unwilling to spend on it. If I did turn into a woman by myself and it wasn’t an illness, that would be a different issue, I would make the effort. However, I doubt that I would be the same as other women having the experiences that I have. I would still talk like a proud penis haver at times, lol. What is seen, can’t be unseen, lol. I mean... there are certain experiences/emotions/states of mind that... are very gender specific. And you can’t go back to not knowing them. So would I be a woman? Not sure. 

[Abigail Rose]

2 hours ago, Calligraphette_Coe said:

"If you're transgender and there was a pill that once you took it, you would become permanently cisgendered as the gender you were assigned at birth, would you take it and do so without thinking about it."

This seems like the type of question that asks trans people to question their feelings and whether they are certain of who they are. Therapy is about creating a safe place for people to explore and work through delicate issues that affect their lives. This automatically destroys any chance of that in my opinion. I see this as hostile or at the very least encourages some sort of self induced apostasy. 

 

The whole basis of this question seems to insinuate that this would make the person taking the pill's life easier or more congruent with how they how they see themselves or how they would fit into society. There is no guarantee that this would make self acceptance any easier though. There is always something, which we see in ourselves, that we wish we could change. That is the whole of the human experience, isn't it? I don't know why anyone would just take a pill without thinking about it, not even a basic pain reliever. My answer is an absolute NO. 

 

I would ask if the therapist ever considered posing the question as to whether cisgender people would take a pill to identify as anything other than the gender they were assigned at birth, if it meant they would permanently be socially and physically more acceptable. 

[Guest]

No, because it would change who I am. Not because I am transgender but because I am a man. I wouldn't change that for the world. 

[anisotrophic]

I’m confused. I take the pill and it makes me happy to be AGAB? Is that the question?

 

Yeah no then I wouldn’t be me.

 

I don’t try to imagine what I would have been like if I’d been born AMAB... but I can see myself still wanting to transition. the other way. 🤔 guess I’m really nb.

[Calligraphette_Coe]

4 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

I’m confused. I take the pill and it makes me happy to be AGAB? Is that the question?

 

Yeah no then I wouldn’t be me.

 

I don’t try to imagine what I would have been like if I’d been born AMAB... but I can see myself still wanting to transition. the other way. 🤔 guess I’m really nb.

Yes. You take the pill and you're cisgendered according to your  AGAB. If you look at it from the perspective of the movie  'The Matrix':

 

Quote

The terms "red pill" and blue pill" refer to a choice between revealing an unpleasant truth, represented by the red pill, and remaining in blissful ignorance, represented by the blue pill. The terms reference the 1999 film The Matrix. Wikipedia       

As described by Morpheus: "You take the blue pill...the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill...you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes." 

Interestingly enough, The Martix was the work of the Wachowski Sisters, who were the Wachowski Brothers when the film was  made. The Red Pill was a reference to the  M2F HRT substance popular at the time, Premarin, which was a red pill.

 

For me, taking the Blue Pill would solve some problems, but like you, I'd always have that nagging feeling that it could never be that easy and that I would no longer be me or have Free Will. I'd keep seeing that White Rabbit tattoo that Neo saw on that girl's shoulder in the beginning of the movie. I'd know that somehow the wool was being pulled over my eyes. 

 

 

[Calligraphette_Coe]

14 hours ago, Abigail Rose said:

This seems like the type of question that asks trans people to question their feelings and whether they are certain of who they are. Therapy is about creating a safe place for people to explore and work through delicate issues that affect their lives. This automatically destroys any chance of that in my opinion. I see this as hostile or at the very least encourages some sort of self induced apostasy. 

 

The whole basis of this question seems to insinuate that this would make the person taking the pill's life easier or more congruent with how they how they see themselves or how they would fit into society. There is no guarantee that this would make self acceptance any easier though. There is always something, which we see in ourselves, that we wish we could change. That is the whole of the human experience, isn't it? I don't know why anyone would just take a pill without thinking about it, not even a basic pain reliever. My answer is an absolute NO. 

 

I would ask if the therapist ever considered posing the question as to whether cisgender people would take a pill to identify as anything other than the gender they were assigned at birth, if it meant they would permanently be socially and physically more acceptable. 

Another way I look at it is from the SyFy series "Alphas", where one of the characters is able to "Push" people, a superpower that allows her to make people see what she wants them to see. It's usually done in most movies and series that use that psychic power by the use of voice, such as by the the Bene Gesserit in the movie Dune.

While I can't actually "Push" people, I have had some interesting reactions to a combination of my androgyny and slipping into 'Girl Voice'. It would be pretty cool to be able to Push people, if only to be able to stay safe and maintain a gender social distancing from people who don't much like trans people.

[Abigail Rose]

11 minutes ago, Calligraphette_Coe said:

It would be pretty cool to be able to Push people, if only to be able to stay safe and maintain a gender social distancing from people who don't much like trans people.

I have know plenty of people that wanted to "push" me. Nothing personal but, I have absolutely no faith that anyone could handle that power wisely. Free will is way more fun. Those who seek to control beauty will never behold it's glory. 

[Sarah-Sylvia]

18 hours ago, Calligraphette_Coe said:

I ran across this the other day while trying to find a multidiscipline therapist. After learning that my recent diagnosis was partially based on manifesting as trans and that people with the second diagnostic ( not the dsyphoria one) are almost exclusively female. I started to do some research. And came across this question on one therapist's website.

 

"If you're transgender and there was a pill that once you took it, you would become permanently cisgendered as the gender you were assigned at birth, would you take it and do so without thinking about it."

 

I thought to myself, "No, as much as I'd hate it, I'd could never take the Blue Pill."

 

70 per cent  of us said we'd  stick with the Red Pill.

I've seen studies that showed that quite a few trans people answered they'd take the pill at first, when they were still discovering themselves and having trouble with it and everything, but after longer periods of time, more answered that they wouldn't take the pill.

In other words, once you come to know yourself more inside, you don't want to change who you are. At least that's how I see it.
I know I would never take the pill, my female self is too important to me.

[Emery.]

3 hours ago, Calligraphette_Coe said:

I'd keep seeing that White Rabbit tattoo that Neo saw on that girl's shoulder in the beginning of the movie.

If it removed just the knowledge, it wouldn’t really make you cisgender. An opinion that the way you conceptualise your situation makes you cis or trans is transphobic. It’s just not a question of conceptualisation. It’s not. I got this told by a few health proffessionals, when I expressed this worry that maybe if I saw it differently, I wouldn’t have a problem. 

[anisotrophic]

3 hours ago, Emery. said:

If it removed just the knowledge, it wouldn’t really make you cisgender. An opinion that the way you conceptualise your situation makes you cis or trans is transphobic. It’s just not a question of conceptualisation. It’s not. I got this told by a few health proffessionals, when I expressed this worry that maybe if I saw it differently, I wouldn’t have a problem. 

This sounds like someone trying to convince me to believe in God when I just can’t. “Religion” is “just” a conceptualization of our situation right? 🙄

[Calligraphette_Coe]

On 11/19/2020 at 3:00 AM, Emery. said:

If it removed just the knowledge, it wouldn’t really make you cisgender. An opinion that the way you conceptualise your situation makes you cis or trans is transphobic. It’s just not a question of conceptualisation. It’s not. I got this told by a few health proffessionals, when I expressed this worry that maybe if I saw it differently, I wouldn’t have a problem. 

Well, in my case, the pill would have to do things like making me grow a Adam's Apple that lack of which gives me an almost contralto voice,  get rid of the Baby Face and the bit of gynecomatia. For me, some of it is like a feedback loop which involves the way other people conceptualize me. So even though some of this stufff may have had to do with possible DES exposure prenatallly, I don't think I'm intersex, but I KNOW i'm not cisgender. So maybe the only one that would work would be the Pink Pill.

[Emery.]

My version of intersex stuff still means that I just have the male characteristics in addition to female ones, but XX chromosomes and functional ovaries and the whole female reproductive tract. So the effect is pretty much the same as DES but the other way round. 

 

Anyway, I’m sick and tired of people trying to psyche out the concept of gender, like, yeah, the concept that female should be one way and males another is stupid but... sexual dimorphism exists in the psyche too. There is no gain in denying that. And it doesn’t serve mutual understanding between people at all. Also, let’s leave deconstruction of gender roles for cisgender people, we have a medical condition that has nothing to do with that, and I don’t mean transitioning, I mean the brain and body thing. Or maybe let’s roll with that the other way: as a man, I like to cook - am I not a man any more?

[daveb]

The question would be a lot easier for me if it the pill could make you cisgendered but you could choose the gender.  

(but I guess that defeats the intent of the question)

[DuranDuranfan]

Isn’t there one for Androgynous? I want less breast tissue and narrower hips and butt.

[Calligraphette_Coe]

On 11/21/2020 at 1:27 PM, daveb said:

The question would be a lot easier for me if it the pill could make you cisgendered but you could choose the gender.  

(but I guess that defeats the intent of the question)

I guess the paradox in all of  this is that the only free will you get when you're trans is the choice to take the pills that will biologically make you cisgendered. Or not take them at all. And then there's always the question  ' after you have transitioned fully, are you then cisgendered?' Or still technically transgendered?

 

With my circumstances, it's more like playing the Texas Hold 'Em variant of poker. I got dealt a crappy hand that doesn't allow anything close to a winning hand to be constructed when combined with the 'community' cards. Whereas cisgendered peoples' down cards allow them to use them  to make an inside straight, mine only allow me to bluff. But one of the strategies for coming out ahead in Texas Hold 'Em is to know mathematically and psychologically when to raise, call or fold and how much to bet through many iterations of  the game.

 

As thought experiments go, both of these screnarios are painful to contemplate. I always wonder 'why did this have to happen, and why can't I just walk away from the game, taking my chips and going home?  But the heartbreaking part is that you can't stop playing the game. Every day of your life.

[Ms. Carolynne]

I definitely would not, because I am not a man and do not want to be one.

 

This is really just conversion therapy in the form of a hypothetical pill. I don't think anything like this would ever work, or be ethical. Because it's not who I am. The pill would require me to change my personality and repress my dysphoria, which I already had done to myself in hiding and denying my gender identity. Which made me miserable, which is why I began questioning and analyzing why I felt off.

[Abigail Rose]

On 11/21/2020 at 12:27 PM, daveb said:

The question would be a lot easier for me if it the pill could make you cisgendered but you could choose the gender.  

(but I guess that defeats the intent of the question)

Then the question might be, How many pills do you need? One a day like a vitamin? What if you only took a half of the pill? Or what if I forgot and took two of them? 

 

Sorry tangents are mean to me sometimes.

[daveb]

I assumed just a one time thing, since the OP says "once you took it". But the tangent raises other thoughts and speculation. If, for example, it worked for 24 hours and then you had to take another, then you could try it and see if you liked it or only take it when you wanted to feel that way. But then, what happens when you miss days, or as you said, if you double up. But I digress.  

[Anthracite_Impreza]

Absolutely not, no more than I'd "cure" my autism or otherkin-ness. I'm an autistic male who is otherkin; take any of those away from me and I'm not me any more.

[Karst]

On 11/18/2020 at 9:07 AM, Abigail Rose said:

I would ask if the therapist ever considered posing the question as to whether cisgender people would take a pill to identify as anything other than the gender they were assigned at birth, if it meant they would permanently be socially and physically more acceptable. 

There are a lot of historical cases of women/AFAB people passing as men in order to hold better-paying jobs, join the military, et cetera.  I wonder how many women would be willing to take a hypothetical "XY pill" in order to get by more easily in misogynistic cultures.

[Abigail Rose]

8 hours ago, Karst said:

There are a lot of historical cases of women/AFAB people passing as men in order to hold better-paying jobs, join the military, et cetera.  I wonder how many women would be willing to take a hypothetical "XY pill" in order to get by more easily in misogynistic cultures.

That's a solid point. There are plenty of movies where that is central to the theme. I doubt they would like the idea as much if they knew that there was a decent chance of adopting that same misogynistic demeanor themselves. Then again maybe that would be the appeal. You can't escape tyranny by joining it. That's my outlook anyhow. 

[Emery.]

3 hours ago, Abigail Rose said:

You can't escape tyranny by joining it.

I’m not too sure  

 

I mean, not that I approve of patriarchy or anything similar. But powerful people do get away with things. Not that it’s something to be admired, I used to be angry about that fact. But oh well, this is how the world works, you can’t remove that effect completely as long as we’re all not identical clones. 

[Abigail Rose]

7 hours ago, Emery. said:

But powerful people do get away with things.

Of course people do get away with things that are hurtful to others. My point is like this. If a person is abused somehow, they do not escape that abuse by becoming abusive themselves, which is very common without doing some very heavy personal healing and growth. If anything they are doubling themselves down on accepting that as the way things go and not resisting the danger of such actions only creates more of them.