eeza17 Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 On 2/7/2021 at 4:38 AM, 2SpiritCherokeePrincess said: Israel's treatment of Palestinians has drawn the attention of the International Criminal Court. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/icc-ruling-brings-hope-for-palestinians-dismay-for-israelis/ar-BB1drPr4?ocid=msedgntp#image=BB1drPr4_1|3 And now--just like anyone he disagrees with--Netanyahu accuses the ICC: It's antisemitic of them to be holding Israel to this double standard. Link to post Share on other sites
eeza17 Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 Just now, eeza17 said: It's antisemetic of them to be holding Israel to this double standard. And legally, they can't even try them, since Israel isn't a part of the ICC. Link to post Share on other sites
gisiebob Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 On 2/21/2021 at 11:37 AM, eeza17 said: And legally, they can't even try them, since Israel isn't a part of the ICC. why are they not? Link to post Share on other sites
gisiebob Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 On 1/24/2021 at 2:45 PM, ben8884 said: So heres my idea vis a vis Jerusalem that probably wouldn't work. Tje Palestinians and Israelies both claim Jerusalem. My idea would be to give it to neither of them. Turn it into an independent city state and have a neutral country gaurd it. Thst wau both peoples can enjoy it equally. ok, but 'who' would govern it? what is an independent body here? would religious beliefs be able to not be a factor? and could be expanded to other areas of conflict here? Link to post Share on other sites
eeza17 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 On 2/22/2021 at 11:25 PM, gisiebob said: why are they not? ... Am I meant to know every country's logic and reasoning for what global programs they are or not a part of? In any case, I did a quick google search; this is what I found. https://digitalcommons.law.uga.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1367&context=gjicl See the first paragraph on page 4, for reasons on why they didn't want to join. I didn't read through the rest of it, so I'm not sure what it says; but I know in the title it says something about how they did join so I am confused about that. (I tried screenshotting but it wouldn't let me upload here, sorry.) Link to post Share on other sites
ben8884 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 On 2/22/2021 at 11:30 PM, gisiebob said: ok, but 'who' would govern it? what is an independent body here? would religious beliefs be able to not be a factor? and could be expanded to other areas of conflict here? I would get the UN to guard it. Much like the Swiss do with the Vatican. Link to post Share on other sites
eeza17 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 35 minutes ago, ben8884 said: I would get the UN to guard it. Much like the Swiss do with the Vatican. The UN is antisemitic,, most Jews would not be comfortable with them being in charge. Link to post Share on other sites
ben8884 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 53 minutes ago, eeza17 said: The UN is antisemitic,, most Jews would not be comfortable with them being in charge. OK well NATO or some neutral country Link to post Share on other sites
eeza17 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 1 hour ago, ben8884 said: OK well NATO or some neutral country What neutral country? Becasue 99.4% of the world's country has a *lovely* history of antisemitism😁 I don't know enough about NATO to endorse or discredit this idea. Link to post Share on other sites
Still Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 On 2/21/2021 at 9:36 PM, eeza17 said: It's antisemitic of them to be holding Israel to this double standard. 7 hours ago, eeza17 said: The UN is antisemitic 4 hours ago, eeza17 said: 99.4% of the world's country has a *lovely* history of antisemitism😁 🙄 I'm just shocked it took this thread five pages until someone pulled the ”any criticism of Israel is antisemitism” card. Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 4 hours ago, Still said: 🙄 I'm just shocked it took this thread five pages until someone pulled the ”any criticism of Israel is antisemitism” card. I don't think that card was pulled. Link to post Share on other sites
eeza17 Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 5 hours ago, Still said: 🙄 I'm just shocked it took this thread five pages until someone pulled the ”any criticism of Israel is antisemitism” card. Did I say that? No. What I said was holding us to a double standard is antisemitic. Which both the ICC and the UN do. As for most countries being antisemitic; if you've learned basic Jewish history, we've been kicked out of practically every country moving west of Israel for millenia. America is the "last place" to not hate us, but even that is slowly going away. The hate crimes against Jews have risen tremendously both globally and nationally (in America nationally) in the past year. I'm more than willing to educate you, if you're open to that. 1 hour ago, Sally said: I don't think that card was pulled. Thank you! Link to post Share on other sites
Still Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 4 hours ago, eeza17 said: Did I say that? No. What I said was holding us to a double standard is antisemitic. Which both the ICC and the UN do. Responding to someone saying "What about X?" with "X is antisemitic!" definitely seems like you're trying to dismiss critics of Israel by calling them antisemites, especially since your post was completely void of content. Saying the UN is antisemitic is not an argument if you don't back it up in any way. 4 hours ago, eeza17 said: As for most countries being antisemitic; if you've learned basic Jewish history, we've been kicked out of practically every country moving west of Israel for millenia. America is the "last place" to not hate us, but even that is slowly going away. The hate crimes against Jews have risen tremendously both globally and nationally (in America nationally) in the past year. I'm more than willing to educate you, if you're open to that. I know at least that much history, yes. Do their pasts mean that those countries can't be objective? I also have to question the US ever having been some kind of bastion of tolerance towards Jews. Link to post Share on other sites
Alaska Native Manitou Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 https://www.yesmagazine.org/social-justice/2019/03/08/ilhan-omar-anti-semitism-false-accusations-harmful/ Antisemitism is a serious issue; but it won't stay that way if you use the term as a weapon against anyone you disagree with, or accuse those simply telling the truth of "a double standard." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Cried_Wolf Link to post Share on other sites
eeza17 Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 5 hours ago, Still said: Responding to someone saying "What about X?" with "X is antisemitic!" definitely seems like you're trying to dismiss critics of Israel by calling them antisemites, especially since your post was completely void of content. Saying the UN is antisemitic is not an argument if you don't back it up in any way. I know at least that much history, yes. Do their pasts mean that those countries can't be objective? ...Instead of calling me stupid for pulling the antisemitism card, you can instead ask me to find sources, explain, back it up... I can do that, I'm just in school so hopefully I will remember to come back in 8 hours to clarify everything and bring proof. Yes I do think after 600 years Spain can be objective, I'm just saying if you look at even recent history, so many countries remain antisemitic. Look at Poland outlowing any mentions of them helping the Nazis during the Holocaust. 5 hours ago, Still said: I also have to question the US ever having been some kind of bastion of tolerance towards Jews. What do you mean by this? Theoretically we legally have many rights, the most in our history since not being an autonomous nation in Israel back in whatever year BCE. Antisemitism from citizens has not abated though. 4 hours ago, 2SpiritCherokee Princess said: https://www.yesmagazine.org/social-justice/2019/03/08/ilhan-omar-anti-semitism-false-accusations-harmful/ Antisemitism is a serious issue; but it won't stay that way if you use the term as a weapon against anyone you disagree with, or accuse those simply telling the truth of "a double standard." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Cried_Wolf I'm not using it as a weapon against anyone I disagree with. One of the IRHA's definitons of antisemitism is "Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation." I'm saying that XYZ behavior/line of reasoning is antisemitic because it is. The truth is that there is a double standard. I will come back later to hopefully address these thoughts in more detail. Link to post Share on other sites
Still Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 2 hours ago, eeza17 said: ...Instead of calling me stupid for pulling the antisemitism card, you can instead ask me to find sources, explain, back it up... I can do that, I'm just in school so hopefully I will remember to come back in 8 hours to clarify everything and bring proof. I never called you stupid, but I did say your arguments were bad. You should've just posted those sources to begin with instead of just saying the UN is antisemitic with zero rationale - that's not how discussion works. 2 hours ago, eeza17 said: Look at Poland outlowing any mentions of them helping the Nazis during the Holocaust. Poland is pretty terrible in general when it comes to minorities, it's not exactly indicative of the typical European nation. 2 hours ago, eeza17 said: What do you mean by this? Theoretically we legally have many rights, the most in our history since not being an autonomous nation in Israel back in whatever year BCE. Antisemitism from citizens has not abated though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_antisemitism_in_the_United_States 2 hours ago, eeza17 said: I'm not using it as a weapon against anyone I disagree with. One of the IRHA's definitons of antisemitism is "Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation." I'm saying that XYZ behavior/line of reasoning is antisemitic because it is. The truth is that there is a double standard. That's getting really far from the actual meaning of the word. Serious danger of a "boy who cried wolf" situation there. Link to post Share on other sites
Iam9man Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 Please keep in mind the Terms of Service. Take a step back if needed. Iam9man PPS Moderator Link to post Share on other sites
AspieAlly613 Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 13 hours ago, eeza17 said: What I said was holding us to a double standard is antisemitic. Which both the ICC and the UN do. Which example do you have in mind of Israel being criticized by ICC and the UN for something similar to what another country does, but that other country does not get criticized? Link to post Share on other sites
gisiebob Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 I know for me personally, if I would be passing judgement on Israel, I would consider it under a secular perspective, and certainly have previously, where I consider it as a nation, without any religious considerations, that simply has religious considerations within it. I personally do not consider how it's interactions with external people and nations have any religious needs, in any direction, and I assume others do likewise. Link to post Share on other sites
ben8884 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 The trouble is Jerusalem is Holy to 3 major religions. As for Israel and Palestine I really don't have a lot of knowledge. Link to post Share on other sites
פלונית Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 On 3/4/2021 at 8:06 PM, AspieAlly613 said: Which example do you have in mind of Israel being criticized by ICC and the UN for something similar to what another country does, but that other country does not get criticized? I hear much less talking about the situation in Kashmir, for example (but maybe I'm wrong). And India does much, much, much worse things there. I think it's mostly hyper-focus in this place because of its religious meaning. Link to post Share on other sites
gisiebob Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 4 hours ago, פלונית said: I hear much less talking about the situation in Kashmir, for example (but maybe I'm wrong). And India does much, much, much worse things there. I think it's mostly hyper-focus in this place because of its religious meaning. could it not just as well be because of the political weight that is put on the misdle east? Link to post Share on other sites
Alaska Native Manitou Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 https://www.democracynow.org/2021/3/4/vaccine_rollout_palestinian_territories_israel https://www.democracynow.org/2021/3/4/except_for_palestine_marc_lamont_hill https://www.democracynow.org/2021/3/5/israel_palestine_covid_vaccines_mondaire_jones Link to post Share on other sites
gisiebob Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 @2SpiritCherokee Princess would you mind offering your personal context to these links and video? Link to post Share on other sites
Alaska Native Manitou Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 On 3/12/2021 at 2:17 PM, gisiebob said: @2SpiritCherokee Princess would you mind offering your personal context to these links and video? If it isn't obvious, the distribution of vaccines in Israel is very unfair & disturbing. The second link is about how hard it is to show any fairness to Palestinians. For more information look at how hostile some of the reactions I've gotten in this thread are. It makes me just want to post links without commenting. This just in: https://www.yahoo.com/news/palestinian-boys-went-foraging-vegetables-093005474.html Link to post Share on other sites
Alaska Native Manitou Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 Human Rights Watch remained neutral on Israel a long time, but can't ignore the crimes anymore. https://www.democracynow.org/2021/4/30/hrw_israel_palestine_apartheid_persecution Link to post Share on other sites
Zagadka Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 Human Rights Watch is pretty biased in general. The fact that they have finally said anything is a welcome surprise and says a lot. We'll see if anything comes of it. Link to post Share on other sites
פלונית Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 21 hours ago, 2SpiritCherokee Princess said: ארגון Human Rights Watch נותר ניטרלי כלפי ישראל זמן רב, אך אינו יכול להתעלם מהפשעים יותר. https://www.democracynow.org/2021/4/30/hrw_israel_palestine_apartheid_persecution I may not be objective here, but it is hard for me to say that he was neutral ... and now to say that Israel is an apartheid state is an utter contempt for apartheid, which was significantly more difficult than a problematic budget dispute and failure to accept some national demands. Israel gives full civil rights for its Arab citizens. You can say that the partial national rights aren't enough, but it's different from aparthaid. Link to post Share on other sites
Zagadka Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 As a complete outsider to Israel/Palestine, it isn't my place to make accusations and declarations, but from everything I've seen, the issues in Palestine are a bit beyond just not having full national rights, and to dismiss everything happening there is really... unfair. Link to post Share on other sites
eeza17 Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 On 3/12/2021 at 6:06 PM, 2SpiritCherokee Princess said: If it isn't obvious, the distribution of vaccines in Israel is very unfair & disturbing. The second link is about how hard it is to show any fairness to Palestinians. For more information look at how hostile some of the reactions I've gotten in this thread are. It makes me just want to post links without commenting. This just in: https://www.yahoo.com/news/palestinian-boys-went-foraging-vegetables-093005474.html Israel offered the vaccine. The PA declined to accept their help, and have since decided to claim that Israel wants to kill all Palestinians, just because their government won't accept help Link to post Share on other sites
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