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ALoudPrincess

Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Israeli-Palestinian Conflict  

32 members have voted

  1. 1. What is your stance?

    • Pro-Israel
      6
    • Pro-Palestine
      13
    • Impartial
      8
    • Need to learn more before I make a choice
      8


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2SpiritCherokeePrincess
eeza17
5 hours ago, ALoudPrincess said:

For those who don't know, Jews are a nation and religion. Not only one label.

More than a nation and religion though, because you can have non-religious Jews. Labeling "who is a Jew"

 

4 hours ago, ALoudPrincess said:

For

4 minutes ago, 2SpiritCherokeePrincess said:

 

The Israeli government did take the children of Yeminites, and gave them to Ashkenazi survivors. For once, CNN got something right. It's common knowldedge, at least in my circles.

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Sally
On 11/14/2020 at 3:22 PM, 2SpiritCherokeePrincess said:

The all-green land you show above was not solely populated by Arabs -- there were also Jews living there, and other ethnicities and tribal groups.  And in 1946, it was ruled by England, not a nation called "Palestine."  Before England, it was ruled by the Ottoman Empire in Turkey.

 

Use facts, not emotional arguments, if you want to explain something.

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Iam9man
11 hours ago, ALoudPrincess said:

I don't trust CNN as a reliable new source.

Which US news channel/organisation would you trust as a reliable source?

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2SpiritCherokeePrincess

Here are some movies about Palestine:

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Acing It

All I'm going to add is that I have it from a first hand neutral source (observer sent to the country) that the Israeli military/political aparatus is very good at filtering news before it gets out.

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eeza17
8 hours ago, 2SpiritCherokeePrincess said:

I'll also mention Kadosh.  An Israeli movie about Jewish culture oppressing women.  https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x32fuqe

Jewish culture doesn't oppress women. It's quite possible that some men who interpret the Torah in certain ways use it to oppress the women, but just because there are bad people in a religion doesn't make the religion bad.

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gisiebob

this is a good place to practice questioning truth. lots of folk will believe how things are here, will call what they believe as something called Truth, but we should ask what gives us truth? is it ever an individual? are we here an individual trying to impress Truth onto one another?

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Kaiboj

Since I can't figure out how to follow a topic, I'm going to post now so it shows up in my history. There is a lot I could say on this topic having spent time in both Israel and Palestine, but I should be going to sleep, so I will save it for another time. I will say as a US citizen, we are complicit in a lot of human rights abuses taking place over there. There are messed up governments on both sides, but the imbalance of power is strong and the average Palestinian citizen suffers for it.

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Kaiboj

Wow, almost a week has past, so I guess I'm reviving a dead topic, but I wanted to reply and a busy week got in the way.
Before I knew anything about the conflict I was studying abroad in Be'er Sheva. I was there during Operation Pillar of Defense. Despite the rocket fire I felt fairly safe under the Iron Dome. Due to the rockets our exams were postponed and we were sent home for the holidays. I got home and what little news coverage I saw did not at all reflect the reality I saw on the ground. Even though I felt safe, I worried about the many people in Gaza who did not have the shelter of the Iron Dome.

Fast forward to 2016, having not thought of Israel or Palestine for a couple years, I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life. I had the opportunity to go on a learning delegation to Palestine. While there we spoke with both Israeli and Palestinian human rights organizations. Two that stand out in my mind were Parents Circle Families and Military Court Watch. The former is a group of Israelis and Palestinians who have lost immediate family members who get together and share their stories with each other. The other is a group that monitors children who are in Israeli military detention.

According to Military Court Watch's latest report 73% of the imprisoned children are held inside of Israel rather than in Palestine (meaning that unless their parents have permits to cross into Israel, they have no access to their children). This violates the Fourth Geneva Convention.

Fast forward to the end of 2017, I left my job to join the organization that put on the learning tour to become a human rights monitor and accompaniment worker. The team I was with was based out of al-Khalil(Hebron). al_Khalil is considered the 'microcosm' of the Israeli occupation. Our team was on call to monitor any situations that arose. However, our most common task was to monitor military checkpoints that children and teachers pass through on their way to school. We would record the number of students by gender and how many times they were stopped or harassed by settlers or soldiers. We also recorded incidences involving tear gas and sound grenades. We would write semester reports which we would make publicly available (this work was partially supported by a UNICEF grant, the rest was through organization fundraising). Due to the number of years of data, it was easy to see that the number of students passing through these checkpoints continue to decline. For example, the kindergarten next to the Ibrahimi Mosque (also known as the Cave of the Patriarchs or the Cave of Machpelah) had 10 teachers and 90 students in 2000. As of 2018, there were 12 children registered (I don't have current numbers for reasons I will address at the end).
Yes kids throw rocks at the checkpoints sometimes. They are kids, they are frustrated, and the checkpoints are fortified so the soldiers are very unlikely to be injured. The response is extreme and the punishment collective. Soldiers (generally freshly graduated high school students serving their mandatory military stint, with a couple of long term border police) shoot tear gas canisters and sound grenades into groups of children. They on rare occasion rush forward and detain whichever children are closest regardless of whether they threw the stones or not. Sometimes the tear gas canisters are shot into the schools and classes have to be delayed or cancelled. Often during incidences, the checkpoints are closed and the children left waiting unable to get to school. In January to May of 2018 we recorded 31 tear gas canisters and 14 sound grenades fired at children and a nearby school.

I could go on and on about how many times I saw a disproportionate use of power, but I feel this is already getting long and I have a couple more things to address.

Most of the Israeli soldiers are fresh out of high school. Their brains are still developing, they are still developing a sense of self. To have them in this position is horrendous. I don't want excuse their actions, they are complicit, but I also don't want to dehumanize them. You can hear some or their accounts in Breaking the Silence.

The settlers are the people I really take issue with. They come in a couple groups, those who are religious zealots who believe they are within their G-d given right to reclaim the land promised to them by any means necessary, and those who live sheltered lives behind gated walls with no idea of the cost of the land where they live. The settlers I encountered in al-Khalil are the first type. They make life miserable for the Palestinians who live there, falsely accusing them of crimes, throwing rocks, urine or other items at them, literally driving them out of their homes and establishing themselves in them. As an occupying nation, it is illegal by international law for Israeli civilians to be moved into occupied territories. Moreover, most of the settlements in the West Bank are illegal by Israeli law, and yet they receive support from Israel.

I don't care what religion you are, but when you conflate religion and nationalism it is dangerous and scary. Even soldiers were often intimidated by the more zealous settlers. They were unpredictable and heavily armed.

You can't hear of the conflict without hearing of demolitions. Demolitions often occur for two supposed reasons: either collective punishment due to misdeeds of one member of the family (no matter how extended) or for not having the permits to build in the first place. Collective punishment is illegal per the Geneva Convention. As for permits, those living in area C of the West Bank are under Israeli jurisdiction, to apply for a permit is prohibitively expensive and the majority of them are rejected with no reason given.

I'm starting to ramble, so I'll finish with one more point: censorship. People can be punished for what they do or say online or in public, they are sometimes detained under administrative detention, which means they can be held for a certain length of time without be charged with any crime, that length of time can be renewed so the person is detained indefinitely. Journalist and human rights monitors are also targeted. I have had a sound grenade thrown directly at my feet so that I tripped over it. The Israeli government considers any criticism as being anti-Israel and attacks those who dare speak up as anti-Semitic. Nearly every foreign human rights monitor, including myself and most of the people I worked with eventually get denied entrance to Israel and as such are unable to enter Palestine.

I apologize for how long this is, but it weighs heavily on me, and I couldn't bear to leave stuff out. If you have any questions or need clarification on any points feel free to ask. I realize most of what I'm writing is based off my first hand experience and ignores the bigger pictures and history, but I am not a historian and you can find that information anywhere. I can speak more easily and with more authority about the individuals impacted than the issues that surround the conflict.

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2SpiritCherokeePrincess

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