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MSBThePale

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I've had discussions about this topic before but I just need to rant.

 

It's already so hard for me to make friends but lately I feel like I've been getting better and more social lately. And that's great because while I'm grayro, in a romantic relationship, I still crave platonic relationships.

 

But I have a huge squish on this friend of mine. And she seems like the one person in my friend group that I haven't gotten any closer to this year, because she spends almost 24/7 with her boyfriend.

 

I've been patient, I want her to be happy. But it's still so frustrating that she never makes any time for her friends because of him! And he's a great guy dont get me wrong, but so great you just ignore your friends? It's just not fair.

 

I finally caught her on her own today, and I've been planning a big dnd event with some friends on Sunday. She's known about this for weeks but she still told me she's spending the weekend with him. No big deal I guess, I mean it's just a game and I'll have other events in the future. But I was just really looking forward to this? And I can almost see a pattern happening.

 

The worst part is I've known her for over five years and she only met him this summer. Its just so annoying how close he gets to her so suddenly!! It really feels like a "what does he have that I don't have?" Situation but I know the answer. She likes him romantically. It's just not fair.

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MakeupJunkie4

I understand your frustrations (I've been there many times myself). But unfortunately if that's how your friend prioritizes her relationships - there's not much you can do, and it's best to just let her be and not try to reach out too much. It hurts, I know - but you've gotta take care of you. Not to say there needs to be any bad blood between you, but maybe just let the distance stay there until further notice. If you don't, you'll probably end up miserable and maybe even damage your friendship.

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@MSBThePale, I'll look at this from the other angle. When you're in love with someone, they dominate your thoughts 24/7. When your not with them you just want to be with them. Sometimes this overrides your other friendships, particularly early in a relationship. I'm in this situation, where one person takes precedence over all other thoughts at the moment.

This may, in the case of your friend, be even more the case if she can't be with her BF every night. 

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41 minutes ago, Skycaptain said:

When you're in love with someone, they dominate your thoughts 24/7.

That sounds more like a hostage situation. (Which it is until people regain their senses, according to my experience.)

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1 minute ago, Homer said:

That sounds more like a hostage situation. (Which it is until people regain their senses, according to my experience.)

I'll have to respectfully disagree here. I'm speaking from personal experience here. People in love just want to be with their partner, there's something in your brain chemistry that changes. If you're apart then you just want to be with them, you want them to share whatever your doing. It's not a hostage situation. I'm finding it hard to put into words, because it's never happened to me before, nor was I ever expecting to be here, but all I can say is that it is the best feeling in the world. 

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Hmm, yeah it sucks when close friends get into relationships and nothing else really matters to them for a while, but that's life. They'll probably be less obsessed with each other in a few months or so and remember that they enjoy spending time with their friends too (and if they don't then... is the sort of person who ditches their friends really the sort of person you want to be friends with?). This is just something your going to have to accept; most romantic people go through a New Relationship Energy/limerence stage where their partner dominates their life for a while, they they calm down and settle into a "new normal", you just have to be patient.

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3 hours ago, CBC said:

There's a natural hierarchy there.

I would hardly call it natural. Our society has tried to make it seem like romantic relationships are the most important type of bond a person can have. And believe me, as someone who is in a romantic relationship, I know it feels pretty dang important but I wouldn't be able to survive without my platonic friends.

 

And every time someone I know pushes their friends away by centering their attention on the current love interest, they end up alone and miserable when the infatuation ends and the relationship breaks off. So how can it be natural when they're left needing a friend?

 

Be that as it may, I know too well this is still how the world works as it is. And it sucks.

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2 hours ago, MakeupJunkie4 said:

I understand your frustrations (I've been there many times myself). But unfortunately if that's how your friend prioritizes her relationships - there's not much you can do, and it's best to just let her be and not try to reach out too much. It hurts, I know - but you've gotta take care of you. Not to say there needs to be any bad blood between you, but maybe just let the distance stay there until further notice. If you don't, you'll probably end up miserable and maybe even damage your friendship.

I know, I'm starting to see that this might just be a fruitless endeavor. I've been trying to get her to notice me for years. And yeag we're good friends but there's still some distance between us that never seems to be there when a new boyfriend comes along.

I think it's time I give up. I mean, I've tried in the past but it never worked, so this time I'm thinking of just doing what you do with a crush and get rejected. I've been sitting on these feelings for so long and never thought I'd have to tell her but I know nothing's going to change until I hear her say she'll never feel the same.

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1 hour ago, Skycaptain said:

@MSBThePale, I'll look at this from the other angle. When you're in love with someone, they dominate your thoughts 24/7. When your not with them you just want to be with them. Sometimes this overrides your other friendships, particularly early in a relationship. I'm in this situation, where one person takes precedence over all other thoughts at the moment.

This may, in the case of your friend, be even more the case if she can't be with her BF every night. 

You don't need to lecture me, I've been there before. I thought coming to AVEN, I might find people that understand that romantic love isn't the strongest type you can feel. I've had romantic feelings, in fact I have someone I love romantically right now, so I know it's pretty intense. But my platonic feelings for her are intense too. 

Bottom line is, I just don't think it's considerate to your friends and other people who love you, to only pay attention to your love interest for weeks on end. 

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43 minutes ago, theV0ID said:

They'll probably be less obsessed with each other in a few months or so and remember that they enjoy spending time with their friends too 

Thats what I thought about the last boyfriend, but she immediately found this guy after breaking up. I'm sick of waiting around for her to care about me, you're probably right that it isn't worth it. I need to rip off this bandaid.

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2 minutes ago, CBC said:

Is this like the argument that 'the media' makes us want to have sex and that we're just brainwashed? Because... no.

That is absolutely not anything alike what I said, what? What??

Basically what you said about relationships being in variety. All I'm saying is a romantic relationship doesn't have to be important because it's romantic. Obviously, if you're close to your romantic partner, it may be the most important relationship you have, but if you just met the person four months ago, I disagree that they should take precedence over friends you've known for years or family you have healthy relationships with. 

 

6 minutes ago, CBC said:

That sounds like you're talking about situations where relationships turn sour. Which doesn't always happen. And if they end up truly, completely alone after a breakup, due to having pushed all their friends away... well, they're not a very psychological stable person, I don't think.

I don't know, I see this happen a lot. Its happened with friends, friends of friends, I hear people complain about it a lot. 

I think it's becoming more common not to have these situations happen because people are becoming more aware of what healthy boundaries are in romantic relationships, but clearly it still happens, such as in my situation.

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Janus the Fox

A reminder that we shouldn’t attack other members romantic experiences, members will have various relational experiences and avoiding a certain level of romantic elitism based on such experiences.

 

Personally even though I’m in a romantic/sexual relationship (put on a full years hold or more due to COVID) I’ve never at any point experienced the attraction or the thought processes described already.  I like this one way devotion as the BF experiences this when in or out of my physical presence.  The BF knows this given his limited intellectual understanding of the AroAce difference.  We’ve been dating in the relationship for 3 years with little to no developments after the 6 month point.

 

I’ll move this to Romantic and Aromantic Orientations for the relationship themes given here.

 

Janus DarkFox

Questions about Asexuality, Asexual Musings and Rantings & Open Mic Moderator

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2 minutes ago, Janus DarkFox said:

A reminder that we shouldn’t attack other members romantic experiences, members will have various relational experiences and avoiding a certain level of romantic elitism based on such experiences.

I apologize. I got heated because I've been frustrated and maybe a little heartbroken all evening. It's hard to talk about this with my allo friends. I definitely know these experiences are different for everyone.

 

4 minutes ago, Janus DarkFox said:

Personally even though I’m in a romantic/sexual relationship (put on a full years hold or more due to COVID) I’ve never at any point experienced the attraction or the thought processes described already.  I like this one way devotion as the BF experiences this when in or out of my physical presence.  The BF knows this given his limited intellectual understanding of the AroAce difference.  We’ve been dating in the relationship for 3 years with little to no developments after the 6 month point.

This is an interesting angle. My relationship with my own boyfriend is similar sometimes. And I consider him my best friend, but my feelings for him are still very different from the way I feel about my squish.

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5 minutes ago, CBC said:

You should like/love your partner as a friend, too. 

Well, I'm grayro, so sometimes I only love my partner as a friend. He understands this.

But I never feel romantically for my squish. Maybe that's the problem, she'll never recognize how important my feelings really are. 

 

I guess I've known this for years, which is why I've tried to get over her countless times. If only it were that simple though.

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2 minutes ago, CBC said:

Hrmm. So what does that mean for you, in practical terms? Does an underlying sense of 'I love this person in a way that involves romantic feelings' completely disappear and then return, over and over? Because there are, of course, times where I'm not in a highly romantic mood, and that's true of pretty much everyone. Just like how, although I enjoy sex very much and need it in a relationship and strongly desire my partner, I'm not constantly needing sex. But I don't ever suddenly switch to absolutely no underlying sense of having a romantic and sexual connection to him. Even if I was having the worst day of my life somehow or in a very bad mood or physically ill or upset with him or... whatever... the fact that we share the type of connection that we do is a constant. How exactly do you mean you only love your partner as a friend at times?

I mean... That isn't really what I'm here to discuss. But to answer your question, I don't feel the need to kiss him or flirt or anything like that. I'm fine just chattiny or playing video games or joking around. In fact, if flirting is introduced, I feel uninterested, sometimes even uncomfortable, and he picks up on it and backs off.

 

But my feelings for him don't fade when they're only platonic. Because even then, he's still just as important to me, I still want him to be in my life just as much. It took me a long time to figure this out because when those periods would come, I'd feel so guilty, like I owed him romance or something, or like I was leading him on. But I genuinely don't hold romantic feelings in higher regard than platonic feelings. 

 

I've been clear to him about this and he understands. I should also add that he finds platonic relationships very important as well and we have a mutual understanding that the other needs to spend exclusive time with friends sometimes.

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4 minutes ago, CBC said:

I guess I meant more like... are there days or brief periods where you don't feel interested in that stuff (which is common and normal) or more like 'I haven't wanted to interact romantically for three months now and can't even connect to an underlying sense of non-platonic feelings for him' (not particularly common)?

Considering we live three hours apart and only see each other every couple of weeks, I can't say I particularly notice a difference how I want to act. But sometimes, the thought of him doesn't provoke romantic association. Of course, it used to be more of a pronounced difference, and would last weeks, sometimes months and I would get really scared, thinking I lied about liking him. Now that I've accepted that it's okay to not like him romantically all the time, I don't really keep track of which feelings are which or how long they last. If I think hard in the moment, maybe, but it's not that important to me anymore. Romantic love, platonic love, they're both very strong feelings.

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33 minutes ago, CBC said:

And romantic/sexual connections also involve romantic feelings and sexual desire. Those additional elements are what lead to the development of a particular type of bond and commitment that, in certain realms of life, will mean that that relationship takes precedence over others.

Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting, but it sounds like you're saying that aspec folk who don't, can't, or very rarely experience sexual and/or romantic attraction or feelings just need to accept that they're missing out, and that we should just deal with the fact that romance and sex is more important than having a meaningful deep, platonic bond and learn to live with the fact that we're going to be pushed to the wayside in favor of romantic partners.

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Have you told her that you want to develop a closer (or more active, or whatever goals you might have) friendship? Is she aware of how her behavior is making you feel? If not, that's probably an important conversation to have. It's entirely possible that she may not realize anything is wrong. (To be clear, I'm not saying one way or the other whether or not her behavior is objectively wrong. But at least from your perspective, there is something wrong in the relationship between the two of you.)

 

I don't really have any advice on how to have that discussion without seeming like the "bad guy." I'm sure timing, context, and tone are all very important, as is actively listening to her responses. And even if she does end up making some commitment to change, prepare for the possibility that she may still be around less than you'd like. After all, her significant other is going to be significant to her life.

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3 hours ago, ER2742 said:

Have you told her that you want to develop a closer (or more active, or whatever goals you might have) friendship? Is she aware of how her behavior is making you feel? If not, that's probably an important conversation to have. 

For a long time, I've felt like I'm not entitled to that kind of thing unless I've earned it. I didn't want her to feel like she owed me anything. But now, I'm not even expecting anything. I do need to tell her, if for anything, just to get it off my chest. Maybe I can get over her more easily that way. Is it selfish of me to bring that kind of issue into her life just to get some closure? 

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6 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

 But the fact that this pains you so much, does make me wonder: are the things that you're missing from your friend, things you could get in your actual romantic relationship?

Don't you think I've considered that? But I can't ignore the fact that some things you just can't get from romantic intimacy. I don't know how to explain it. When I think of her, the feeling I get is just different, and can't be fulfilled by my romantic partner, as close as we are. It is what it is.

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1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

Your can't get them from any romantic relationship by definition? It is possible - I'd say necessary - to be really really good friends with your romantic partner. 

Yes, he's my best friend, and sometimes I can only see him that way, not romantically. But I think I know my feelings better than anyone, and I can tell you, there's just some things I can't talk to him about, some interests he doesn't have, and emotional needs he can't fulfill. This is why as humans we need multiple relationships. There's no such thing as a one size fits all.

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Calligraphette_Coe
20 hours ago, MSBThePale said:

I've had discussions about this topic before but I just need to rant.

 

It's already so hard for me to make friends but lately I feel like I've been getting better and more social lately. And that's great because while I'm grayro, in a romantic relationship, I still crave platonic relationships.

 

But I have a huge squish on this friend of mine. And she seems like the one person in my friend group that I haven't gotten any closer to this year, because she spends almost 24/7 with her boyfriend.

 

I've been patient, I want her to be happy. But it's still so frustrating that she never makes any time for her friends because of him! And he's a great guy dont get me wrong, but so great you just ignore your friends? It's just not fair.

Que sera, sera. So many times romantic relationships that burn twice as bright only burn half as long, so somewhere down the road she well may need a shoulder to cry on. Look at it this way-- you'll often have lots of romantic relastionships throughout your life, but only a very, very few durable friendships. 

 

It could be worse, you know? They may break up and in commiserating with you, she could really make you feel miserable by saying " Just once, I wish I could find a longterm relationship with someone as nice as you."

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2 hours ago, Calligraphette_Coe said:

Que sera, sera. So many times romantic relationships that burn twice as bright only burn half as long, so somewhere down the road she well may need a shoulder to cry on. Look at it this way-- you'll often have lots of romantic relastionships throughout your life, but only a very, very few durable friendships. 

I guess when you put it that way, it does make me feel a little better, but it still bums me out that following that logic, I'd have to wait for her to have her heartbroken to get the chance to spend time with her or bond emotionally.

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Calligraphette_Coe
10 hours ago, MSBThePale said:

I guess when you put it that way, it does make me feel a little better, but it still bums me out that following that logic, I'd have to wait for her to have her heartbroken to get the chance to spend time with her or bond emotionally.

:::sighs::: I wish I had a better answer, I know how painful it can be. While I was sick and spending weeks in the hospital this year, I lost a close friend when he lost his battle with kidney disease. I didn't even know he had died until 2 months later, and found it a profound loss that I didn't get to say goodbye to him or even attend his funeral. 

 

The poet Emily Dickinson said " My friends are my estate." It's almost as if, when you lose one or are long apart from one, you lose part of yourself.  As though you lost a fellow traveller on what sometimes feels like The Trail of Tears that is our lives. But just as Winter yields to the renewal that Spring brings, sometimes what goes into hibernation awakes to you renewed if you can just make it through the cold times.

 

Just a thought? Could you send her a friendship card to let her know you look forward to that Spring? Write a platonic message letting her know she is missed. And then wait as patiently as you can with crossed fingers...

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