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Straight Nonbinary

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GingerRose

What does it mean when a nonbinary person says they are straight? Straight is a word primarily used for male and female...

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Sarah-Sylvia
51 minutes ago, GingerRose said:

What does it mean when a nonbinary person says they are straight? Straight is a word primarily used for male and female...

 

It kind of doesn't make sense. The only thing I can think of is that straight for enby could mean they're referring to their biological sex for some reason. Else, maybe they identify 'more' as one gender than the other, and are attracted to the opposite of that.

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Real Jazz Hands
1 hour ago, GingerRose said:

What does it mean when a nonbinary person says they are straight? 

In whose mind? In mine it doesn't mean anything. 

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GingerRose
4 minutes ago, Real Jazz Hands said:

In whose mind? In mine it doesn't mean anything. 

I have seen some people on here define as it and got confused.

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Sarah-Sylvia

Here's a funny scenario I thought up. What if someone is genderfluid, and they're always straight in whatever gender they are? :P
So when they feel male, they're attracted to women, and when they're female they're attracted to men. I bet it exists 'somewhere' out there.

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Real Jazz Hands
8 minutes ago, GingerRose said:

I have seen some people on here define as it and got confused.

To me, nonbinary means neither one side of that particular coin, nor the other: i. e. neither straight nor gay. Nor does it mean both. It's a view from a completely different paradigm. 

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Sarah-Sylvia
8 minutes ago, Real Jazz Hands said:

To me, nonbinary means neither one side of that particular coin, nor the other: i. e. neither straight nor gay. Nor does it mean both. It's a view from a completely different paradigm. 

Non-binary just means not being 'just' male or female. Someone can be more one gender thatn the other, or it can be complicated. But usually I still don't know anyone who considers themselves straight as enby, it's a pretty confusing thing to say :P

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Saturn.BOO!
8 minutes ago, Real Jazz Hands said:

neither straight nor gay.

Nonbinary in this case refers to gender, not orientation.

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KiraS

Although people with zero tolerance for ambiguity want to act as if there are clear dividing lines between sexual orientations and genders, that's just a myth. So yes, there are straight modes of attraction that include trans and nonbinary people. And there are trans and nonbinary people who identify as straight because there's a long-standing niche for straight people to do that. It's not the sort of thing you'd talk about at a Baptist potluck, but it's been around for at least a century.

 

The penumbra of nonbinary includes more than a few people who ID as both nonbinary and man/woman.

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KiraS

Also, defining nonbinary gender exclusively as third- (or fourth- or fifth-) gender-identified is kind of missing the point that gender is flexible, fluid, and kinda arbitrary.

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Sarah-Sylvia
8 minutes ago, KiraS said:

Although people with zero tolerance for ambiguity want to act as if there are clear dividing lines between sexual orientations and genders, that's just a myth. So yes, there are straight modes of attraction that include trans and nonbinary people. And there are trans and nonbinary people who identify as straight because there's a long-standing niche for straight people to do that. It's not the sort of thing you'd talk about at a Baptist potluck, but it's been around for at least a century.

 

The penumbra of nonbinary includes more than a few people who ID as both nonbinary and man/woman.

? But what does it 'mean' for someone enby to be straight? straight means being attracted to the opposite gender.

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Sarah-Sylvia

Ideally, if an enby doesn't identify as 'non binary women/man', then there's the other orientation terms they can use, to avoid confusion.

But it's really up to them :P

"

Androsexual/Androphilic: attracted to males, men, and/or masculinity

Gynesexual/Gynephilic: attracted to females, women, and/or femininity

Skoliosexual: attracted to genderqueer and transsexual people and expressions (people who aren’t identified as cisgender)
"

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KiraS
1 minute ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

? But what does it 'mean' for someone enby to be straight? straight means being attracted to the opposite gender.

The penumbra of nonbinary includes many people who identify as both nonbinary and male or female. Rebecca Sugar, for example, self-describes as a nonbinary bi woman because even though she's nonbinary, she also experiences the same gender-based discrimination as a woman. Kate Bornstein self-described in early editions of "Gender Outlaw" as a trans lesbian, because their primary relationship was seen that way. There are lifestyle crossdressers who ID as straight men.

 

2 minutes ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

Ideally, if an enby doesn't identify as 'non binary women/man', then there's the other orientation terms they can use, to avoid confusion.

But it's really up to them :P

It's only confusing if your understanding of gender and sexual diversity is purely theoretical. In fact, I'd argue that the primary mode of trans erasure is redefining us as gay, lesbian, or straight crossdressers, who already are well-known as cultural subcultures.

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Unleash the Echidnas
1 hour ago, GingerRose said:

What does it mean when a nonbinary person says they are straight?

I think it's probably best to ask the nonbinary person in question to clarify.

 

Just now, GingerRose said:

I have seen some people on here define as it and got confused.

That would include me, though I don't think I've ever posted about it.

 

In my case, it means that, to the extent I feel female, I'm interested in men and, to the extent I feel male, I'm attracted to women. I thought for a while this meant I was bi but it differs enough in the details I don't think that's the best way of describing it. Bisexuality means being cool with matching your body up with either binary. But both of them weird me out. One's a mental mismatch and the other's a physical mismatch. The result is I'm not allo because the necessary body-mind congruence just doesn't exist. I am romantic and sex-positive, though, and the three relationships I've been were all initiated by cis het allos interested in my birth sex. All but one were ended by my partners because they wanted a more reliable and more extensive sexual connection than I'm capable of.

 

Similarly, I don't think it's responsible to describe myself as being pansexual since that's usually seen as a superset of bisexuality. Besides I've never knowingly met someone who's nonbinary IRL. So it's functionally irrelevant in my case since the transfolk I know all happen to be ones who are binary.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

it's a pretty confusing thing to say

Only took me like 25 years to figure it out. :P It's really in the past decade I've been seeing enough genderqueer discussion for there to be a noticeable probability of this particular niche case coming up. Some of that's a result of when and where I grew up, though.

 

1 minute ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

What if someone is genderfluid, and they're always straight in whatever gender they are?

That's a little bit how it works for me. I would say the idea's mainly useful as a conceptual baseline, though, since I hardly ever feel like I'm more than about 70% of one binary gender or the other. It is a major factor in my being demi since I'm not so much genderfluid as genderviscous. Takes me months to be sure I'm interested enough in someone that the interest will hold up OK even when I'm most gender mismatched. Often it doesn't. Plus a lot of people don't want to wait that long anyways.

 

1 minute ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

But what does it 'mean' for someone enby to be straight?

In my case mostly it means I have occasional heteroromantic flights of fancy I'm incredibly reluctant to act on (I would say unwilling, except there was one person once, after an unusual sequence of things happened to both of us).

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KiraS

Nobody outside of internet subcultures understands "androsexual," which erases big differences in experience between AMAB queer people and straight women. I am routinely clocked as a queen or fairy, which means that as a genderqueer person, I have much more in common with Billy Porter, a GNC gay man, than I do with my heterosexual mother. And since my experiences are intersectional with gay culture, and almost entirely within the umbrella of bi culture, it only makes sense to use those terms contextually.

 

Defining any of those sexual orientations strictly according to greco-latin roots erases that those sexualities exist in a cultural context and are culturally constructed to different degrees. And again, gatekeeping nonbinary to just third-gender-identified people is missing the entire effing point. Especially since terms like "transgender," "nonbinary," and "genderqueer" were advocated as neutral replacements to describe gender identities and expressions that had historically lived under the umbrella of straight, gay, and lesbian culture.

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Sarah-Sylvia
1 hour ago, KiraS said:

The penumbra of nonbinary includes many people who identify as both nonbinary and male or female. Rebecca Sugar, for example, self-describes as a nonbinary bi woman because even though she's nonbinary, she also experiences the same gender-based discrimination as a woman. Kate Bornstein self-described in early editions of "Gender Outlaw" as a trans lesbian, because their primary relationship was seen that way. There are lifestyle crossdressers who ID as straight men.

 

It's only confusing if your understanding of gender and sexual diversity is purely theoretical. In fact, I'd argue that the primary mode of trans erasure is redefining us as gay, lesbian, or straight crossdressers, who already are well-known as cultural subcultures.

It has to be clear enough or else people will be confused. And it can actually be very rude to call someone enby straight or gay since most of them don't want to be identified as one binary gender or the other. Doesn't have to do with theoretical, it has to do with being clear so that we can respect the trans community.

 

I'm a non binary trans woman. But I don't mention the non-binary, because I like simplicity. Could change at some point tho.

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Zimmermikeee

I identify as straight nb and use "straight" label based on my biological sex and attraction towards opposite gender

Ik that it might confuse ppl but it's my personal preference

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Sarah-Sylvia
32 minutes ago, Zimmermikeee said:

I identify as straight nb and use "straight" label based on my biological sex and attraction towards opposite gender

Ik that it might confuse ppl but it's my personal preference

Ok well there you go, it's good to hear from someone who uses the labels.

Do you try to present androgynous?  Just curious.
What I can say is that it's impossible to know if you like men or women if you only say you're straight. Maybe you like ambiguity tho.

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Grey-Ace Ventura

I've seen an agender person identify as straight because they don't have a gender, so the opposite gender for them is anyone who has a gender.

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Sarah-Sylvia
2 minutes ago, Grey-Ace Ventura said:

I've seen an agender person identify as straight because they don't have a gender, so the opposite gender for them is anyone who has a gender.

That's weird, but it does have some logic lol. Do they really not like other agender people?

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Life Of Tass

I'm a nonbinary lesbian, meaning that I'm a woman only insofar that I'm a lesbian, and in every aspect of my life apart from my (romantic and sexual) attraction to women, I feel disconnected from womanhood, and am gender neutral. Maybe it's the same concept for some straight nonbinary individuals? They might also be transmasculine nonbinary people who are attracted to women, or transfeminine nonbinary people who are attracted to men, and would rather use the term "straight" to define that attraction, because they don't want to be thought of as GNC gay individuals, because they're not, and the term "straight" clears up some confusion. But I'm not in a position to speak for straight nonbinary individuals, as I'm not one.

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Sarah-Sylvia
12 minutes ago, Life Of Tass said:

I'm a nonbinary lesbian, meaning that I'm a woman only insofar that I'm a lesbian, and in every aspect of my life apart from my (romantic and sexual) attraction to women, I feel disconnected from womanhood, and am gender neutral. Maybe it's the same concept for some straight nonbinary individuals? They might also be transmasculine nonbinary people who are attracted to women, or transfeminine nonbinary people who are attracted to men, and would rather use the term "straight" to define that attraction, because they don't want to be thought of as GNC gay individuals, because they're not, and the term "straight" clears up some confusion. But I'm not in a position to speak for straight nonbinary individuals, as I'm not one.

Interesting. So you only feel womanhood in the relationships?
'Lesbian' is more descriptive than 'straight' tho, because at least it implies that you're a woman at least when it comes to relationships, and that you're attracted to women.

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kiaroskuro
4 hours ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

Here's a funny scenario I thought up. What if someone is genderfluid, and they're always straight in whatever gender they are? :P
So when they feel male, they're attracted to women, and when they're female they're attracted to men. I bet it exists 'somewhere' out there.

This isn't even so very far-fetched. I'm not genderfluid, but no matter the gender of the person I'm attracted to, it's always feel likes a 'homo-attraction'.  There's always a strong sense of gender-sameness with the person that catches my interest. But this doesn't change the fact that my psychosocial identity is nonbinary and I don't want my body to be more 'gender-neutral' or masculine.

 

Man, this threads reminds me of just how much I dislike gender identity and orientation (micro-)labels. No offense meant.

 

31 minutes ago, Life Of Tass said:

I'm a nonbinary lesbian, meaning that I'm a woman only insofar that I'm a lesbian, and in every aspect of my life apart from my (romantic and sexual) attraction to women, I feel disconnected from womanhood, and am gender neutral.

Interesting, that sounds a bit familiar. I guess I tend to feel less dysphoric around lesbians because our same-sex / same-gender attraction is a common denominator.

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Sarah-Sylvia
3 minutes ago, kiaroskuro said:

This isn't even so very far-fetched. I'm not genderfluid, but no matter the gender of the person I'm attracted to, it's always feel likes a 'homo-attraction'.  There's always a strong of gender-sameness with the person that catches my interest. But this doesn't change the fact that my psychosocial identity is nonbinary and I don't want my body to be more 'gender-neutral' or masculine.

 

Man, this threads reminds me of just how much I dislike gender identity and orientation (micro-)labels. No offense meant.

It definitely shakes things up when you see how much people can be different and that changes how they'll not just identify but use the labels. Definitely can be confusing :P

I can relate to the sameness thing a little, at least before I found that I could like guys. I just mostly always want to feel female in a relationship so in the end it's not too complicated.. just. bi.

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Life Of Tass
19 minutes ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

Interesting. So you only feel womanhood in the relationships?

As I haven't been in a relationship yet, I can only confidently say I'm a woman in my capacity to be attracted to women in a non-platonic, sapphic way, while in any other facet of my life I feel hesitant in saying I'm a woman, going for gender neutral, gender ambiguous or, in the absence of these options, male options instead (which are not my first choice, as I can feel just as uncomfortable with manhood as with womanhood). I can also maybe feel comfortable within womanhood, only when my non-straight identity is openly and explicitly acknowledged. The best way I can describe it is "I'm a lesbian, but not a woman". A bit odd, I know, but I also know I'm definitely not the only one, as there both currently are, and historically have been, many other nonbinary lesbians in lesbian/sapphic communities.

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gemrisingbitch

Basically, there are a few reasons. 

 

1. The person could be fem or masc aligned

2. It may be more convenient

3. It may be based on the opposite sex

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kiaroskuro
18 minutes ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

It definitely shakes things up when you see how much people can be different and that changes how they'll not just identify but use the labels. Definitely can be confusing :P

I can relate to the sameness thing a little, at least before I found that I could like guys. I just mostly always want to feel female in a relationship so in the end it's not too complicated.. just. bi.

You know, I believe that all that matters is that we are seen for who we really are. 🙂 Labels can help us with that, but so often people do indeed use them differently. And that's where the problems and the fights begin.

So, in the words of Bartleby the scrivener: "I would prefer not to (fight and constantly feel the need to explain and justify myself)."

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Rynn

Some posts have been hidden. Please remain respectful. If a topic gets too heated, step away to cool down and come back to it later.

Ryn, moderator.

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Zimmermikeee
13 hours ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

Do you try to present androgynous?  Just curious.
What I can say is that it's impossible to know if you like men or women if you only say you're straight. Maybe you like ambiguity tho.

I try to present neutral. And if ppl doubt about whom I like, they simply ask me, I don't mind telling it

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Sarah-Sylvia
5 hours ago, Zimmermikeee said:

I try to present neutral. And if ppl doubt about whom I like, they simply ask me, I don't mind telling it

Ok. One more question if it's not too much. Why do you choose to identify your sexual orientation through your biological sex?

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