LostPenguin Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 Montel has a synopsis of the upcoming show on asexuality on his website, including the list of guests (two docs, DJ, Hu, Winter, Keith, Greybird; don't mean to be ignorant, but uh...unless you are one of the docs I didn't see you, summerseeker):http://www.montelshow.com/show/?showID=5051 The first line of the synopsis says: "There is a growing community of people who say that they are asexual; that they have absolutely no sex drive." Isn't that not correct? As I understand it asexuality is not a lack of a sex drive, it is a lack of sexual attraction. Or am I wrong? You're right. Their mistake. Yeah, you're not wrong. But it seems that the line drawn between the two is very narrow if not nonexistant to people who don't think about this kind of thing on a regular basis. The show'll go into detail, though, so I'm not too worried. More importantly, *GROAN* Is Dr. Joy the same person they had on 20/20, the really obnoxious one that pretty much everyone here was irritated by? I can't recall, but the info on the side about what she has to say about it sounds quite a lot like it... *snarls* Link to post Share on other sites
M51 Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 Egads, yes, same Dr. Joy. I just watched that segment again and just got really pissed at it again. Maybe this isn't the right place for this rant but this thread is what spurred it so here goes. Can't miss what you haven't had? I've had it. Still don't miss it. I've quite possibly had more sex than a lot of sexuals, thanks to my sex-crazed ex. I've tried everything. Pills, different positions, alcohol, different foreplay, role playing, different partners (not while I was married), dominant, submissive, different styles, different everything...you name it. I tried. Nothing got me going. I've tried men. I've tried women. I've tried BOTH men and women at the same time!! I challenge Dr. Joy to compare HER sexual experiences to mine! I think the fact that I am fully physiologically functioning - in fact I orgasm more ways and easier than a lot of sexual women I've talked to - yet still feel no desire and no pleasure - clinches the deal. I am asexual. I have had no trauma. No abuse. No religious repression. In fact, I talk so openly about sex and sexuality that most people assume I am some sort of nympho (they don't distinguish that most of my sex talk is of a scientific nature, not a lustful nature - like my fascination with bonobos). I was predisposed to want to be sexual. I always imagined it would be some great thing. I was devastated when it was not. Labeling myself asexual becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy? I was asexual for years before I finally embraced that label. The asexuality was there LOOOONG before the label. Not curious? Unadventurous? Narrow-minded? Blind to possibilities? Who me? Are you freakin kidding? Does she have any clue what she is talking about? None of those labels have EVER applied to me. Funny how she can label us but condescends our ability to label ourselves. Okay, and finally...Liver and Cate I totally apologize if a few thoughts on your situation offends you or if I am totally wrong... Asexual: a person who does not experience sexual attraction. Just because you have sex does not disqualify you as asexual. Obviously, or I would be WAY disqualified. Just because you have sex with another asexual does not disqualify you. Sex is just an activity. Something you can do. Something you can do together. And because it involves a lot of intimate body parts, it is an intimate activity, whether you feel driven to do it or not. Whether you are sexual or not. The intimacy of sex is part of the reason compromising with a sexual by having sex is not the same as playing chess or watching football to please your partner. No doubt sex is an intimate activity. Sharing it with someone who feels the same about it increases its intimacy. Sharing it with someone who does not feel the same about it can be very damaging. There have been times, when I felt really loving towards my partner, that I have enjoyed sex as a means of being close. But it was still something I did FOR my partner. It was not something I would have come up with myself. So if Cate and Liver explored the activity of sex as a means of being close, good for them. It does not take away the fundamental lack of sexual desire that they (I am assuming) still experience. If I ever end up in a relationship with another asexual who has not had sex, and he wants to try it, I will go for it. It may even be kind of fun, like intimate role playing (look, we're acting like sexuals! wee!). Maybe it would be like play-wrestling, with a little more involvement, maybe and no competition. That could be fun. Or like when neither of you have ice skated but you decide to try and have tons of fun bumbling through it together. Doesn't mean you're on your way to the freakin sexual olympics. Sex might actually even be MORE enjoyable with an asexual partner because I could trust my asexual partner not to push it further than I want, or not to push me to do it again and again and again, so I would be able to experience the ACT without the pressure of BECOMING the act. If that makes sense. So Cate and Liver, I don't know what you two experienced. But I think it bears examining before anyone - let alone narrow minded, uncurious, blind-to-the-possibilities Dr. Joy - disqualifies you two as asexuals. Did you feel the fire sexuals talk about? Or did you just have fun doing something intimate together? Because I have had fun being intimate and sexually playful with a partner. All my anatomy was working just fine, and it was fun. But there was no fire. And without that kind of partner I have no desire to ever have sex again. Even with that kind of partner, I have experienced all I feel the (curious and adventurous) need to experience, so I wouldn't bring it up unless he wanted to, and would do it more to fulfill his desire/curiosity than mine. So I am still asexual. And if Cate and Liver were just fooling around out of curiosity or playfulness or a desire for a different way to show intimacy...so are they. And even if they felt the "fire"...that doesn't disqualify anyone else, or take away from the asexual community in any way. Suppose for a second that all of us asexuals are actually really hyposexuals who just need absolute trust and absolutely no pressure in order to feel our miniscule sexuality. Does that really fundamentally change our situation? We still need to compromise with sexuals who do put that pressure on us. We still ideally would want to find someone else like us in order to fully experience ourselves. We are still fundamentally different from sexuals who have no conditions on their sexuality. What, really, are the chances of me finding my Liver and figuring out how to stimulate my latent sexuality? Pretty damn slim. Which means I am still alone, and still asexual until it happens. Maybe I should get an email address for Dr. Joy and send this to her. But she wouldn't get it, I'm sure. Argh. *Rant Complete* (Cate and Liver if any of this offends you I will promptly delete it - just let me know. (I do not presume to have the right or authority to discuss your situation, these are just some thoughts I've been having because EVERYBODY brings that damn 20/20 segment up, implying that you two disqualify the very idea of asexuality. (By everybody I mean the asexuality phone interview researcher, actually.))) Link to post Share on other sites
thylacine Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 I agree 100% with you. Excellent rant. Gonna print it out & frame it & hang it on my wall. We oughta e-mail that off to Dr. Joy "Pain in the Butt" Davison. Link to post Share on other sites
Charlieee Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 *thundering standing ovation* :D I agree with sending it to her, as well. We get a bow and arrow, stick the rant through the arrow and shoot it at her door. Or, preferably, the wall above her icky head and let it dangle in her face like a bad itch :) Link to post Share on other sites
deladangerous Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Dr. Joy Davidson, a sex therapist who warns that labeling oneself as “asexual” can be dangerous, will also be here. Danger's my middle name, baby.. Link to post Share on other sites
SummerSeeker Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 ["M51" wrote]Montel has a synopsis of the upcoming show on asexuality on his website, including the list of guests (two docs, DJ, Hu, Winter, Keith, Greybird; don't mean to be ignorant, but uh...unless you are one of the docs I didn't see you, summerseeker): http://www.montelshow.com/show/?showID=5051 M51, you are right. I read the synopsis as well and I think I was edited out. I was only on for a couple of minutes and I guess I was not TV material. Oh well, better luck next time I guess. Link to post Share on other sites
SolonOH Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Montel has a synopsis of the upcoming show on asexuality on his website' date=' including the list of guests (two docs, DJ, Hu, Winter, Keith, Greybird; don't mean to be ignorant, but uh...unless you are one of the docs I didn't see you, summerseeker):http://www.montelshow.com/show/?showID=5051 M51, you are right. I read the synopsis as well and I think I was edited out. I was only on for a couple of minutes and I guess I was not TV material. Oh well, better luck next time I guess. Hmmm... I certainly hope that is not the case. I gave up on television years ago & don't assign it or Montel much credibility, creative editing is a case in point. Although they have done a wonderful job and shown a lot of guts to date, I sincerely hope the folks at AVEN take care and responsibility in their choice of media outlets to get the word out. These people are professionals and they have no qualms in editing your appearance or creating a conflict with someone like Dr Joy to generate ratings. Can't miss what you haven't had? I've had it. Still don't miss it. Well said M51. I watched the 20/20 segment on you-tube a while back, and though time may have fogged my memory, asexuals seemed to be portrayed as naive virgins who just didn't know any better; thus Dr. Joys remarks. I certainly hope the Montel show does not come off this way, opinions and experiences like yours need to be brought to the forefront. Link to post Share on other sites
jaybird721 Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 *gives M51 10 points* Link to post Share on other sites
Hallucigenia Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 *gives M51 10 points* Where's Karma when you need it? :D Link to post Share on other sites
jaybird721 Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 *gives M51 10 points* Where's Karma when you need it? :D There is no karma. There is only Nikki-points. 8) Link to post Share on other sites
Rabger Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 The first line of the synopsis says:"There is a growing community of people who say that they are asexual; that they have absolutely no sex drive." Isn't that not correct? As I understand it asexuality is not a lack of a sex drive, it is a lack of sexual attraction. Or am I wrong? You're right, they are wrong. I suggest everyone get ready to be disappointed. I would love for them to do a good job on explaining asexuality, but given past experience, they usually get it wrong. Even this shows that they are getting it wrong. When we did the Discovery show years ago, I wasnt happy with it even though I was part of it. We the asexuals did a great job of answering questions, but some of the "experts" were idiots and the overall commentary just didn't get it at all. Im betting this show is going to do exactly what the above says, make it look like all asexuals have no sexual drive. That isn't even close to correct, and it going to make us look like we all have medical problems and are in denial about it. Link to post Share on other sites
M51 Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Well, I like to think that at least it gets the idea that asexuality is a possibility out there, even if some of the assumptions are wrong. And someone recently joined who saw the 20/20 cut, which I don't think was necessarily all accurate. So other asexuals may see and recognize themselves, even if the sexuals still don't get it. Link to post Share on other sites
KAGU143 Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 It's all in the hands of the editors. We will know soon. *chews nails* I think we did okay, especially DJ, who more or less took over the whole show for a while, but, unfortunately, the way they structured the show allowed Dr. Joy to have the last word. We weren't given time to respond to her narrow-minded, biased views. As far as I'm concerned, we need a follow-up episode to confront a lot of what she said. To be fair, though, I think she SLIGHTLY backed away from the hard-nosed position she took during the 20/20 show. Her biggest semi-valid gripe seemed to be that AVEN doesn't put more emphasis on physical conditions that can appear to be asexuality. She wants us to refer all prospective members to their doctors for mental and physical evaluation. (Because, ya know, that's how she makes a living ... :roll: ) She did (reluctantly) admit that there might be SOME genuine asexuals, but she isn't willing to accept it as a normal variation. Yet. -GB Link to post Share on other sites
str8fuknpimpin Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 whoa. i'm scared. i prolly won't watch it. i'll just get pissed off Link to post Share on other sites
LostPenguin Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 I think we did okay, especially DJ, who more or less took over the whole show for a while, but, unfortunately, the way they structured the show allowed Dr. Joy to have the last word. We weren't given time to respond to her narrow-minded, biased views. Uggggh.. I was afraid of that. I was pretty happy at first because I realized the format of the show would allow for that sort of thing, but man, what a pain in the rear. She desperately deserves to have a debate with someone who knows what they're talking about and to get taken to the mat, ARGH! It makes me sick that she's allowed to have the last word in all the interviews she's participated in given we're the ones who should really be having the say in what we are. As far as I'm concerned, we need a follow-up episode to confront a lot of what she said. To be fair, though, I think she SLIGHTLY backed away from the hard-nosed position she took during the 20/20 show.Her biggest semi-valid gripe seemed to be that AVEN doesn't put more emphasis on physical conditions that can appear to be asexuality. She wants us to refer all prospective members to their doctors for mental and physical evaluation. (Because, ya know, that's how she makes a living ... :roll: ) She did (reluctantly) admit that there might be SOME genuine asexuals, but she isn't willing to accept it as a normal variation. Peachy keen. I'm glad she's slightly backed up, but I expect it'll be gripe-worthy anyhow.. It's interesting that she mentioned that she felt that AVEN doesn't put an emphasis on physical conditions and whatnot that can appear to be asexuality, because I always felt that there was a barrier here between the two and that the more I talked about being uncomfortable with sex/avoidant of it the more I'd get accused of not being asexual but something else. There's some post somewhere by DJ (I think) about that, and how people with no sex drive or who are incapable of arousal might want to get checked up instead of assuming they're asexual, blah blah, that's where I got the idea. I've learned since that the community here doesn't really adhere to it, which is yay for me, but pbbth to Joy. And frankly, that's irritating and so assuming of her to want us to do that with prospective and new members. Geez. I would've been horrified if I came here way back in '03, trying to find myself and feeling glad that there was a community here for people who were the same as me sexually but still feeling a bit distant and all... and the initial posts to me were "Hey, nice to meet you, but you might want to see a doctor first to make sure you really deserve to be in our club, maybe a psychiatrist too, after all, your parts just might not be functioning because you got traumatized as a kid or maybe you need to start popping pills so you can belong to the boff-happy part of the population! Have some " It's an exaggeration, but I can easily imagine people being utterly scared away from both AVEN and their potential identities because of it. Not to mention the fact that the vast majority of people here at AVEN seem to be quite reluctant to go see a doctor and have them start prodding around to make sure everything's in functioning order with their reproductive organs and genitals. RRGH! This woman never ceases to infuriate me... and it's depressing, as she was one of the first so-called experts we saw on the subject and the shows following 20/20 contained experts and show hosts that seemed to be far more open to the concept.... Whatever happened to that woman who was on that one early morning show? I don't remember her name or the name of the show, I just remember one of our couples was on it and was getting seemingly irritated at being asked over and over about wanting sex... but the expert seemed to be really positive about it, that it was a perfectly normal variation and that there was nothing wrong with it. *mumbles* Link to post Share on other sites
Cacille Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 I found the promo for the montel show, and downloaded it. Hu, if you'd like to get it from me later on so you can upload it to youtube, I'll definitely send it over. It's a very very small picture though. My alarm clock is set, roomies have been notified that I will be watching the TV at 10am sharp (My tv is in their room currently) and if they don't like it, too bad! Someone else have their camcorder ready? Link to post Share on other sites
jaybird721 Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 I have to say, I have a hard time trusting Joy Davison's opinions... after all, what she's telling me is that there's something wrong with me if I'm not interested in sex. And, well, that's kind of what she's in the business of selling. It's like when a commercial tells me I don't know what I'm missing out on by not driving a Ford or using a Sony laptop or having AOL... Link to post Share on other sites
FelineFanatic Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 If it really bothers anyone, you can always write your own story and send it on to the show. (You must be over 13.) If there are enough responses they will see it is a hot topic and perhaps do more on it. http://www.montelshow.com/tell/ Link to post Share on other sites
AVENguy Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 I hate it when they call me a virgin. Though at least we get to be dangerous: Dr. Joy Davidson, a sex therapist who warns that labeling oneself as “asexual” can be dangerous, will also be here. *strikes my asexy danger pose* It'll be a good show, we got some good points across even if they got derailed at the end. It might behoove us to post about inviting scientists and doctors to join our discussion on the front page, since we're going to get hit with that during the show. Link to post Share on other sites
AVENguy Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 I recreated the asexual health section of the wiki with this in mind. Link to post Share on other sites
Charlieee Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 We should set up something like The View, except DJ vs JD :D Link to post Share on other sites
Hallucigenia Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 We should set up something like The View, except DJ vs JD :D DJ vs JD: The ultimate showdown! ...except now I'm thinking of JD transforming into Godzilla and DJ sprouting laser guns from his shoulders and stuff. :D It would sure attract ratings. Link to post Share on other sites
thylacine Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Ahem... (thylacine butts in to conversation)... Hey, guys... the synopsis of the show says that Dr. Anthony Bogaert will discuss his theories of asexuality. Does anyone know just what are his theories... ? Link to post Share on other sites
Hallucigenia Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Tony Bogaert's on our side. I know some AVENites in the area who have been talking with him. He's a researcher at Brock University who's done studies of asexuality, and has a paper written (but not published yet afaik) about how it should be accepted as a legitimate orientation. I'm glad they've put him on the show. Link to post Share on other sites
Niemand Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I think Dr. Bogaert is the doctor who's done research on asexuality and believes its a valid orientation. I could be wrong, though. Edit: Dang, Hallu beat me to it. :) Link to post Share on other sites
Xenon Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 The entire show is about asexuality. The only thing is that Dr Joy is on also (the same one that was on 20/20). GreyBird and Keith are on, as well as DJ, Winter and Hu, and myself. The Montel people set it up so that the end of the show is a showdown between us and Dr. Joy. I think they were going for conflict, but I think we were all too well composed to give them what they wanted. It should be interesting to see how they edit the show. "That's strange... I don't recall throwing a chair at Dr. Joy..." :lol: Link to post Share on other sites
M51 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Well, I found the show on my DirecTV guide. Channel 17/NBC. 3 pm so I MIGHT be able to get off early and watch it. I have no means to record it, though. The DirecTV description: "People who say they have no sex drive." Hmm. Link to post Share on other sites
Charlieee Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Aww... I'll be corn muffing some West Morris Central buttons when it goes on... (translating: I have a fencing meet, and we shall kick butt :D ) Link to post Share on other sites
DiligoRabek Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 It comes on at 4 here, but I don't think I'll be able to watch it....hopefully some kind soul will put it up on youtube or something :-) Link to post Share on other sites
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