Anti...maskers? Are real?? How?

[Madelise]

Just now, Arodash said:

then dont respond to me? Get frustrated all you want but dont bash your head against a wall you could seriously hurt yourself

It's an expression 🙄

[Madelise]

2 minutes ago, Arodash said:

just making sure

Okay?

[Karst]

3 minutes ago, Arodash said:

it could be that, but theres more to it than just that

What's your take on it?

[Madelise]

Just now, Arodash said:

well I dont want you bashing your head against the wall! Lol gotta make sure you werent going to

Thanks I guess??? I didn't think I'd have to clarify that I wasn't being literal, but whatever.

[Karst]

1 minute ago, Arodash said:

with all the crap that went down from the start, like the government starting off telling people not to wear masks, people dont trust the experts anymore they have flip flopped far too much for them to trust them (the flip flopping is normal though as not all experts agreed, even now, and theres constantly new discoveries) but people dont like flip flopping so you can shove as many stats in their faces, they just dont trust them anymore. 

There needs to be more public understanding that medical/scientific knowledge of the problem is still changing and expanding.

It's not "flip-flopping" any more than it is when traffic advisories change based on new weather updates.

 

Still, it's understandable that people get confused and demoralized when recommendations keep shifting.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

Oh and thank you @Moonman, for bringing that up. As a fellow autistic, I now face the scenario of having to choose between having a meltdown, risking a £100 fine and up their own arse do-gooders whining at me, or simply starving. I'm lucky in that I have access to a motorbiking snood thing from my father, because if it really was just the medical type, I'd simply have to starve.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

3 minutes ago, Arodash said:

you should be able to get a medical exemption because of it. My boss cant wear a mask because of his PTSD

According to my cousin we have to pay £25 for it, and that's too late for tomorrow's shopping trip cos the doctor's is shut. £25 is a lot when you're already on benefits (because you're disabled, exactly the people who actually need these exemptions). Being disabled is expensive, being invisibly disabled gives people free rein to bully you 🙃

[Karst]

11 minutes ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

Oh and thank you @Moonman, for bringing that up. As a fellow autistic, I now face the scenario of having to choose between having a meltdown, risking a £100 fine and up their own arse do-gooders whining at me, or simply starving. I'm lucky in that I have access to a motorbiking snood thing from my father, because if it really was just the medical type, I'd simply have to starve.

This whole situation has been really hard on people with disabilities, and the various governments involved should be doing more to help on that front.

[Karst]

On another note, I think that some anti-maskers are just the kind of people who enjoy fighting back against any kind of authority, no matter how legitimate or well-intentioned.

[Homer]

People aren't complaining about those who can't wear masks for legitimate medical reasons, but about those whose best argument is "but muh freadum! Da guwurnmint is surpresing muh right as a frea sididen!!1!"

[Anthracite_Impreza]

The existence of this thread and its comments shows just how quick people are to pounce on anyone (even seemingly) opposing the system; it really is a vivid display of tribalism at its best.

[what the face]

16 minutes ago, Karst said:

It's just another symptom of people refusing to

 

a) listen to legitimate experts

and

b) make sacrifices to protect the well-being of others.

 

I agree

It is this simple and true.

 

Too many 

     Resist authority (just because)

     Think they can't get sick

     Make entirely self centered decisions

 

[Anthracite_Impreza]

Just now, Arodash said:

I have seen people complain about people who cant wear masks.

There have been some on this very thread.

[Karst]

2 minutes ago, Homer said:

People aren't complaining about those who can't wear masks for legitimate medical reasons, but about those whose best argument is "but muh freadum! Da guwurnmint is surpresing muh right as a frea sididen!!1!"

The people who can wear masks, but choose not to, make people who can't wear masks look bad.

[Eva Blue]

27 minutes ago, Homer said:

Anti-maskers are entirely unsurprising.

That's fair 😂.

 

Like you explained, I guess with human variation, EVENTUALLY you're going to get a few...interesting ideas going around Haha.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

Frankly, I feel I have no right to impose my will on anyone else when it comes to their own body, whatever their reason. The critical dividing line in this entire debate is whether you value security over freedom, or freedom over security. This is a matter of opinion, no one is actually right or wrong, and by calling the opposing side "dumb" all you're doing is proving you can't actually think critically or understand an opposing view.

[Homer]

5 minutes ago, Arodash said:

And I do think theres a legitimate argument that can be had about the government requiring face coverings and it being a violation of free speech

What can't you express while you wear a mask?

[Eva Blue]

6 minutes ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

The existence of this thread and its comments shows just how quick people are to pounce on anyone (even seemingly) opposing the system; it really is a vivid display of tribalism at its best

Hey, that's not entirely fair. 

 

I was legitimately wondering WHY some ppl hate masks with such fervor over what is essentially a strip of cloth. I didn't make this post for "tribalism" or whatever. 

[Anthracite_Impreza]

2 minutes ago, Eva Blue said:

Hey, that's not entirely fair. 

 

I was legitimately wondering WHY some ppl hate masks with such fervor over what is essentially a strip of cloth. I didn't make this post for "tribalism" or whatever. 

Half the posts boil down to "anti maskers are stupid" (often, with those actual words used).

[Karst]

2 minutes ago, Arodash said:

Its not just you being able to express, its that the government cant (at least in the US) compell your speech or expression, and some could argue that forcing someone to wear any article of clothing is compelled expression by the government, and im not here to actually debate that only that people could and are making that argument

If asking people to wear masks is curtailing free speech, so are the laws that restrict public nudity to certain beaches.

[Homer]

2 minutes ago, Arodash said:

some could argue that forcing someone to wear any article of clothing is compelled expression by the government

...but how? How does that even work? Do these people also sue the wind because it makes it harder to be understood, noise and all that?

[Homer]

1 minute ago, Arodash said:

the wind is a force of nature

It's not like that would stop people from suing though, is it

[Karst]

1 minute ago, Arodash said:

 

Bear in mind, part of rights come responsibilities and thats part of the social contract we do need to give a little to get a little

Some people just don't seem to understand that being a citizen/member of society comes with certain obligations.

[Madelise]

3 minutes ago, Arodash said:

I will sue mother nature!!! She dropped a tree on my house!

😂

[Eva Blue]

@Anthracite_Impreza I mean...could they stand to be nicer? Yes. Do they have to be? No, not really. So they've expressed their point, they don't like anti-maskers:heres their reasoning and so have you: and heres your reasoning. I think expressing your opinions shouldn't be equated to "tribalism", since this is a discussion on an ideology I wanted to learn more about. If you see it more as a debate, then just be honest and say you're debating.

 

 

But...hey man, I personally think you're an ok person outta this thread, Just an fyi, I just think maybe you're taking this a bit personally.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

I'm picking on @Arodash to prove my point here. We agree on this topic, we are very much opposed on others, and yet neither of us has ever called the other "stupid", "dumb", "Hitler" or "murderer", as we have both been called on this topic many times before. That is because we are actually capable of respecting each other without immediately resorting to "if you disagree you're an idiot/not one of us/the other/the enemy". That is what tribalism is and that is what happens every time this topic is brought up.

[daveb]

Moved thread to the Philosophy, Politics and Science forum, so it can be discussed alongside a similar thread here:

 

DaveB

Hot Box co-mod

[Knight of Cydonia]

I can understand not wearing a mask if someone has a legitimate medical reason, but other than that I don't see an issue with mandatory mask usage. Not wearing a mask doesn't just put yourself in danger, it also puts those around you in danger. Anyone could be an asymptomatic carrier and infect others. I don't see how mandatory masks are different than requiring seat belts while driving, abiding by speed limits, not drinking and driving, etc.

[Guest]

Haven't worn a mask yet...

 

My AvPD and other mental issues makes me stay home just except for groceries, that I do on non-busy hours. I so much avoid people already by instinct and anxiety...

 

It isn't mandatory here, and the cases have been in my region have been in double digits only... 

 

I will though if again it goes up, even catching it mildly seems to have lasting effects for months...

[MarRister]

I wish this didn't turn into such a political debate as I do think this shouldn't just be turned into a fight solely for personal freedoms. There is more here than just that argument and if you're right-wing or left-wing should have little to nothing to do with it. The only way masks are truly effective is if the vast majority of people are wearing them in public settings. I certainly wish we could just rely on people to do the responsible thing and wear one if they can, but that really doesn't seem to be the case so I certainly understand why governments would institute mandatory wearing of masks. It is the government's responsibility to protect their citizens and try and get the economy up and running as fast as possible, so this does seem like the best way to do it. I don't really understand the slippery slope argument for this, as I don't think localized temporary requirements for masks would lead to anything more serious in terms of infringement of rights, but what do I know 🤷‍♀️ I think we have had a lot more dangerous legislation go through recently that have far bigger impacts on personal freedoms, but it mostly affects the "right" people (aka visible minorities) so that doesn't get nearly the same uproar. 

 

I can think people are dumb or at least misinformed for not wanting to wear masks because they think this virus is all a hoax and this is just a way for the government to take away our freedom of speech and inject us with microchips. But me calling them dumb will never change anyone's mind and will probably just reinforce their mindset. Education and critical thinking skills are key, and I think that is sorely lacking in a lot of ways, especially when it comes to how science actually works. But it is hard to educate people who don't want to learn.

 

Though I certainly don't like the shaming that happens for those who can't wear masks for a legitimate reason. People need to stop jumping to conclusions every time they see someone without a mask on because there is no way to ever know that person's situation just by looking at them. I see it here in Canada a lot but mostly with people jumping down others' throats because their car has an out of province/country license plate, but they really have no idea their circumstances. People may have moved there and haven't been able to change their plates over yet, or in the case of US plates in Winnipeg they actually belonged to army personnel stationed near there. There is definitely those who have broken the rules and are doing tourist things while supposedly heading to Alaska, but I don't think rashly jumping to conclusions is helpful for anyone. I think we need to first assume positive rather than negative. People need to take a moment and actually think and if there is a real concern, report the vehicle/person to the proper authorities and they can figure it out. But yes immediately assuming someone is an evil pile of garbage and leaving aggressive notes or getting into a direct confrontation with them is not at all productive or helpful to anyone.