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Coming out as a non-binary gender identity?


NickyTannock

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:) That new draft looks good.

 

7 minutes ago, MichaelTannock said:

...Being disbelieved always hits me hard, but people do seem to trust my judgement...

That's good; it's also good that your Dad seems to trust your computer skills.

 

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Sarah-Sylvia
18 minutes ago, MichaelTannock said:

@LeChat Being disbelieved always hits me hard, but people do seem to trust my judgement.

 

@Sarah-Sylvia Thank you so much for your suggestions!

 

 

 

This is my new draft.

 

 

Wow that's awesome.
I can tell you took the suggestions to heart, and you did a much better job than I thought, it looks great. I don't have any more, maybe some others who happen to read the thread have ideas, but it's pretty much up to how you like it  for what you want to do on the way.

I just thought of something while reading, I'm trying to remember what it is lol..
Oh yeah, I was thinking about how sometimes people talk to their parents about how a gender therapist is useful in general (not just for transitioning), including to help diagnosis or make sure transition is what you really want, etc. That can sometimes help appease parents when they might doubt if their child is really trans, etc. It can be something useful you can mention with him later or after he's read it, it's up to you but I thought to mention it in case you like that.

Good job and I'm curious about everything :)

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NickyTannock

@LeChat @Sarah-Sylvia Thank you both for your help! Now I need to decide on the right time and be brave enough to go through with it.

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Grey-Ace Ventura

@MichaelTannock Good luck and please let us know how it goes!

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Janus the Fox
On 7/30/2020 at 12:26 AM, MichaelTannock said:

I will look into getting on the NHS gender therapy list, but the fear is there that my dad will find out, and as I said, I don't know how to see a gender therapist without my dad knowing.

I had to go through the Clinical Counselling route first.  That's where I had a whole raft of diagnostic labels attached, including being Autistic.  Doctors will be keen if there's any physical or mental health and the past circumstances.  I discussed Gender here first, once that was spent, got moved to Psychiatry for mental health medication [as an aside I was also referred to Neurology that diagnosed tourettes and other things].  Over time my lack of gender feelings became stronger the more I became better and  being put on a more stricter diet and exercise to qualify for HRT/lower any health risks involving the liver, my relationship with another has rather highlighted my gender difference as well.

 

Eventually Psych gave me a Gender Dysphoric Disorder test, making sure my past depression, mania or psychotic break isn't part of the gender difference thoughts.  I've had Bloods taken in between, a Sex Hormone Landscape testing for about 8 different sex hormones and it's levels along with Liver function hormones, plus 2 others including one for Thyroid Function and Prostate Specific Antigen.  The PSA is an important one for me and the family having a father directly affected by Prostate Cancer and the Thyroid hormone can interact with Libido etc.  If you've never had this blood screening, expect these bloods with some regularity.  My sex hormones have always come back as normal, except for Prolactin, for which is an anomaly being a similar level to that of a Non-Pregnant Women.  It's a good case that I'm intersex in blood as well as the genitals.

 

I took this route as it's faster than trying to go through and waiting for just the GIC referral.  My next step is Endocrinology, given blood bags and to wait for an appointment.  At this moment, due to Covid, no bloods except essential blood clotting tests are being taken.  I'm not expecting any referrals or bloods for the remaining of the year.  With the Prolactin as it is for the last 9 years, HRT will be complex, and the endo will be keen of my past genital medical procedures and every 2 year follow-ups since the age of 4.

 

The process from coming to terms of my Agender, cross-dressing, finding my preference in femme clothing and desiring to become less physically male, wanting more female traits (the process of sex neutralization, the clinical process and to the GDD diagnosis to waiting for endo and bloods was 5 years. 

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NickyTannock

@Janus DarkFox I'm not sure which is the right path for me, but I'm willing to have blood taken regularly if that's necessary.

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Sarah-Sylvia

Before the quarantine I had blood tests every 3-4 months because I'm on hormones. It's important to check where the levels are at, including for if any adjustments need to be made. Eventually you can stop them even if the doctor would like to continue, but I think it's good to have them.

For someone agender, I'm not too familiar what they do, I'm guessing you'd mostly get blockers? But then you'd need medication to keep healthy (including for bones, etc) in addition.

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11 hours ago, MichaelTannock said:

I'm not sure which is the right path for me, but I'm willing to have blood taken regularly if that's necessary.

As far as I know, you have to go to your GP and ask them to refer you to an NHS GDC (Gender Dysphoria Clinic) https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/how-to-find-an-nhs-gender-identity-clinic/.

We've got a very similar system in the Netherlands. I just made an appointment with my GP and in the notes I said 'I would like you to refer me to the gender clinic', with a link to the gender clinic I wanted to be referred to. When I got to the appointment she basically went 'yeah alright' and did it. No uncomfortable questions or me trying to prove myself or anything like that. 

After that I heard nothing from the gender clinic for half a year.

It's very easy to keep secret. Your GP isn't allowed to tell anyone anyway. And you can just tell your family that you've got a spot on your skin you want to have checked out by your GP or something similar, and that's why you went to your GP. 

 

9 hours ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

For someone agender, I'm not too familiar what they do, I'm guessing you'd mostly get blockers? But then you'd need medication to keep healthy (including for bones, etc) in addition.

I'm guessing people would have to decide that for themselves. Enbies are so different from one another, they can't possibly have a standard trajectory.

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Janus the Fox
9 hours ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

For someone agender, I'm not too familiar what they do, I'm guessing you'd mostly get blockers? But then you'd need medication to keep healthy (including for bones, etc) in addition.

For what I’ve read, docs may not do all that much.  There’s options to block several hormones to keep the body hormones balanced for matters of bone health.  On top of the blockers there maybe an introduction of opposite sex hormones at a low level to reduce the sex features one has.  Online sources are limited and it’s only a matter of Patient/Doctor confidentially to discuss.  Personally I do expect to be refused HRT just for blockers but I do wish to be more female personally. 

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NickyTannock

I've printed the letter, and I've decided to leave it out tonight, so my Dad finds it in the morning.

 

Right now, I have so many fears running through my head, like what if coming out is a mistake, or what if I regret transitioning when the time comes.
I've realised that if I leave it too long, I might talk myself out of it, and there will never be a perfect time.

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anisotrophic

@MichaelTannock would you like any more feedback on the letter?
 

As someone that came out at around the same age (slightly older), and is a parent, and has seen older folks come out to even older parents, I might have some suggestions about how to frame it.

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NickyTannock

@anisotrophic I'd appreciate more feedback, thank you!

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Sarah-Sylvia
4 hours ago, MichaelTannock said:

I've printed the letter, and I've decided to leave it out tonight, so my Dad finds it in the morning.

 

Right now, I have so many fears running through my head, like what if coming out is a mistake, or what if I regret transitioning when the time comes.
I've realised that if I leave it too long, I might talk myself out of it, and there will never be a perfect time.

It's a big step, but if it's what you want to do, then remind yourself it's what you want. But I know the worries can stir the doubts and all that. Remember to take time to relax and breathe (when you can). It'll be ok ❤️

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NickyTannock
4 minutes ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

It's a big step, but if it's what you want to do, then remind yourself it's what you want. But I know the worries can stir the doubts and all that. Remember to take time to relax and breathe (when you can). It'll be ok ❤️

Thank you! I've found that reminding myself of every time I've felt wrong but ignored my feelings helps me realise that it's who I am, and what I want. I'm taking time to relax and breath now.

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Sarah-Sylvia
37 minutes ago, MichaelTannock said:

Thank you! I've found that reminding myself of every time I've felt wrong but ignored my feelings helps me realise that it's who I am, and what I want. I'm taking time to relax and breath now.

That's good :)

 

5 hours ago, Janus DarkFox said:

For what I’ve read, docs may not do all that much.  There’s options to block several hormones to keep the body hormones balanced for matters of bone health.  On top of the blockers there maybe an introduction of opposite sex hormones at a low level to reduce the sex features one has.  Online sources are limited and it’s only a matter of Patient/Doctor confidentially to discuss.  Personally I do expect to be refused HRT just for blockers but I do wish to be more female personally. 

From what I know, it's the blockers themselves that can cause possible health issues including with bone health, because our bodies use the regular hormones (testosterone or estrogen) for that, so if we block them we need something to replace how they helped. I've heard some medications can help, but the best is obviously to have either or both hormones.

Someone who wants to go for a more androgynous effect could try to just add the opposite sex hormone to have a balance, or block a little but not too much, but taking a hormone will still make changes, like taking estrogen will make you grow breasts to some degree, even with just a little (it'll just be slower the less you take). So you have to know what you want and what options you like best for yourself.

Someone can also just purely socially transition with clothes, behaviour, and some kind of make up or whatever helps feel better. Hopefully both you and Michael find what works for yous. I am curious. :)

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Hi. I just thought I'd send positive vibes, again, for what you plan to do, today.

 

I feel nervous for you, too. I really wish you had a therapist, already, who'd be able to help you feel more confident, give you advice on coming out, what to say, what to do in case your Dad doesn't accept it, etc. I'm thinking that your Dad might think or have a lot of questions, like whether you might change your name, too, or not.

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anisotrophic
4 hours ago, MichaelTannock said:

@anisotrophic I'd appreciate more feedback, thank you!

High level feedback: it's important to start with the most important point first. e.g.:

"Dad, there's something I need to tell you. I've realized I'm very unhappy trying to be "male"."

That sentence frames the rest of the letter – current draft opens with wishing you'd come out sooner, and you can say that too, but it currently "buries the lead".

Then try to hit the other important points. Try to package them up into their own paragraphs.

I'm going to suggest some…

1. Where you are and what you plan to do with respect to gender identity. A parent (and anyone that cares about you significantly) will wonder, "Have you thought about this a long time? Are you sure? What are you going to do?"

It's tricky because you're trying to thread the needle: acting too "certain" makes someone concerned that you're being too rash/risky, but acting "uncertain" invites them to cross boundaries and argue with you.

If I could go back and do it again, I think I might've told my parents something like this:
 

Quote

I identify as "non-binary" rather than "female" – I'll explain what this means later. What's most important is that I know I don't want to keep trying to be something that makes me so unhappy. I might want to change my body, with hormonal and physical changes. I also know that exactly what I want to do is something I'm going to keep discovering as I do more to explore this. I don't want to feel like have to do something to 'prove' myself, but I hope that you accept and support me if I do those things.

What "non-binary" means is this: I don't identify as fully female or male. I've struggled with wondering if I wanted to be "male" for some time, and realized that I don't have to be "fully male" either. I appreciate this can seem strange, but there are an increasing number of people realizing a "non-binary" identity, and it can mean a lot of things. I might physically transition to look male, or not – exactly what I do is something I need to explore.


2. Try to guess and address their concerns and reactions. Tell them what you hope/expect from them. This depends on the parent, but some general fears might be "Did I do something wrong when raising you?" They might also wonder, "What do you want and need from me?" They might have more specific concerns depending on your context.

If I were going back and trying this as a letter, rather than a conversation, I'd have said something like,
 

Quote

You didn't do anything to cause this. I'm sorry it's come late in my life, and that it's a big thing. I didn't always know this about myself, but I think it's important I face it and not continue trying to live in a way that makes me unhappy. I don't expect you to change everything right away, but if I tell you I'd like to use a new name or pronoun, I hope you'll try to do that together with me.

(In my case I'd also write to address concerns about my spouse & children. Do draw boundaries. What happened to me is my mother decided our children were going to be harmed by transition, which was an unacceptable boundary crossing.)

3. How this relates to your asexuality, and how you currently experience dysphoria and gender. I'd recommend packaging this up, but also that you might not want to do such a deep dive on explaining how you feel. It's partly about boundaries: saying too much on this would seem to invite a parent to help you figure yourself out – and that's probably not a good idea, it's something you might do with a therapist. You can say less, and that he's welcome to ask questions.

Wrap-up thoughtsFor transition, there's a lot of pressure to "be" a certain thing, and it's really tough navigating this. Being "too certain" isn't good for you, but neither is giving people any opportunity to argue with you about it. (I'm still pretty angry at my mother for doing this.) I think what transfolk need when they come out is the freedom to be whatever they end up being, without having to know "up front" what that's going to be.

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Sarah-Sylvia
1 hour ago, anisotrophic said:

High level feedback: it's important to start with the most important point first. e.g.:

"Dad, there's something I need to tell you. I've realized I'm very unhappy trying to be "male"."

That sentence frames the rest of the letter – current draft opens with wishing you'd come out sooner, and you can say that too, but it currently "buries the lead".

Then try to hit the other important points. Try to package them up into their own paragraphs.

I'm going to suggest some…

1. Where you are and what you plan to do with respect to gender identity. A parent (and anyone that cares about you significantly) will wonder, "Have you thought about this a long time? Are you sure? What are you going to do?"

It's tricky because you're trying to thread the needle: acting too "certain" makes someone concerned that you're being too rash/risky, but acting "uncertain" invites them to cross boundaries and argue with you.

If I could go back and do it again, I think I might've told my parents something like this:
 


2. Try to guess and address their concerns and reactions. Tell them what you hope/expect from them. This depends on the parent, but some general fears might be "Did I do something wrong when raising you?" They might also wonder, "What do you want and need from me?" They might have more specific concerns depending on your context.

If I were going back and trying this as a letter, rather than a conversation, I'd have said something like,
 

(In my case I'd also write to address concerns about my spouse & children. Do draw boundaries. What happened to me is my mother decided our children were going to be harmed by transition, which was an unacceptable boundary crossing.)

3. How this relates to your asexuality, and how you currently experience dysphoria and gender. I'd recommend packaging this up, but also that you might not want to do such a deep dive on explaining how you feel. It's partly about boundaries: saying too much on this would seem to invite a parent to help you figure yourself out – and that's probably not a good idea, it's something you might do with a therapist. You can say less, and that he's welcome to ask questions.

Wrap-up thoughtsFor transition, there's a lot of pressure to "be" a certain thing, and it's really tough navigating this. Being "too certain" isn't good for you, but neither is giving people any opportunity to argue with you about it. (I'm still pretty angry at my mother for doing this.) I think what transfolk need when they come out is the freedom to be whatever they end up being, without having to know "up front" what that's going to be.

Personally I don't agree with your first suggestion at all. It feels way too impulsive and  rushing into saying the most important part right off the bat could be an odd impact, instead of bridging there with the introduction that I think is pretty good.

 

As for what's planned to be done, I'm not sure Michael knows yet? Getting a gender therapist is a good start and can alleviate concerns too, so I think it's a good start, not to say more can't be mentioned if there is more to say.

 

I'm also not sure why you would want to pre-empt a negative reaction like thinking they might have done something wrong, because they might not feel that at all. It could be something to be said outside the letter if he seems to think that way. That's just how I would do it, else it can put that thought in there.
It might also be rushing to talk about pronouns right off the bat. it could be useful to start with the info, and later down the line at some point talk about it once he's accepted it more.


 

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anisotrophic
3 minutes ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

It feels way too impulsive and  rushing into saying the most important part right off the bat could be an odd impact, instead of bridging there with the introduction that I think is pretty good.

The problem with "bridging" is that the reader gets lost in their own reactions before actually getting to the main point. They might actually miss it. Maybe what I suggested sounds abrupt, but that also communicates confidence.

It's feedback though, take it or leave it.

 

11 minutes ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

As for what's planned to be done, I'm not sure Michael knows yet? Getting a gender therapist is a good start and can alleviate concerns too, so I think it's a good start, not to say more can't be mentioned if there is more to say.

The example of what I would've written to my parents (in reality, it was an in person conversation, and I think something written might've been more helpful) was extremely vague about what I was going to do, because that's where I was too. I didn't get a gender therapist until later.

 

13 minutes ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

I'm also not sure why you would want to pre-empt a negative reaction like thinking they might have done something wrong, because they might not feel that at all. It could be something to be said outside the letter if he seems to think that way.

Maybe. The general idea is to try to anticipate what the reader might be thinking and show thoughtfulness for that. But sure, maybe anticipating too much invites someone to have a thought they wouldn't have otherwise have had. My parents won't tell me if they have thoughts like that, so I'd want to anticipate it. I also know being a parent involves making a lot of choices and doing a lot of stuff and wondering if I'm doing something wrong the whole time through. The example was what I think I might've written, if I went back and did it.

 

As for talking about pronouns and names off the bat: my parents have continued to deadname and misgender me for years since, and I'm not confrontational enough to call them out. (And I'm pretty comfortable with confrontation. It's just not worth it for me.) I wish I'd made a really clear statement up front that I hope they honor these things, because it's a lot more difficult (confrontational) to tell them that afterwards. That's me though, in hindsight.

 

 

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anisotrophic

I guess I'll add, "what I wish I'd written" is explicit and firm about the *possibility* of physical transition while being clear that I *don't know yet* because what happened is that I started transitioning (2+ years later), and apparently my parents were blindsided emotionally and I dealt with a really negative reaction.

I wished I'd prepared them for that – while setting expectations that it was a "might", the one thing I was certain about was that this "might" was something I needed to explore and they needed to accept it might happen. And also, that doing so shouldn't be necessary to "prove" anything to them. What I got was: "not taken seriously" followed by "omgwtfbbq". 🤷

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NickyTannock

My heart races when I think about what I'm about to do.

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Sarah-Sylvia

In my case, I think my mom would've thought very badly if I had told her about pronouns off the bat. She doesn't accept me as trans though. So that's the thing, if I'd tacked on too much there'd been even more resistance. I'd like her to get used to things first, come to accept me, and then once she's more comfortable to talk about that it could be important for me to hear female pronouns.

I also think that starting right off the bat saying we're unhappy in our gender doesn't say confidence at all, but rather insecurity, and a cry for help. I think it's not good to do it too much because then they can think there's a bigger problem going on. And it's a big impact right off the bat that can throw things, tumble and make someone wonder. The more easeful introduction shows more calm confidence where the reader doesn't have to worry, and can just listen to what's said. They won't miss it lol, it's what the whole thing is about. 😜

 

4 minutes ago, MichaelTannock said:

My heart races when I think about what I'm about to do.


That's normal. It would be something to go through, but you know what you want. I'm rooting for you anyway. For when you do feel like going for it :)

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  • 4 months later...
HopefullyExistent2

@MichaelTannock 

I'm not sure if what I'm about to say contributes to this topic at all, but I'm also an autistic asexual. I just noticed that we shared that in common, so my brain felt strangely obligated to point that out, maybe in hopes of possibly making you feel like you're less alone, if you even felt alone in the first place.

If you feel like this takes away from your experience or anything in any way, um, I'm so sorry and I'll try to find a way to remove this comment of mine. 

Anyway, I think that your draft is super great, and I genuinely hope that you have an absolutely amazing rest of your day/night/week/month/other. 

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