Coming out as a non-binary gender identity?

[NickyTannock]

Now that I'm acknowledging my feelings rather than pretending that they don't exist, I've realised that I want a non-binary transition.
But I need to come out to my dad as agender first, and I'm terrified of doing that even more so than I was when I came out as asexual.

How do I find the courage? Or should I wait a few years?

[Kimmie.]

First of great to see you finding yourself. And second to come out is complety up  to you. Do it in the phase you are comfortablw with.

[Sarah-Sylvia]

Congrats on realizing what you feel is right for you.

You can never know how parents react, you have to be ready for anything and just want to be true to yourself. If they understand and support you, then that's awesome. Not everyone gets that, but I do think everyone deserves it.
It's up to you how comfortable or ready you feel to go for it or not. I wait on a lot of things, because i dont like to be overwhelmed.
Good luck either way!

[LeChat]

Congrats!

 

I'm unsure whether or not you'd be able to come out to your Dad. You know him best. Is he accepting of LGBT+ people, non-binary people, etc.?

[Rynn]

It really depends on what your dad is like. How did he react to you coming out as asexual? That might give an indication.

 

Also, do you want a medical transition or only a social one? If you do want a medical transition, what I did was I first got on a waiting list for the gender therapist (in the UK that dumb thing is 2 years long, so I'd recommend not waiting with that), and when I'd been on that for about a year I could come out to my parents with this 'I've been on a waiting list for a gender therapist for a year because I have gender dysphoria and want to change' rather than with 'I'm agender.' I did it like that because I knew they'd be much more likely to take that first sentence seriously than the second sentence. That isn't how it should be, but it is how it is.

 

But I'd only do it like that if your biggest worry is being dismissed and disbelieved. My parents are very accepting of LGBT+ people so I wouldn't know what's best with parents that may instead just hate on that.

[Grey-Ace Ventura]

I don't have much advice to give but I wanted to say I'm happy for you for acknowledging your true feelings and working towards your nonbinary transition. The only advice I have is to take some time before you do it to gather up the courage and get ready for it. Only come out when you feel like you're mentally ready and ready to answer the questions your dad might have because people are more likely to be afraid or intolerant about things they don't understand.

[NickyTannock]

2 hours ago, Kimmie. said:

First of great to see you finding yourself. And second to come out is complety up  to you. Do it in the phase you are comfortablw with.

Thank you! And thank you for the advice about doing it when I'm comfortable.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

Congrats on realizing what you feel is right for you.

You can never know how parents react, you have to be ready for anything and just want to be true to yourself. If they understand and support you, then that's awesome. Not everyone gets that, but I do think everyone deserves it.
It's up to you how comfortable or ready you feel to go for it or not. I wait on a lot of things, because i dont like to be overwhelmed.
Good luck either way!

Thank you! My dad has been encouraging me to be more independent in my thinking, but I'm afraid that if I come out as nonbinary and seek transition, he'll think he's made a terrible mistake.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, LeChat said:

Congrats!

Thank you!

 

 

 

1 hour ago, LeChat said:

I'm unsure whether or not you'd be able to come out to your Dad. You know him best. Is he accepting of LGBT+ people, non-binary people, etc.?

54 minutes ago, Laurann said:

It really depends on what your dad is like. How did he react to you coming out as asexual? That might give an indication.

I don't know if my dad is accepting of non-binary people, but he surprised me by being accepting of my asexuality and other sexual orientations.
I was fully expecting him to reject me because my mum when she was alive scoffed at the LGBT+ community.

 

I wrote a thread about my experience coming out as asexual to him: https://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/181766-i-came-out-today/

I was too nervous at the time, so I did it by writing a note and handing it to him.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Laurann said:

Also, do you want a medical transition or only a social one? If you do want a medical transition, what I did was I first got on a waiting list for the gender therapist (in the UK that dumb thing is 2 years long, so I'd recommend not waiting with that), and when I'd been on that for about a year I could come out to my parents with this 'I've been on a waiting list for a gender therapist for a year because I have gender dysphoria and want to change' rather than with 'I'm agender.' I did it like that because I knew they'd be much more likely to take that first sentence seriously than the second sentence. That isn't how it should be, but it is how it is.

Thank you for the advice. I want to transition medically because of dysphoria surrounding my male body, but I'm not sure if my distress is intense enough to count since I've been able to push those feelings aside for so long and ignore them.

 

1 hour ago, Laurann said:

But I'd only do it like that if your biggest worry is being dismissed and disbelieved. My parents are very accepting of LGBT+ people so I wouldn't know what's best with parents that may instead just hate on that.

My biggest fear is that he'll see me as a mess because this is yet another thing about me that isn't "normal", on top of being autistic and asexual, and he'll blame himself.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Grey-Ace Ventura said:

I don't have much advice to give but I wanted to say I'm happy for you for acknowledging your true feelings and working towards your nonbinary transition. The only advice I have is to take some time before you do it to gather up the courage and get ready for it. Only come out when you feel like you're mentally ready and ready to answer the questions your dad might have because people are more likely to be afraid or intolerant about things they don't understand.

Thank you for your advice! At the moment, I don't feel mentally ready or ready to answer questions. I might need a lot of time before I am.

[Kimmie.]

How old are you by the way because if you are under 18 then you should maybe wait until you can be independent but otherwise what Laurann said is great.

[NickyTannock]

@Kimmie. I'm 35 years old.

[Kimmie.]

Just now, MichaelTannock said:

@Kimmie. I'm 35 years old.

Oh okay sorry I thought you lived at home with your dad for some reason 😑 but I should not say anything I have not done anything myself even though I live alone.

[NickyTannock]

1 minute ago, Kimmie. said:

Oh okay sorry I thought you lived at home with your dad for some reason 😑 but I should not say anything I have not done anything myself even though I live alone.

That's the thing: I lived with my parents to help them look after my severely mentally and physically disabled younger sister, and long story short, my mum died eight years ago, my sister ended up in the care system this year, and I still live with my dad.

[Kimmie.]

4 minutes ago, MichaelTannock said:

That's the thing: I lived with my parents to help them look after my severely mentally and physically disabled younger sister, and long story short, my mum died eight years ago, my sister ended up in the care system this year, and I still live with my dad.

Oh no I am so sorry that I brought it up☹️ but I am sure that he will support you when he understands you. You are his child after all.

[NickyTannock]

12 minutes ago, Kimmie. said:

Oh no I am so sorry that I brought it up☹️ but I am sure that he will support you when he understands you. You are his child after all.

I'm sorry that I keep doing this to you, but that's another thing: I'm adopted, and never knew my biological parents. My dad is 71 years old and estranged from his previous wife and their three biological sons who are now all adults with their own families. And up until my mum died, I never formed a close relationship with him.

[Kimmie.]

Just now, MichaelTannock said:

I'm sorry that I keep doing this to you, but that's another thing: I'm adopted, and never knew my biological parents. My dad is 71 years old and estranged from his previous wife and their three biological sons who are now all adults with their own families. And up until my mum died, I never formed a close relationship with him.

I will shut up now. But I am still sure that he will accept you for who you are.

[NickyTannock]

7 minutes ago, Kimmie. said:

I will shut up now. But I am still sure that he will accept you for who you are.

I hope you're right. And don't worry, I appreciate your kind words.
My life story happens to be complicated, which makes it easy for people to put their foot in their mouth if they're not aware of it. But I don't take it personally.

[Andrea KF]

Congrats to you Michael! It is a big step coming out to yourself.

 

I'm one year older than you and still haven't come out to family or friends about being agender/MTF (not sure what to tell them, there.)

I recieve therapy so I will have to tell them sooner or later.

 

Dunno if being agender can be linked to asexuality or not. It's just that as an asexual, one doesn't have any need for a gender, or?

I guess maybe if you link the two together when you're talking to your dad. It will sound logical to him and he'll accept it.

[Sarah-Sylvia]

It's good to be positive, but I want to say something on the other side, and it's not to say this will happen, but simply give another side.

My mom was going to be my pillar, I have low self-esteem and I wanted her to be on my side. I came out to her, and she ended up not accepting me as trans. This was devastating, but what do you do? You have to move on and be true to yourself as much as you can. It matters what others think but at the same it doesn't matter. People can be silly sometimes and we have to be there for ourselves.

Now I'm taking my time, doing what I can, but I'm taking things slowly so that I can do this for me.  And, others are how they are. Maybe some can change around eventually, I dunno, I can only take one step forward at a time. You need to find the pace that works for you, and be happy how you can

Anyway, that said, I'm sure your dad is more understanding, from what you said. If I said I was asexual (well, graysexual) I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be understood like I'd want. Though with being asexual, I do think it mattes most just with partners. Anyway, I hope it all goes well for you

[LeChat]

2 hours ago, MichaelTannock said:

...My dad has been encouraging me to be more independent in my thinking, but I'm afraid that if I come out as nonbinary and seek transition, he'll think he's made a terrible mistake...My biggest fear is that he'll see me as a mess because this is yet another thing about me that isn't "normal", on top of being autistic and asexual, and he'll blame himself.

 

...I don't know if my dad is accepting of non-binary people, but he surprised me by being accepting of my asexuality and other sexual orientations...

Ah. Yeah; it can be difficult for a parent to understand why their trans child wants or needs to transition.

 

It's tricky to know how a parent will react; I've heard some trans people say that, in the beginning, their parents, especially their Dad, said that they found the idea of them being gay more comfortable and easier to accept than when they came out as trans because for their parents, it felt like a sudden shock. Parents are used to their child looking a certain way, physically, for so many years, seeing them grow up.

 

So, you'll be seeing a gender therapist? That might be a bit reassuring for your Dad, letting him know that you'll be talking to a professional about it, first, before transitioning. 

[Rynn]

2 hours ago, MichaelTannock said:

My biggest fear is that he'll see me as a mess because this is yet another thing about me that isn't "normal", on top of being autistic and asexual, and he'll blame himself.

Hmm maybe it would help to make being nonbinary seem more 'normal,' or at least common, by exposing him to media that has enbies in them. Being gay used to be weird too, but with enough exposure, it's been increasingly normalized. This will take a long time. You wouldn't want to rouse suspicion by pushing it too much or too often.

 

If you've got an enby friend you can bring over, double points, that makes the topic less theoretical, more based in reality, without casting any suspicion on yourself. If not, talk about an enby friend you met on AVEN, not necessarily about the fact that they are enby, but something else unrelated, and only mention the enby-ness in passing.

 

Like for example you and your dad are having a conversation about China, and you happen to remember this anecdote told by a friend who in lived China for a year about how in China you have to go through security and get your bags scanned just to ride a subway. You use they/them pronouns for them. If your dad asks a question about said friend and uses the wrong pronouns, you say 'Oh they're nonbinary, they use they/them pronouns,' but leave it at that. Unless he asks for more info. Then you can explain enby 101 things. Keep it casual.

 

Obviously you can use any funny anecdote, and it's got to fit into the conversation. Unlikely, but if it does happen to be about China, you can use me as the friend  , I lived in China for a year, and you do have to get your bags scanned to ride a subway there. They only let you keep your water bottle if you show you're willing to drink from it.

 

If you don't feel comfortable talking about online friends, try attending an ace meetup. You're pretty much guaranteed to meet an enby there given our numbers in the ace community.

 

Do not use this exposure trick yet if talking about enby things at all still makes you very emotional (I know that was, and sometimes still is, the case for me). It will give you away before you want to come out. To reduce that level of emotion, maybe practice coming out on friends.

 

When I came out to my dad as ace, his main concern was that I wouldn't be able to lead a happy life as an ace, and it helped for him to see YouTube videos of aces just living life. That made being happy seem like more of a real possibility. After I came out to him as enby, he kept sending me news articles with positive depictions of trans people in them. I think he just needed to see those haha.

 

Of course this depends on how you feel about your gender, but maybe emphasizing that you can in fact be happy ánd transition would help. Then he doesn't have anything to blame himself for, because then it's just okay to be the way you are.

 

If you don't feel as positive about your gender, and instead need to vent about that, and need support for that, then maybe don't rely on your dad for that side of things, unless he turns out to be far more accepting than you expect. If he's not super accepting, I don't think there's anything wrong with only showing him the positive side, and appearing stronger than you really feel.

 

(Either way I want to emphasize that you do not need to come out to your dad before getting on the NHS gender therapy list. Two years is a long time. You have time to figure things out while waiting.)

[NickyTannock]

@Andrea KF Thank you! Linking being agender with being asexual when talking to dad sounds like a good idea since he accepted I'm asexual.

I know that a quarter of asexuals are transgender or gender non-conforming according to data collected by AVEN in a 2014 survey.

 

@Sarah-Sylvia Thank you! I appreciate knowing the less positive possibilities because I want to be mentally prepared.

My dad might not support my transition because of a perceived enormity of it.

 

@LeChat I don't know how to talk to a gender therapist without my dad knowing, and I'm currently terrified of coming out to him.

 

@Laurann I don't have any enby friends that I can bring over, but I appreciate the suggestion.
And talking about enby things would be too emotional for me at the moment because of the fear of what he might think.
I will look into getting on the NHS gender therapy list, but the fear is there that my dad will find out, and as I said, I don't know how to see a gender therapist without my dad knowing.

 

I wish that I could have accepted myself as agender before coming out as asexual and packaged the two so I don't have to go through that again.
Coming out was the hardest thing I'd done, the first time.

[NickyTannock]

I've decided that I'm going to come out as nonbinary and express my desire to transition the same way that I came out as asexual, by writing everything I need to say in a note, and then I'm going to wait for the right time to give it to dad.
I don't feel able to do it any other way. And I hope I don't break his heart.

 

Is it okay if I post drafts as I'm writing it?
It is something that I want to get right, and I feel like I will need the experience of others who've already come out as nonbinary or are about to.
And suggestions of what to say would mean a lot to me.

[LeChat]

 Hey! Yeah; sure, you can post drafts, if you'd like.

 

I've just found this site, for you, where a few nonbinary people explained how they came out to their parents, what they wrote in their letter to their parent, etc. I also thought, perhaps, it might help you to find Youtube videos of AMAB people coming out as non-binary to their parents.

 

https://www.them.us/story/how-to-come-out-to-your-family-as-nonbinary

 

Were you gender non-conforming as a child or while growing up? If so, and if your Dad already knew you had gender non-conforming hobbies, as a child, then, I was thinking, perhaps, it might help to mention that in your letter, that it might help him understand non-binary a bit better, through that.

 

Of course, gender non-conforming doesn't exactly correlate to non-binary, where not all non-binary people are gender non-conforming, but I just thought it might help be a start for a cis parent to sort of understand transitioning, growing up being/feeling different from others your assigned gender at birth, etc.

[NickyTannock]

@LeChat Thank you so much for the link and the suggestion!

[NickyTannock]

Is this okay?

 

 

Quote

Dad, there's something more that I need to tell you.

I wish that I had included this when I came out as asexual to you, so I didn't have to struggle with coming out again, but it's easier to understand and accept sexual orientation than gender identity.

I thought that I could pretend forever, especially to myself, that I'm like everyone else, even if I'm not the same sexual orientation.

But the longer I do that, the more uncomfortable I feel in my body.

Gender identity is someone's internal perception of what they are, whether that be male, female, a combination, or neither, and usually, this aligns with their biological sex, but not always.

In my case, I'm nonbinary, meaning that I feel neither male nor female.

Transgender is the umbrella term for any gender identity that doesn't align with ones assigned gender at birth.

I don't know why it is, but a quarter of asexuals are transgender or gender non-conforming, and autistic people are seven times more likely to experience gender dysphoria.

Everyone's experience of gender dysphoria is different, and I experience mine as depersonalisation, which is a sense of detachment from my body like I'm not real.

I feel like I'm controlling a character in a videogame rather than here in the world, and I in a literal sense, don't recognise myself in photos due to the masculine appearance.

The treatment for gender dysphoria is to transition, and nonbinary transitions exist, but I know how unlikely it is that you will support it.

And the NHS waiting list to see a gender therapist is around two years.

I just hope that you believe me and that I haven't broken your heart.

[Sarah-Sylvia]

1 hour ago, MichaelTannock said:

Is this okay?

 

 

Heyy. Glad to see your draft. One more step

i think that ultimately it's how it feels to you that matters most, so go with your heart. I can comment on it, but remember it has to feel good to you;)
The start is great, I don't have much to say there 😜
 

Quote

Gender identity is someone's internal perception of what they are, whether that be male, female, a combination, or neither, and usually, this aligns with their biological sex, but not always.

This feels a bit abrupt and like jumping into info right after you said something pretty emotional. Maybe just adding that the issue you have is around gender before it would feel like a good bridge? just an idea.
 

Quote

In my case, I'm nonbinary, meaning that I feel neither male nor female.

Good simple and to the point, but considering that non binary is pretty rarely talked about, maybe you could point out that it's not talked about (on tv or whatever) but that it's a real experience many people have. again just my own idea.
 

Quote

I don't know why it is, but a quarter of asexuals are transgender or gender non-conforming, and autistic people are seven times more likely to experience gender dysphoria.

Really good to point that out. It might give a sense that it does happen and not just something random in your case. I also like what you say after to explain how it is for you.
 

Quote

I feel like I'm controlling a character in a videogame rather than here in the world, and I in a literal sense, don't recognise myself in photos due to the masculine appearance.

Personally I would find another explanation than talking about a video game. Maybe it doesn't matter in the case of your dad, but I feel like parents sometimes think video games are bad influences lol so I just wouldn't want to fuel anything around that. If you think it doesn't matter then it can be a fine way to explain how it feels though.
 

Quote

but I know how unlikely it is that you will support it.

I've actually been part of a discussion around a trans woman writing a coming out letter, and lots of people tried to ask if putting only the pessimistic side of the support is really what she feels like doing, and I'll ask it in your case too, because I think it's good to .. also have some trust in your dad's supportive side, it can help give a boost to it, if that makes sense. You can still have these feelings, but maybe something like you know it might seem like much, but that you hope he'll support you, and maybe saying how you're thankful that he has regarding your asexuality. If you like something like that and it feels true, I think it could be good.
 

Quote

I just hope that you believe me and that I haven't broken your heart.

I have a bit of the same feeling here as the last one, but I feel like you put a lot of feelings in this, and I just don't know if I want to say too much, I'd rather you feel like your feelings were represented. I will say that the 'believe me' part makes me feel like there's room to doubt, and personally I wouldn't want to put any XD. I might add ',because it's true' if I did put something like that.

A part of me feels like I'd want to add something that says 'I am what I am' to kind of give a sense that it is about who you are, and not just some thoughts that you 'might' be nb/trans. A bit of firmness I guess. Oh and also some mention of, if it's true to you, how you love him and again are thankful for his support up to now. I think a reminder of love is nice, unless he's someone that shies away from that XD

I hope that wasnt too much to comment. Only take what feels good to you
 

[LeChat]

Oh, wow. Thanks, for sharing your draft, as it's such an emotional, personal thing to share.

 

Do you think adding a few links to websites, at the end of your letter, might help (e.g. about nonbinary people; people with Autism being seven times more likely to experience gender dysphoria, etc.)? Do you know if your Dad prefers learning about things, through websites, with professional, educational info?

 

[NickyTannock]

12 minutes ago, LeChat said:

Oh, wow. Thanks, for sharing your draft, as it's such an emotional, personal thing to share.

You're welcome. Even though I do feel apprehensive about sharing something this personal with people I don't know I also feel like I need help and support to get this right.

 

13 minutes ago, LeChat said:

Do you think adding a few links to websites, at the end of your letter, might help (e.g. about nonbinary people; people with Autism being seven times more likely to experience gender dysphoria, etc.)? Do you know if your Dad prefers learning about things, through websites, with professional, educational info?

My Dad doesn't use a computer because he's a technophobe, so he wouldn't be able to use links.
Whenever he needs something done through the computer, I usually do it for him.

[Sarah-Sylvia]

14 minutes ago, MichaelTannock said:

You're welcome. Even though I do feel apprehensive about sharing something this personal with people I don't know I also feel like I need help and support to get this right.

 

My Dad doesn't use a computer because he's a technophobe, so he wouldn't be able to use links.
Whenever he needs something done through the computer, I usually do it for him.

I don't think links to info are needed, but if ever he could use info, printing out some stuff could work.

[LeChat]

45 minutes ago, MichaelTannock said:

...My Dad doesn't use a computer because he's a technophobe, so he wouldn't be able to use links.
Whenever he needs something done through the computer, I usually do it for him...

Oh; okay. Then, in that case, yeah, printing info sounds good. I mentioned it because some trans and nonbinary people mentioned that they decided to give links to their parents/relatives, with info about nonbinary/trans people, that it helped their parents/relatives who were, originally, skeptical about their child transitioning, eventually understand.

 

I thought, perhaps, since you have Autism and were worried about your Dad believing you, I thought, perhaps, links/info might help your Dad see and understand that professionals talk about gender, dysphoria, etc., too, especially since I've heard some people with disabilities or who have Autism say that they've had problems with having their doctors, family members, etc. take them and anything they say, seriously, due to their disability or Autism.

 

I understand what it's like to not be believed, due to being born different from other kids (prematurely, with doctors telling my parents I had some developmental delays as a toddler, might struggle learning in school, etc., which I kind of did). Ever since I was a kid, I've always had a tough time with my parents believing me about things, whether it's my feelings, or whenever I'm repeating scientific facts I'd learned from professionals; most of the time, they'd really only, finally, believe the facts I'd said if I told them to read about it, online, where scholars/professionals said it.

[NickyTannock]

@LeChat Being disbelieved always hits me hard, but people do seem to trust my judgement.

 

@Sarah-Sylvia Thank you so much for your suggestions!

 

 

 

This is my new draft.

 

 

Quote

Dad, there's something more that I need to tell you.

I wish that I had included this when I came out as asexual to you, so I didn't have to struggle with coming out again, but it's easier to understand and accept sexual orientation than gender identity.

I thought that I could pretend forever, especially to myself, that I'm like everyone else, even if I'm not the same sexual orientation.

But the longer I do that, the more uncomfortable I feel in my body, as I've been struggling to recognise and accept my gender identity.

Gender identity is someone's internal perception of what they are, whether that be male, female, a combination, or neither, and usually, this aligns with their biological sex, but not always.

In my case, I'm nonbinary, meaning that I feel neither male nor female, but being nonbinary is something rarely talked about in the media.

Transgender is the umbrella term for any gender identity that doesn't align with ones assigned gender at birth.

I don't know why it is, but a quarter of asexuals are transgender or gender non-conforming, and autistic people are seven times more likely to experience gender dysphoria.

Everyone's experience of gender dysphoria is different, and I experience mine as depersonalisation, which is a sense of detachment from my body like I'm not real.

I feel like I'm controlling a character rather than here in the world, and I in a literal sense, don't recognise myself in photos due to the masculine appearance.

The treatment for gender dysphoria is to transition, and nonbinary transitions exist, and I know it might seem like much, but I hope you'll support me.

And the NHS waiting list to see a gender therapist is around two years.

The support you've shown me over the years has meant the world to me, and this is who I am.