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"Are Aces LGBTQIA+?" Masterpost


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On 7/28/2020 at 5:06 PM, nutterwithasolderingiron said:

there was the term "bambi lesbian" which was a nickname for an asexual lesbian.

What. I didn't know this. That's adorable. 

 

Anyway. Here we go.

Asexuality is terribly lonely. Sex is such a powerful driving force for humanity-- media and culture is saturated with it-- and we don't experience the same pull everyone else feels. Finding compatible partners, people who not only align with our other beliefs and needs but also don't mind not having sex, is incredibly hard. Harder still if we're aromantic as well.

 

Asexual people are facing a wide, lonely, uncertain future, in a society that prizes spousal closeness. As other people age and start families, they pull away from the friendships they once had, prioritizing the family they've made. This isn't bad, but... we're left alone. Sometimes asexual people get married without realizing they're asexual, and their marriage slowly falls apart, resentment over incompatibility building. Sometimes the relationships get abusive.

We face a lot of external denial. Many people can't fathom being asexual, and insist that we're "wrong" somehow. That we need to see a doctor. That we just haven't found the right person. That we need to have sex and it'll fix things. That we need to "loosen up." That asexuality plain doesn't exist. The idea that we don't want sex, that "incredible driving biological force," makes us seem alien and broken to some people. Our families are often horrified that we won't have a "normal" life, and grieve over it. 

To add to the familial issues, many asexual people don't want kids. Just like anyone who chooses not to have kids, they often get immense push back from their families. Religious pressure is sometimes added to the mix; coming from families who believe that marriage and children are the ultimate goal in life, some families can go as far as to financially threaten their asexual children, or force them into marriage. 

And all this can happen to an asexual person who is cis and heteromantic. Add a little intersectionality to the mix and it can only get worse. 

Maybe not every ace feels they need to be part of the LGBT+ community... but why not give them a chance? Why not allow them into a space where they won't be judged for an sexuality they were born with? They didn't choose this, same as anyone else there. And they are going to need support, a sense of community, as they face the world alone. Asexual people are so few and far between that saying "go make your own group" isn't always feasible... and it's hurtful, because here they are being excluded again.  

I don't see what all the fuss is about, honestly. Asexual people are not straight people demanding entry. Asexual people are just that-- asexual people. And just like any person, they need a place they can belong. 

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Rhyn Corinn

Well, I ranted about this in one of the other millions of threads like this, so I'm just going to post what I said there:

 

Quote

 

I'm a heteroromantic asexual and I consider myself part of LGBT+. In my view, anyone who is not all of the following:

  1. Heterosexual
  2. Heteroromantic
  3. Cisgender

qualifies as queer or LGBT+. To exclude aces from LGBT+ is to exclude a minority community that is already being ignored by the rest of society. And I understand that aces don't face the same kinds of discrimination as other identities in the LGBT+ community, but personally I feel that playing the 'who's more oppressed?' game is pointless. Whether or not aces are similar enough to other identities in the community is, to me, far less relevant than the fact that aces don't fit in with the rest of society and need somewhere to fit in and be understood and accepted. Because the simple fact is, I am not straight. Yes, I only experience romantic feelings for the opposite gender, but those feelings are very different from the feelings that straight people experience. And when heteroromantic aces are excluded from LGBT+ circles because we're told we're 'basically straight', we don't really have anywhere else to go. It's basically like being told "your feelings don't really matter," and that's a problem. I feel like I'm just rambling now, but I guess my point is: asexuals are already invisible enough to the rest of the world, the last thing we need is another community telling us we don't belong.

 

And that concludes my contribution to this discussion. (who am i kidding, i'll probably get sucked back into this mess)

 

@Grimalkin I think you explained it way better, though. Thank you. :) 
 

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15 minutes ago, MichaelTannock said:

...And thank you for your sympathy.

You're welcome.

 

@dipsy :) I forgot to mention: it's fine if you or others don't consider yourselves a part of the LGBT+ community; it's just that, for others, it really matters a lot because they grew up being bullied, feeling alone, etc. and didn't have anyone else who understood or that they knew was going through the same thing (e.g. being bullied for appearing to be gay, trans, etc.)

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Janus the Fox

Since there's been countless of the same question between QaA and Musirants, I've brought forward an ongoing Project for a Masterlist for the Questions about Asexuality Forum.  Any and all of the same question is to be managed here from no on.  This will be a pinned thread and direct me to any missed threads, this question is essentially already be answered.

 

Janus DarkFox

Questions about Asexuality, Asexual Musings and Rantings & Open Mic Moderator

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Gifted With Singleness

@Janus DarkFox Is this thread meant to merge all of the "are aces LGBT" threads, or just the ones from QaA and Musirants? After all, there are a couple threads from Hot Box that haven't been merged:

 

 

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Gifted With Singleness

Oh, and this one:

 

 

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Janus the Fox

Anywhere on site for links, can merge what’s similar in questions and musings.  There have been PPS, Hot Box, Grey Area, Aromance and Gender Forum threads with the same question, answered differently.  Up to forum mods to move those if necessary.

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Duke Memphis

I've said this before, but I'm really impartial as to whether aces are or aren't part of the alphabet soup. I try to focus more on my sense of self than what labels I might have.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/28/2020 at 10:01 PM, GiftedWithSingleness said:

Oh, and this one:

 

 

Thanks!

Locked that one since it hasn't had any activity for a year or so.

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On 7/28/2020 at 9:58 PM, GiftedWithSingleness said:

@Janus DarkFox Is this thread meant to merge all of the "are aces LGBT" threads, or just the ones from QaA and Musirants? After all, there are a couple threads from Hot Box that haven't been merged:

 

 

Locked those as well. Merging them into each other and/or into this thread might just muddle the conversation/s.

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Janus the Fox
4 hours ago, daveb said:

Locked those as well. Merging them into each other and/or into this thread might just muddle the conversation/s.

True for these, a link is plenty for now.

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Are aces LGBT? 

Are maces MelGBT? 

Are faces FelGBT? 

Are places PlelGBT? 

Are fictional humanoid races FictHumRelGBT? 

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are swaces swellgbt

are inventors of the telephone alexandergrahambellgbt

are asexual people a minority orientation that is marginalized and misunderstood by a heteronormative world that could use some unity with a diverse set of groups with similar experiences? 

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Gifted With Singleness

Suppose I'm actively involved in a community of people who like to put guac on their BLTs. Furthermore, suppose that we decide to play some card games while eating our delicious sandwiches. Would it be appropriate to play with a full deck of standard playing cards, or would it be better to only play with 48 cards, leaving out the four aces?

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  • 2 months later...

People around me always assume I'm straight, but no one seems to notice that I have never had a romantic or sexual partner, nor have I shown any interest in sex. My friend lyncat and I both grew up in straitlaced families, so it never got talked about. In fact, they would think us crazy or in need of a session with a psychiatrist if it came up in conversation, so we never came out. Are we LGBTQIA? Yes, I believe we are because we are not of the norm; we are of a different sexual identity, and that puts us in this category.

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I agree, Jon. Never coming out to family or friends means no one think we're anything different, just a bit odd, so no discrimination, especially since we can pass for straight, but we've both seen and heard the hate directed at anyone thought to be nonheteros. 

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you can be ace and LGBT or aro and LGBT, but being a "loving and accepting" group of people doesn't mean we have to include cis people who aren't attracted to their same gender just because they feel a bit different from whatever they think is the norm. We're an oppressed community, not the island of misfit toys.

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9 minutes ago, aneczyk said:

misfit toys

oh shit, I guess this is my orientation now.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I don't see why not, the only difference being it feels more removed from some things being a lack of sexuality, and from a different experience. I see ace pride flags and such too online. And plenty of asexual pride flag merch.But I'm not so sure about in person representation. Being different from straight sexuality ofc it is included otherwise where else would it be. 

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I'm still figuring out what I am, but the first time I tried using the Demi label, a bi person replied "People who think they are Demisexual are a slap in the face to bisexuals" 5 minutes later someone responded "Bisexuals are a slap in the face to lesbians". I'm still not sure if that was in defense of me, or an attack on bi people. But it did point out the irony in the statement, in a way I couldn't myself.

 

Growing up, not showing sexual interest in girls, most people assumed I was gay. Which in that area wasn't always the safest assumption people could make. A lot of people still assume that, which makes it even more complicated to find romantic connections. I've had a girl attempt to rape me, with the help of her sisters. She thought I would be addicted to her if I felt it. Then got blamed for trying to take advantage of them in public. And I had to cultivate a personality that wasn't me to protect myself. All of this before I even knew asexuality existed.

 

There are certainly difficulties associated with asexuality, possibly due to lack of visibility. But even if more people knew about it, there would still be a separation. 

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  • 1 month later...
Aroacepizzaperson

So I have seen a lot of discussion on why the LGBT community does not want ace/aro people in the community, but not a lot about why the ace/aro community would want to be LGBT. 

 

My reasoning on why we would want to be LGBT:

 

Let's face it, were a small community. Only 1/100 people are ace or aro. It is a lot of people. But let's say you go to a highschool with 1,000 people who go to it. Only 10 people in the highschool are statistically going to be aro or ace. LGBT groups can help to include people and honestly help other aro/ace people find other aro/ace people in real life (not just online). We could use the representation that the LGBT community offers, as we don't have a lot of that at all. It could be a way to spread awareness about what asexuality and aromantic mean, and clear up some misinterpretations. 

 

Also, honestly all that really matters in my opinion is whether or not Aro/Ace people can get resources from the LGBT community. GSA clubs, the trevor project, pride rallies, they are generally inclusive to Aro and Ace communities. Even though the gatekeepers on youtube and tumblr are very annoying and invalidating, we at least have much needed resources from groups like AVEN and LGBT helplines. AVEN is awesome but it can't do everything, so having access got these resources and groups is important.

 

I understand that for many members of the Ace and Aro communities, it is a very personal thing and honestly the whole LGBT alphabet soup thing is confusing. So those are just some of my thoughts and I would love to hear other people's thoughts as well!

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fragglerocking

I’m still new to all this, but it’s interesting that we really don’t fit in anywhere. Society doesn’t want us because we’re not “normal” enough, LGBT+ groups don’t want us because we’re not “abnormal” enough. And I sure don’t know what to do with myself. So just like all other situations, I’ll just sit quietly in the corner and hang out with the cat at the party.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Isn’t it so weird how some lgbt people do this! The vast majority of my experiences with lgbt people have been positive, however I honestly have to say that the most angry hatred toward asexuals I’ve ever experienced  has come from some lgbt people. It was far worse than anything I’ve experienced from allosexuals, and I was and still am quite shocked and confused why they hated us so much.

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3 hours ago, BigPotato said:

It was far worse than anything I’ve experienced from allosexuals

(sorry, annoying side note here, "allosexual" refers to all sexual people, including homosexual, bisexual and pansexual. your post looks like you meant heterosexual people here, but feel free to clarify if my interpretation is incorrect) 

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Blizzard Avis

I have never understood why people want to exclude others, I personally find that ace and aro communities probably have much more in common with the rest of the LGBTQ+ community than with those who aren't LGBTQ+. In the end, I see no drawback to including them, it's beneficial to both sides: aces and aros get more visibility and resources if they need them, while the LGBTQ+ community gets more people who would want to fight for their cause and build a safe space.

Two of the main arguments against inclusion I've seen are that LGBTQ+ people don't want "oppressors" in their safe space because aces can be homophobic or transphobic... but there is so many LGB people who are extremely transphobic, and nobody uses them as an argument to exclude gay, lesbian and bi people, so it feels like this argument only applies to aces, and not for everyone. Another argument I see is that aces and aros will "steal" resources from LGBT people who need them more if they get included, but technically even a cis and straight person can pretend they are gay for the sake of getting resources from LGBTQ+ organisations, and as far as I am aware of how things work, nobody would question them if they are gay or not, they would just help them. With this in mind, it doesn't make much sense to use that argument against inclusion.

Welp, the vast majority of the community is inclusive, those who aren't are in a minority anyway.

 

That being said, I frankly don't care. I personally don't feel particularly comfortable even in the asexual-specific communities, even less in LGBTQ+ or non-LGBTQ+ communities, so I highly doubt I'd ever go to them for help.

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I have just discovered that ACE exists! I have tried gay and straight encounters. All of my lasting ones have been straight and I identify as straight. The watershed of realising that ACE is a thing was just amazing. After 44 years!

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Ace Of Dragons

It would be nice to have a save space to go to, if I need it, but I will not pretend to be a cishet ally to be in the lgbt+ when I am clearly not. That will not be a save space. I am better off pretending at home.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/6/2018 at 3:28 AM, (NotSo)DirtyDiana said:

They might see it as they're waving a flag for their same-sex partner, and we're waving a flag for Cadbury. But then that is only sex, what about aces who are transgender? Are they only welcome if they desire to have sex? Do they need to keep the ace part private except on Aven? 

That is a really good point and something I have thought about a few times. Since the overwhelming majority of people are sexual, and expect sex in a normal relationship, it makes sense for those who do not want what society expects of them to make themselves clear, and join together to show that their wants and needs are valued. Now, when the LGBTQ+ community disagrees with our struggles, or even just the logical reason for showing ourselves, what is their opinion on those who still overlap with their community? If pansexuals are allowed, are panromantics? Is the sexual part suddenly irrelevant or unimportant? The whole point is to keep everyone happy, and to find someone they love, pointing out what kind of relationship you're looking for only makes this process more efficient. Why is this argument not used for people who desire polyamorous relationships? They're also pointing out what kind of sexual relationship they want, so therefore it's no different to us, right? It just happens to be that we desire little to no sexual relationship at all. Not to mention, there is a lot of stigma held around many sexual orientations, not just asexual. The LGBTQ+ community was formed to help combat these stigmas. It would be beneficial for the asexual community to be included as it would help strengthen our voice, and help people be more accepting. 

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I think aces are only part of the LGTB community where there's an overlap: homoromantic aces, trans aces, etc. They are, obviously, both things and should be accepted whitout a doubt.

 

But don't see the need for "straight" aces to be part of it, other than as allies. Our goals aren't the same and we won't benefit.

 

That's my take. Not everything has to be part of the same group if we want visibility. If anything, we'll disappear among the growing list of letters, and how will that help anyone?

 

Who will even know what each thing stands for when it eventually gets to be called something like LGTBQIAASGHHRTADSJUTIKDFGFVSDAFDQWERGTHYTKIKLFHNADFGFAEFWEDISNEY+ ?

 

It's much more useful to have individual communities that help each other and overlap in some cases.

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