Peaceful Protests

[Alaska Native Manitou]

12 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Indigenous people are dealing with the same issue black people are dealing with. Their issues are community based, but somehow the police bear the full responsibility for it.

 

Just like a parent refusing to parent a child, and sending them to school expecting them to be raised by their teachers. However, some will cry foul if their kids have to face consequences for their actions.

 

Look at the substance abuse in these communities. The domestic violence. The violence, period. Police are not responsible for it. Honestly. Keep police out of indigenous and black communities and see how well that works out for them.

 

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Police officers are human. What is needed is accountability when they do make costly mistakes.

 

The full weight of the law should fall on them.

 

Nobody is saying there aren't bad apples. Reform to make sure they are deterred from applying and heavily punished, and stop forcing the good ones to take the same punishment.

 

So you consider entire communities to be criminal just because police are targeting them, but won't apply the same logic to the police themselves.  To you only the one one officer who did the shooting/choking matters, not the dozen officers who stood by & let the murder happen (accessories to the crime) nor those who invoke the "code of silence" to help cover up the crime (accessories after the fact).  You certainly aren't going to think about why the police exist in the first place--created by White Americans in the 17th century to control "savages" & "slaves"--& relate it to what they're doing to us today.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

not a slave to what I cannot afford.

Its just us lazy people who are slaves to what they can't afford? This whole if you aren't rich because you don't work hard is bologna. I can prove that it is false. You just hold tight to your opinions and ill deal with facts.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, 2SpiritCherokeePrincess said:

You certainly aren't going to think about why the police exist in the first place--created by White Americans in the 17th century to control "savages" & "slaves"--& relate it to what they're doing to us today.

And don't forget the callous efficiency with which they broke strikes and murdered the working class individuals around the world in the late 19th century into the early to mid 20th century. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, 2SpiritCherokeePrincess said:

So you consider entire communities to be criminal

You're putting words in my mouth. I'm considering disproportionately high crime rates within those communities--not painting all within it with that brush. Meaning, I'm aware police get called to these areas quite often for a reason. The high crime. Not the entire community being criminal.

 

2 hours ago, 2SpiritCherokeePrincess said:

but won't apply the same logic to the police themselves.

Police need better training. Better programs that reach out to communities. More money--not less. Read my posts. The crooked cops require the entire weight of the law to fall on them.

 

2 hours ago, 2SpiritCherokeePrincess said:

You certainly aren't going to think about why the police exist in the first place--created by White Americans in the 17th century to control "savages" & "slaves"

You clearly haven't read any of my posts denouncing police brutality in threads about Portland protests.

 

Reality of the matter, is slavery has been abolished. You as a racial minority have choices you can make, to either engage with police or stay away and stay law abiding. Those are choices. I'm a black male, and police leave me alone.

 

"Whitey" isn't holding me down. I could choose to do nothing with my life, but then that's on me. Not white people, not police. Communities need to look in the mirror, and stop blaming outside forces that have little to nothing to do with the issues that plague it.

 

Black on black crime kills far more black people and children, than a cop ever would.

 

Suicide, and drug overdoses, kill more indigenous people than a cop ever could. People need to stop playing the victim.

 

Fix the issue of cops abusing of their power. Stop blaming the police for all of one's problems.

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, RebelScum said:

This whole if you aren't rich because you don't work hard is bologna.

I said nothing about financial status.

 

I have financial freedom, and don't need to be rich to have it.

 

2 hours ago, RebelScum said:

And don't forget the callous efficiency with which they broke strikes and murdered the working class individuals around the world in the late 19th century into the early to mid 20th century. 

Looking at the past, and not working on the current police force is like me demanding reparations from white people for the slavery days.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

said nothing about financial status

But you implied it. 

 

11 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Looking at the past, and not working on the current police force is like me demanding reparations from white people for the slavery days.

A very wise man once said "What's past is prologue" and another said "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it". I'll let you think on that for a bit. I'm done, I've said all I can say on this topic. Its been fun. 

[Alaska Native Manitou]

Quote

Reality of the matter, is slavery has been abolished.

https://www.democracynow.org/2018/9/12/a_new_form_of_slavery_meet

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2020/jan/8/how-13th-amendment-loophole-created-americas-carceral-state/#:~:text=As recounted by Dennis Childs in his book%2C,phrase%2C “All persons are equal before the law.”

[Gloomy]

I do have a solution to not only police brutality, but also every other problem caused by statism, but most people don’t wanna hear it because they think we need the state to protect us (gee, how’s that been working for us?).

[Guest]

I'm with you on this.^^^ because I think I know what you're talking about...😂

[Guest]

3 hours ago, RebelScum said:

But you implied it. 

And clarified myself. You continuing to misconstrue my words, is up to you when clarification of the point being made was offered.

 

 

3 hours ago, RebelScum said:

"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it".

Big difference between remembering the past and learning from it, and holding those who have nothing to do with it responsible for it. 

 

Holding people responsible for a past, means the US

 and Japan can't be close allies. Germany can't be considered a global leader due to the heinous acts conducted by the country. 

 

And all police are trying to keep black people enslaved, even though last time I checked, crime was a choice. 

 

There is a past to how policing was done against black people and racism within the police force. No doubt about it, but to punish the entire force and label it entirely as racist is grossly inaccurate and more emotional than factual.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, 2SpiritCherokeePrincess said:

https://www.democracynow.org/2018/9/12/a_new_form_of_slavery_meet

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2020/jan/8/how-13th-amendment-loophole-created-americas-carceral-state/#:~:text=As recounted by Dennis Childs in his book%2C,phrase%2C “All persons are equal before the law.”

I have already posted about this in the protest thread. I am aware of the lucrative prison system in the US and laws developed that castrate black men predominantly. This isn't new news.

 

People looting and destroying property still isn't justified. 

 

Unless what you're asking for is to allow the crime riddled neighborhoods to police themselves. 

Address the crime issue. 

 

Personally if am a cop, I protest by not going to calls in black neighborhoods. 

 

See how long things last before those communities demand for help from guess who?

[Guest]

Yeah, Trump gets voted in in November. Mark my words. America can speak via its vote.

 

The violence is a gift to Trump.

 

SJW's thinking one can burn down parts of a city and demand police be disbanded are proof as to why we need police in the first place.

 

Emotions and policy don't mix. There are unintended consequences.

 

[uhtred]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Yeah, Trump gets voted in in November. Mark my words. America can speak via its vote.

 

The violence is a gift to Trump.

 

SJW's thinking one can burn down parts of a city and demand police be disbanded are proof as to why we need police in the first place.

 

Emotions and policy don't mix. There are unintended consequences.

 

Completely agree, In fact I'm very suspicious that the violence is being instigated by Trump supporters, because it is working so strongly in his favor. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

have nothing to do with it responsible for it. 

When things haven't sytematically changed then you are either complicit or fighting against the system. So, another example from literature, did Jean Valjean have a choice to steal the bread that landed him in prison to feed his young nieces and nephews? Do people in inner city communities have much of a choice of jobs when most jobs were removed from the inner cities during the white flight of the early 20th century? Where to get money when you have no choice? You either break the law or starve. So I put little faith or confidence in the argument that crime is a choice.

 

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Address the crime issue

 

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Holding people responsible for a past, means the US

 and Japan can't be close allies. Germany can't be considered a global leader due to the heinous acts conducted by the country. 

And what does international relations have to do with anything in this argument about choices people in America have? Its a red herring is what it is, a fallacy. It has nothing to do with race relations and economic problems in the US. So take your own advice and talk about crime. 

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, RebelScum said:

When things haven't sytematically changed then you are either complicit or fighting against the system.

You have the right to assemble. To protest. This is where we agree.  That voice should be heard loud and clear.

There are clear systematic issues within the way people are policed that need to be addressed before the next George Floyd occurs. 

 

You do not (and rightfully so) have the right to rob people of their livelihoods and jobs by setting fire to their busineses or otherwise destroying property.

 

This is where we disagree,  and where I along with anyone who works and relies on their jobs in tough times, would agree with throwing such rioters in jail and throwing away the key. 

 

35 minutes ago, RebelScum said:

You either break the law or starve.

Many in city slums choose to commit crime. Guns don't get put in their hands nor do drugs. There is an allure and a choice that is made. Passing the buck of responsibility is exactly why police have to face all the criticism with issues within communities when much of the problems are self-inflicted.

 

1 hour ago, RebelScum said:

And what does international relations have to do with anything in this argument about choices people in America have?

Choices to build from past mistakes vs holding someone responsible indefinitely. Was basing my post on your logic. 

[Alaska Native Manitou]

Some people will accuse protesters of anything they can think of.  Meanwhile the protesters (and even their families) are in serious danger:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/shot-kenosha-then-received-threats-203834721.html

[Skycaptain]

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