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Is there a male version of the word "tomboy"?


Skittles87

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Are you all reading the OP? Asking for a "neutral-to-positive word in English"? Not slurs or insults, outright or implied. We all know there are more than enough of those. :( 

It would be nice if there was a counterbalance to that.

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1 hour ago, daveb said:

Are you all reading the OP? Asking for a "neutral-to-positive word in English"? Not slurs or insults, outright or implied. We all know there are more than enough of those. :( 

It would be nice if there was a counterbalance to that.

:) Yes. I read the OP, and I mentioned that I've seen some gender non-conforming AMAB people calling themselves a "femboy" or other variations/spellings like that: "femme male," "femme AMAB," etc. Many have reclaimed the word, so that it's considered a "neutral-to-positive word" to them about their gender non-conforming identity, proudly acknowledging that they are feminine, AMAB people who like wearing makeup, dresses, etc.

 

They've formed communities with other, gender non-conforming AMAB people, using the term all over social media: on Instagram, their profiles, etc. There's even a reddit subforum. (I would've given links to all these as examples, except the social media pages and the reddit subforum include a lot of fashion photography, some with somewhat, body-revealing photos that aren't really appropriate to share with a wide audience).

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Calligraphette_Coe
3 hours ago, daveb said:

Are you all reading the OP? Asking for a "neutral-to-positive word in English"? Not slurs or insults, outright or implied. We all know there are more than enough of those. :( 

It would be nice if there was a counterbalance to that.

Just sayin', there is enough misogyny in the world to poison the well for even a semi-positive term for male femininity if there were one. Even 'sensitive' gets bad press-- how often have you heard "Maybe you're just too sensitive' as a way to put down someone who is trying to make a point without a verbally pointy stick. You even find the word 'girl' in Jewel's song about the subject:

 

Quote
I was thinking that I might fly today
Just to disprove all the things that you say
It doesn't take a talent to be mean
Your words can crush things that are unseen
So please be careful with me, I'm sensitive
And I'd like to stay that way
 
You always tell me that it's impossible
To be respected, and be a girl
Why's it gotta be so complicated
Why you gotta tell me if I'm hated
Oh please be careful with me, I'm sensitive
And I'd like to stay that way
 
When I was thinking, that it might do some good
If we robbed the cynics and took all their food
That way what they believe will have taken place
And we can give it to everybody who have some faith
So please be careful with me, I'm sensitive
And I'd like to stay that way
I have this theory, that if we're told we're bad
Then that's the only idea we'll ever have
But maybe if we are surrounded in beauty
Someday we will become what we see
'Cause anyone can start a conflict
It's harder yet to disregard it
I'd rather see the world from another angle
We are everyday angels
Be careful with me 'cause I'd like to stay that way

...and as I'm finding out, some of the negatism even slips in in psychotherapy.

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2 hours ago, Calligraphette_Coe said:

Just sayin', there is enough misogyny in the world to poison the well for even a semi-positive term for male femininity if there were one.

I think their point was that people were offering slurs as answers when they're clearly upsetting, and not relevant.

 

Tomgirl, femme, feminine, gender non-conforming. That's where it's at. I don't know a single modern GNC guy who describes himself as sensitive/sissy/nancyboy/nelly on the basis of being feminine. There ARE nice terms for being feminine. Tomgirl. Femme. Feminine. Femboy. GNC.

 

Only time I see "sissy" come up is in the context of highly sexualised, forced feminisation-type crossdressing. Usually on Grindr.

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5 hours ago, daveb said:

 

Are you all reading the OP? Asking for a "neutral-to-positive word in English"? Not slurs or insults, outright or implied. We all know there are more than enough of those. :( 

It would be nice if there was a counterbalance to that.

 

I'm sorry if you've found some people's answers upsetting ❤️ I hope you're doing alright.

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DuranDuranfan
8 hours ago, Calligraphette_Coe said:

There's also '' Nelly"  and " Swish", mostly used as adjectives. I've always thought that some of this contempt for feminine males comes from the same place that misogyny does.

I believe it. Femininity is seen as weak, it’s why any guy displaying a hint of his feminine side is accused of being gay. 

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Calligraphette_Coe
41 minutes ago, DuranDuranfan said:

I believe it. Femininity is seen as weak, it’s why any guy displaying a hint of his feminine side is accused of being gay. 

Seems I have yet another rare disorder that is part physical and, according to the docs, part psychosomatic and just got out of the hospital ( again ) last week. I'm in a bind because as a condition of my release, I have to do a couple of hours of psychotherapy for PTSD. And of course the gender/sex stuff came up because of the PTSD was caused by a sexual assault in my teenage years. And of course, because I have a higher voice, the shrink is leaning towards trying to get me to own up to being gay when I'm actually a Kinsey Six asexual/transsexual.

 

I feel a little like an old Harlan Ellison sci-fi short story: "I Must Scream But I Have No Mouth." Or like a lyric from an old Bob Dylan song: " I think the world is one big prison yard; some of us are inmates, the rest are guards."

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1 hour ago, tony the trans man said:

I'm sorry if you've found some people's answers upsetting ❤️ I hope you're doing alright.

Thanks! Yeah, I was just looking for more positivity, not focusing on the negative, of which there is all too much anywhere we care to look. 

 

Sadly, I don't have any good suggestions to offer myself. I grew up in the 60s/early 70s, and there was nothing back then, but I don't care to relive that.

 

I hope it's better for younger generations and future generations. :) 

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4 minutes ago, daveb said:

Thanks! Yeah, I was just looking for more positivity, not focusing on the negative, of which there is all too much anywhere we care to look. 

 

Sadly, I don't have any good suggestions to offer myself. I grew up in the 60s/early 70s, and there was nothing back then, but I don't care to relive that.

 

I hope it's better for younger generations and future generations. :) 

Absolutely understandable, I assumed this was the case ❤️ Fair enough that you don't want to relive that!!

 

Things are getting better, indeed ❤️ 

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Calligraphette_Coe

After thinking about this topic a lot, I think we're just going to have put on our Wordsmithing caps on and invent one of our own. That happens so often in the lgbt community, such as with slang like 'kiki'. And maybe we'll also have to doublethink how whatever we come up with will be distorted back to the same-old-same-old negativity and take step like basing the word on things like androgyny. Maybe something like Aunt Ginny or Andy Ginn, so that the haters don't latch onto it because it's non-obvious.

 

That said,  Wordsmiths, start you engines!

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1 hour ago, Calligraphette_Coe said:

After thinking about this topic a lot, I think we're just going to have put on our Wordsmithing caps on and invent one of our own. That happens so often in the lgbt community, such as with slang like 'kiki'. And maybe we'll also have to doublethink how whatever we come up with will be distorted back to the same-old-same-old negativity and take step like basing the word on things like androgyny. Maybe something like Aunt Ginny or Andy Ginn, so that the haters don't latch onto it because it's non-obvious.

What about the AMAB people who currently identify as tomgirls, femme, feminine, femboys, non-binary, and gender non-conforming? I don't really understand why those labels are insufficient. They have a rich history and are currently being used by many people. There is a community of femme AMAB people which already exists. These labels are directly related to the femininity that so deeply resonates with such individuals, and to androgynise that, or distract away from that femininity, seems a bit redundant.

 

I don't really understand why you and others in this thread keep talking about slurs, when approachable terms clearly already exist for feminine AMAB people... Making up new labels is fine and could be beneficial, I suppose (particularly if someone were closeted), but it's not like all AMAB people with the relevant identities are presently unable to find labels that aren't slurs.

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Calligraphette_Coe
7 hours ago, tony the trans man said:

What about the AMAB people who currently identify as tomgirls, femme, feminine, femboys, non-binary, and gender non-conforming? I don't really understand why those labels are insufficient. They have a rich history and are currently being used by many people. There is a community of femme AMAB people which already exists. These labels are directly related to the femininity that so deeply resonates with such individuals, and to androgynise that, or distract away from that femininity, seems a bit redundant.

 

I don't really understand why you and others in this thread keep talking about slurs, when approachable terms clearly already exist for feminine AMAB people... Making up new labels is fine and could be beneficial, I suppose (particularly if someone were closeted), but it's not like all AMAB people with the relevant identities are presently unable to find labels that aren't slurs.

I'm 66 and an engineer and I recently got forced into semi-retirement  and was replaced by someone fresh out of college. Had I openly identified as any on those terms, I would have been replaced a lot sooner. I have  hair down to the middle of my back and took a lot of flack for that, so I'm sort of in the glass closet. I could pull my hair back into a pony tail, but I had gotten a curly perm, I would have been in violation of some unwritten dress code. Identifiying by those terms is a lot like that-- it might be okay in cyberspace, but in the 3D world? Not so much. There's an even richer history of people like myself using camouflage culture to fly under the radar.

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2 hours ago, Calligraphette_Coe said:

it might be okay in cyberspace, but in the 3D world? Not so much. There's an even richer history of people like myself using camouflage culture to fly under the radar.

Good point... Like I said, if someone is closeted or in an unsafe space, a new term would be good. Wish fewer slurs had been mentioned earlier though. It's apparent those words were upsetting.

 

Sorry you have to choose between presenting the way you want, and the way other people expect. I empathise. The term "tomboy" was my camouflage, but I was still considered ugly as a GNC girl.

 

I guess the reason I didn't consider camouflage terms in this chat was because... well, it didn't really matter what terms I used to describe myself pre-transition, I was relentlessly bullied and ostracised because of how I looked anyway. In that situation I don't think an androgynous, non-suspicious term could've helped me (though I'm AFAB). And my trans female friends hid their identities right up until they came out as fully female. Prior to that, they just tried to adhere to masculinity as much as they could, and if they failed, homophobes didn't pause to consider what label they identified with.

 

I'm genuinely interested; from your perspective, do you think a newly invented term could help to destigmatise femininity in AMAB people? Do you think it would help in situations like that?

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Calligraphette_Coe
12 hours ago, tony the trans man said:

Good point... Like I said, if someone is closeted or in an unsafe space, a new term would be good. Wish fewer slurs had been mentioned earlier though. It's apparent those words were upsetting.

 

Sorry you have to choose between presenting the way you want, and the way other people expect. I empathise. The term "tomboy" was my camouflage, but I was still considered ugly as a GNC girl.

 

I guess the reason I didn't consider camouflage terms in this chat was because... well, it didn't really matter what terms I used to describe myself pre-transition, I was relentlessly bullied and ostracised because of how I looked anyway. In that situation I don't think an androgynous, non-suspicious term could've helped me (though I'm AFAB). And my trans female friends hid their identities right up until they came out as fully female. Prior to that, they just tried to adhere to masculinity as much as they could, and if they failed, homophobes didn't pause to consider what label they identified with.

 

I'm genuinely interested; from your perspective, do you think a newly invented term could help to destigmatise femininity in AMAB people? Do you think it would help in situations like that?

I think if would help two ways-- it would act like a secret handshake so that strangers of the same orientations could still stay  stealth but would be able to safely 'drop the shields' when the secret handshake was flashed. In the past, when secret handshakes like " Friends of Dorothy" was a thing ( which was how gay men would know someone else was gay because it was based on this:   https://www.amazon.com/Friends-Dorothy-Boys-Love-Wizard-ebook/dp/B07F4MPJBC. It was so successful that government agents thought there was spy ring headed by a Mata Hari character code named Dorothy. Lacking gaydar, they had no way of knowing, LOL. 

 

And that has the domino effect of making you feel like you can take a stand when the haters gang up because you know there are allies in the field. That in turn further empowers you to maybe be a little more assertive even when there isn't.

 

I'm still a little weak from my recent medical misadventrue and sleep more. So, the other night, I wanted to find some softer nightware that looked better than the junk they sell at Wal*Mart. Years ago, I'd have been terrified to buy any within 100 miles of home and was always self concious. I'm not any more- I just buy what I want and if a conservative checkout person tries to  get a little out of line, I just tell them " Yeah, it's for me, is there a problem with that? I like what I like and don't care what anyone thinks-- and neither does my American Express card, which works in other stores if it _is_ a problem."

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DarkStormyKnight

I think I had heard the term "katiegirl" when growing up used like that? But possibly my friend circle invented that for the boy we'd hang out with (he later turned out to be gay). But I've always identified as a bit of a tomboy, I've distanced myself from the term now because I think it's kinda dumb to put a label on things like that. I don't find it offensive, I just don't find it useful.

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