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Is there a male version of the word "tomboy"?


Skittles87

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Tomboy, meaning a girl who exhibits characteristics or behaviours considered typical of a boy, is a word I grew up with and it's one I have positive feelings about. It meant I didn't have to feel weird for wearing boy's clothes and preferring bugs to Barbies, because there was a word for it and it was usually used in a neutral or positive way.

 

So my question is this - Where's the equivalent word for a boy who exhibits characteristics or behaviours considered typical of a girl? I can't think of a similar, neutral-to-positive word in English, but if you speak other languages perhaps you know of a word?

 

If there isn't one, perhaps we should come up with one? I feel like society has always been more accepting of boyish girls than girlish boys, due to females being historically undervalued. But if we're becoming a more gender-equal society, surely we need to accept that plenty of cis boys and men like "girly" stuff, and this should be recognised and celebrated.

 

I'm aware that I'm coming at this from a very cis perspective. Maybe "tomboy" is not a helpful word for AFAB people who are trans and non-binary, and could be used to dismiss gender questioning. Whatever your opinion or experience, I'd like to hear it.

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letusdeleteouraccounts

A very feminine guy is simply called a tomgirl. It’s just never really been a popular term because people have thought for the longest that tomgirls are automatically and always gay or trans (in a discriminatory and derogatory way at that)

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Lord Jade Cross

Usually most would fall under gay, though many gay men are actually pretty furious about being compared or referred to as "girly". Some might call them trans.

 

And the go to insult for men who behaved in less than the standarized "male ways" as recent as just 40ish years is the f word but I'm not sure if I can write it so I'll leave it at that.

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letusdeleteouraccounts
3 minutes ago, Jade Cross said:

And the go to insult for men who behaved in less than the standarized "male ways" as recent as just 40ish years is the f word but I'm not sure if I can write it so I'll leave it at that.

Honestly, I still personally see this a lot today. From online to in person interactions

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13 minutes ago, Star Lion said:

A very feminine guy is simply called a tomgirl.

I've never heard that word but hey, it would simplify things!

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10 minutes ago, Jade Cross said:

And the go to insult for men who behaved in less than the standarized "male ways" as recent as just 40ish years is the f word but I'm not sure if I can write it so I'll leave it at that.

Yeah, see that's my point here. There's nothing but gay slurs and insults like "cissy". I feel like a neutral or positive word for gender-non-conforming boys is very much needed. 

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Just now, Skittles87 said:

I feel like a neutral or positive word for gender-non-conforming boys is very much needed. 

I quite agree.

 

A tomboy can be cis-female, can be hetero. Or not. The point is that they do things that might be considered masculine by some and may get some teasing or pushback for it, but generally are more likely to either be treated neutrally or positively. There is no equivalent for the reverse, and I think a lot of that has to do with the imbalance between how society sees the genders. Maybe a good positive word would help.

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28 minutes ago, Skittles87 said:

...I feel like a neutral or positive word for gender-non-conforming boys is very much needed. 

I've seen some call themselves "gender non-conforming" (it's a neutral term which applies to all genders) or "femme boy/male/AMAB."

 

I've also seen a couple of new terms mentioned, from parents of gender nonconforming AMAB kids, like "gender creative."

 

From 

https://pflag.org/glossary

Quote

...Gender Nonconforming: An outdated term used to describe those who view their gender identity as one of many possible genders beyond strictly man or woman. More current terms include gender expansive, differently gendered, gender creative, gender variant, genderqueer, nonbinary, agender, gender fluid, gender neutral, bigender, androgynous, or gender diverse. PFLAG National uses the term gender expansive...

 

Personally, I'm not into using "gender creative"; calling myself "gender creative" would just sound extremely conceited, narcissistic, to me. It comes across as a bit elitist or boastful, to me, as though a gender nonconforming person or their family who uses it for them is trying to imply that they're more creative than gender conforming people (which isn't necessarily true, as there are creative artists in arts communities of all sexualities, genders, etc., whether gender non-conforming or not.)

 

I'm worried that terms like that would just cause more division and dislike for LGBT+ people, gender non-conforming people, etc., with more claims of just "wanting to come up with terms to seem like they're special snowflakes."

 

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I don't think gender nonconforming quite covers it, and doesn't quite roll off the tongue as well either. :P 

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56 minutes ago, Skittles87 said:

So my question is this - Where's the equivalent word for a boy who exhibits characteristics or behaviours considered typical of a girl? I can't think of a similar, neutral-to-positive word in English, but if you speak other languages perhaps you know of a word?

My first thought was “effeminate”, but I don’t think that’s quite the same sort of term... and which I thought was simply an adjective, turns out it’s a derogatory adjective. Yay for toxic masculinity, where males are not allowed to be themselves 🤮

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Does anyone else feel like its sexist that there is a standard word for girls who exhibit masculine tendencies but the only words for boys who exhibit feminine tendencies are slurs? Or else words that no one's heard of? It seems to me like one more systemic way that men and masculinity are idealized, even to the point that women should want to "be like men" but men should never want to "be like women."

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Grey-Ace Ventura

Femme boy?

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letusdeleteouraccounts
5 minutes ago, Iam9man said:

My first thought was “effeminate”, but I don’t think that’s quite the same sort of term... and which I thought was simply an adjective, turns out it’s a derogatory adjective. Yay for toxic masculinity, where males are not allowed to be themselves 🤮

When I think of “effeminate,” I think about people I see on the internet crying about the “gay agenda”

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banana monkey
1 hour ago, Skittles87 said:

. Maybe "tomboy" is not a helpful word for AFAB people who are trans and non-binary, and could be used to dismiss gender questioning. Whatever your opinion or experience, I'd like to hear it.

I thought the 2 were unrelated. I went through a period of questioning if I was non binary and I still do occasionally. After a few posts on here, I came to realise that gender identity is not always somonous with gender presentation and the 2 could be seperate. Following this I came to understand that a "tomboy" is generally considered to be a female who may present more masculine but a non-binary person is a non -binary person. The 2 are different and as such it may just be that I like to be a tomboy in that I like to present as more masculine/male to other people and been seen as such but actually identify as female or maybe neutral.  I came to the conclusion that this was most likely. However, Something I read today made me question this again and made me wonder if I should experiement with they/them pronouns somewhere to help me realise that they do/do not feel wrong. I would really like to hear others opinions around the word tomboy/tomgirl. 

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15 minutes ago, banana monkey said:

I thought the 2 were unrelated. I went through a period of questioning if I was non binary and I still do occasionally. After a few posts on here, I came to realise that gender identity is not always somonous with gender presentation and the 2 could be seperate. Following this I came to understand that a "tomboy" is generally considered to be a female who may present more masculine but a non-binary person is a non -binary person. The 2 are different and as such it may just be that I like to be a tomboy in that I like to present as more masculine/male to other people and been seen as such but actually identify as female or maybe neutral.  I came to the conclusion that this was most likely. However, Something I read today made me question this again and made me wonder if I should experiement with they/them pronouns somewhere to help me realise that they do/do not feel wrong. I would really like to hear others opinions around the word tomboy/tomgirl. 

I do see "tomboyish" behaviour as being separate from gender identity. I was always a tomboy but have never really questioned my gender. I'm happy being female as long as I'm allowed to dress and behave how I like. Whereas I'm sure there are plenty of AFAB people who aren't tomboyish and enjoy traditionally feminine activities, clothes, etc. but don't think of themselves as female.

 

 

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Rainy Robin

@banana monkey  I think I might be in your situation as well! I've been questioning if I'm nonbinary mainly because I don't have a strong connection to my assigned gender (I'm AFAB) and have also described myself as gender noncomforming and a tomboy for awhile. I use the word "tomboy" to describe myself mainly in the context of my gender expression / personal style, but I've also found that using that word has helped me explore ways that I think about myself and my identity beyond the social / cultural norms around femininity. 

 

I also encourage you to try out they / them pronouns if you think they would work for you! I've been doing that a bit just with myself recently, where I see if thinking about myself using those terms feels more authentic than she / her pronouns do. 

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1 hour ago, Iam9man said:

My first thought was “effeminate”

It's definitely a step up from "cissy", but I've often heard this used in a negative way (mostly by homophobes).

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banana monkey
8 minutes ago, Skittles87 said:

 Whereas I'm sure there are plenty of AFAB people who aren't tomboyish and enjoy traditionally feminine activities, clothes, etc. but don't think of themselves as female.

 

 

They must exist but it seems like a strange construct and I didnt think I've come across it (edit - As typing I consider that a gay man may (or may not) like feminine things and as such I suppose one could be a trans gay man and fit said description).

 

Also, just realised that its probably slightly different to be percived as a tomboy and want to be percieved as one and be percived as a tomboy but want to be percieved as male even if you identify as female. (which is what I experience from time to time). I dont use tomboy to describe myself and dont think I would be comfortable doing so, but I've had other people suggest it or describe me as it. 

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Unfortunately up until relatively recently one of the main functions of young men was to go abroad and kill other young men as efficiently as possible. Any behaviour that did not complement this function was both metaphorically and literally beaten out of them. We have largely and hopefully indefinitely moved beyond that form of diplomacy, but the mindset still remains. Every boy is in some dark part of people's souls seen as a potential warrior. The fact that sexual orientation, presentation or behaviour does not impact on this now is largely ignored. I wish that a boy who had mannerisms a bit like a girl could be called a person and left at that. 

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22 minutes ago, Kev said:

Unfortunately up until relatively recently one of the main functions of young men was to go abroad and kill other young men as efficiently as possible.

I mean, the military is still very real and still made up of mostly AMAB individuals (https://www.cfr.org/article/demographics-us-military#:~:text=When the draft ended in,percent of the officer corps.&text=In both services%2C approximately one,can perform in the military.)

Personally I have an overwhelming fear of war, and a strong desire to never kill anyone, ever, regardless of circumstances. Even my Dungeons & Dragons games tend to be more political, and we'll go entire sessions without ever entering into combat.

 

25 minutes ago, Kev said:

I wish that a boy who had mannerisms a bit like a girl could be called a person and left at that. 

Yes. Just yes.

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1 hour ago, banana monkey said:

They must exist but it seems like a strange construct and I didnt think I've come across it (edit - As typing I consider that a gay man may (or may not) like feminine things and as such I suppose one could be a trans gay man and fit said description).

 

Also, just realised that its probably slightly different to be percived as a tomboy and want to be percieved as one and be percived as a tomboy but want to be percieved as male even if you identify as female. (which is what I experience from time to time). I dont use tomboy to describe myself and dont think I would be comfortable doing so, but I've had other people suggest it or describe me as it. 

I've definitely met some non-binary AFAB people who are very into make-up, romance novels, sewing, all sorts of traditionally feminine things. At first I couldn't quite get my head around it because they seemed more "girly" than I was, but weren't girls. I guess gender identity is something on a deeper level, rather than just clothes and interests. As for trans men, I guess they could be gender non-conforming in the same way cis men can be. 

 

Sorry people label you as a tomboy against your will, that sucks. To echo what Rainy_Robin said, maybe you should try experimenting with different pronouns?

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Calligraphette_Coe

Bully magnets. 

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Janus the Fox

It’s been long in discussion before, taken from an actual Google Search 

I’ve seen either Janegirl or Tomgirl through such search’s though.

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9 hours ago, Skittles87 said:

Where's the equivalent word for a boy who exhibits characteristics or behaviours considered typical of a girl?

I have heard the term "tomgirl" used to describe boys who are feminine in presentation, or who naturally gravitate towards behaviours and hobbies that are considered "girlish". Similarly with "tomboy", this term does rely on the distinction between what is considered a male hobby and what is considered a female hobby, however, these terms are very precious to some individuals who operate within binary societies. That being said, I know cishet guys who love makeup and even sometimes frock up in drag, so I know the need to label gender non-conformity is becoming less urgent, if a person is in an accepting area with accepting friends/partners.

 

9 hours ago, LeChat said:

Gender Nonconforming: An outdated term used to describe those who view their gender identity as one of many possible genders beyond strictly man or woman.

The idea that "gender non-conforming" is outdated or offensive is pretty disingenuous. Gender non-conforming is a term that many people, lesbians and feminine gay men included, use to describe themselves. This term is used all over the world. This is the only corner of the internet where I have heard this term labelled "outdated". Many boys or men describe themselves as gender non-conforming, and so do many non-binary people, as well as cis women.

 

I'm of the opinion that decreeing language bad (or outdated) doesn't do much for people who currently use that term, who then feel pressure to "update" their identities to a more "correct" term. Gender non-conforming is (often) a way for people who are comfortably binary to describe their hobbies, presentation, or manner of expression. It is also a term used by non-binary people, to indicate that they do not fit into binaries at all, and do not conform to any gender role specifically.

 

5 hours ago, Skittles87 said:

I guess gender identity is something on a deeper level, rather than just clothes and interests. As for trans men, I guess they could be gender non-conforming in the same way cis men can be.

Transgender men can indeed be gender non-conforming, once inhabiting the gender of male. That is why gender non-conforming is a good descriptor, one that should not be deemed outdated.

 

Personally, I am a very masculine transgender man, one who is very comfortable fitting into male gender roles. I am a gay man who is exclusively interested in other masculine men, and I tend to date within the bear community exclusively. Being feminine causes me extreme gender dysphoria. But for many AFAB transgender people, femininity is separate from their internal gender identity, and does not cause them gender dysphoria-- thusly, any outfits or accessories they choose are simply adornments, which do not detract from the legitimacy of their gender identities. I cannot emphasise with these people. Though I logically recognise that gender is a construct, I am happy and proud to operate within male gender constructs, as it is where I am comfortable, and my gender dysphoria does not allow me to do anything else.

 

Every transgender person is different, and those who undergo binary transitions (male to female, female to male) do use the term "gender non-conforming" as a handy way of owning their binary identities, while also labelling their choice to resist gender norms. And, as I said before, gender non-conforming is a term that many non-binary people love, as well.

 

Here is a non-binary person's explanation of transgender, gender non-conforming, and non-binary.

 

 

Here is a cishet man (Travis McElroy) who is gender non-conforming, talking about his presentation preferences with a bisexual cis woman, who is also gender non-conforming.

 

 

Here is a gender non-conforming non-binary person talking about their life experiences, as affected by the fact that they are non-binary and gender non-conforming. This is why I believe decreeing gender non-conforming "outdated" is very narrow-minded and does a disservice to the gender non-conforming people that exist. The only thing that achieves is silencing people who identify with the term.

 

 

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9 hours ago, Skittles87 said:

I'm aware that I'm coming at this from a very cis perspective. Maybe "tomboy" is not a helpful word for AFAB people who are trans and non-binary, and could be used to dismiss gender questioning. Whatever your opinion or experience, I'd like to hear it.

"Tomboy" is not at all dismissive of men like me, or AFAB non-binary people. Many cishet women identify as tomboys. Many girls identify as tomboys, before they have a grasp of their sexual preferences. Many lesbians identify as tomboys into adulthood. Just because a label exists, does not mean it needs to apply to all individuals, or be relevant to all communities. I identified as a tomboy for a while, throughout my questioning phase. It was a safe place for a "girl" to hide. I wanted to become a boy (and felt that I was a boy inside), but could not safely transition, and so "tomboy" was a way for me to own my gender non-conformity. Just because I wouldn't need that label now, and it wouldn't be correct, doesn't mean it wasn't important and valuable back then.

 

Many butch lesbians identify as tomboys in childhood too, as they experience their own kind of gender non-conformity. As a matter of fact, many lesbians identify as tomboys into adulthood too. Here are some examples.

 

https://kitschmix.com/butch-vs-stud-vs-tomboy-putting-things-perspective/

https://youtu.be/wRVfX3vxODc

https://www.autostraddle.com/tomboy-style-vs-butch-style-182385/

https://youtu.be/oLYOv5U2WQU

 

 

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DuranDuranfan

I’ve heard the term “Nancy Boy” used, but it’s probably a slur.

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14 hours ago, Janus DarkFox said:

t’s been long in discussion before, taken from an actual Google Search 

I was sure I wasn't the first to ask, which is why it's weird to me that there's no obvious word. I also asked on Twitter, and the ones getting repeated are tomgirl and femboy.

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Calligraphette_Coe
11 hours ago, DuranDuranfan said:

I’ve heard the term “Nancy Boy” used, but it’s probably a slur.

There's also '' Nelly"  and " Swish", mostly used as adjectives. I've always thought that some of this contempt for feminine males comes from the same place that misogyny does.

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