Jump to content

Comp het has been a concept in the lesbian community for a while. Do you all ever feel like you experience a sort of 'comp allo'?


Recommended Posts

WellThatsDebatable

Hey there, Ace lesbian here. So, in the lesbian community, there's this concept of compulsory heterosexuality (comp het). Basically, a lot of lesbians envision themselves as in straight relationships, eg daydreaming about being married to a man, having fictional male or celebrity crushes, etc, or even having real life relationships with men- not even unhappy ones- but feeling like something is missing. The idea is that because society's view of womanhood is so deeply defined by relationships with a man, a lot of women are raised to believe what they want is a relationship with a man, even when they've only ever been in love with women. More info on the am I a lesbian masterdoc (Am I a Lesbian).


Here's where I get to the bit that's relevant to the ace community. I sometimes feel like there's something similar with asexuality. So much of society and media is telling us from a young age that happy relationships revolve around, or at least feature sex and sexual attraction (I realize the latter is what defines asexuality, having sex and being ace is totally valid, just for a lot of us being repulsed or neutral to the former is also an important aspect), and because of that it's easy to envision yourself in a relationship where that's the case when fantasizing about a relationship, even if you've never once experienced sexual attraction. But even then there's that feeling of something being 'missing', even within those fantasies, if that makes sense. I feel like 'comp allo' could be a useful way to start talking about or describing this experience.

TL;DR Comp het is an important concept in the lesbian community. Do you think there's something like comp allo with regards to being ace?

Has anyone else experienced something similar, and what are your thoughts on this?

Edit: I just learned there's a term for this- amatonormativity (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amatonormativity)! However, that seems to be more focused around romantic relationships. Regardless of what term we use, I'm hoping we can have more discussion about this kind of thing in the a-spec community, because I think it's really important, especially for people who are questioning, and I think the parallels to comp-het are interesting. I'd say the main difference between what I'm talking about and amatonormativity is that amatonormativity is more about external pressure, where as I'm more talking about the ways that manifests when internalized. I'm sure amatonormativity could encompass that too, but I do feel like there's a distinction, just like there's a difference between comp-het and heternormativity, even though they're closely related..

Edit 2: So I know this thread has been here for a while now but I wanted to add and discuss something I was pointed towards. Awhile ago, Lisa Millbank wrote her essay called "The Ethical Prude: Imagining An Authentic Sex-Negative Feminism" which uses the term compulsory sexuality (https://radtransfem.wordpress.com/2012/02/29/the-ethical-prude-imagining-an-authentic-sex-negative-feminism/#sexiscompulsory (by the way, don't get scared by the blog calling itself 'radical transfeminist'- the FAQ explains, but she's not a radfem or a TERF as far as I can tell)). While I certainly think it's interesting and useful, it focuses more on asexuality and doesn't really get into aromanticism, and while it gives a passing mention that the amatonormative attitude can be internalized, it mostly focuses on the external pressure to be allo, similarly to amatonormativity. I think when talking about compulsory sexuality, it's important to have a term to talk specifically about the symptoms of internalizing this attitude as well, and I think something like comp allo might be a good way to do that. The word choice doesn't really matter, it's that there's terminology to express the idea.

Edited by WellThatsDebatable
amatonormativity
  • Like 13
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that is very much a thing. I hadn't heard of comp het until recently, but it makes total sense ... it might be more of a comp alloromanticsm thing than comp allosexuality, because so many people round here are confused because they "always thought (they) just haven't met the right person but will ultimately be in a relationship" but figure out that that's not at all what they want.

Then again, there's a huge expectation regarding sexual relationships. But I kind of feel like that's more external, while compulsory alloromanticism is more internalized.

(I may be wrong, I'm definitely romantic so I can't speak first hand - but I don't think I ever imagined myself in a sexual relationship. Can't speak for anyone else, just trying to remember the kind of questions I see on here, from people questioning their identities after growing up with a certain view of how "life" was "going to be" once they "found the right person".)

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
WellThatsDebatable

Note: Replying to weird elf, accidentally made it a separate reply

That makes total sense- I'm not aro so I can't speak to that experience, but I'd imagine this might be even more applicable there. However, to give an example of my personal experience, if I'm imagining a relationship between two fictional characters (including ones I projected onto) I almost always imagine it to be a sexual one, even though personally I'm sex repulsed, don't experience sexual attraction, and don't have any libido whatsoever. Before I realized I was ace, I think it was sort of a way to try and fit into the norm of sexual relationships and having sexual fantasies, while being able to distance myself from it by virtue of the characters being fictional and the relationship unobtainable. This ran through my mind while reading the 'but I like fictional men/male celebrities' section of the am I a lesbian doc. While I'm sure this is not everyone's experience, certainly to this degree of specificity, I feel like things in that vein and aro/ace parallels to other aspects of comp het might not be uncommon. 

Edited by WellThatsDebatable
Spelling
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Mackenzie Holiday
57 minutes ago, WellThatsDebatable said:

More info on the am I a lesbian masterdoc (Am I a Lesbian).

Thank you for this!!! This captures so many of the confusing feelings I’ve had about the idea of a sexual relationship with people of any sex!

 

I definitely think the concept of comp allo perfectly accounts for the years of my life that I had struggled the most with while I was trying to determine whether or not I’m really ace. It’s so valuable to have a word for this! Thank you again!

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites
WellThatsDebatable
2 minutes ago, Mackenzie Holiday said:

Thank you for this!!! This captures so many of the confusing feelings I’ve had about the idea of a sexual relationship with people of any sex!

 

I definitely think the concept of comp allo perfectly accounts for the years of my life that I had struggled the most with while I was trying to determine whether or not I’m really ace. It’s so valuable to have a word for this! Thank you again!

So glad it helped! I remember how validating it was to read that doc for the first time, and glad you had the same experience. I'm hoping we can find a way to talk about this kind of thing in the a-spec community, be it comp allo or something else, because I think it's really important, especially for people who are questioning. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
everywhere and nowhere

Well, to just mention one thing, the idea of compulsory heterosexuality comes from the essay by Adrienne Rich, "Compulsory Heterosexuality and Lesbian Existence". And there is also a text which clearly alludes to is, "Compulsory Sexuality and Asexual Existence". I'm surprised that it hasn't been mentioned yet.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
WellThatsDebatable
8 minutes ago, Nowhere Girl said:

Well, to just mention one thing, the idea of compulsory heterosexuality comes from the essay by Adrienne Rich, "Compulsory Heterosexuality and Lesbian Existence". And there is also a text which clearly alludes to is, "Compulsory Sexuality and Asexual Existence". I'm surprised that it hasn't been mentioned yet.

Ah, Thanks for this information! Just learned about this! I'm not surprised other people had thought about it, but it's really cool to know it's discussed in the original essay. I haven't seen much discussion of this concept within the a-spec community, and would love to try and boost awareness of it- I feel like knowing the ways it manifests can be very validating for a lot of people. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes - and also as a possible aro I find it really difficult to work out whether I could potentially experience romantic attraction if I met the right person who liked me back, or whether the people I think I might have 'liked' are more me thinking myself into it because of what is apparently called amatonormativity (harder to spell than compulsory romanticisim but I like it!) I also feel like if I work out I'm definitely aro and want to go down the route of looking for a QPR I have no idea how that works: have lots of experience of loads of romance narratives from early childhood (all the Disney princess movies for a start, so glad they are starting to change that a bit!) but less about other life 'stories' and I think that makes it quite hard to imagine my future or work out the path I want to take!

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
Fraggle Underdark

In my case I'm demisexual so if a good connection is formed (and I want one to be formed) then I eventually experience sexual desire. But it's interesting that even in my case there's something like this. Before working out that I'm demi I liked the idea of a rapid sexual connection. Not a shallow one-night stand but really hitting it off with someone who seems great, the feeling is mutual, and then we go back to one of our places. Normally that's not uncommon for people who have really hit it off and find someone they really really like, at least if they're people who can know that sort of thing quickly. And it's true that romantically I can quickly form interest, at least a lot of excitement, if I meet the right people. But I would go out to parties, late-night assorted adventures, even had some instances where I really hit it off with someone and then thought: "huh...the prospect of sex with this person is still not that appealing". The abstract idea of a immediate sexual connection is still kind of nice and rather romantic (if it's founded on romantic interest) but in practice I don't seem to be interested.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds about right. Explains why I thought my fantasies before meant I wasn't ace since I could imagine doing those things and enjoying them, even though I didn't experience the attraction/desire to do so. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
WaywardHeroine

I definitely feel this on a romantic level.  More and more, I find myself questioning whether I really want the stereotypical romantic relationship I've always pictured myself in.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

It took your example of the fictional characters to get what you mean and wow is it mind-blowing. Yes, I did take part in a whole lot of allo media so much that I internalized it and assumed that's what I'd turn out to be. The 'something missing' I'd say is realising I wasn't actually projecting myself onto those fantasies. The person I imagine(d) in relationships was not me, the person I imagine(d) having sex was a blurry image. I assumed that at some point I would have to fill that hypothetical person's position, but I distanced myself from the need to feel a desire for anything until the time came for it, then maybe I'd 'switch it on' (actual words I used to used). It's an interesting concept, I like it!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Zebrafinch

Almost everything on the Am I a lesbian masterdoc is something I've experienced or seen on Aven, if you replace lesbian with asexual and men with everyone. Next time I answer a confused newbie I'll refer them to it.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

Definitely think this is a really interesting concept. I've crossed the hump mostly with understanding that I am for sure asexual, but am struggling more so with the potential that I might or might not be aromantic. Perhaps this is because a sexual attraction to someone is a sensation you can physically sense and feel (and I know because exactly one time in my life I've felt it). But with romance, I don't believe there's as much of a physical reaction or a sensory "confirmation" as there is in the sexual/desire parallel. That being said, I guess I could define my experiences as compulsory allosexuality/alloromanticism for the time being. I'm in this strange gray area where I'm unsure if I'm capable of continuing to enjoy the life I'm crafting for myself, mostly alone, or if I'm actually seeking the things that society does so well at making me feel like I "ought" to be seeking. There's definitely a lot of pressure to feel drawn toward marriage, the "stability/structure" of "expected" romance and love, and other pillars of our society's views on love/sex. It's very easy to spend years questioning your own feelings surrounding this because the expectations are just so strong and present literally everywhere - in media, in our families, and social networks. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/3/2020 at 5:02 AM, WellThatsDebatable said:

Do you think there's something like comp allo with regards to being ace?

I feel this so much. This is 90% of the reason I spent so many years struggling to realise I was ace.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel that I've had such experiences in my life as I was talking to a long lost friend of sorts(we've been back in contact for over a month now) about how I had to play pretend to avoid further conflict in my life due to having really strict parents and the fact that everyone knew I wasn't "getting any".  Literally had to fake desires and I'm a terrible faker xD For a while folks even though I was gay

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Nope, not for me anyway.  I'm fiercely opinionated and grounded into my own thing; peer pressure was a concept I never understood, for instance.

Link to post
Share on other sites
WellThatsDebatable
4 hours ago, Philip027 said:

Nope, not for me anyway.  I'm fiercely opinionated and grounded into my own thing; peer pressure was a concept I never understood, for instance.

Fair enough! I'm sure it's not something everyone experiences, and I'm glad for you =). Good on ya! For me it's not really a conscious thing, and more something I realize creeping in when I look back on some things I've felt or imagined in the past. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
DarkStormyKnight

Yeah I definitely think that this is a thing, I found the "Am I a Lesbian" doc earlier this year and it truly threw me for a loop since I had never put those thoughts into words before. There's so much overlap between the lesbian and the asexual experience (which is probably more evident to me as a femme, I'm not sure if the same thing exists for gay men and asexual men). I'm glad to see this sharing of resources!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
MonsterTurtle

In regards to being asexual - no can't say i have.
However when it comes to being aromantic, I still sometimes imagine and dream about having a romantic partner and marrying somebody.
I think that's just because in media and life in general romance and the "special someone" is something always regarded as the most beautiful thing in life.

And I often see my friends being happy while talking about their loved ones ...

While I know that's just not my, sometimes it just doesn't really sink in.
Especially as I just can't imagine what my future will be like

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
WellThatsDebatable
7 hours ago, DarkStormyKnight said:

Yeah I definitely think that this is a thing, I found the "Am I a Lesbian" doc earlier this year and it truly threw me for a loop since I had never put those thoughts into words before. There's so much overlap between the lesbian and the asexual experience (which is probably more evident to me as a femme, I'm not sure if the same thing exists for gay men and asexual men). I'm glad to see this sharing of resources!

Absolutely =). I'm a bit more butch but I felt the same way. You mentioned gay and asexual men- I wonder what the variance of experience is over gender lines. Most (though not all!) of those who responded to this thread were female, and I'd be curious to see if this experience manifests differently or at a different rate in male or nonbinary individuals on the aro/ace spectrum, and if so what those differences are. Comp het was originally primarily focused on lesbians specifically and was primarily laid out as applicable to women (of course there are nb lesbians, not excluding them at all, just it's a mostly female community), but I'd be curious to see how 'comp allo' manifests in different genders. That's not to say it's not possibly super applicable in this particular way to people who aren't female, especially since comp het and comp allo are different, just that I'd be curious to find out! I'd love to see a survey or data collection about this. I'd make one myself but it's hard to ask questions about what I call comp allo when it's not something there's really a commonly used term for that's easily recognizable. I'd have to give a detailed explanation of the concept before even asking questions. I don't really know how to design a survey well anyways =/. With the underrepresentation of academic research about asexuality, and the relative lack of terminology to discuss it, it can be hard to find the answers to stuff like this. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I've certainly encountered the expectation of straightness more often in my life than I'd like.  The way I see it, the framework of "compulsory heterosexuality" can also be applied to other non-straight orientations.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

This makes a lot of sense to me.  Part of the reason it took me until I was 29 to realize I was ace (other than that the concept wasn't really on my radar) is that I've always had crushes on fictional characters, so I took it for granted that I wanted a real-life romance as well.  I was so caught up in the societal narrative of "well, of course I want to fall in love with someone, marry them, and have kids!" that it never crossed my mind to question whether I, myself, actually did want any of that.  When I started to have doubts about my lack of sexual interest in men, I spent a while wondering if I was secretly a lesbian, but that didn't quite seem to fit either, since pretty much all those fictional crushes are on male characters.  (Incidentally, when I have a crush on a character I don't imagine myself with him; it's more like being smitten with his appearance and personality and, where applicable, going starry-eyed over his canon relationship.)

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/7/2020 at 5:23 PM, WellThatsDebatable said:

You mentioned gay and asexual men- I wonder what the variance of experience is over gender lines. Most (though not all!) of those who responded to this thread were female, and I'd be curious to see if this experience manifests differently or at a different rate in male or nonbinary individuals on the aro/ace spectrum, and if so what those differences are. Comp het was originally primarily focused on lesbians specifically and was primarily laid out as applicable to women (of course there are nb lesbians, not excluding them at all, just it's a mostly female community), but I'd be curious to see how 'comp allo' manifests in different genders. That's not to say it's not possibly super applicable in this particular way to people who aren't female, especially since comp het and comp allo are different, just that I'd be curious to find out!

On 7/7/2020 at 5:27 PM, Karst said:

I've certainly encountered the expectation of straightness more often in my life than I'd like.  The way I see it, the framework of "compulsory heterosexuality" can also be applied to other non-straight orientations.

I'm genderqueer but also have complete blank on my sexuality. This 'comphet' or 'comp-allo' is kinda related to what's been on my mind for the past few days to I wanted to add my experience. I get this feeling a lot that I have no idea what my future is gonna look like. Whether it's dating-wise or marriage-- straights, lesbians, and gays seem to know or have an idea what that is going to look like. I have no idea if I can fall in love with someone, who I'd fall in love with, or if I'd be sexually attracted to them. To some degree I do feel sexual attraction, but it's occasional and inconsistent. But I doubt myself a lot, and wonder 'what if I'm actually straight, or what if I'm actually gay?" and I wonder if in those relationships I would have to compromise other aspects of my identity.

 

To me allosexual means that at least I'd belong to the narrative of at least something. Maybe I could fit in better and relate to more people, or just the bigger framework in general, but the honest reality is that I just don't. I feel like my identity is a hard one to understand.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I absolutely 100% experienced this, and I think that's why it was so hard for me to realise I was ace.

 

The entire time in high school, especially in my final year when everyone was getting into relationships and hooking up, I felt this constant pressure to do the same. And even beforehand, there was a constant expectation that having sex, making out with someone, getting into a relationship was something that I would eventually do, even if I wasn't doing it at the time. I internalised that pressure to the point where a major cause of mental distress to me was the fact that I hadn't hooked up with anyone or dated anyone. It never occured to me to think whether I actually wanted to do those things.

 

I also developed 3 crushes over the course of high school. Out of those, I think one was just a squish, one was romantic, and one was probably a result of comp allo. Interestingly despite all this internalised pressure to get into a relationship or hook up with someone I never actually considered what would happen if I got into a relationship. I suspect I would be miserable. I literally never even considered what would happen once I achieved it, it was just like some box I could tick, something I could cross off once I had "done the thing" everyone seemingly wanted me to do.

 

Earlier this year, I did end up hooking up with someone at a party, and unsurprisingly, I didn't enjoy it one bit. In fact, I disassociated through most of the whole thing (thankfully we didn't end up having sex), and when I went home the next day I was disoriented and confused. I didn't know what had happened, and didn't know why I didn't enjoy it. It took 3 months of introspection and slowly untangling my own desires from societal expectations for me to actually realise I was asexual, and had just deeply internalised the societal expectation to hook up and date.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/5/2020 at 2:22 PM, Philip027 said:

Nope, not for me anyway.  I'm fiercely opinionated and grounded into my own thing; peer pressure was a concept I never understood, for instance.

that's amazing :D Wish I had known you when I was at that age honestly. Then again when I was in high school and all that, I didn't know that asexual even existed that it was a thing someone could be.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/13/2020 at 1:08 AM, Acyn said:

Interestingly despite all this internalised pressure to get into a relationship or hook up with someone I never actually considered what would happen if I got into a relationship. I suspect I would be miserable. I literally never even considered what would happen once I achieved it, it was just like some box I could tick, something I could cross off once I had "done the thing" everyone seemingly wanted me to do.

I've never thought about it this way until you mentioned it, but I do the exact same thing! Everything around the idea of a relationship past the point of actually starting to date someone is just a blur. Or else I just imagine the exact scenarios my siblings and peers have told me about and just sort of Photoshop myself in their place. I always used to think that, since I had never experienced it, I couldn't possibly visualize what a relationship would be like, but I do think that my legitimate lack of desire to date anyone created a mental block. I also came up with lots of random excuses as to why I would be a really bad boyfriend, just so I could justify my lack of dating experience. My favorite to this day is "I'm bad at remembering people's birthdays, so I probably won't remember our anniversary, so she'll probably break up with me over that." It sounds really silly, but honestly up until I had the asexual label, those weird excuses saved me from forcing myself to date just because that's what everyone else was doing.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 11 months later...

Yeah, I feel like I have comphet, though I think comp allo could apply as well. I am ace, so either works, but the pressure is almost exclusively tied to the binary expectation of me, someone assigned female at birth, hooking up with someone assigned male at birth. It relies heavily on the binary assumptions of sex and gender and all that fun stuff, which is a big ol' headache on top of it all. I think comphet applies to my experience, even though (if not especially so?) because I'm nonbinary and was raised as a woman (by a woman who really ground in heteronormative expectations... we're no longer in contact, is all I'll say!) But yeah. I'd basically resigned to the cishet life until one day it got so bad I couldn't and left. Yes, sometimes it's just stuff from folks that's generally allo but almost everything has been all about 'you girl, find boy, marry, kids' yada yada. Picking out crushes, selecting suitors from my mother's lineup of approved cishet-y dudes. Yes to comphet, yes to comp-allo, yes to all the things. I think comphet could apply to aces as well as other identities outside just lesbians. But that's just me, my experience, my beliefs, etc. I'm glad I found this thread-- i'm so interested in more perspectives!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I completely understand this and what you're offering as a concept. There was an incident where I had a crush on someone I had a close friendship with, and they had a very high sex drive. I saw myself doing sexual things with them and even interacted with them sexually because of how much I liked them and wished for them to reciprocate. On my own, I wished for none of these sexual things and desired an emotional relationship with them, as opposed to a sexual one. I'm not sure if this feel into the same concept but it's my own personal experience. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...