Wondering how most people use asexual words? Poll

[Grumpy Alien]

I don’t believe asexuality is a spectrum.

[Kitteη χ]

1. Narrowly. May or may not have a libido. Also, excluding demisexuals, gray-as, cupiosexuals, etc
2. Yes- and I use it.
3. Narrowly. May or may not have a libido. Also, excluding demisexuals, gray-as, cupiosexuals, etc

 

For questions 1 and 3,  I don't agree fully with any of the options, since I consider some in "demisexuals, gray-as, cupiosexuals, etc" to be asexual, but not all. An asexual is someone who does not experience sexual attraction. No other qualifications or conditions needed. Ace is synonymous with asexual.

 

I do not consider identities like demisexual or grey-ace to be ace, since they do experience attraction. It's infrequent or only under certain conditions, but it still exists. These are the sort of people that I would call a-spec.

 

I do consider identities like cupiosexual (had to look that one up) or aegosexual to be ace, since they do not experience attraction. People who use those labels have other sexuality-related experiences that they felt such a label was useful in describing. However, that doesn't change their lack of attraction, and therefore they are asexual.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

I don't believe in an "ace spectrum" at all. Ace is 0, 1-10 is the sexual spectrum, and I would say 0.1 - 0.9 is grey. Demis are sexuals with very specific "targets", cupios are sexuals who are feeling the sexual equivalent of "hungry but no food is appealing". I'd do away with the "attraction" part of the definition entirely; it causes nothing but confusion, defintions that make no sense in the real world (there is a world outside Tumblr folks!) and a very anti-sexual view of "I only want sex for special reasons, not like those animalistic sexuals who see attractive people and get horny".

[Homer]

On 7/1/2020 at 8:59 PM, Janus DarkFox said:

I welcome any use of descriptions of Asexuality

So it basically means everything and nothing. I think that's harmful.

[Charna]

9 hours ago, gray-a girl said:

Yes, I can see that it does cause problems. Though, it also causes problems for aspec people too. So it goes both ways. Different kinds of problems, but still problems on both sides. 

 

We are both feeling erasure, just in different ways.

And those "-favorable, indifferent, repulsed" labels are contributing to erasure, imo. If you were to use e.g "men-favorable" lesbian instead of bisexual/pansexual, that would not only mean the erasure of bi- and pansexuality, but would also require that lesbians now clarify whether they are "men-indifferent" and "men-repulsed".

 

This is what happens here. If I have to declare I'm sex-indifferent/repulsed each time, might as well stop using the asexual part.

[CharCharChar]

I'm happy to see people in this thread are able to discuss this kindly. You all rock 🍰

 

It is fascinating to be at a moment in time where these conversations could impact the meaning of words.

 

I really appreciate @AceMissBehaving for laying out why it's a problem. In the past, I've gotten a rude and vague "that's harmful" response to my broader view on asexuality. I understand they might not have wanted to engage the point further because of the mess of definition fights before my time, but the reasons behind this view aren't easy to find through searches. I'm amazed how my feelings and negative experiences on this issue overlap with AceMissBehaving's, even though we believe differently from eachother. 

It is unfortunate that some individuals on the narrow view are saying things like "demis are just confused by a hypersexualized media" and some individuals on the broad viewpoint are overpolicing the way "full" aces present themselves. 

I wish I had a better term than "narrow" because it feels like I'm calling that view "narrow minded".

Does anyone on the "narrow" side have a suggestion for a term that means "someone who wants people to stop using ace to mean aspec, who might also think the rush to be sex positive / define the orientation by attraction and not behavior and desire / overpromoting the spectrum has made aces outsiders in their own space / opened the door to more misconceptions" -- or if you feel like that's not an accurate summary of some of the "narrow" concerns I'm open to editing it. 
 

[Skycaptain]

I have to differ with the way BoD phrase things. I feel that asexuality is the null point on the sexual spectrum, and not a spectrum in its own right. To me that seems counterintuitive. It's like with light and colour. A rainbow is the spectrum. You can call a colour, say yellow, and there are different shades of yellow, but they're all part of the same spectrum. Same with asexuality. You can have shades ranging from no libido, no desire, no attraction, total repulsion at one end, to libido, some levels of desire, attraction and positivity as Asexual melds into other levels on the sexual spectrum. So Greys, demis etc can still fall within asexual in the same way as scarlet and cerise both fall under red in the colour spectrum 

[Guest]

Damned if I know by this point.

[Janus the Fox]

5 hours ago, Homer said:

So it basically means everything and nothing.I think that's harmful.

What I mean is everybody is welcome to come foreword with their own descriptions that are valid for themselves.

 

I take a moderate approach not to exclude groups.  An inclusive approach as a mod too.

 

A reminder that identifying with something for yourselves that feels right and feels accurate is perfectly valid.

 

We do need to avoid Gatekeeping themes for the sake of the membership that has nowhere else to go if such members feel unsafe here. 

[Homer]

46 minutes ago, Janus DarkFox said:

We do need to avoid Gatekeeping themes for the sake of the membership that has nowhere else to go if such members feel unsafe here. 

Saying that apples and bananas are different things is not "gatekeeping".

[Guest]

imho:

 

Asexual, an endpoint in the spectrum.

Sexual, an endpoint on the other side of the spectrum.

(A)Sexuality, the spectrum of how "sexual/asexual" one is.

Demi/gray-sexual, not sexual, not asexual, but a degree of (a)sexuality is there. 

 

This is why demi/gray fall under the asexuality umbrella. They somewhat relate to feeling like this. They're partially asexual so to say.

[Charna]

2 hours ago, Janus DarkFox said:

What I mean is everybody is welcome to come foreword with their own descriptions that are valid for themselves.

The problem with that is that these descriptions are shared among many and expanding a label to include every definition as valid can lead to unsafe spaces.

 

If you think that is gatekeeping, then what are labels even for? Would you say to someone homosexual that a heterosexual calling themselves gay is fine, because every definition is valid to you?

[Grumpy Alien]

1 hour ago, Charna said:

The problem with that is that these descriptions are shared among many and expanding a label to include every definition as valid can lead to unsafe spaces.

 

If you think that is gatekeeping, then what are labels even for? Would you say to someone homosexual that a heterosexual calling themselves gay is fine, because every definition is valid to you?

The trouble with AVEN is that words like asexual are meaningless. If you say you’re an invisible lamppost, you are an invisible lamppost. It might hurt the invisible lamppost’s feelings if anyone were to suggest otherwise, even if the invisible lamppost repeatedly asks “What if I’m actually human and other people can see me?” So it’s best to never contradict them at all because who’s to say what the definitions of invisible or lamppost even are? 

[gray-a girl]

19 hours ago, AceMissBehaving said:

I get that, but there’s a difference in ticking the closest box “I’m pan but I ticked Bi because it was the closest option” on a medical form, and claiming something as a personal identity. (I usually check other because asexual isn’t even listed I also live in an enormously LGBTQ+ inclusive city)

Also medical stuff is always crappy for most aspec people “That’s not a real thing” “I’m sure but you need to have this done anyway”

 

Also forgot to mention, in the last two cases where I talked to doctors, there was no box to check off it was an open ended question. I used the term "sex favorable asexual" though I am leaning towards using cupiosexual in the future. (Though it's kind of confusing because some googled definitions have the two words meaning exactly the same thing, while others have a slight variation between them). But you know,  if you look up the term sex favorable asexual, the definition that google spits out fits me for the most part. (depending on which version it spits out, cupiosexual may fit better). But I had trouble with one doctor who told me I wasn't asexual, even though sex favorable asexual is a real term and orientation that is used by a number of other people. Some Ace's here on AVEN may not like the term and may argue on its validity, but yo cannot deny that its actually used by a number of people. But, you know, in the poll I checked off that asexual means someone on the aspec spectrum as well as its own distinct orientation, so thats how I use it as well.

 

 

 

17 hours ago, Mackenzie Holiday said:

When I discuss the definition of asexuality, and all of the subcategories of the ace spectrum, I try to represent each category in whatever way the people within that category tend to represent it themselves. I can't make everyone happy, but I try to relay what I've learned about the experiences of others in the hopes of being constructive and helpful.

 

I think it's unavoidable that asexuality is going to mean different things to different people because sex and sexuality can be experienced very differently by different people, and I think that's perfectly okay. To use my own experience as an example, the label I've given myself here on AVEN seems to disagree with how most gray asexuals here represent themselves, but I feel like it fits me because of the unusual way I experience my sexuality. By the most common definition of asexual (and that of the AVEN FAQ), I should probably consider myself an asexual without the gray. I have no innate desire for sex (by the most common definition of sex I've seen here and elsewhere). There are no rare circumstances where I experience this sort of sexual desire innately. After years of reflection, I believe my past desires for this kind of contact had more to do with feeling pressured and how I had conditioned myself to be more "normal" combined with a lack of opportunity for the nonsexual forms of intimacy I would have preferred. But I've categorized my orientation as gray asexual anyway because the way my sexuality works leaves room for potentially having a genuine sexual/erotic connection with someone through means that the vast majority of people wouldn't consider to be sex, but some people might find to be just as real of a sexual connection as any other. This kind of connection isn't something I seek out, but it's something I would probably really enjoy if given the opportunity. So, to most people, I would be thought of as just asexual because they wouldn't recognize my version of sexual connection as a sexual connection at all, so more often than not I just call myself asexual. But for a tiny  percentage of people, including myself, gray-A would probably fit better. Given that I am one of those people in that tiny percentage where gray-A would be more accurate, it makes sense to me to self-identify as gray-A, so that's how I identify on my profile here.

 

Knowing what it's like to experience myself and my sexuality in a way that's so different from how most others tend to think of sexuality, I think I have an easier time recognizing the simultaneous validity of seemingly contradictory definitions of asexual, because I know that those identities make sense in the context of the subjective experiences of the individuals using those definitions. As an extension of this, I tend to think of asexuality in looser terms than a lot of people here tend to do.

I think you are right about asexuality meaning different things to different people.

As far as your orientation, I think nobody should decide for you what you are except for yourself. You know yourself best, so saying that other people might call you asexual ...they don't have the right to make that determination, only you do. Kudos to you for using the term you feel fits you best, regardless of where others want to place you. I have to do that as well because I just don't relate to sexuals, but I get a lot of push back (at least when the AVEN rules aren't enforced or before there were rules on it).

[Charna]

26 minutes ago, gray-a girl said:

As far as your orientation, I think nobody should decide for you what you are except for yourself. You know yourself best, so saying that other people might call you asexual ...they don't have the right to make that determination, only you do. Kudos to you for using the term you feel fits you best, regardless of where others want to place you. I have to do that as well because I just don't relate to sexuals, but I get a lot of push back (at least when the AVEN rules aren't enforced or before there were rules on it).

There is a difference between trying to find a label and space that fits you, and redesigning labels and spaces until they fit you. 'I don't relate to sexuals' doesn't define a sexual orientation anymore that 'I don't relate to straight people' would. It simply tells you that this person isn't allosexual or heterosexual.

 

1 hour ago, Kimchi Peanut said:

The trouble with AVEN is that words like asexual are meaningless. If you say you’re an invisible lamppost, you are an invisible lamppost.

Yep. At which point we might do away with labels altogether. Tbh, I don't get where this 'favorable, indifferent, repulsed' comes from. Admittedly I don't frequent LGBT communities, but I don't hear it being applied to other sexual orientations.

 

[gray-a girl]

1 hour ago, Charna said:

There is a difference between trying to find a label and space that fits you, and redesigning labels and spaces until they fit you. 'I don't relate to sexuals' doesn't define a sexual orientation anymore that 'I don't relate to straight people' would. It simply tells you that this person isn't allosexual or heterosexual.

 

Yep. At which point we might do away with labels altogether. Tbh, I don't get where this 'favorable, indifferent, repulsed' comes from. Admittedly I don't frequent LGBT communities, but I don't hear it being applied to other sexual orientations.

 

For your first point, thats why I did this poll. I wanted to see where the community is on the word and definition of asexuality. It seems that a lot of people, slightly over half (54%) currently see asexual as part of the asexual spectrum. As meaning the same thing as the asexual spectrum. (So including demis, gray-as, and cupios). So that makes me confident in using that term in that way. (Also, the AVEN definition includes an OR in there... no sexual attraction OR/and no interest in sex). And I can tell you, the two really are very different.

 

I feel fairly confident that I'm not redefining a term until it fits me, but rather using a term in how a majority of people use it. If the vast majority of people were using the term asexual differently, I would abandon using that term and I was prepared to do that when I created this poll. But that doesn't seem necessary. And, I of course would never use the term sex repulsed asexual, I'd never touch that, and demisexual doesn't fit me either. No need to redefine that to fit me, since it just doesn't. (And same with sexual, no need to redefine THAT to fit me either).

To your second point, I think the sex favorable, sex indifferent, and sex repulsed comes from some asexuals feeling upset that they might be lumped together with people who are willing to have sex to please their partner, or who want to have sex because they're into it for whatever reason. A lot of (what I assume are) sex repulsed asexuals are upset that they don't have a term that means ONLY for them. Except that they do... sex repulsed asexual. It's not a bad term, and it really gets at the meat of what they are worried about: erasure, especially in their serious desire to never have sex. I don't think it's ok to erase other orientations, and rip away their identities (or try to) when there really is a term for people who never, don't ever, want sex. Maybe people don't like the term, but it is there. I don't want to get into an argument about this point so I respectfully ask that we do not do so. I know others feel differently about that. Of course they can choose to forgo using "sex repulsed asexual" but the term DOES exist for them to use, if they should wish it.

But you know, I'm not particularly keen on the term cupiosexual, I think it sounds rather stupid and I don't understand why cupio is the term that was chosen (cupio, as in cupid? What for?), but it is useful for me to use. So I will be using it. I may also use sex favorable asexual, since it seems the two terms are commonly used interchangeably. I think, for asexuals who are worried that they will be lumped together with people who are willing to, or want to have sex, sex repulsed asexuals is not a bad term.

For the most part, I'm using words in how the majority of people are using them. Right now, the split is almost 50-50, for using the term asexual to mean aspec, so I still don't feel like I shouldn't use it that way. If the split was something like 15% are using asexual to mean aspec, then that would be different, but that doesn't seem to be the case. A lot of people are defining the term to mean aspec. And I've heard other asexual communities aren't as harsh on this issue (having as many people defining asexuality so narrowly) as AVEN. So even this poll may be skewed a little compared to the wider asexual community.

[Charna]

15 hours ago, gray-a girl said:

For your first point, thats why I did this poll. I wanted to see where the community is on the word and definition of asexuality. It seems that a lot of people, slightly over half (54%) currently see asexual as part of the asexual spectrum. As meaning the same thing as the asexual spectrum. (So including demis, gray-as, and cupios). So that makes me confident in using that term in that way. (Also, the AVEN definition includes an OR in there... no sexual attraction OR/and no interest in sex). And I can tell you, the two really are very different.

 

I feel fairly confident that I'm not redefining a term until it fits me, but rather using a term in how a majority of people use it. If the vast majority of people were using the term asexual differently, I would abandon using that term and I was prepared to do that when I created this poll. But that doesn't seem necessary. And, I of course would never use the term sex repulsed asexual, I'd never touch that, and demisexual doesn't fit me either. No need to redefine that to fit me, since it just doesn't. (And same with sexual, no need to redefine THAT to fit me either).

To your second point, I think the sex favorable, sex indifferent, and sex repulsed comes from some asexuals feeling upset that they might be lumped together with people who are willing to have sex to please their partner, or who want to have sex because they're into it for whatever reason. A lot of (what I assume are) sex repulsed asexuals are upset that they don't have a term that means ONLY for them. Except that they do... sex repulsed asexual. It's not a bad term, and it really gets at the meat of what they are worried about: erasure, especially in their serious desire to never have sex. I don't think it's ok to erase other orientations, and rip away their identities (or try to) when there really is a term for people who never, don't ever, want sex. Maybe people don't like the term, but it is there. I don't want to get into an argument about this point so I respectfully ask that we do not do so. I know others feel differently about that. Of course they can choose to forgo using "sex repulsed asexual" but the term DOES exist for them to use, if they should wish it.
 

Why do you think is using a poll on open forum is the way to define a sexual orientation? Anyone can register & vote here; it's a community in the sense we are all forum users here. 

 

I might not be an English speaker, but to me "repulsed" has a strong negative connotation, "indifferent" is neutral at best, and negative on some days due to some bad past experiences, and neither is on equal standing with "favorable". This is something I might be willing to share and discuss on anonymous forums, but not in public. But for you, even though that label doesn't apply to you, it's not a bad term, so we should just use it. How is that different from a heterosexual telling someone LGBT which terms they might use and how it applies to them? At the core of it, your argument is the argument of a "vote of majority". 

 

Which is why I think this approach will lead to dissolution of safe spaces for minorities. 

[Catserole]

On 7/2/2020 at 2:18 AM, Anthracite_Impreza said:

I don't believe in an "ace spectrum" at all. Ace is 0, 1-10 is the sexual spectrum. 

I'd say that's closest to how I've come to see this stuff. It makes more sense to me to think in terms of a sexual spectrum than an asexual spectrum. 

 

One thing I often feel gets downplayed in these discussions is the variety that exists among sexual people: what sex means to them, under what circumstances they want to have sex, and how they want to have sex. In that context some labels just seem like hair-splitting to me, honestly. 

 

 

[Davida]

I identify as asexual. I neither experience sexual attraction to others, nor do I desire to engage in sexual behavior. I answered the poll according to my understanding of how asexuality, aspec, and ace seem to be commonly defined. When voting I did not consider what makes sense to me personally even though the poll clearly asks "how do you...".  Reflecting on all the comments here may be the first time I've devoted copious thought to these matters, and after having done so, I would change my vote. Here is how I personally feel at the moment.

 

That all of human a/sexuality would exist on the same spectrum makes more sense to me than a disjoint asexuality spectrum because the prefix "a" means "not" which seems rather absolute to me. A sexuality spectrum cannot be linear (i.e. 0 - 10), but is multidimensional. The null point is (0, 0, 0, ... however many dimensions one may define), that is, all "nots". Then such orientations as demisexual, cupiosexual, greysexual, etc. would have at least one nonzero coordinate. So, in this context, the question becomes does asexual mean all zeros, or some minimum number of zeros; and if the latter, what do we call all zeros? I do not know the ideal utilitarian answer to this. Personally, based on my current level of understanding, I would make the distinction between asexual being synonymous with ace meaning the all zeros case, and aspec which would include such orientations as demi, grey, cupio, etc. (By the way @gray-a girl, the prefix "cupio" is Latin and means "desire". The same root appears in the name Cupid who is the god of desire.)

 

I do not care for the qualifiers repulsed/indifferent/favorable for reasons @AceMissBehaving & @Charna have illustrated. In particular, I would like to reiterate the point made by @Charna concerning the implications of words such as these. I don't want a word related to "repulsive" attached to a label for my sexual orientation; good Lord, don't we have enough obstacles to overcome already? Certainly I understand that "repulsed" in "sex repulsed asexual" refers to my reaction to sex and not to me, but the implication is there and not exactly subtle. As an asexual who is neither sexually attracted to others nor desires to engage in sexual behavior, "sex repulsed asexual" sounds redundant to me at best, and insistent/defensive at worse (like having to insist that no means no). 

 

I have come across the term "apotheosexual" (I've also seen it spelled apothisexual, which likely seems a typo) which apparently is to "sex repulsed asexual" as "cupiosexual" is to "sex favorable asexual". Apotheo in Latin means quintessence, or the unqualified form of something. In this context, "purely not". I am not exactly sure how I feel about the term apotheosexual at present, but I do feel that's infinitely better than having the word "repulsed" attached to one's sexual orientation. 

[iff]

@gray-a girl

 

This poll is being locked and moved to the read only Census archive for it's respective year. As part of ongoing Census organisation, and in an attempt to keep the demographics of the polls current with the active user base at the time, the polls will last for one year from now on. However, members are allowed and even encouraged to restart new polls similar to the archived ones if they like them.

  

iff, Census Forum Moderator