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Why are cupiosexuals generally invalidated on AVEN but demisexuals are not?


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gray-a girl

I’ve been invalidated here so many times it isn’t even funny. Because I identify as cupiosexual. I’ve even been invalidated a lot since AVEN put new rules into play, forbidding people from invalidating others and telling them that they’re not asexual or that they’re sexual.

 

Note- if you want to tell me I’m not asexual do not do it. It’s against AVEN rules and I’ve heard it dozens of times before, I’m so sick of it.

 

Despite saying that, I’m pretty sure that some very unwelcoming person on here will go on to tell me I’m really sexual or just a snowflake, since it’s happened so many times before. Generally I have been avoiding AVEN and I will

probably regret, again, posting here.

 

However I have a question that’s really bothering me. My question is, why aren't demisexuals invalidated as much as cupiosexuals? Demisexuals do like sex and I honestly think they’re closer to sexual on the asexual spectrum than I am as a cupiosexual. (Still asexual of course but it just seems that on the spectrum they fall closer to sexual than a cupiosexual would, since we never experience sexual attraction). So why does it seem like they’re not constantly invalidated here but I am?
 

Or am I missing something and they are invalidated in every post they make too?

 

So far my going theory is that there are just many more demisexuals out there. But I just wanted to post this question because I don’t get it, why they are accepted here but I’m not.

 

And again I’m sure someone will invalidate me here, it always happens. I will probably regret posting here again. This has been a horribly unwelcoming, nasty community towards me. Some people are nice but their voices are always drowned out by people telling me what my orientation is.

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Celyn: The Lutening

Ceebs is right, demis aren't ace ace, we're just aspec. And the same goes for cupiosexuals.

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Celyn: The Lutening
3 minutes ago, CBC said:

It's perfectly ok for people who aren't asexual to have experiences that are similar to those of aces and to be able to relate, hang out on AVEN, etc

*Happy demi hug*

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AVEN is pretty much a lost case in this regard anyway.

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Aww, as someone who joined yesterday, I'm sorry to hear that. . .

 

Part of the reason might be, that concept of sexual attraction is alien to most pure asexuals, and they don't understand the difference between sexual attraction & someone wanting into sexual relationship (I just wikied Cupio, which is part of the problem: it isn't widely known). I don't even quite understand it. Tho if I had to guess, one could think of it as really close to asexuals who masturbate, but cupios prefer to do the act with other human body. The stimulus is basically same, and in addition there is closeness with the partner. But you feel no sexual attraction towards your partner. Only the act. Even if you romantically or platonically very much still like your partner. (Do correct if my wild hypothesizing is utter bs false).

 

I accept you to ace-spectrum. It can be bit confusing that the spectrum is named after it's most solid strict sexuality. Cupio might be under GreyAce. Demi is under, on my view, GreyAce. And whatever I am is likely under GreyAce. We all feel alienated, in a way, by allosexuals. Some of us just haven't gotten the full blessing/curse of being free of our body's needs. I dunno.

 

. . . yee I've got nothing more, I don't know enough of who have wronged you, about cupiosexuality, about the common idea of Aspec. . . 🖤💜🤍❤️

 

 

Edited by Borderline
Tried to make the GreyAce part less strict on classifying what is what.
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I'm  really sorry you're being invalidated on aven!

This is a large community so it's unavoidable that  people have clashing opinions, but I don't really understand the mindset when ace people, who are always being gatekept and erased, gatekeep and erase others. I think a lot of asexuals have internalised the mindset of unnecessary "snowflake" identities. Like asexuality is real and valid, and demisexuality is also pretty widely discussed, but cupiosexual? Now you're just making things up for attention. Of course, this is the exact same thing allos say about a- and demisexuality.

 

Who gets hurt by including a wider spectrum of identities under the asexual umbrella? Literally no one, except for maybe purveyors of respectability politics, and I really have no energy to deal with them. 

 

Also great to see that people are so unable to keep their opinions to themselves that they explicitly go against the OP's wishes. /s

I hope you'll find a place where you feel safe! There are so many wonderful people on aven who appreciate you for who you are, but I understand that the negative comments are always heard the loudest. 

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NickyTannock
54 minutes ago, gray-a girl said:

My question is, why aren't demisexuals invalidated as much as cupiosexuals?

I think it's because of a disagreement about the definition of asexuality.

To me, asexuality is a lack of sexual attraction, so cupiosexuals would be a type of asexual.

But there are others on the forum that define asexuality as a lack of desire for sexual relationships, which leaves cupiosexuals out.

 

The comment below offers a possible explanation for the disagreement as well,

9 minutes ago, Borderline said:

Part of the reason might be, that concept of sexual attraction is alien to most pure asexuals, and they don't understand the difference between sexual attraction & someone wanting into sexual relationship (I just wikied Cupio, which is part of the problem: it isn't widely known).

 

But beyond offering an answer to your question, I must say that I'm sorry.
I don't want anyone to feel unwelcome here.

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Mackenzie Holiday

My understanding of why invalidation occurs the way it does here boils down to people having conflicting reasons for finding “asexual“ a useful label. Some people find asexual a useful label because it plainly communicates that they are not and will never be interested in a sexual relationship with anyone, no matter what anyone else might do. Others find it useful for expressing how utterly alienating their subjective experience around sex is when they can’t find anyone attractive. People in the first group might feel like the asexual label will be less helpful to them if people in the second are interested in sex for reasons other than attraction, and people in the second group will have trouble feeling like they’re not broken or defective if they’re told they can’t identify as asexual should they happen to want sexual interactions for whatever reason. I think the reason demisexuals don’t get invalidated so much is because demisexuals for the most part don’t equate their overall experience with those of asexuals, so people don’t tend to feel like the usefulness of the asexual label is being threatened.
 

Personally, I think the label asexual is best used when it effectively communicates something that would be relevant to a potential partner, whether that’s a lack of innate desire for sex, or a lack of attraction to anyone, those are both relevant things to communicate to a potential partner, and they’re both things no one should have to feel weird, wrong, or broken for feeling.

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BlakeTheNightowl~

yeah agreed ^^ 

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i am technically demisexual, as I've only been interested in a sexual relationship with one person, my wife. And only after 6 or so months of dating. 

 

However, I don't ID as asexual, because... I don't feel like demisexual is asexual. So, I just use sexual. I don't run into any issues because I'm not saying "I have two drawers of sex toys, I have sex with my wife at least once a week, we both love it, we both desire each other and I am asexual". 

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BlakeTheNightowl~

demisexual would be on it's own label and so is cupio is a preference 

Edited by BlakeTheNightowl~
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Janus the Fox

A reminder to tread very carefully with wording as a pre-request.  Members are free to report anything that even feels invalidating, then we as Admods can sort it all out.  This is a discussion on a question, not a personal identity policing,  I may have to actively monitor this as may lead down the same track as last time, I'll also like to avoid Definition Debating as that's not he question.

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11 minutes ago, Janus DarkFox said:

A reminder to tread very carefully with wording as a pre-request.  Members are free to report anything that even feels invalidating, then we as Admods can sort it all out.  This is a discussion on a question, not a personal identity policing,  I may have to actively monitor this as may lead down the same track as last time, I'll also like to avoid Definition Debating as that's not he question.

Well, if anyone reports me ... I've only said my own reasons for 1) Not IDing as ace and 2) Not running into any issues despite being "demisexual"  :P So unless you guys vote funny, I'm not worried. 

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I consider cupiosexuality something strange that differs depending on how one defines asexuality. So I view it as a form of asexuality or something very close to it. I don't consider demisexuals the same because they do experience sexual attraction even if it's only under certain situations. But as others have said, both would be aspec at the least. 

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Honestly, if you hate this place so much, what keeps you coming back?

 

All these threads I see from you basically amount to "this place suuuuucked and it likely still suuuuucks" and I'm not expecting this to change by the time you make the next one.

 

Quote

I'll also like to avoid Definition Debating as that's not he question.

It is literally impossible to address the topic title's question without also getting into the definition of these terms and why they do/don't fit.

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everywhere and nowhere

It seems to me that "sexual attraction" is a very confusing term and I definitely prefer the desire-based definition of asexuality.

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Gifted With Singleness
2 hours ago, Mackenzie Holiday said:

Personally, I think the label asexual is best used when it effectively communicates something that would be relevant to a potential partner

This is why it doesn't make sense to me to define sexual attraction as "looking at someone and immediately wanting to have sex with them", as some people seem to want to do. As if people regularly have conversations like this:

 

"I want to have sex with you because you're good-looking."

"I also want to have sex with you, but it's not because of your looks."

"Yeah, this relationship isn't going to work."

 

Seriously, does that sort of thing ever happen? Sure, I suppose that looks might come up in conversation from time to time, but this sort of thing seems like a very minor inconvenience. By contrast, if one person doesn't want to have sex at all or isn't drawn to their partner in that way, that's going to make the relationship a lot more difficult, even if they're perfectly willing to have sex.

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gray-a girl
4 hours ago, Borderline said:

Aww, as someone who joined yesterday, I'm sorry to hear that. . .

 

Part of the reason might be, that concept of sexual attraction is alien to most pure asexuals, and they don't understand the difference between sexual attraction & someone wanting into sexual relationship (I just wikied Cupio, which is part of the problem: it isn't widely known). I don't even quite understand it. Tho if I had to guess, one could think of it as really close to asexuals who masturbate, but cupios prefer to do the act with other human body. The stimulus is basically same, and in addition there is closeness with the partner. But you feel no sexual attraction towards your partner. Only the act. Even if you romantically or platonically very much still like your partner. (Do correct if my wild hypothesizing is utter bs false).

 

I accept you to ace-spectrum. It can be bit confusing that the spectrum is named after it's most solid strict sexuality. Cupio might be under GreyAce. Demi is under, on my view, GreyAce. And whatever I am is likely under GreyAce. We all feel alienated, in a way, by allosexuals. Some of us just haven't gotten the full blessing/curse of being free of our body's needs. I dunno.

 

. . . yee I've got nothing more, I don't know enough of who have wronged you, about cupiosexuality, about the common idea of Aspec. . . 🖤💜🤍❤️

 

 

 

I think thats probably very true. How can you understand something you've never experienced? And your comment about asexuals that masterbate... and just preferring to do it with a partner for various (non- attraction) reasons, hits the nail on the head. Your hypothesis is right. For me, I'm kinky, it's the only thing that turns me on, but some kinks are pretty much impossible to do alone. I'm not talking about silk scarves by the way, but some of the more extreme stuff. My biggest kink is not, by itself, to non-kinky people, sexual in any way. It just is to me. And it requires another person for it to work.

 

 

3 hours ago, frostboot said:

I'm  really sorry you're being invalidated on aven!

This is a large community so it's unavoidable that  people have clashing opinions, but I don't really understand the mindset when ace people, who are always being gatekept and erased, gatekeep and erase others. I think a lot of asexuals have internalised the mindset of unnecessary "snowflake" identities. Like asexuality is real and valid, and demisexuality is also pretty widely discussed, but cupiosexual? Now you're just making things up for attention. Of course, this is the exact same thing allos say about a- and demisexuality.

 

Who gets hurt by including a wider spectrum of identities under the asexual umbrella? Literally no one, except for maybe purveyors of respectability politics, and I really have no energy to deal with them. 

 

Also great to see that people are so unable to keep their opinions to themselves that they explicitly go against the OP's wishes. /s

I hope you'll find a place where you feel safe! There are so many wonderful people on aven who appreciate you for who you are, but I understand that the negative comments are always heard the loudest. 

 

I think that's true. Cupiosexuals, apparently, are rare. I heard one person say we are 1% of the asexual/aspec community. I also don't understand why people who are often erased and invalidated turn around and do so to others.

 

 

3 hours ago, Mackenzie Holiday said:

My understanding of why invalidation occurs the way it does here boils down to people having conflicting reasons for finding “asexual“ a useful label. Some people find asexual a useful label because it plainly communicates that they are not and will never be interested in a sexual relationship with anyone, no matter what anyone else might do. Others find it useful for expressing how utterly alienating their subjective experience around sex is when they can’t find anyone attractive. People in the first group might feel like the asexual label will be less helpful to them if people in the second are interested in sex for reasons other than attraction, and people in the second group will have trouble feeling like they’re not broken or defective if they’re told they can’t identify as asexual should they happen to want sexual interactions for whatever reason. I think the reason demisexuals don’t get invalidated so much is because demisexuals for the most part don’t equate their overall experience with those of asexuals, so people don’t tend to feel like the usefulness of the asexual label is being threatened.
 

Personally, I think the label asexual is best used when it effectively communicates something that would be relevant to a potential partner, whether that’s a lack of innate desire for sex, or a lack of attraction to anyone, those are both relevant things to communicate to a potential partner, and they’re both things no one should have to feel weird, wrong, or broken for feeling.

You also hit the nail on the head. I don't really relate to people who have sexual crushes (or any crushes actually) and I find it a useful label to be open and communicate with my partner. I think you are also right that some people want to use the asexual label as a way to say that they don't ever want sex, ever, under any circumstances. They probably feel like, if cupiosexuals are included, some people will be expecting them to want sex. But, I think, this can be mitigated by education- basically explaining that cupiosexuals are rare, and that most asexuals don't want sex. I'm happy to explain that when I explain my orientation, and I always do mention that. I don't want sex repulsed or sex indifferent asexuals to feel pressured into sex.

I think also, I am basically seeing asexual = aspec. I use the terms interchangeably. I think, when you go outside of the asexual community, that makes sense. I also don't think I'm the only one that sees it this way. But maybe people who are not just aspec, but "pure" asexual, get miffed about this. Also when I look up the definition of cupiosexual, it does state that it is a type of asexual.

 

 

3 hours ago, Serran said:

i am technically demisexual, as I've only been interested in a sexual relationship with one person, my wife. And only after 6 or so months of dating. 

 

However, I don't ID as asexual, because... I don't feel like demisexual is asexual. So, I just use sexual. I don't run into any issues because I'm not saying "I have two drawers of sex toys, I have sex with my wife at least once a week, we both love it, we both desire each other and I am asexual". 

I guess the main reason I "ID" as asexual is because I see asexual as synonymous with aspec. So when I say "I'm asexual" you can translate that to "I'm aspec". To be they are synonymous... maybe I should consider using the term aspec here, to avoid arguments, even though I feel like, it should be the same thing as asexual. I also cannot really relate to sexuals. I think I'm probably a bit demi-romantic as well, though sometimes I feel a sort of emotional attraction to people... like I want to get to know them better and they seem like cool people, and it would be nice to be emotionally close to them. But on the other hand I don't like kissing, and take a looong time to fall in love with someone, if it happens at all. Even so, I don't know if demi-romantic fits. Maybe, maybe not.

I am thinking of just using the term aspec on here to avoid arguments, even though to me its the same thing as asexual. (And there are others that see it this way as well, from what I've read). That being said, I can't really relate to sexuals, so I don't really consider myself one. But, hey, if it avoids arguments, I can use the term aspec.

I do find it interesting that a couple of demisexuals on here aren't identifying as asexual. But I assume they identify as aspec?

Awhile ago I was IDing as a sex favorable asexual, but decided to change it to cupiosexual for a couple of reasons. First, I looked up the definition of sex favorable asexual, and it was not quite right. (I had assumed it to be one thing, but it was not). Second, it gives the "you're not asexual" people a chance to have their way and not get into an argument, yet allows me to use a word that defines me and has useful purposes. I can side-step that entire argument altogether, because people can think what they want about cupiosexuals, (they are asexual, or they're not asexual) and it wouldn't even come up in the conversation. 

I do sort of dislike the sound of the word, though, sounds kind of dumb, but I'll have to live with it. I also read arguments by people against IDing as cupiosexual (and instead arguing to ID as sex favorable asexual) that were pretty compelling, which is why I didn't use the word originally, but I think at this point with so many people falling on the "yes asexual, no asexual" argument, its just easier to use cupiosexual.

I do kind of feel like on the asexual spectrum, though, that demisexuals are closer to sexual than asexual compared to cupiosexuals. 

P.s. I got to say... two drawers of sex toys? Wow that's a lot...

 

1 hour ago, Philip027 said:

Honestly, if you hate this place so much, what keeps you coming back?

 

All these threads I see from you basically amount to "this place suuuuucked and it likely still suuuuucks" and I'm not expecting this to change by the time you make the next one.

 

It is literally impossible to address the topic title's question without also getting into the definition of these terms and why they do/don't fit.

I've been burned a lot here. I'm basically begging people, in my OP, to not go there again. I keep returning because I keep hoping that things will be different. (And yay! So far they are in this thread!!) And also, I sometimes have a question or thought that really only relates to the asexual/aspec community. Like this one. I'm sort of getting my answer a little... demisexuals aren't IDing as asexual is that right? But (I think?) instead, as aspec? I see them as one in the same, but other people I guess do not. To me, I cannot really relate to sexuals. I can relate better to asexuals, even the ones that don't want sex. There was a time I did not want PiV sex,  at all, though mostly because it hurts often. Not really an orientation reason, to be fair, but I can also simultaneously relate to not having an innate desire for sex, since I've usually had a low libido throughout my life. I guess the biggest thing, though, is  I cannot relate to how sexuals feel attraction to others.  I cannot relate to desiring someone.

 

I do want to say though that anyone railing against me Iding as asexual... (privately, in their minds)... please just translate asexual = aspec because thats how I'm using the term. But if forced to choose asexual or sexual, I feel I relate more to asexual.

Yeah, I'm really considering just using the term aspec when here instead  of asexual, even though I don't consider myself sexual. I really dislike the arguments and people can hold their own private beliefs and not getting into arguments with me if I use that term. It just sort of side-steps it. It's kind of irritating that I feel pressured into having to do this, but, I really am tired of the arguments and invalidation.

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gray-a girl
5 minutes ago, GiftedWithSingleness said:

This is why it doesn't make sense to me to define sexual attraction as "looking at someone and immediately wanting to have sex with them", as some people seem to want to do. As if people regularly have conversations like this:

 

"I want to have sex with you because you're good-looking."

"I also want to have sex with you, but it's not because of your looks."

"Yeah, this relationship isn't going to work."

 

Seriously, does that sort of thing ever happen? Sure, I suppose that looks might come up in conversation from time to time, but this sort of thing seems like a very minor inconvenience. By contrast, if one person doesn't want to have sex at all or isn't drawn to their partner in that way, that's going to make the relationship a lot more difficult, even if they're perfectly willing to have sex.

I define sexual attraction as, being aroused by the person. I think it doesn't necessarily mean they want to have sex with the person... but they are aroused by them. If that's not sexual attraction, then I have absolutely no idea what sexual attraction is. Some people define it as "wanting to have sex with a person" which, I think is the same thing basically. But I never really look at someone and want to have sex with them, either. 

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Mackenzie Holiday
11 minutes ago, GiftedWithSingleness said:

This is why it doesn't make sense to me to define sexual attraction as "looking at someone and immediately wanting to have sex with them", as some people seem to want to do.

There are definitely a lot of things someone might find attractive about another person besides their looks. It could be their personality, their dependability, their sense of humor, the list goes on. However, if someone just needs an extra set of hands in order to enjoy themselves to the fullest but doesn't find anything sexually appealing about their partner (or anyone else) whatsoever, would their partner really feel desired? I know I wouldn't. And I feel like that could potentially make a relationship just as difficult as one in which they didn't want sex to be a component of the relationship at all.

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gray-a girl
12 minutes ago, CBC said:

Ok so, say that... let's go with 'Fred'... say that Fred literally never gets a boner from looking at hot people. He loves his partner, but also doesn't get aroused just from looking at them either, regardless of whether they're conventionally 'hot'. But, Fred loves sex. When he's in a sexual situation with someone (and let's say that he's had casual hookups and also been in love), he gets aroused because sexual stuff is happening. He can't imagine living without partnered sex, and on top of that, he has a fairly high libido and likes to have quite a lot of sex.

 

Is he really asexual?

 

Note: I'm NOT saying that's exactly your personal experience. Just curious how you'd ID this hypothetical person.

 

Also that's not exactly my own experience either, but it's also not that far off. I've only ever gotten aroused by my partners (literally none of whom have been conventionally hot) when we've been interacting in a sexual manner. I also don't get physically aroused by random hot people, though.

Am I allowed to comment on this since you say it's your experience? Well you are asking so I hope its ok. Not referring to you, but, with this hypothetical person, I would identify them as sexual probably, because they are getting aroused when sexual stuff is happening. When the clothes are off, and kissing happens, or touching, or whatever, he or she is being turned on. (Let me say that I'm not counting....manual stimulation... as "getting aroused when sexual stuff happens". I think, anyone, when... touched a certain way...will get aroused. Some might feel sexual pleasure, some might just get a physical response. But, I am counting attraction as being turned on by everything but manual stimulation).

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gray-a girl
6 minutes ago, Mackenzie Holiday said:

There are definitely a lot of things someone might find attractive about another person besides their looks. It could be their personality, their dependability, their sense of humor, the list goes on. However, if someone just needs an extra set of hands in order to enjoy themselves to the fullest but doesn't find anything sexually appealing about their partner (or anyone else) whatsoever, would their partner really feel desired? I know I wouldn't. And I feel like that could potentially make a relationship just as difficult as one in which they didn't want sex to be a component of the relationship at all.

Thank you. That is my experience. I suppose I could always fake it... but, there is nothing about a person, (looks, personality, sense of humor, etc) that I find attractive. It sounds kind of cold, but when it comes to the sexual part of it, they are a set of hands (metaphorically speaking, when it comes to kink). Emotionally, they are more than that... a valued person, and someone I hope to get close to emotionally. But sexually... there's nothing about them them makes me interested (with the exception of emotional interest...)

I also want to say, thank you everyone for not devolving this conversation into one of invalidation.

I would also like to hear from more demi-sexuals... do you ID as sexual rather than asexual? Do you ID as being aspec on top of that? I heard from two demisexuals so far, just want to know if more feel that way. It would go a long way in explaining why they aren't being invalidated in the same way on AVEN.

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1 hour ago, gray-a girl said:

 

 



I do find it interesting that a couple of demisexuals on here aren't identifying as asexual. But I assume they identify as aspec?

 

Personally, I ID as sexual, not "aspec" or asexual. I dont believe asexuality should be a spectrum, as it is a zero point (asexual). Whereas sexuality is a spectrum and I see myself as higher towards the sexual slider than the asexual slider (say asexual is black and sexual is white and all the in between bits are grey..  I would put it somewhere in a lighter grey closer to sexual than asexual). Like, besides the fact I want no one else sexually in any way, there is nothing else separating me from any other married sexual person. So I'm just more monogamous by nature than other people. 

 

 

1 hour ago, gray-a girl said:


P.s. I got to say... two drawers of sex toys? Wow that's a lot...

 

Heh, my partner and I are into BDSM and collars, gags, etc take up a fair amount of space. 😛

 

 

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everywhere and nowhere
4 hours ago, gray-a girl said:

But, I am counting attraction as being turned on by everything but manual stimulation).

Wait, do I understand it correctly? Why do you specifically exclude manual stimulation?

I remember some of your previous arguments - sorry if you don't like them being brought up - but anyway, there too you seemed strangely tied to the idea that "fingers and toys" don't count as partnered sex "because it's very similar to what a person can do alone". Indeed, I very much disagree about this point, and for several reasons. First, I believe that only participation of a partner in the act is what changes a sexual activity from "autoeroticism or almost that" to "partnered sex", and not the kind of activities two people do. Second - because excluding such stuff is invalidating and condescending to lesbians, it contributes to the idea that two women can't have Real Sex (and therefore there's also nothing to worry about, nothing to treat seriously, it's not even an orientation, just some fun stuff two chickz do). I wrote pretty much the same yesterday, in another topic - someone asking whether wanting to caress a girl's boobs is sexual attraction. I, personally, don't want to have any kind of partnered sex, but I will also keep arguing that we should abandon ideas about "right" and "wrong" ways to have sex. What counts is what the partners enjoy (plus also, of course, other issues such as clear mutual consent and safety), and not what is recognised by the society as "sex" rather than "foreplay", "petting" etc. There is too much very harmful fixation on heterosexual PIV intercourse being the fullest actualisation of sex - and then other sex acts are judged according to the extent to which they are comparable with this model. If there is no penetration of a body part with a body part, it's very often not recognised as "Real Sex", only enjoying this kind of sexual activity and not wanting to "go further" is often perceived as "immature". Why? People should be free to have the kind of partnered intimacy they desire - also if it means something most people consider to be "petting" rather than "sex", also if it means just looking into each other's eyes, also if it means no partnered intimacy.

 

And, in fact, I do have an anti-label approach to some extent - at least in the sense that knowledge of sexual diversity should be widespread enough that people shouldn't even have to label their feelings if they don't want to (or find themselves, at this point in their lives, unable to decide on a label). They should be allowed to figure out what kind of sexual contact they desire - if any - without sociocultural pressure. It really includes so many facets... as I wrote: not pressuring people into doing stuff they are not ready for (or might never desire and/or enjoy) just because PIV and comparable activities are perceived as "fuller" and "more mature". It also means, for example, abandoning double standards, acknowledging that anyone might not want to have sex for whatever reason, instead of allowing only people who already identify as asexual to undertake no sexual activity. It also means, generally, giving queer people (including asexuals) the same authority on their feelings, the same acknowledgement of agency, which is awarded to straight people. See how both gay and asexual young people are often disbelieved, treated as if they were unable to know their orientation unless they "experiment", "try other options" - but these doubts are never applied to straight people. This is all, basically, fighting against heteronormativity and against sociocultural conditions in which some people (such as women, trans people, intersex people, people with a low libido...) are denied autonomy and the right to sexual agency.

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  • 1 year later...
On 6/30/2020 at 4:48 PM, gray-a girl said:

I’ve been invalidated here so many times it isn’t even funny. Because I identify as cupiosexual. I’ve even been invalidated a lot since AVEN put new rules into play, forbidding people from invalidating others and telling them that they’re not asexual or that they’re sexual.

 

Note- if you want to tell me I’m not asexual do not do it. It’s against AVEN rules and I’ve heard it dozens of times before, I’m so sick of it.

 

Despite saying that, I’m pretty sure that some very unwelcoming person on here will go on to tell me I’m really sexual or just a snowflake, since it’s happened so many times before. Generally I have been avoiding AVEN and I will

probably regret, again, posting here.

 

However I have a question that’s really bothering me. My question is, why aren't demisexuals invalidated as much as cupiosexuals? Demisexuals do like sex and I honestly think they’re closer to sexual on the asexual spectrum than I am as a cupiosexual. (Still asexual of course but it just seems that on the spectrum they fall closer to sexual than a cupiosexual would, since we never experience sexual attraction). So why does it seem like they’re not constantly invalidated here but I am?
 

Or am I missing something and they are invalidated in every post they make too?

 

So far my going theory is that there are just many more demisexuals out there. But I just wanted to post this question because I don’t get it, why they are accepted here but I’m not.

 

And again I’m sure someone will invalidate me here, it always happens. I will probably regret posting here again. This has been a horribly unwelcoming, nasty community towards me. Some people are nice but their voices are always drowned out by people telling me what my orientation is.

I gotcha....and you ARE valid as asexual as a cupiosexual. I think it's because people can understand people only feeling sexual attraction after an emotional connection...some people can't see somebody having or wanting sex without attraction. I think I might be cupio.....as of right now I just wanna try it just to see what makes it special....but I am still asexual.its normal to be asexual and still have a libido. I don't get turned on by people but instead it happens out of nowhere.....Ill be playing Minecraft and be randomly turned on.... Libido is not the same as attraction. It's a spectrum and you are valid

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5 hours ago, Neptune14 said:

some people can't see somebody having or wanting sex without attraction.

but how are you defining attraction? On AVEN it's defined as 'the desire for sexual contact with someone else' and when it comes to the difference between asexuality and non-asexuality, the only really quantifiable factor is whether or not you desire partnered sexual intimacy with other people. 

 

If one is, however, defining attraction as 'wanting sex with people based on their appearance' then the truth is it's a myth that all sexual people experience that!!! Many desire and sex for reasons like love, pleasure, fun, etc, but cannot 'look at someone and get aroused'. I am (allo)sexual and I have never been able to get aroused just from looking at someone. I do however desire sexual intimacy under certain specific circumstances (for intimate pleasure mostly) hence why I am not asexual :) 

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5 hours ago, Neptune14 said:

I gotcha....and you ARE valid as asexual as a cupiosexual. I think it's because people can understand people only feeling sexual attraction after an emotional connection...some people can't see somebody having or wanting sex without attraction. I think I might be cupio.....as of right now I just wanna try it just to see what makes it special....but I am still asexual.its normal to be asexual and still have a libido. I don't get turned on by people but instead it happens out of nowhere.....Ill be playing Minecraft and be randomly turned on.... Libido is not the same as attraction. It's a spectrum and you are valid

okay I quickly glanced at some of your other posts and you more seem to be saying you'd be open to trying to sex because you heard it feels good. Many aces feel that way (though sadly they're often disappointed because if you don't innately desire it, it's hard to truly enjoy it). Cupiosexuals often say things like ''I love sex and need it to be happy in my life, I just don't care who I have it with'' and that's why people in the ace community are like 'well... there are many (allo)sexual people like that. they don't all base their desire for sex solely on appearance!!', so hopefully that makes more sense. Wondering if maybe you'd want sex because you heard it feels good is totally different though!!

 

I myself can't actually enjoy the physical feelings of sex at all (I have a pain desire 'down there') but I can still desire it for the intimacy on a theoretical level even if I never have it again, hence why I am not asexual :) The innate desire is still there for me, and it's more than a 'want to try'. It's a genuine deep desire inside me to connect on a sexual level with someone else, even if I can't enjoy the physical sensations. Cupiosexual-identifying people  usually say they still have that 'deep desire' but for 'pleasure, enjoyment, and intimacy' - which is exactly why most non-asexual people desire sex!! haha.

 

But yeah as I said, you are talking about a 'want' because you heard it feels good, which is a different thing! many asexuals feel that way, especially when they're younger and still figuring things out ^_^ Also many aces have a libido, they just don't innately 'connect' that with an active desire to engage in sexual activity with other people  :cake:

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On 6/30/2020 at 11:53 PM, NickyTannock said:

To me, asexuality is a lack of sexual attraction, so cupiosexuals would be a type of asexual.

According to the definition on this website, there are two definitions of asexuality.

 

1. You feel little to no sexual attraction

2. You have little to no desire for partnered sex

 

As long as one of these criteria applies to you, your are considered asexual, at least somewhere on the spectrum depending of the circumstances, therefore cupios are just as valid as demis who are just as valid as aces.

 

On 6/30/2020 at 10:48 PM, gray-a girl said:

I’ve even been invalidated a lot since AVEN put new rules into play, forbidding people from invalidating others and telling them that they’re not asexual or that they’re sexual.

And I am so sorry that happens, what I do and what I think anyone who responds to anything on here is explicitly tell the person who posted that they can't tell them their sexuality and only they can decide for themselves. I really try to be friendly and welcoming and helpful and open on here because I know that the people who don't understand the ace/allo spectrum give us plenty of difficulties already. 

 

You are valid :)

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Hello, I didn't really know how to answer your question like an hour ago... Except I just read a post (in a thread I could really relate with) saying what somone had said was false, because they don't define sexual attraction the same way. I, like the person I could relate with (and you if I understood right), separate sexual attraction and the desire for a sexual relationship into two different things.

 

Warning: explaing what the person said, you might not want to read it, except I'm sure you can guess 😕

Spoiler

This person declared the desire for a sexual relationship makes it attraction 😭

 

I felt really upset and I think this difference of definition could be the reason some people invalidate cupiosexuality... I thankfully only ever read this one comment of this opinion and I'm sorry it happened to you so often.

 

I suppose demis don't have this issue because they don't see themselves as asexuals? 

 

(Now I researched cupiosexuality when I read what you wrote (I already had read the word, but had no actual idea what it meant) and it fits me, which made me think back to that post I "talked" about and why it upset me so much...)

So lots of courage for you from a (probably, I'm still kind of confused about the acumulating labels) fellow cupiosexual!

 

Edit: sooo 1 hour later I realise that quite a lot of people just conveniently forget about the "feeling little to no sexual attraction" (as @fronci explained) part of asexuality when trying to help newcomers who don't know how to define attraction, and just ask if they desire a sexual relationship because they find it easier to know, and don't think about people who might more relate with no "sexual attraction" than "no sexual relationship"... Some people do seem to be quite narrow-minded (as @Frenchace said)...

Edited by Amelya
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The French Unicorn

Discaier : I'm speaking generally here, I'm not in AVEN for enough time to have any person in mind.

 

How I see it : some people are narrow-minded and refuse to believe that different people have different experiences, and don't try to understand when someone has an experience that contradicts their own.

My guess is, for demisexuality, people see it as its own thing anyway. However, when it came to cupiosexuality, "not feeling sexual attraction" is a thing they relate too and because of that they don't desire sex, they can't see how someone could desire sex and yet not feel sexual attraction. And instead of trying to understand, they dismiss the whole thing.

 

In other words, as sexual attraction is a thing that usually leads to a desire for sexual interactions, some people forget that there are other reasons for someone to desire sex.

Edited by Frenchace
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