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Just now, PanFicto. said:

You mean like gender dysphoria and suicidal tendencies as a result of having blood leaking from your body every month? Do they get worse with menopause? 😕

They can.  Perimenopause often doesn’t mean menstruating less and less often until one day it stops altogether; initially, you may menstruate more than once a month, or for weeks at a time.  Ultimately it does all stop, and then you may just have to deal with hot flashes for a long time, but getting there can take quite a while. 

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8 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

They can.  Perimenopause often doesn’t mean menstruating less and less often until one day it stops altogether; initially, you may menstruate more than once a month, or for weeks at a time.  Ultimately it does all stop, and then you may just have to deal with hot flashes for a long time, but getting there can take quite a while. 

Yeah. Hormone imbalances are fun like that... and menopause plays with your hormones. PCOS can put women into a very, very early menopause like state and that can mean a period that lasts like 90 days (my cousin had it so bad she had to have a hysterectomy much younger than her doctors wanted her to). Plus, hot flashes, being cold and hot at the same time, almost constant PMS, nausea. Though, my mom declined the hormone replacement they offered her because she said the symptoms were not as bad as the side effects of hormone replacement drugs. 


Menopause doesn't sound like a lot of fun. Even if you stop bleeding after it. 

 

Though... my periods are also no fun, so, hm. Cause they can already last 30 days+, skip months, cause a lot of pain / nausea and put pressure on my ovarian cysts which first time it happened sent me to the ER thinking something was rupturing in my organs (turns out I just have cysts that grow, pop, the liquid gets absorbed back in and then a new one forms and we get to start all over). So, all around, I just don't like the female reproductive system. :P 

 

 

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everywhere and nowhere
On 6/19/2020 at 11:37 PM, Guest said:

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I don't think at all that @PanFicto. had any intention of hurting you.

 

To be honest, the issue of gynecology is giving me panic attacks... as I already wrote, I would personally rather die than undergo such an examination, and I feel that I would die out of horror anyway. To me it's not just "very unpleasant", it's mortally terrifying. Particularly if I think about children in such a position... I'm an adult, I can refuse to visit a gyno even, in an extreme case, at the price of my life. Nobody can force me to do it. Fortunately, I never had any trouble "down there" except for minor hygiene-based infections (as opposed to sexually transmitted ones, because since I have never had sex, I couldn't have them) and unpleasant periods (no noticeable PMS, regular periods, heavy flow, pain - but that is entirely typical, the vast majority of women need painkillers during their periods), when I was a teenager, I vehemently refused to start going to a gyno and my mother felt that she can't force me - now she never even brushes the topic anymore, but realises that I never "grew out" of my nudity aversion.

Anyway, despite my panic symptoms at the thought, I will write more because it lets me turn fear into rightful anger. So... I too feel it's weird if a, basically, (older-)child patient was expected to be aroused. Sexualisation of this kind of procedures is disgusting enough, it amounts to sexual abuse, and in case of children it's even more appaling - not because molesting adults is somehow more permissible, but because adults are at least more competent in recognising abuse, whereas children often don't have that knowledge* and can be naive enough to let themselves be manipulated into thinking that it's nothing wrong, that "all adults do it", that they should ever tell anyone... But, I would never exclude the possibility of doctors behaving in this way towards a 12-year-old because I have read about some other cases - more precisely, "advances" in the "treatment" of intersex people.

You might have read how obsession over only two genders (and two sexes) being possible and over, supposedly, the horrible harm which would happen to someone who realised that their sex is neither "female" nor "male", led medical professionals to acts now considered absolutely inconsistent with medical ethics - including lying to parents of intersex people, so that no one but doctors would know the truth. Treatment of intersex people is still far from being truly ethical - for example, in a lot of places they are not even offered basic protection against non-life-saving medical procedures being performed against their will; doctors often manipulate parents into thinking that it's necessary and the child has nothing to say, is often at an age when they can't even understand gender issues and therefore couldn't be expected to make a decision... At least now doctors don't lie to patients and their parents anymore. And other "advances" are being made - previously surgeons would often cut a phallus (I treat "phallus" as a term for both penis and clitoris - after all, they originate from the same embryonic tissue, they are variants of the same organ) which was considered too large for a clitoris and too small for a penis into a typically-sized clitoris without regard for sexual function. Now, doctors are more considerate... but the result is subjecting child patients - even younger than Guest - to procedures which can and probably should be considered sexual abuse. Surgery itself is performed in a way which should keep as many nerves as possible intact, and later doctors test whether the operated organ has retained sensitivity. According to reports, they touch it with cotton buds or even an object hidden under the euphemism of "vibrating medical device". This is absolutely sick. As if robbing children of their right to intimacy was not horrible enough, such procedures equal, after all, performing a sexual act on a child. This is sexual abuse in guise of medical necessity.

So, as I wrote, I'm suspicious enough of doctors to not exclude that they could have also treated Guest in an inappropriate way.

 

*Children are even more likely to be naive and helpless towards adults with bad intentions if they are not offered competent sex ed - and here, in Poland, fundamentalists are trying to ban sex ed and are spreading lies that sex ed supposedly equals "sexualisation of children". Recently I have read a book by the writer, activist and investigative journalist Klementyna Suchanow: "This is war. Women, fundamentalists and the new middle ages". And Suchanow voices an interesting suspicion about the reasons for fundamentalists' obsession over sex ed. Fundamentalists are also extremely pronatalistic, they refuse to acknowledge overpopulation and want people to breed (with, sometimes, thinly veiled racist motives). So Suchanow's suspicion is: they don't want people to have a clue about sexuality also because they want to make sure that screw-up pregnancies will continue happening! Since they also want to ban abortion, it would mean ensuring that people (at least those who are unable to rebel and choose celibacy) will breed unwanted children.

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On 6/19/2020 at 11:37 PM, Guest said:

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Wow, I can imagine how having this young, unsure guy trying to 'find his way around' wouldn't instill much confidence. No doubt the senior doctor wanted to use you as a practice subject for the junior doctors in their which is definitely weird and pretty icky considering the circumstances. I read some articles for a health and sociology course last year that talked about how doctors eventually see a person as a body instead of somebody. To the senior doctor you were simply a female presenting with your condition and to the junior doctor you were still a little girl in an awkward position. It's definitely a problem with having to many people in a specialty that doesn't centre around them.

 

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And, basically this. Lately I thought a lot  about how we ... basically don't learn anything about homosexual sex in sex ed (at least I didn't? Anyone?) and how it unnecessarily puts young kids at risk. Like, I'd understand it if they only "passed through" the subject quickly and it was there in the book for whoever had an interest but even that isn't the case.

We covered HIV every year from when I was 12 to when I matriculated but we never, not once, covered homosexual sex in the slightest, neither did we cover anything trans related. The whole existence of the queer community was a side note in the 'be inclusive❤️' chapter of our textbook, but nothing practical. Everyone I know learnt about it online, which is concerning considering the amount of teenagers, straight and otherwise, are sexually active and that all they really know about is wearing a condom.

 

Although I guess I can appreciate that we have sex ed (as part of a bigger subject with stuff about human rights and careers and all that) at all as part of the national syllabus and it's compulsory for everyone to finish school.

 

On 6/19/2020 at 11:55 PM, Serran said:

So, all around, I just don't like the female reproductive system. :P 

The absolute worst. I'm sorry you have to go through all that it sounds like the absolute pits.

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Janus the Fox
23 minutes ago, Cee Fox said:

We covered HIV every year from when I was 12 to when I matriculated but we never, not once, covered homosexual sex in the slightest, neither did we cover anything trans related.

Interesting as even though the HIV/AIDS campaigns of the 80’s and 90’s was on TV, not a thread of education on it at any point in time in school of the 00’s, nor any LGBT studies.  Not until college on the 10’s.

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20 minutes ago, Janus DarkFox said:

Interesting as even though the HIV/AIDS campaigns of the 80’s and 90’s was on TV, not a thread of education on it at any point in time in school of the 00’s, nor any LGBT studies.  Not until college on the 10’s.

Well I do live in a country with one of, if not the highest HIV/AIDS prevalence in the world, so they kind of had to teach it lol. It's funny how they taught about it, but I didn't even know about its origins until I was deep into high school.

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brbdogsonfire
On 6/16/2020 at 12:20 AM, Nowhere Girl said:

As far as I have read - pap smears may become a thing of the past. I have read something about a urine test for detecting abnormalities and this kind of test would indeed be much more accessible and non-invasive. But really, it's horrible that women are taught that they have no right to intimacy, that their bodies are for men to be used, for doctors to be monitored... No. I have a right to personal freedom and for me it necessarily includes no sex ever.

Do men not have doctor's do invasive testing that they are uncomfortable with? I know I sure have had doctors anally probe me to check if I had a medical issue. I was uncomfortable with this and they still did it do you know why? Because it was the best way for them to get the information they needed about what was going on. It had nothing to do with them sexualizing me.

 

The OP has said multiple times their wording was poor when she said they were trying to get the information they needed to ensure everything was ok medically. It's unfortunate that it must happen currently due to testing capabilities. Maybe one day another form of testing will be developed. I saw you claim they had a urine test that could detect issues. What issues does it detect? Are there issues with the test such as expense or is it inaccurate? 

 

It really seems like you just use any explanation of any issue to say men are doing something just to hurt women. You  (Nowhere Girl) are a bigot, and should be called out when you make such ridiculous claims consistently.

 

I'm diabetic I have hours long medical appointments around 6 times a year, and have had them for 20 years. The number of times testing has not been performed on me when I am extremely uncomfortable (such as anal probing) when I mention it is 0. Do you know why they don't really care about my opinion and will do what's needed to get the proper information they need? It's because they are professionals and know what needs to happen even if I am not ok with it.

 

By your arguements that would mean that evil woman doctor who did my anal probing was only doing it because she wanted to sexualize me. I think she did it because it was her job, and she was a professional. You can claim women get sexualized (I agree they do) but OP clarified that was not what was happening here, and you continue acting like that's the case.

 

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A very important basic facet of medical care that a lot of times is bypassed is patient autonomy. No matter how much a health care practitioner may advise you for/against a procedure, no matter how much they may disagree with whatever a person decides on, no health care practitioner has the right to force a patient to do something they don't want to. That should extend to anything the patient would feel uncomfortable with. Yes, as a patient can say to themselves 'yes I know this is uncomfortable but I'll just do it anyway' but the bottom line is that patients shouldn't be forced into anything they really don't want to do, and like Hanas is saying, the onus is on the practitioner to either find another solution or refer them to someone else. Often minors are barely given a chance to consent, and women (and, let's say, people AFAB) are pressured into procedures that are painful and invasive just because women's health is portrayed as being needingly invasive with no other options.

 

I'll say again that a lot of senior doctors get to a point where they don't really see people as people, just cases for them to get through and complaints are dismissed as the usual whining you get from patients.

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FOR ANY YOUNG PEOPLE READING THIS THREAD:

 

I'd rather young people who may be reading this thread not get the idea that a doctor penetrating them solely to arouse them is normal or common medical procedure, as we have kids as young as 13 who are members of this website. Doctors have personal lube with them (in a bottle) during examinations so they can make the penetration as quick and painless as possible for you, and should never penetrate you solely in an attempt to "make your pussy wet".

 

Again I'm emphasising this for the sake of young people who may read this as I'm sure the older women hopefully all understand that's not okay. I feel like it's being glossed over and excuses are being made, but the fact is very young girls who may well need sexual exams in the future are reading this website. Please if you're young and reading this, just know doctors have lube with them in a bottle so will never need to forcefully arouse you/make you wet. 

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brbdogsonfire
4 hours ago, Hanas said:

What I see that she is complaining about and agree with is literally the fact that women are often taught that their bodies, sensations and feelings as they experience it themselves subjectively aren't really theirs/not really right/not rightful/"maybe you're not seeing it clearly" and so on. And this is something that every woman has experienced pretty much in more or less subtle ways too. What I'm saying (and I believe they are, too) is: if the person feels sexually invaded at being probed like that, they are in their right, regardless of whether they are woman or man. Surely such a test would be more expensive I bet as it's a lab test not simply touching. But acknowledging the rights of people to feel uncomfortable about it also means NOT RECOMMENDING this kind of test, instead opting to recommend the other less-invasive kind FIRST even if it's more expensive, etc. It also means trying to lower its costs. Lastly, it means ultimately not denying people the right to determine that they don't want anyone touching their genitalia, whether it's for sexy times or a sexualized notion OR NOT. 

 

Trust me as I *AM* a health professional and have done anal probing too (due to anorexia). No, they don't really give you the right to choose a less invasive method. And THAT ISN'T RIGHT, is what I feel we were trying to say all the while on this topic. We HAVE A RIGHT to feel that we are being sexualized even if it's for a purely medical purpose. Ultimately we have a right to choose that we rather die than have something like that being performed on us. Do you disagree? Take current law and societal beliefs out of the equation for a second - do you disagree with it?

 

The last part sounds to me like just wild conjecture aimed at someone you barely know based on what wasn't the point their post at all. 

I have tried to point out how this person frequently posts with blanket statements about men many times now.

 

She has recently posted how she doesn't fear men she feels anger toward them. I wish she and everyone didn't fear men it is a valid thing to be scared of and it is terrible. I don't believe that justifies the anger that she so often shows towards all men. I would be banned if I said frequent blanket statements against women, or any group. I would be called out by everyone in the forums if I did so, and rightfully so. 

 

Since I believe I would be called out by the community if I made blanket statements about a single group I feel justified to call this poster out for doing the same.

 

As to your response to you mentioning anal probing not being a choice and it should be I fully agree. I don't like issues like this being separated into men's vs women's issues because it's a both groups issue, and we only divide the people that would agree on the issue. I am not sure how it could be handled because I am not in the medical profession, but I would assume a lot of it is medically necessary which always becomes a grey area for stuff.

 

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Janus the Fox

Members do have the option to either remove their own posts and are free to ignore the thread when becoming more passionate to the threads cause.

 

The threads is getting well off topic and I can advise on getting back to the Threads theme.

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everywhere and nowhere
7 minutes ago, brbdogsonfire said:

She has recently posted how she doesn't fear men she feels anger toward them.

I don't recall having written that. I have repeatedly said that I feel anger towards my body. I have also written that I distrust men, yes. But I'm not angry with all men, I may only be angry about things some men do.

And in this case it's not even men against women, although it's probably true that too many doctos of this intimacy-trampling specialisation are men (but to me it's no practical difference, I'm mortally terrified with exposing myself to a women and at least three times mortally terrified of exposing myself to a man). The issue is rather how women are taught that they have no right to intimacy. That horrifying procedures are necessary. That love is about having the territory of your body occupied by someone else and that's something wrong with you if you don't want this kind of love declaration.

And yes, in some respects men have it worse. For example: as an extremely nudity-averse girl I was, at most, perceived as weird. If I was an extremely nudity-averse boy who refused to participate in willy comparison rituals, I could perhaps even get beaten up by other boys.

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Janus the Fox
13 hours ago, Guest said:

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This is how comments are usually deleted due to software constraints.

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brbdogsonfire
Just now, Nowhere Girl said:

I don't recall having written that. I have repeatedly said that I feel anger towards my body. I have also written that I distrust men, yes. But I'm not angry with all men, I may only be angry about things some men do.

And in this case it's not even men against women, although it's probably true that too many doctos of this intimacy-trampling specialisation are men (but to me it's no practical difference, I'm mortally terrified with exposing myself to a women and at least three times mortally terrified of exposing myself to a man). The issue is rather how women are taught that they have no right to intimacy. That horrifying procedures are necessary. That love is about having the territory of your body occupied by someone else and that's something wrong with you if you don't want this kind of love declaration.

And yes, in some respects men have it worse. For example: as an extremely nudity-averse girl I was, at most, perceived as weird. If I was an extremely nudity-averse boy who refused to participate in willy comparison rituals, I could perhaps even get beaten up by other boys.

If this is true I truly am sorry for calling you a bigot. It is not my intention to mislead and I will check where I got what I said from. If you didn't say what I said you did I will admit to it. 

 

 

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Janus the Fox
13 hours ago, Guest said:

.

A member has to and can only request their own posts to be removed if they can’t remove them for any reason.

 

I’m looking into other thread actions as the thread has derived well away from the OP topic. 

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Janus the Fox

The Thread has gone Hot and has gone Off Topic from its theme and has not returned to its topic after asking. I’d think it’s for the best to Lock this as this has also become TMI.

 

Janus DarkFox

Questions about Asexuality, Asexual Musings and Rantings & Open Mic Moderator

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Janus the Fox

I've unlocked this thread on Request of the OP's participants, there has been enough cool-down and as long it keeps on Topic and TMI free (Spoilers recommended) it should stay up to produce productive discussion.

 

Janus DarkFox

Questions about Asexuality, Asexual Musings and Rantings & Open Mic Moderator

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