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Is my therapist being thorough or dismissive?


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(I hope this is in the correct forum.)

 

I've been struggling with this for several days now and I'd like some input from other aces.

 

Some background:

Spoiler

I'm an adult (cis) woman who identifies as queer, more specifically biromantic ace. 

 

I've been suffering from various debilitating symptoms for the better part of the past decade. Aside from some tests suggesting I'm immunocompromised, multiple doctors have been unable to pinpoint a cause for my symptoms. I've been diagnosed with fibromyalgia and CFS, which... basically means they acknowledge something's not right, but they don't know what or why.

 

I'm currently seeing a therapist who believes my symptoms might be amplified by (if not outright caused by) PTSD from a variety of awful things that happened to me as a child. I'm not  sure I 100% agree, but I thought it was worth exploring, so, here we are.

 

I've been seeing this therapist for several months now, and for the most part I've been satisfied with her treatment, but last week she threw a curveball at me: she wants to break down why I identify as asexual.

 

That immediately raised red flags for me. I admit my past trauma has probably affected how I navigate relationships, but my asexuality feels innate. I don't believe my orientation has anything to do with what happened to me in the past. This is also not the first time someone's questioned the legitimacy of my sexual orientation. I explained to her that I was wary of this line of discussion because I felt like she was questioning if I'm actually asexual.

 

Her response was: "We'll see."

 

At my most recent appointment she spent the session trying to poke holes into my ace identity, suggesting I identified as ace because of reasons. She covered everything from hormonal imbalances to childhood abuse to the side effects of my medication. She implied that I'm using asexuality as an excuse to not pursue relationships. Even the fact that I was upset about her questions suggested to her that I had trauma relating to it. The whole thing reeked of "reparative therapy" tactics and I hated it.

 

I spent over an hour going in circles with her on the subject, answering her questions and repeatedly voicing my frustrations with her line of questioning. She insists we cover it because I clearly have issues with identifying as ace because in our first session I... told her I was ace. She insists that because I brought that up without prompting from her that it's an issue that needs to be explored.  I told her I was ace because she's a medical professional and I figured if we were going to discuss my life history it might be a pertinent detail she should be aware of.*

 

*

Spoiler

TBH I also mentioned it because I wanted to gauge her reaction to me being queer. If I was going to spill my life story to this person I wanted to make sure they weren't anti-LGBTQIA.

 

At one point I flat-out asked her if she'd be exploring this line of questioning if I'd told her I was gay, to which she said, "Yes."  I'm still not sure how to feel about that.

 

She wants to continue pushing this issue at my next appointment (and possibly at subsequent appointments). I feel like this is a waste of time and is completely irrelevant to my current issues, but she refuses to drop the subject. I'm disheartened that all of this is coming from someone who, supposedly, has training in sex therapy. I'm starting to think I should find another therapist, but I don't want to just throw in the towel after months of progress. Up until this point I generally trusted her and followed her lead. I don't know if I'm being "difficult" or if my concerns are genuine.

 

TL;DR- My therapists seems intent on denouncing my asexuality. Should I keep going and see where she takes this or should I bail ASAP?

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MaryPenelope

Oh no that's definitely fucked up and sketchy. Considering you already tried to fend her off from it, I'd say you might be best to drop her as a therapist, but you could tell her that this is a dealbreaker for you and see if that changes her tune at all.

(Also I vote you ask her to explain to you why she identifies as straight lol)

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Hmm. 

 

I think exploring why one identifies as something is valid. But, that has to be done purely as a way of understanding you... not to "cure you" of it. And it sounds like she's crossing the line into trying to "cure" and make you not only sexual but heterosexual if she would do the same with a gay person. 

 

My suggestion would be try to find a therapist that works more with the LGBt community. 

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Megmac1987

I agree this does not feel okay.  Is there an option to see someone else?

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everywhere and nowhere
32 minutes ago, NovaAva said:

She implied that I'm using asexuality as an excuse to not pursue relationships.

Why should a person need an excuse for that?! After all, relationships are not obligatory.

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Alejandrogynous

I agree with @Serran, I think it's healthy to explore identity but it sounds like your therapist is crossing the line between guiding you to help you understand yourself better, and telling you how you feel based on her own bias. And isn't doing a very good job of listening to you. It's also troubling that she would do the same thing if you were gay, like homosexuality is a disorder to treat.

 

I would explain to her that she is making you uncomfortable and, unless you specifically bring it up to explore, your asexuality is off the table. And that you are paying her so you have final say in what you discuss in your sessions.

 

If that doesn't work, maybe finding a new therapist is the best option.

 

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NickyTannock

Welcome to AVEN!

 

I'd point them here: https://blogs.iu.edu/kinseyinstitute/2018/04/13/asexuality-sexual-orientation/

And then if they continue to invalidate your sexual orientation, drop them as your Therapist.

 

Incidentally, it is a tradition here to welcome new members by offering cake, and here's my favourite cake,
 

 

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aces&eights

I’m nearing the end of a psychology degree, so I’m still learning but here’s my take. It sounds like she’s a Freudian and trying to take a psychoanalytical approach (big words but bear with me). So those people believe that inner psychological conflict causes physical symptoms. I.e heart disease can be caused by a broken heart or what you said down below

1 hour ago, NovaAva said:

 

I'm currently seeing a therapist who believes my symptoms might be amplified by (if not outright caused by) PTSD from a variety of awful things that happened to me as a child

So being Freudian she would believe that most things are to do with sexual desire (I’m not an expert but I don’t think the theory leaves room for Asexuality). And another thing they beleive is that people repress their desires into their unconscious minds because of various reasons (such as trauma). Only when the person becomes defensive, frustrated and denies things is when the therapist can know they’ve touched on something repressed. So to her the more frustrated you get and deny your allo sexuality, the more it may seem you’ve repressed it.

 

Personally I think Freudian theory is mostly BS. And it’s really quite unscientific. So I would suggest asking her if this is her approach, and then maybe asking her to lay off those ideas of find a therapist who uses more modern scientific approaches.

p.s I’m still learning so I may have got some stuff about the theory wrong. OR maybe the therapist is not taking this approach which is completely likely

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Spoiler

This definitely does'nt feel okay, unless she's wanting you to do exposure therapy(later in treatment and if that's part of her treatment plan, I say try to find someone new.

30 minutes ago, aces&eights said:

I definitely agree with your statement. My psychology professor said his tactics are considered archaic and we barely glossed through him.    

 

Personally I think Freudian theory is mostly BS. And it’s really quite unscientific. So I would suggest asking her if this is her approach, and then maybe asking her to lay off those ideas of find a therapist who uses more modern scientific approaches.

p.s I’m still learning so I may have got some stuff about the theory wrong. OR maybe the therapist is not taking this approach which is completely likely

 

 

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Someone Else

Therapists have probably seen so many cases where someone had no interest in sex due to traumas and illnesses that it's hard for them to not consider the possibility if they don't already know for sure that it isn't the case. 

That being said, you can just say, "no, I don't think that's right.  Move on to another subject. " 
And that's that, you're moving on to another subject.  If the therapist actually is insane enough to say "NO WE WILL NOT MOVE ON" then run, run like hell.  LIterally stand up and walk quietly out the door, you don't even need to explain.  There are plenty of therapists out there to choose from, no need to stick around with that crap.
  I've done the "nah, that's not right, we're moving on" quite a few times with therapists myself.  Just be firm and very clear.  

But if the therapist is freudian, best move to another therapist.  Freudian is almost completely abandoned and is considered out of date and sexist, in favor of much better ideas of which there have been so many since then.  He's famous because he was the first, and that's about it.  It'll be very hard to make a Freudian therapist talk about something other than sex, simply because they think it's the end all be all.  It's a very bad mix for an asexual.  They're the dinosaurs of the therapy world, in the words of one of my past therapists. 

And honestly, I think Freudian therapist are probably incredibly messed up themselves, and have a really, really whacko relationship with their parents, to actually be taking Freud seriously.  

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1 hour ago, Moonman said:

I'm playing AVEN's advocate here but the reason the therapist is discussing this with you is because they do feel it's relevant to your issues and well, they are the trained professional after all. It's not really our place to comment or judge your therapist but maybe it's hard for you because it's supposed to be?

There is a difference in discussing it and trying to treat it though. Therapists are meant to guide you. Meaning, help you explore yourself. Telling you that your orientation is based on something and refusing to listen is not guiding you to figuring yourself out. And won't foster the trust needed in a therapist/ patient relationship 

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Thank you all for your replies (and thank you for the cake, Michael!).

 

2 hours ago, Moonman said:

I'm playing AVEN's advocate here but the reason the therapist is discussing this with you is because they do feel it's relevant to your issues and well, they are the trained professional after all. It's not really our place to comment or judge your therapist but maybe it's hard for you because it's supposed to be?

This is what's holding me back from flat-out walking away from her practice. This isn't the first time I've struggled to discuss a difficult issue with her, and I think those conversations turned out for the better. But this is the first time she's pushed me to address a problem that I don't think exists.

 

1 hour ago, aces&eights said:

I’m nearing the end of a psychology degree, so I’m still learning but here’s my take. It sounds like she’s a Freudian and trying to take a psychoanalytical approach (big words but bear with me). So those people believe that inner psychological conflict causes physical symptoms. I.e heart disease can be caused by a broken heart or what you said down below

[-snip-]

And another thing they beleive is that people repress their desires into their unconscious minds because of various reasons (such as trauma). Only when the person becomes defensive, frustrated and denies things is when the therapist can know they’ve touched on something repressed. So to her the more frustrated you get and deny your allo sexuality, the more it may seem you’ve repressed it.

She's definitely Freudian, then. The entire basis for my therapy is that she thinks my physical symptoms are being caused by subconscious conflicts (incidentally: physical symptoms haven't improved 😒). And that last bit sounds exactly like our dynamic right now. If I showed her that FAQ that MichaelTannock linked above she'd probably take it as me digging in my heels and further hiding behind the "label".

 

I think my plan for the next appointment is to give her an ultimatum to drop my sexual orientation or I move on. Maybe I'll move on anyway down the road, but for now this is the one topic I can't humor her on. Thank you all for your input!

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8 minutes ago, NovaAva said:

Thank you all for your replies (and thank you for the cake, Michael!).

 

This is what's holding me back from flat-out walking away from her practice. This isn't the first time I've struggled to discuss a difficult issue with her, and I think those conversations turned out for the better. But this is the first time she's pushed me to address a problem that I don't think exists.

 

She's definitely Freudian, then. The entire basis for my therapy is that she thinks my physical symptoms are being caused by subconscious conflicts (incidentally: physical symptoms haven't improved 😒). And that last bit sounds exactly like our dynamic right now. If I showed her that FAQ that MichaelTannock linked above she'd probably take it as me digging in my heels and further hiding behind the "label".

 

I think my plan for the next appointment is to give her an ultimatum to drop my sexual orientation or I move on. Maybe I'll move on anyway down the road, but for now this is the one topic I can't humor her on. Thank you all for your input!

Since she's a therapist, you should be able to show her the DSM-V that includes asexuality and tell her it is not a topic you want to try to "fix" since it doesn't cause you distress to be ace. 

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RoseGoesToYale

She sounds really presumptuous and judge-y. The fact that you're frustrated and uncomfortable with how she conducts her questions suggests that she's not a good fit. A few things:

-Ultimately YOU should drive the therapy session, not the therapist, by which I mean a therapist should be there to help you feel better and achieve your goals, not tell you how to live your life.

-Your therapist should respect your goals. If you began therapy to address a specific problem, that problem is what they should be focusing on, not inventing new ones. If a relationship/sex is not something you want out of life, they should not foist that on you, period.

-If you do decide to change therapists, you are under no obligation to tell her why you're stopping sessions. You can stop at any time for any reason. If she presses that you continue or demands an explanation, something's very wrong there.

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Abigail Rose

There is only one person that can define you. I think your concern should be the tone of the questioning from them, more than the content itself. It must never be a hostile environment or we lose any hope of trust. The therapeutic experience is based on a foundation of trust and safety. If you feel that is lost, then you could do with a change for sure. Therapists are people just like us. They sometimes let their opinions rule their approach to helping others just like anyone else can. Perhaps this person wanted to see how determined you are to fight for what you feel. It's wrong to do that but not unheard of. Main thing is you have every right to feel any way you want. Keep doing that.

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On 5/27/2020 at 10:10 AM, NovaAva said:

(I hope this is in the correct forum.)

 

I've been struggling with this for several days now and I'd like some input from other aces.

 

Some background:

  Reveal hidden contents

I'm an adult (cis) woman who identifies as queer, more specifically biromantic ace. 

 

I've been suffering from various debilitating symptoms for the better part of the past decade. Aside from some tests suggesting I'm immunocompromised, multiple doctors have been unable to pinpoint a cause for my symptoms. I've been diagnosed with fibromyalgia and CFS, which... basically means they acknowledge something's not right, but they don't know what or why.

 

I'm currently seeing a therapist who believes my symptoms might be amplified by (if not outright caused by) PTSD from a variety of awful things that happened to me as a child. I'm not  sure I 100% agree, but I thought it was worth exploring, so, here we are.

 

I've been seeing this therapist for several months now, and for the most part I've been satisfied with her treatment, but last week she threw a curveball at me: she wants to break down why I identify as asexual.

 

That immediately raised red flags for me. I admit my past trauma has probably affected how I navigate relationships, but my asexuality feels innate. I don't believe my orientation has anything to do with what happened to me in the past. This is also not the first time someone's questioned the legitimacy of my sexual orientation. I explained to her that I was wary of this line of discussion because I felt like she was questioning if I'm actually asexual.

 

Her response was: "We'll see."

 

At my most recent appointment she spent the session trying to poke holes into my ace identity, suggesting I identified as ace because of reasons. She covered everything from hormonal imbalances to childhood abuse to the side effects of my medication. She implied that I'm using asexuality as an excuse to not pursue relationships. Even the fact that I was upset about her questions suggested to her that I had trauma relating to it. The whole thing reeked of "reparative therapy" tactics and I hated it.

 

I spent over an hour going in circles with her on the subject, answering her questions and repeatedly voicing my frustrations with her line of questioning. She insists we cover it because I clearly have issues with identifying as ace because in our first session I... told her I was ace. She insists that because I brought that up without prompting from her that it's an issue that needs to be explored.  I told her I was ace because she's a medical professional and I figured if we were going to discuss my life history it might be a pertinent detail she should be aware of.*

 

*

  Reveal hidden contents

TBH I also mentioned it because I wanted to gauge her reaction to me being queer. If I was going to spill my life story to this person I wanted to make sure they weren't anti-LGBTQIA.

 

At one point I flat-out asked her if she'd be exploring this line of questioning if I'd told her I was gay, to which she said, "Yes."  I'm still not sure how to feel about that.

 

She wants to continue pushing this issue at my next appointment (and possibly at subsequent appointments). I feel like this is a waste of time and is completely irrelevant to my current issues, but she refuses to drop the subject. I'm disheartened that all of this is coming from someone who, supposedly, has training in sex therapy. I'm starting to think I should find another therapist, but I don't want to just throw in the towel after months of progress. Up until this point I generally trusted her and followed her lead. I don't know if I'm being "difficult" or if my concerns are genuine.

 

TL;DR- My therapists seems intent on denouncing my asexuality. Should I keep going and see where she takes this or should I bail ASAP?

Um, ok, see. As a fellow possibly-biro ace, and therapist, and also someone who's been put in the same situation by her old therapist. She is being pretty dismissive. 

I guess because she is an specialist im sex therapy and its somehow problematic for her business if people turn out to be all aces lol. She seems to be keen on the sex approach. 

I'd say, if you can afford it, jump off boat and try find someone better. At their job, even. 

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On 5/28/2020 at 1:10 AM, NovaAva said:

At one point I flat-out asked her if she'd be exploring this line of questioning if I'd told her I was gay, to which she said, "Yes."  I'm still not sure how to feel about that

did you ask if she'd explore this topic if you identified as straight? Or is that the only acceptable identity to her?? :o 

 

On 5/28/2020 at 1:10 AM, NovaAva said:

supposedly, has training in sex therapy.

That probably means she has rigid pre-conceived notions about how you're meant to think and feel with regards to sexuality. To her, you're going to fit in her box because it's impossible for you not to. I come across this so often with therapists trained in specific fields.

 

On 5/28/2020 at 1:10 AM, NovaAva said:

Should I keep going and see where she takes this or should I bail ASAP?

Voice everything you have said to us here, to her. Tell her it's not up for debate and if she can't drop it, you'll have to find another therapist. If she won't drop it, say bye bye!!

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I understand some therapists can try to find a reason for something they perceive to be a problem and try to fix it. But there's a limit to that concern. I suggest telling her that you're not comfortable continuing along that line of discussion and telling her to drop it or you will drop her. There are other therapists out there who won't immediately question and poke holes into your identities. My therapist asks me a lot of "why" questions, not seeking causes but my understanding of certain things. Because if I'm comfortable with something, there's no reason for him to change it.

 

I think any therapist who seeks to break you down like that is doing a bad job. The DSM-V and many professionals agree that one's opinion on the matter is important. It's not a mental illness if you're not uncomfortable with it, so move on. 

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19 hours ago, Hanas said:

Um, ok, see. As a fellow possibly-biro ace, and therapist, and also someone who's been put in the same situation by her old therapist. She is being pretty dismissive. 

I guess because she is an specialist im sex therapy and its somehow problematic for her business if people turn out to be all aces lol. She seems to be keen on the sex approach. 

I'd say, if you can afford it, jump off boat and try find someone better. At their job, even. 

I thought I should complement what I was saying on a more serious note. 

I say literally jump off boat because one's relation with their therapist IS business; surely there is (health) care involved, but one should never feel pressed to mantain it beyond, say, their means (time, finantial or otherwise,) nor keep if it's harmful. 

Pushing one's boundaries is a goal in therapy ; ruining oneself isn't. 

 

Based on your story and the fact that she is trained in sex therapy, and as someone mentioned it's possibly her approach is very Freudian ... I don't think she is ever going to really try to see you as you're presenting yourself. You know, even a lawyer has to believe their client, of course a therapist is the same. Believing doesn't mean nodding along and accepting everything as truth, but rather, accepting everything you present as your subjective truth and find ways to guide you through it. 

 

If she doesn't regard the fact that you're asexual or, even, asexuality in itself ... Well, her approach could work for some people but certainly not for an (comfortable, secure) asexual person. If it's leading to self-doubt in ways you weren't eager to "fix" (or barely noticed) and not addressing your actual issues, that's pushing a script, not really therapy. 

 

So, what a good professional would do is acknowledge that they can't handle the task at hand, that it doesn't make them any less of a pro just like you can't expect any plumber to fix the electricity in your home, and humbly recommend a fellow therapist who is better at handling these kinds of issues. Because each therapist has a certain specialty, and there are many different approaches really. 

 

Really not trying to be mean here, just I've seen many of the kind and the way they push an agenda is really fruitless and, honestly, stuck-up. Worse, in my experience it makes of you an interesting lab rat instead of well, a person who is possibly hurt at their wrongdoings... I was about to vent but Psychology rants aside. What I meant to say is that it can be extremely harmful to be assisted by someone who has no idea what they're doing. In any field, really. 

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