Afterlife Importance

[GingerRose]

Why do humans feel the need for an afterlife? Why do they need to be happy in the end? Is this their form of immortality, like living forever but not truly living?

[ôÿē èîęēú ïė ēôēįîûôø]

I've had an inner realization and a feeling of a life beyond this one for a long time. To be able to channel my truest essence, it's mandatory that I believe in and feel a force beyond space and time. I think that I'd feel a deep dark void in me if I couldn't connect to the essence outside of time, space, and duality.

[Just a Quail]

I guess humans have existential dread and want to justify their existence, and their actions during said existence. It's interesting though how this notion is accepted differently between different people. Some find it more fulfilling believing in an afterlife, and others (like me personally), find it suffocating. I feel that life is even more beautiful and valuable without an afterlife. It makes it more precious and worth living, for me anyway.

[NorthCircleTraveller]

I would say sense of belonging. Everyone wants to belong and for their actions to have consequences. Nobody wants to be left out and be meaningless.

When a person dies everything is erased, all of the work they have been doing and connections they have been building.

For some a thought that they will be remembered by the living is comforting, some feel like it's not enough.

Humans are trying to be good inside, so they want to write out wrongs and reach a happy ending, which might not be possible after they die.

If there's afterlife however, there's still something possible to be done, or it's just a promise of the sweetest compensation for all of the undesired aspects of life a person had to bear. (This statement reflects that people believe they belong in the good place, and people they dislike - in the bad place.)

[Gifted With Singleness]

36 minutes ago, GingerRose said:

Is this their form of immortality, like living forever but not truly living?

I'm not sure where you get this idea that living forever means you're not truly living. Would you mind elaborating on this?

 

The best thing I can think of is the idea that you would just age forever in heaven. But that doesn't make any sense, since aging inherently leads to death. If you're immortal, you don't age, by definition.

 

I also reject the idea that death gives life meaning, and this video pretty much echoes my reasoning as to why:

 

 

[Bio 7]

20 minutes ago, GiftedWithSingleness said:

I'm not sure where you get this idea that living forever means you're not truly living. Would you mind elaborating on this?

 

The best thing I can think of is the idea that you would just age forever in heaven. But that doesn't make any sense, since aging inherently leads to death. If you're immortal, you don't age, by definition.

 

I also reject the idea that death gives life meaning, and this video pretty much echoes my reasoning as to why:

 

 

Getting old and withering isn’t what anyone wants but living forever might sound nice to people initially but what would they do for 5 thousand years?

 

If you have in infinite quantity then it becomes less precious.

 

”Death is what gives life meaning. To know your days are numbered. Your time is short.” -Ancient One

 

If you knew you would die then you try to make use of your time whether it be centuries or decades. If you might live thousands of years or longer then a single year or decade loses significance.

 

I can think of a moment in ME2 where an Asari says you can “stick it out” with a human relationship and wait for them to die because they live for a thousand years so a few decades means little.

[Homer]

I think it's a combination of a fear of the unknown and the inability to comprehend eternity. Personally I don't believe in afterlives or some such and it's one of the things I really, really hope I'm not wrong about.

[Gifted With Singleness]

6 hours ago, Bio 7 said:

Getting old and withering isn’t what anyone wants but living forever might sound nice to people initially but what would they do for 5 thousand years?

Life has a funny way of creating new opportunities for things to do. I mean, just think about all the innovation and technology that didn't exist 5000 years ago. And that's with a society of dying people filled with a rich history of assholery. That sort of misery wouldn't exist in an afterlife. What would I do 5000 years from now? I have no idea. But that doesn't mean there won't be anything to do, and I also don't need to know what I'll do in 5000 years to know what I'll do today. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

 

6 hours ago, Bio 7 said:

If you have in infinite quantity then it becomes less precious

That reasoning might make sense for material possessions, but life is different. Life isn't a thing in a box that you can buy in a store. Life is the very essence of being. Without life, I can't do anything. The thing about infinite possessions is that I don't have the time to enjoy them all, so I can't really get any value out of them. But if I get to live forever, that reasoning just doesn't apply anymore. There will always be more time to enjoy things, and there will always be more things to enjoy.

[Rhyn Corinn]

Because without an afterlife, life is simply a distraction from death. And in my personal opinion, that sounds like a fairly shitty life.

[GingerRose]

11 hours ago, GiftedWithSingleness said:

means you're not truly living.

I mean how the afterlife is like immortality, but you aren't alive. Immortality is what people find joy in because it means their happiness and strive to survive will never end. Just like with afterlife, it's the idea that all this doesn't have to end.

[GingerRose]

1 hour ago, United Pizza 149 said:

Because without an afterlife, life is simply a distraction from death. And in my personal opinion, that sounds like a fairly shitty life.

Would death not be a distraction from life? Do people not think of all the time how what they do in life will affect their time in death or in afterlife?

[Rhyn Corinn]

20 minutes ago, GingerRose said:

Would death not be a distraction from life? Do people not think of all the time how what they do in life will affect their time in death or in afterlife?

No, it isn't a 'distraction'. It's a motivation to be a decent person, which is something so many people in this world fail to do. (And just to be clear, I'm not implying that the belief in an afterlife is the only motivator to be a better person, nor that the motivation is the reason I believe in one.)

[Gifted With Singleness]

2 hours ago, GingerRose said:

I mean how the afterlife is like immortality, but you aren't alive.

How can you live forever if you aren't alive? I don't understand.

 

The definition of afterlife is life after death. Meaning that, after this earthly life is over, you continue to live in some way. Maybe your spirit lives on in its own plane of existence, or maybe you experience a bodily resurrection of sorts, where this new body isn't prone to the destruction and decay we know all too well. Or maybe it's something else entirely. But in order for an afterlife to be an afterlife, you have to be alive. That's inherent in the definition.

[Zagadka]

A lot of people can't imagine the end. It can be hard to imagine nothingness after a lifetime of conscious experience. Plus, there is the element of wanting to believe that there is something more, or some divine judgement that will reward you.

[GingerRose]

22 minutes ago, GiftedWithSingleness said:

I don't understand.

Okay, I am using immortality as a concept rather than the actual meaning. Like the concept of immortality is that it brings happiness. It means things that someone loves in life like friends and family don't have to come to an end. I am saying that afterlife is a similar concept because it also means the person will be happy (hopefully in paradise) and that things in life that someone loves like friends and family don't have to come to an end, that you can see them in paradise with you.

[Gifted With Singleness]

@GingerRose Okay. It just looked like you were saying that, if you believe in an afterlife, then you believe that you'll just be a corpse in heaven or something. Or that people are only pretending to believe in an afterlife.

[GingerRose]

36 minutes ago, GiftedWithSingleness said:

@GingerRose Okay. It just looked like you were saying that, if you believe in an afterlife, then you believe that you'll just be a corpse in heaven or something. Or that people are only pretending to believe in an afterlife.

nah

words are hard

[SithLord]

Some people are afraid. They're comforted by the idea of death not being the end because they can't understand the idea of dying and no longer being here. So they create an afterlife where death is just one step of a continuous existance where they retain consciousness and their sense of self.

 

Others seek a larger meaning in life. Like we need to be good people to get that reward offered by the gods, and if we don't fulfill that meaning then we're punished. Because rewards and punishments are the simplest things to fall back on when thinking of why you should do something. 

[Bio 7]

On 5/21/2020 at 5:17 PM, United Pizza 149 said:

Because without an afterlife, life is simply a distraction from death. And in my personal opinion, that sounds like a fairly shitty life.

Life in a nutshell, shitty.

[Lord Jade Cross]

On 5/21/2020 at 6:00 AM, Homer said:

I think it's a combination of a fear of the unknown and the inability to comprehend eternity. Personally I don't believe in afterlives or some such and it's one of the things I really, really hope I'm not wrong about.

Thing is, there is no such thing as "eternity" Humans have constructed this idea by hyperbolizing the sensation of "feeling good" much like how for instance someone hooked on a drug that gives them a massive rush will continuously seek out said rush because every they get it, it somehow proves less and less so they take ever increasing amounts of dosages to get back to the proverbial state of perfection.

 

[Homer]

1 hour ago, Jade Cross said:

Thing is, there is no such thing as "eternity" Humans have constructed this idea by hyperbolizing the sensation of "feeling good" much like how for instance someone hooked on a drug that gives them a massive rush will continuously seek out said rush because every they get it, it somehow proves less and less so they take ever increasing amounts of dosages to get back to the proverbial state of perfection.

I have no idea how to connect these dots.

 

Once I'm dead, I'll be dead for the rest of time.

[Lord Jade Cross]

2 hours ago, Moonman said:

Off-topic, but if you're not aware of it already, I recommend reading about the Rat Park study that was conducted in the late 1970's and early 1980's.

I'm familiar with these experiments

Quote

 

As for the afterlife, isn't the idea that good deeds land you in heaven after you die and evil deeds land you in hell? I don't care what's right or wrong or what's true or false, we could all be a bit nicer to one another no matter the pretence.

Depending on which religion/ideology you follow, this is true. However what's right and wrong are fundamentally ambiguous concepts that each ideals manipulates to their particular interests. In reality, there is nothing "good" or "evil" because there is no good or evil in the world, there's just things that happen.

 

Death for instance is largely categorized as evil, as that horrible disease that claims people and must be fought tooth and claw always and forever. But can you stop death? Is death thinking "Hmm be nice to kill a couple of people today". Or does death merely occur as any other incident in this world?

 

[Gifted With Singleness]

5 hours ago, Moonman said:

As for the afterlife, isn't the idea that good deeds land you in heaven after you die and evil deeds land you in hell?

That's one view. Religions differ. Any notion of life after death technically qualifies as an afterlife. This would include the concept of reincarnation, but a lot of people like to categorize that differently.

 

Not even all heaven/hell religions believe in what you wrote. For example, mainstream Christianity (which, oddly enough, is very widely misunderstood even by self-professing Christians) teaches that eternal life is not earned but rather a gift from God to be accepted by faith. Works still matter in the Christian life, and different denominations will disagree as to the precise role works play, but the core of Christianity is that our sins are forgiven and we're saved by God's mercy and grace.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, GiftedWithSingleness said:

mainstream Christianity (which, oddly enough, is very widely misunderstood even by self-professing Christians) teaches that eternal life is not earned but rather a gift from God to be accepted by faith. Works still matter in the Christian life, and different denominations will disagree as to the precise role works play, but the core of Christianity is that our sins are forgiven and we're saved by God's mercy and grace.

That pretty much sums it up for me. Plus, in the extremely unlikely event I ever found someone I like who actually likes me back, I would have to turn her down if she were a hardcore non-believer. I don't always put God first, far from it in fact, but if I didn't do so with something that important I know I would be courting disaster. Actually if I have to count on random chance at all I will consider myself fucked in that regard; after this long of nothing happening/being deliberately misled it's divine providence or nothing.

[Balance]

When I was younger, I thought death meant there was nothing after death. Pretty much like: you passed out, put under anesthesia. As a middle age adult raised in a Catholic environment, I started getting into so called Christian concepts of afterlife and was surprised to hear that those people don't think it's just death. Like they came up with some afterlife story (to me). I don't know if it's a story or really what happens but it's also crossed my mind that "afterlife" means first you die, then you live. So this is Dead World, and when you die, you really enter a Living World. But obviously I don't know.

 

As for why many people believe in an typical afterlife, I'm guessing because of movies, tv shows, or money makers. If you were never taught that stuff, like I wasn't, it really does seem like a story. So, I don't mean offense to those who do believe, this is just my experience of pretty much guessing at what it's like for believers.

[Lord Jade Cross]

1 hour ago, Moonman said:

That's not true at all. The holocaust was definitely a very evil atrocity and I'd be worried and concerned for my own personal safety if somebody tried to convince me it was in any way neutral or 'just something that happened'. 

 

On your latter point, it's perfectly rational to mourn death so I am not sure what point you're trying to make there.

What if you didn't mourn death, what if you celebrated it?

[Lord Jade Cross]

3 hours ago, Moonman said:

What do you mean?

Make this comparison. When a baby is born, it's usually cause for celebration right? You get the choosing of the name, preparing the room, friends and family congratulating you and all around it's seen and promoted as a positive event. You have entire store isles full of baby necessities for sale.

 

Now when someone dies, it's usually all the opposite. People cry, they despair, friends and family might come along to try and offer support. They dress in black, they quote scriptures (at least in the more predominantly religious groups), and generally refer to the incident as the fight the person lost to. You also don't have caskets or cremating furnaces for sale at your local stores.

 

Hasn't it ever occurred to anyone for even just a moment why these things are regarded as such? How come a baby being born isn't generally popularized as a terrible event to happen? Why does noone freak out collectively that another human that needs resources, looking after, education, etc, will be born into this already chaotic, dysfunctional and dying world? 

 

In the same sense, how come when someone dies, noone throws a party? Why don't people come to the funeral in colorful clothing and drink and dance and laugh and celebrate that another soul is no longer bound to suffer living in this world? 

 

 

[Gifted With Singleness]

1 hour ago, Jade Cross said:

Hasn't it ever occurred to anyone for even just a moment why these things are regarded as such? How come a baby being born isn't generally popularized as a terrible event to happen? Why does noone freak out collectively that another human that needs resources, looking after, education, etc, will be born into this already chaotic, dysfunctional and dying world? 

 

In the same sense, how come when someone dies, noone throws a party? Why don't people come to the funeral in colorful clothing and drink and dance and laugh and celebrate that another soul is no longer bound to suffer living in this world? 

What kind of backwards mindset is this? By that logic, hospitals are the greatest moral evil, and genocide is the greatest moral good.

 

I don't know about you, but I'm quite glad to be alive. If people hated my very existence and celebrated my death, that can only mean that they hate me. They would be monsters.

[Lord Jade Cross]

6 hours ago, GiftedWithSingleness said:

What kind of backwards mindset is this? By that logic, hospitals are the greatest moral evil, and genocide is the greatest moral good.

 

I don't know about you, but I'm quite glad to be alive. If people hated my very existence and celebrated my death, that can only mean that they hate me. They would be monsters.

Out of curiosity, if I told you that you could be made eternal, that you would live forever, would you choose that?

[Gifted With Singleness]

3 hours ago, Jade Cross said:

Out of curiosity, if I told you that you could be made eternal, that you would live forever, would you choose that?

Yes, I would. And in the context of an afterlife, there wouldn't be any of the dysfunctional chaos that we've gotten used to.

 

The problem with living in a dysfunctional world is not that you're living; it's the dysfunction itself. Blaming life is barking up the wrong tree.