Some aces have had sex. Why does the first thought have to be about justifying that?

[Snao Cone]

I don't tune into a lot of ace dialogue on social media platforms because I'm pretty sure it would destroy my soul. I'm sure it's enjoyable for many, but what I do see, mostly on Twitter and some Tumblr screenshots, makes me want to sob when it comes to the arguments being made. 

 

A common statement is something like "Just because a person's not a virgin doesn't mean they can't be asexual." I absolutely agree on that! That applies to me, after all. Then someone might add "Asexuals can be sexually active." Yes, that is also true!

 

But, since these are in general social media environments and these things might be seen by less familiar folks without exposure to vast resources like AVEN, someone might ask "Why would an asexual person be sexually active?" 

 

UNFORTUNATELY what I see most often in response to this is people taking wide leaps of logic to say "Sexual attraction isn't the same as sexual desire, so asexual people can get lustful and want sex without experiencing attraction." That is just going to confuse people further!! Let's be honest, it's one of the LEAST likely reasons an asexual person is going to be having sex. Far more likely - and FAR MORE HELPFUL ANSWERS - would be things like "to satisfy their partner" or "because they assume its expected of them" or something like that. Those are the realities that I know many asexual people regularly face. Why aren't these the answers people are giving? It would avoid so much feet in mouths if real answers were given, instead of logical contortionism. 🙄

[Guest]

I wish my sex education taught me about this (and was just better. period), but unfortunately I give in to a lot of misguided information. I understand better now that an asexual person will have partnered sex for external reasons only. Not because they desire it, not because of sexual attraction; none of that is in our nature. It's not internal. It's all external. I've also heard countless stories of people who had previously had sex but now identify as asexual. It's really common! Also I think a lot of people fail to realize the amount of pressure that society puts on having sex - that even asexual people might give in to it because it is what's expected of them. Asexual people may have sex because they love their partner so much.

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, Snao Cone (me) said:

I don't tune into a lot of ace dialogue on social media platforms because I'm pretty sure it would destroy my soul. I'm sure it's enjoyable for many, but what I do see, mostly on Twitter and some Tumblr screenshots, makes me want to sob when it comes to the arguments being made. 

 

A common statement is something like "Just because a person's not a virgin doesn't mean they can't be asexual." I absolutely agree on that! That applies to me, after all. Then someone might add "Asexuals can be sexually active." Yes, that is also true!

 

But, since these are in general social media environments and these things might be seen by less familiar folks without exposure to vast resources like AVEN, someone might ask "Why would an asexual person be sexually active?" 

 

UNFORTUNATELY what I see most often in response to this is people taking wide leaps of logic to say "Sexual attraction isn't the same as sexual desire, so asexual people can get lustful and want sex without experiencing attraction." That is just going to confuse people further!! Let's be honest, it's one of the LEAST likely reasons an asexual person is going to be having sex. Far more likely - and FAR MORE HELPFUL ANSWERS - would be things like "to satisfy their partner" or "because they assume its expected of them" or something like that. Those are the realities that I know many asexual people regularly face. Why aren't these the answers people are giving? It would avoid so much feet in mouths if real answers were given, instead of logical contortionism. 🙄

One word: Tumblr.

 

 

[Philip027]

Quote

Why aren't these the answers people are giving?

Because they're boring answers.

 

It's way more amusing / special-snowflakey / controversial (to them) to gloat about being "asexual sluts" instead, or whatever the terminology they're using nowadays is (that's not my own term; that's specifically how I've seen one of these people describe themselves in an article)

[AceMissBehaving]

I think part of it is because the people answering aren’t the people living the most common scenario.

 

I’m rather outspoken about my asexuality, but still feel guilty, like I’m shit talking my partner if I start talking publicly, and honestly about my reality regarding sex as an asexual person. 
 

The result seems to be that instead of older aces with a bunch of relationship experience talking about it, we have those with little to no experience talking about some utopian vision that doesn’t match the lived experience of those actually walking the walk.

 

I genuinely wish there was less sugar coating and skimming when articles talk about asexuals and sex. It always sounds like it’s the same as sex for sexual people and it’s not.
 

I think that’s in part because the above point about potentially shaming partners, and also because I think the reality would be hard to stomach for a largely sexual audience, so magazines gloss over the uncomfortable truths, for something easier to sell. At the end of the day their focus is usually on selling a magazine, not so much furthering a true understanding of asexuality, and the downsides that can come with it.

 

Like seriously, how many articles actually talk about the difficult parts of asexuality?

[Still]

Aces who have had sex: "You're not really asexual then."

Aces who haven't had sex: "How can you know you're asexual if you haven't had sex?"

[HikaruBG]

Spoiler

 

[Snao Cone]

6 hours ago, Not Pan Ficto. said:

One word: Tumblr.

This is the shortest Ficto post of all time.

[Janus the Fox]

Honesty, maybe shame?  A person may feel they’ve done something bad or wronged themselves or AVEN and justify in detail why they had sex and actually wanted it in a long explanation in why they didn’t.

 

Donno I’ve seen some stories over my 9 years here.  Myself personally I just wanted to know, I did nothing, had no want or desire for it.  Then a relationship came along, took the opportunity to settle curiosity and that was that.  I’m much more in the know I’m Asexual now than in the past.

 

A thread like this is certainly going to go hot here, so it’s a thread to keep an eye on, just a reminder that care must be taken in responses.

[Snao Cone]

45 minutes ago, Janus DarkFox said:

Myself personally I just wanted to know, I did nothing, had no want or desire for it.  Then a relationship came along, took the opportunity to settle curiosity and that was that.  I’m much more in the know I’m Asexual now than in the past.

I think this is a common reason some asexual people have had sex at some point in their lives (including myself) and it's a reasonable answer to give when people ask. It's not quite applicable to cases where an asexual person has an ongoing active sex life, and I think that's where more of these questions come from. 

 

When I was the Resource and Education Director, I tried to emphasize the compromise element (in the FAQ revamp and Attitudes Towards Sex page), so I know this information is out there. Maybe I'm just being too lazy and not stepping in to these conversations. 

[Alejandrogynous]

This is why I also avoid asexual related conversations outside of AVEN, I usually end up wanting to rip my hair out. And if I do try to say something, I usually end up arguing with everyone else who got offended, lol. So I just don't bother.

 

But I think part of it is that the people who usually frequent those discourses are the sort of people who 1) want attention so they give the most outrageous answers, or 2) are new to asexuality themselves so they have this well-intentioned motivation to educate others about it but haven't actually been in the community long enough to respond these questions properly. They're well meaning but the reality is that they're just spouting the same answers they saw on the last asexuality-related social media discourse, so it just perpetuates.

 

And because they think essays about attraction vs desire and orientation vs action makes them sound smart and like they're really "educating" people while, "to compromise in relationships" is boring.

[HikaruBG]

13 hours ago, Snao Cone (me) said:

But, since these are in general social media environments and these things might be seen by less familiar folks without exposure to vast resources like AVEN, someone might ask "Why would an asexual person be sexually active?" 

3 hours ago, Janus DarkFox said:

Honesty, maybe shame?  A person may feel they’ve done something bad or wronged themselves or AVEN and justify in detail why they had sex and actually wanted it in a long explanation in why they didn’t.

Nah, I don't think so. I have seen what these people (I'm talking mainly for Reddit and Twitter here, although I suspect these attitudes are true for other social medias as well, like Facebook) really think about AVEN and I needless to say, their opinions range from hate-boner and dislike to outright not giving shit about it, even tho AVEN has the most resources out there when it comes down to Asexuality.
To me, it really seem like these people simply doesn't care for actually representing asexuality accurately, they just care for catering for their own agendas. So, they simply just decided to create their own definitions for it across multiple web-sites, so that they can really overwhelm the AVEN's one because the AVEN ones are stricter.

I've encounter only one person (on Youtube.... which isn't helpful at all because the Youtube's comment section tends to be very anonymous in nature) told me to go look on AVEN for resources, which is kind of ironic because I already were using them in that discussion.

[cato]

To be honest, I'm kind of relieved to see this nuance here.

 

I feel like identity politics, for lack of a better term, ends up always being dominated by particularly loud voices on social media platforms in a way that makes me feel incredibly alienated.  They claim to (often indignantly) speak on behalf of everyone in that identity group, when it doesn't reflect my experience at all.  So...  then I feel even more marginalized.

 

In the end, I think justification is often times driven by people's underlying desires to be "normal".   "I'm different in X way, but I'm not completely other because I still feel Y and Z!"  Some of it's to fight against unfair stereotypes, but I think a lot of it is to moor yourself to a socially acceptable sense of normal.  Very few people actually want to feel abnormal.

[Philip027]

Quote

I think often times it is driven by people's underlying desires to be "normal".

Replace "often times" with "almost always", but yeah.

 

I never felt normal nor any particular desire to be regarded as normal, so it's been a pretty foreign concept to me.

[Guest]

On 5/6/2020 at 1:22 AM, Snao Cone (me) said:

I don't tune into a lot of ace dialogue on social media platforms because I'm pretty sure it would destroy my soul. I'm sure it's enjoyable for many, but what I do see, mostly on Twitter and some Tumblr screenshots, makes me want to sob when it comes to the arguments being made. 

 

A common statement is something like "Just because a person's not a virgin doesn't mean they can't be asexual." I absolutely agree on that! That applies to me, after all. Then someone might add "Asexuals can be sexually active." Yes, that is also true!

 

But, since these are in general social media environments and these things might be seen by less familiar folks without exposure to vast resources like AVEN, someone might ask "Why would an asexual person be sexually active?" 

 

UNFORTUNATELY what I see most often in response to this is people taking wide leaps of logic to say "Sexual attraction isn't the same as sexual desire, so asexual people can get lustful and want sex without experiencing attraction." That is just going to confuse people further!! Let's be honest, it's one of the LEAST likely reasons an asexual person is going to be having sex. Far more likely - and FAR MORE HELPFUL ANSWERS - would be things like "to satisfy their partner" or "because they assume its expected of them" or something like that. Those are the realities that I know many asexual people regularly face. Why aren't these the answers people are giving? It would avoid so much feet in mouths if real answers were given, instead of logical contortionism. 🙄

"I've never had sex and I am asexual." "Oh please! How'd you know?!"

"I've had sex and I am asexual." "Come on! Why would you have sex, then?!"

 

So, basically, some people who aren't asexual can't accept that asexual people actually exist. But, well, some people believe in flat Earth and desinfectant vaccines.

 

Edit: lol, I just realized someone else answered the same thing. But I guess it's a common feeling? Because, I mean, it really sucks. And what's worse, if you keep quiet about sexual identity at ALL, people will be questioning: if there's someone sexually interested in you, WHY aren't you corresponding?! Do you swing the other way (whatever the other way is)?! And it just gets harder to justify. Thankfully, nowadays I can find it all fun and laugh at it, but yeah... Sad.

[Janus the Fox]

4 hours ago, Philip027 said:

I never felt normal nor any particular desire to be regarded as normal, so it's been a pretty foreign concept to me.

Normality is a rather foreign concept to me to begin with.  This thing is like 'who's defining that, what higher power even defines that anyway'.

[Larkaloke]

Yeah, this is why I generally avoid ace groups on social media (I am once again relieved that I haven't looked at my Tumblr in years, after determining that it really wasn't as great an art marketing tool as people were cracking it up to be). I find there's a weirdly large amount of emphasis on "aces can have sex!" and I find it alienating and counterproductive. Because yeah, that's true, technically... but it's usually not useful and it leads to misunderstandings more often than not.

 

I think a few things are going on here. At this point a lot of people have been poorly informed but assume they haven't been, so they go on repeating what they've heard - and this is true for all sorts of things on social media! - without first making sure that what they heard to begin with was actually correct. Then there are people who I think are trying really hard to make it sound to sexual people that asexual people are totally not that different after all, but are kind of forgetting that that's not the case or the definition would be pointless. And then there are the people who are purposefully being controversial because they think it's clever (or they enjoy trolling). It's not always easy to tell which are which, so I try to just avoid the whole mess.

[Snao Cone]

4 hours ago, Hanas said:

"I've never had sex and I am asexual." "Oh please! How'd you know?!"

"I've had sex and I am asexual." "Come on! Why would you have sex, then?!"

 

So, basically, some people who aren't asexual can't accept that asexual people actually exist. But, well, some people believe in flat Earth and desinfectant vaccines.

 

Edit: lol, I just realized someone else answered the same thing. But I guess it's a common feeling? Because, I mean, it really sucks. And what's worse, if you keep quiet about sexual identity at ALL, people will be questioning: if there's someone sexually interested in you, WHY aren't you corresponding?! Do you swing the other way (whatever the other way is)?! And it just gets harder to justify. Thankfully, nowadays I can find it all fun and laugh at it, but yeah... Sad.

Yeah, I've come across this kind of ignorance myself before. I didn't realize I'm asexual until my 30s, after a number of failed attempts at enjoying sex based on what I assumed I would like, so if people ask why I had sex if I'm asexual, the answer is pretty much built into it. I do have a libido, which certainly builds into the many years of confusion, but my pursuit of sex in those years, as few and far between as attempts at it were, came from manufactured experiences based on narratives developed in my very storytelling-oriented mind. I have a much better answer than "asexual people can still have a sex drive" because a) my libido isn't a drive for sex, it's a drive for sexual stimulation, and I think it's crucial to reword the answers we give for that reason; and b) the reasons I had sex really have nothing to do with my libido aside from confusion and a lack of awareness/education about asexuality available to me as I was discovering myself.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Snao Cone (me) said:

Yeah, I've come across this kind of ignorance myself before. I didn't realize I'm asexual until my 30s, after a number of failed attempts at enjoying sex based on what I assumed I would like, so if people ask why I had sex if I'm asexual, the answer is pretty much built into it. I do have a libido, which certainly builds into the many years of confusion, but my pursuit of sex in those years, as few and far between as attempts at it were, came from manufactured experiences based on narratives developed in my very storytelling-oriented mind. I have a much better answer than "asexual people can still have a sex drive" because a) my libido isn't a drive for sex, it's a drive for sexual stimulation, and I think it's crucial to reword the answers we give for that reason; and b) the reasons I had sex really have nothing to do with my libido aside from confusion and a lack of awareness/education about asexuality available to me as I was discovering myself.

I think this is a great point. In fact, I'm not really... libido-less (is that even a word?) myself and maybe this is why I still "uhmmmmmm..." when asked about my sexual orientation even if it's someone I trust deeply in their understanding ... well, that and the situation mentioned above of course. I keep thinking well maybe I haven't *met* the *one*! I do have a crush on That Famous Celeb (even though I wouldn't want their dick touching me in any way)! and it is really harmful, because I end up hurting myself and others by going with that. Maybe if being asexual was fully presented as an option from the beginning, I would simply have accepted the fact and moved on earlier. Or at least considered it more seriously, or tried to give that answer instead of sorry-the-problem-isn't-you-it's-me.

[Gifted With Singleness]

I realize I'm joining this thread a bit late, but something occurred to me. A lot of people seem to have a very strong urge to debunk stereotypes, and this urge is so strong that, if left unchecked, they end up overcorrecting.

 

Stereotypes exist for a reason. Usually a stereotype will be true for the majority of the relevant population, but there are still exceptions. And if you're an exception to a stereotype, you're probably going to be offended by the stereotype, and you're going to want to combat it.

 

The easiest way to combat a stereotype is to talk about the exceptions to the stereotype. But if you overdo it (and it's very easy to overdo it), the exception becomes the stereotype. And that's even worse, since the new stereotype only applies to a minority of the relevant population.

 

As an analogy, it's a common stereotype that women are less interested in sex than men. This stereotype is generally true, but there are exceptions. If you have a vested interest in combating this stereotype, you might shout "Not All Women" and constantly talk about highly sexual women. But if you do this too much, people are going to start thinking that all women are highly sexual, and the more sexually reserved women are going to start feeling alienated, even though they're the majority.

 

I think the same thing is happening with asexuality. If you've never heard of asexuality, you might think of asexuals as being celibate. This stereotype is generally true, but there are exceptions. And if you have a vested interest in combating this stereotype, you're naturally going to constantly talk about asexuals who have sex. But if you do this too much, people are going to start thinking that all asexuals have sex, and that stereotype is even worse. It ends up minimizing the very real struggles a lot of asexuals face.

 

"Asexuals don't really want to have sex, so it makes sense that, generally speaking, asexuals are naturally inclined to celibacy."

"NOT ALL ASEXUALS ARE CELIBATE! SOME ASEXUALS ACTUALLY HAVE SEX!"

"Yes, some asexuals have sex. But most don't, and even the ones who do have sex generally stop having sex after realizing they're asexual."

"NOT ALL ASEXUALS! SOME ASEXUALS ARE SEXUALLY ACTIVE IN THEIR RELATIONSHIPS!"

"Yes, some asexuals are perfectly willing to have sex in their relationships. But it's generally very difficult for them, and they tend not to like it."

"NOT ALL ASEXUALS! SOME ASEXUALS ACTUALLY ENJOY SEX!"

"Yes, some asexuals are capable of enjoying sex. But it's pretty rare, and the enjoyment tends to be much less than it is for the average person."

 

When enough people have an incessant urge to only ever talk about stereotype-defying asexuals, the run-of-the-mill sex-repulsed/averse celibate asexuals get completely shut out. And if we try to address this problem by talking about why most asexuals are probably not having sex, people think we're trying to enforce the stereotypes they're fighting against. Boom, instant conflict.

[everywhere and nowhere]

On 5/27/2020 at 4:02 AM, GiftedWithSingleness said:

When enough people have an incessant urge to only ever talk about stereotype-defying asexuals, the run-of-the-mill sex-repulsed/averse celibate asexuals get completely shut out. And if we try to address this problem by talking about why most asexuals are probably not having sex, people think we're trying to enforce the stereotypes they're fighting against. Boom, instant conflict.

Except... are sex-averse and sex-repulsed asexuals really within the stereotype? Remember that most people outside the asexual community need to draw their knowledge of the issue from some source. And to me it seems that rather sex-indifferent asexuals are portrayed most often, in quite a lot of cases, although not always - sexually active asexuals. If anything, now "debunking the myth that all asexuals are sex-averse" has become one of the most widespread messages.

On 5/27/2020 at 4:02 AM, GiftedWithSingleness said:

It ends up minimizing the very real struggles a lot of asexuals face.

And here I very much agree. I often have an impression that mainstream asexual coverage is created with the goal of making asexuality "more palatable" by minimising differences between asexuality and that what is believed to be "normal sexuality". But asexuals are not all alike, they may face different kinds and levels of difficulties based on factors such as romantic orientation, relationship status, level of (potential) willingness to have sex... If someone is also aromantic, sex aversion changes little. But if someone desires a close relationship, an absolute inability to "compromise" in sexual matters is very likely to complicate the issue, and perhaps the media are a little afraid of delving into it because it would spoil the effect of a "success story" they are trying to create...

[ClaryFray1984]

I never wanted sex. Even on my wedding night. It was the worst experience. My first and only attempt. I went along with it because I didn't know I was asexual at the time. I thought something was wrong with me. Ironically there actually was a need for me to have an gyno op. It was painful embarrassing and I shoved him away.

Now I'm never going to try it again and if that keeps me single so be it.

[Karret]

On 5/10/2020 at 12:09 PM, cato said:

 Very few people actually want to feel abnormal.

For me, it's not that I want to feel abnormal, I just know how to accept when I am and not feel any shame about that. I'm abnormal in a shitton of ways; been treated as abnormal since I was a kid, so I've grown used to that feeling and just chug along anyways.

 

To be on topic; I don't like when people say or act like asexuals can experience sexual desire and lust after people and actively seek out sex.... that's inherently sexual behavior, "the innate desire for partnered sex" IS sexual attraction. It feels like straight people [or maybe other orientations who think their sexuality is boring now] want to co-opt a very real orientation to seem special, and if they can find a way to squeeze into the orientation, by god, they're going to try their hardest, even if it breaks the whole purpose of the orientation in the first place. \:

Having sex because you want kids, to please your partner, out of curiosity or because society made you feel like you had to or should; like okay, doesn't mean you innately want/ed it for its own sake... but if in your ideal world, you want to have sex, then you're not ace. The asexual preference is "never with anyone please and thank you". Even if someone just uses other people to get off as a sexual release kinda thing.... that's still sexual. They're going to have preferences for who they want to share sexual experiences with... and who one prefers to share sexual experiences with is what decides one's sexuality. Asexuals would prefer to not share their sexual experiences [if they have any] with anyone. The folks who just want sex to scratch an itch might be aromantic, but by seeking out and actively desiring sex innately, they are not ace and it's really messed up to conflate the two.

And it really sucks that instead of being directed towards a more accurate description, they're fed misinformation by people who think maintaining boundaries on the definition of an orientation is .. idk gatekeeping or something? I guess it's okay for straight dudes to call themselves gay even though they'll only engage sexually with women?? Or it's okay for straight women to call themselves lesbians even though they only engage sexually with dudes?? It's just really dangerous and extremely invalidating.

I'd like to think most people wouldn't do that intentionally. It's just that the minority who do purposefully do this affect a larger amount of people who aren't trying to be invalidating, but because so many people have now gotten the wrong idea, they spread that around and it becomes this hugely exponentially larger problem than it would be if it was just the minority keeping to their own circle thinking invalidating shit. I feel bad for the asexuals trying to make a mixed orientation relationship work out and the sexual partner pulls out some "what's the deal? Asexuals can be just as sex hungry as sexuals" shit on them.

[Karret]

On 5/30/2020 at 7:50 PM, Nowhere Girl said:

Except... are sex-averse and sex-repulsed asexuals really within the stereotype? Remember that most people outside the asexual community need to draw their knowledge of the issue from some source. And to me it seems that rather sex-indifferent asexuals are portrayed most often, in quite a lot of cases, although not always - sexually active asexuals. If anything, now "debunking the myth that all asexuals are sex-averse" has become one of the most widespread messages.

Depending on your definitions of "repulsed" and "averse", I fit the definition, and I've seen a lot of people who fit the same definition that I'm using. I don't recoil at seeing sex on the tv or in a movie [though sometimes, I'll sigh and eyeroll at it], I don't have a problem with sex jokes.. but for the foreseeable future, I will never have sex. The idea of me having sex grosses me out. Thoroughly.  If other people want sex, that's fine and dandy, no problem. There's even a bit of morbid/scholarly curiosity about it... but I don't ever want to engage in it.

Most of the stories I've heard of asexual people has been shit like they don't see why it was hyped up so much, they weren't interested, they felt broken when they felt no attraction or desire to ever have sex, shit like that. So, there is a tendency for asexuals to be averse to or repulsed by themselves having sex. The same way a gay person is repulsed by or averse to the idea of having straight sex, or a straight person is repulsed by or averse to the thought of having gay sex. Asexuals are generally repulsed by or averse to the idea of having sex with anyone. This is how it is understood to be an orientation. If aces simply didn't care, they'd be more like bisexual or pansexual, who generally aren't repulsed by or averse to the idea of having sex with anyone. But there is a decided preference to NOT engage in sex with ANYONE. That's what unites asexuals; even if there might be extenuating circumstances that might force an asexual to compromise and have sex for reasons other than innately desiring to have it... but having sex at all goes AGAINST their preference. They are making the choice to go AGAINST their preference for external reasons. If someone innately WANTS to have sex for the sake of having sex... then they aren't ace.

[everywhere and nowhere]

2 hours ago, Karret said:

If aces simply didn't care, they'd be more like bisexual or pansexual, who generally aren't repulsed by or averse to the idea of having sex with anyone.

I'm absolutely sex-averse, absolutely a person who chooses to never have sex, and yet I disagree. Are you seriously trying to claim that sex-indifferent aces are not asexual?

No, I don't support extending the definition of asexuality to the point of absurd, but invalidating either sex-indifferent or sex-averse aces is just wrong. Both groups fit exactly within the definition of asexuality. Being able to do something is not the same as desiring it and I will defend sex-indifferent aces as long as they also accept me and don't tell me that if I personally could never have sex, There's Something Wrong with me.

[Janus the Fox]

A small reminder that sex indifference Asexuality are valid identities and I’d like to emphasise that sex repulsion/negativity does not define an asexual either.  This is extends toward sex favourable/positivity identities.

[Gifted With Singleness]

12 hours ago, Karret said:

I don't like when people say or act like asexuals can experience sexual desire and lust after people and actively seek out sex.... that's inherently sexual behavior, "the innate desire for partnered sex" IS sexual attraction. It feels like straight people [or maybe other orientations who think their sexuality is boring now] want to co-opt a very real orientation to seem special, and if they can find a way to squeeze into the orientation, by god, they're going to try their hardest, even if it breaks the whole purpose of the orientation in the first place. \:

It's really weird, because it seems like there are two main groups of people who are doing this, and they're almost polar opposites of each other.

 

First, there are people who only have sex to "scratch an itch" and don't really care about the person they're having sex with. It's not about the person; it's about the sex. These people seem to think that this constitutes sexual desire without sexual attraction, making them asexual.

 

Second, there are people who seem to think of sexual attraction as a baseless carnal urge. "I want to have sex for wholesome reasons, unlike those dirty allos who want to have sex for literally no reason whatsoever." These people don't like being called sexual because that makes them feel like they're being lumped in with the perverts they don't want to be associated with.

[Karret]

On 6/8/2020 at 5:05 AM, Nowhere Girl said:

I'm absolutely sex-averse, absolutely a person who chooses to never have sex, and yet I disagree. Are you seriously trying to claim that sex-indifferent aces are not asexual?

No, I don't support extending the definition of asexuality to the point of absurd, but invalidating either sex-indifferent or sex-averse aces is just wrong. Both groups fit exactly within the definition of asexuality. Being able to do something is not the same as desiring it and I will defend sex-indifferent aces as long as they also accept me and don't tell me that if I personally could never have sex, There's Something Wrong with me.

I wasn't trying to say that people who can compromise on sex aren't ace; but people who actively seek out partnered sex are sexual. If your ideal world includes having sex to the point you seek it out, you are sexual.

If you could take it or leave it, I count that as like... they wouldn't be sad if they never had it again for the rest of their lives, therefore they don't prefer to have it. They might not have a problem with having it, but if they don't instigate a sexual encounter, then it's not their ideal, while if they do instigate a sexual encounter, then they are experiencing an innate desire for partnered sex, which is sexual desire which is something sexual people have, not asexual people have.

[Karret]

16 hours ago, GiftedWithSingleness said:

It's really weird, because it seems like there are two main groups of people who are doing this, and they're almost polar opposites of each other.

 

First, there are people who only have sex to "scratch an itch" and don't really care about the person they're having sex with. It's not about the person; it's about the sex. These people seem to think that this constitutes sexual desire without sexual attraction, making them asexual.

 

Second, there are people who seem to think of sexual attraction as a baseless carnal urge. "I want to have sex for wholesome reasons, unlike those dirty allos who want to have sex for literally no reason whatsoever." These people don't like being called sexual because that makes them feel like they're being lumped in with the perverts they don't want to be associated with.

Yes. Exactly.

[Plushval]

On 5/6/2020 at 11:21 AM, Still said:

Aces who have had sex: "You're not really asexual then."

Aces who haven't had sex: "How can you know you're asexual if you haven't had sex?"

...big oof! 🤣