How do heteroromantic aces feel about being called 'straight'?

[R_1]

1 minute ago, PanFicto. said:

But if someone was going around saying "im a man and I'd never have sex with with a woman, I have no interest in that, but I do want a romantic relationship with a woman, so I'm straight" people would say that person is being disingenuous because without the sex part, that person is effectively, well, asexual. Which is exactly why the asexual label exists at all.

 

We all agree that asexuals can have other kinds of attraction to people, just not sexual. So why do those other forms of attraction suddenly equate to defining factors in other people's orientations? A straight person may feel them or not feel them, but as long as they experience sexual attraction (the desire for partnered sexual contact) with people of the opposite gender, they're straight.

I'm aware of why the asexual label exists. However, I'm pointing out that there's a lot of people out there that are actually more open to the idea that straight/gay is more than just sexual attraction, and therefore makes room for that very possibility.

 

To the second, I'm going to ask again. If I were a heterosexual homooromantic, why would I use straight to describe myself and especially in that scenario implies that most people around me already thinks of me as not-straight and it is because to many of them sexuality isn't the only thing they would factor in.

 

4 minutes ago, PanFicto. said:

Yeah but it isn't more loose. Just like gay doesn't mean "I think men are hot but I only desire sex with women".

 

Or should we loosen up 'ace' to mean people who only desire sex on Fridays??

 

Sure, except that gay/straight are already agreed unanimously and with no room for adaptation to be dependent on the gender/sex of individuals. Ace is already agreed to be absence of sexual attraction. So, I don't think we disagree here.

 

5 minutes ago, PanFicto. said:

Okay well I guess you also have no issue with heterosexual people calling themselves ace too then. Because if straight doesn't mean anything specific to you then neither does ace.

That's a nice strawman you have there. Straight to me means being hetero-orientated factoring in different orientations. That means pretty much exclusively hetero-attracted within at least on the romantic or sexual side. That's clear. Ace means asexual, so I would have issue with a heterosexual calling themselves ace.

[maybeimamazed]

2 hours ago, GlamRocker said:

@maybeimamazed Sexual people generally have genital preferences. This is just a thing.

 

Well, she's not a lesbian then. Lesbians don't want to have sex with penises, that's literally part of what being lesbian means. They are people with vaginas that desire to have sex with other vagina bearers. If a woman who likes to have sex with vaginas also finds penises good for the sex... she is a bi or pansexual.

 

You should know there are some lesbians who feel they are being erased and/or expected to have sex with penises because of the kind of things you are saying here.

 

Well, PIV sex isn't gay sex, that's for sure. So, yeah, he's bi or pan.

 

This reminds me of how a guy at work was once bragging about how he "turned" this lesbian because she agreed to have sex with him and enjoyed it. I was just like, "Dude. She just found out she's bi is all. It's not like she suddenly stopped liking women." It's not bad to discover that one is actually... bi/pan.

 

I mean, if people's sexualities were determined by GENDER and not SEX (which, yeah, would be cool... of course, I WOULD say that, I've always been of the PAN variety) then this would work... but too many people have genital preferences.

 

I mean, some people DON'T have a genital preference, and that's why they are bi/pan... sure some people won't identify that way due to having a GENDER preference (like the example with your friend here.) There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not the way sexualities are technically determined. I mean if a person with a penis has sex with another person with a penis, and then says, "It's not gay, though." That person is factually wrong. I get why someone with a gender preference, but not a genital one would identify by their gender preference, though. I'm just saying this is not the common situation, and most people not only DON'T identify that way (by a gender preference) they CAN'T (because they have a genital preference.)

 

I have just observed that the romantic orientations seem to work in the same way... most asexuals seem to be using it to distinguish the SEX that they are romantically interested in, not the gender. As, no, asexuals do NOT across the board all consider trans as romantic partners.

Well, first of all, this conversation started because you claimed ROMANTIC attraction is determined by people’s genitalia, which - to me - is even more absurd than a similar claim being made about SEXUAL attraction. But I’ll play along.

 

You said “lesbians are people with vaginas that want to have sex with other vagina bearers”. For starters, not all lesbians have vaginas. Trans lesbians don’t.

 

Lesbians are women who want to have sex with other women. A man having sex with another man is gay sex because there are TWO MEN involved, not two penises.
 

Sexual attraction is the drive or desire to have sex with another person, period. I repeat, SEX with another person (male, female, both or anything in between). If sex can take many forms (PiV, oral, anal, etc), how does the type of sex a couple is having influence their sexuality?

 

If a man and a woman are having anal sex, does that make them a gay couple? If a man is fingering a woman, does that make them a lesbian couple?
 

If what you say is true, nobody would ever experience sexual attraction until the object of affection took their pants off.

[Philip027]

Quote

Well, she's not a lesbian then. Lesbians don't want to have sex with penises, that's literally part of what being lesbian means. They are people with vaginas that desire to have sex with other vagina bearers. If a woman who likes to have sex with vaginas also finds penises good for the sex... she is a bi or pansexual.

My my, what a very TERFy thing to say.  This'll go over well around here.

 

Quote

You should know there are some lesbians who feel they are being erased and/or expected to have sex with penises because of the kind of things you are saying here.

Boo hoo fucking hoo.

 

The people who are whining about being "erased" are just the same sort of people who are whining about how they're "losing" things like women's bathrooms to trans females (whom they still clearly think of as "guys" invading their space to peep or whatever).  To most of which I say, too fucking bad.

 

I'd also bet this crowd is nowhere near as significant in number as the "aces who are expected to have sex at all" crowd, too.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, R_1 said:

However, I'm pointing out that there's a lot of people out there that are actually more open to the idea that straight/gay is more than just sexual attraction, and therefore makes room for that very possibility.

Where are these people? Because again if you don't have sexual attraction (desire for partnered sexual contact) then you're just asexual. It's the attraction that's key to the orientation. 

 

Yes many people (ace and sexual) experience other kinds of attraction, but they have no bearing on your sexual orientation.

 

4 hours ago, R_1 said:

. If I were a heterosexual homooromantic, why would I use straight to describe myself and especially in that scenario implies that most people around me already thinks of me as not-straight and it is because to many of them sexuality isn't the only thing they would factor in.

You might not describe yourself that way, but who you desire sex with defines your sexual orientation. If you say "I'm a man and I'm gay because I love men, but I only want sex with women" the gay community will most definitely say "well actually, you're straight then" (or more likely they'll say you're bi or something and assume you're just repulsed about sex with men). 

 

4 hours ago, R_1 said:

most people around me already thinks of me as not-straight

Honestly I'm not sure where all these people you keep mentioning are, but if you are a man and you actively want sex with women, none of them will say "he's definitely gay" even if you feel romantic for other guys. Most will assume you are bi or pan, but repulsed to the idea of sex with men. They're certainly not going to say you're gay though.

 

4 hours ago, R_1 said:

except that gay/straight are already agreed unanimously and with no room for adaptation to be dependent on the gender/sex of individuals.

Yes because they're about who you want sex with. There are plenty of aromantic sexual people but no one is suddenly trying to deny that they are sexual. Your romantic orientation literally has no bearing on your sexual orientation, it just happens that they coincide for many sexual people. 

 

Asexuals are always getting mad that people assume all asexuals are aromantic. Why? Because sexual orientation and romantic orientation are not actually the same thing, despite the fact that they coincide for many sexual people.

 

4 hours ago, R_1 said:

Straight to me means being hetero-orientated factoring in different orientations.

There. That's all that needs to be said there. You're trying to define it how YOU want to define it, not how its meant to be defined.

 

Straight MEANS heterosexual, and often the romantic orientation just happens to coincide for sexual people. That's it. That's all. 

 

4 hours ago, R_1 said:

Ace means asexual,

Yep. That means you don't innately desire sex with anyone.

 

4 hours ago, R_1 said:

so I would have issue with a heterosexual calling themselves ace.

Yeah because heterosexuals desire sex with other people. Asexuals don't. That's why you have issue with that.

 

So it doesn't work the other way around either (an ace literally calling themselves the word that means heterosexual) unless you try to forcefully change the word 'straight' to mean something unique to you.

 

4 hours ago, R_1 said:

That's a nice strawman you have there.

It wasn't a strawman, I was making a point.

 

Because I could define asexual in my own unique way which would make it totally valid for heterosexual people to identify as asexual. Like I could say "asexual means you desire sex with the opposite gender, but only if you respect them" then heaps of heterosexuals will say "oh heck that's me. I'm ace" and they'd be correct by my own special definition of asexual.

 

You're using the accurate definition of ace (asexual), but making your own special definition for straight (heterosexual). 

 

Spoiler

(and again as I said earlier, I don't even care if an ace calls themselves straight for appearance reasons or whatever. Heaps of gay people do that too!! I'm just saying the ace isn't actually straight (heterosexual). They're hetero-romantic asexual. They aren't the thing that means heterosexual.)

 

 

[Guest]

I'm also assuming @R_1 that hetero-romantic aces aren't part of the LGBTQA+++ to you?? If they're straight by your personal definition of straight? Because we all know straight isn't part of the LGBTQA+++

[Philip027]

That's assuming everyone is defining straight in that way.  They don't.  Where I'm from, "straight" typically has just meant you're a dude that wants to date chicks, or a chick that wants to date dudes.  "Gay" typically has just meant you're a dude that wants to date dudes, or a chick that wants to date chicks.  That's it.

 

Sex might play into that, but it is not the only component of relationship desire; it is not the sole determinant of one's dating/relationship preferences.

 

Nobody in meatspace is going to use or recognize "heteroromantic".  They'll just say straight anyway.  Heteroromantic is a term that's only really utilized in ace circles.

[Rynn]

Steer clear of identity policing please everyone.

Laurann, moderator

[GlamRocker]

9 hours ago, maybeimamazed said:

If what you say is true, nobody would ever experience sexual attraction until the object of affection took their pants off.

No, because people assume they know other's genitalia, that's the whole point of gendering appearances which is, as we all know, a foundation of society. That's half of what gender even IS. This is also why it's a good idea for trans people to disclose they're trans to potential partners BEFORE the pants come off. Another thing we all know.

[Rynn]

Locking this for 24 hours for cool down.

Laurann, moderator.

[Rynn]

Unlocking. 

Laurann, moderator

[Kelwyne]

All I can contribute as an asexual male in his 40s (with a tendency towards heteromantic), and labeled by others as both "straight" and "gay" in the past...

is that I never really liked being referred to as either. Why?

1. I didn't think it really mattered or was anyones business
2. I always felt it was not quite accurate for me to be called "straight" if i didnt want a physical relationship 
3. I related "straight" and "gay" to sexuality and me being "asexual" (even though I didn't know what that was, it was how I identifed).
4. I always considered love to be independent of physical intimacy.

My apologies if my answer is not direct or doesn't make sense, I'm still trying to frame it myself in my own head.

 

Interesting discussion and read, thank you all for your contribution.

[Low End Things]

I don't mind it. I really, honestly don't. It doesn't bother me. I'll call myself straight if it makes the conversation I'm having easier.

[Asroco]

On 4/22/2020 at 1:45 PM, United Pizza 149 said:

What are some reasons a hetero-ace might find 'straight' a useful label, as well as other reasons why some don't like it? And, is it the same as a homoromantic ace using labels like gay, lesbian, etc., or not?

Homoromantic asexual man, here (or at least I fall somewhere in that ballpark). I became interested in this thread because it was more recent and lengthier than this one, although it would be more relevant.

 

From my experience, I identified as gay asexual for the first few months after I first discovered myself, though I've always been uncomfortable with the gay term. I've since dropped the label after I attended queer parties and found out they weren't for me. Same-sex attraction was the only thing I had in common with those people; I didn't care for the gender-bending, heavy drinking, casual flirting, oversexualization, etc., but I endured it for a while because I saw it as me becoming more myself rather than someone else.

 

Gay, to me, is more of a cultural/behavioral term than one based in attraction. I love watching Trixie Mattel and Katya's UNHhhh series, and when they talk about what it means to be gay, I get the sense that it has more to do with favored sexual activities, feminized performances and a personal history of stigmatization. None of these apply to me, however: Sex is a tertiary concern (I'm comfortable with sex, but it's not a deal breaker), I would describe my presentation as more masculine, and I'm fortunate enough to say that I've never felt victimized for who I am. So not only does the gay label not apply to me, but it feels wrong when I use it to describe myself.

 

 

But in all honesty, since I've found a partner, I don't think about my labels all that much. I see myself as leaning on one axis towards exclusive attraction to men and on another axis between asexual and cupiosexual, but I'm not strictly one or two things. In fact, I would love to have a one-word label like gay that describes someone like me rather than feel like I'm two things--"homoromantic asexual"--at once. For the moment, though, gay more often applies to any man who is attracted to other men, just like how lesbian is taken to mean the same thing for women, though I wonder if some homoromantic women on the ace spectrum would also feel uncomfortable with that community as well.

 

So where does that leave the straight label? Well, the answer's going to be different for each individual heteromantic people on the ace spectrum. Like gay, I see it as being a set of performances. If you don't feel like those performances apply to you, then don't worry about it. I've heard that there are straight-identifying men who worry about washing certain parts of their bodies and thereby lose their exclusive straight-club membership, so I won't blame you 😂

[Low End Things]

4 hours ago, Asroco said:

But in all honesty, since I've found a partner, I don't think about my labels all that much.

I think this is a common theme. I'm willing to bet many aces stop worrying so much about the labels once they're getting validation from the people who matter to them (usually a significant other). Since I last posted in this topic I've managed to find that in a few ways and that's definitely how I feel now. Although it's still fun to talk about.

[Masterman]

I don't like the word "straight" because it think it could be offensive for those who aren't. That said, I still self-identify as straight, in the way that it's often defined by society.

 

Yes, I don't want to have sex with either gender, but I'm still attracted to the opposite gender, so I've never cuestioned my "hetero" orientation. If anything, I feel much less at home with labels such as queer, which are totally fine for those who want it, but I simply can't identify as such.

 

And after all, labels are for yourself, so you can chose the ones you want.

[Joe Legend]

Thank you guys for putting feelings into such elegant words...honestly the more and more I look up the definitions...demi aro etc...the more of a headache I develop...lol...so for the moment I have decided to label myself as complicated!!!!!

 

[Bella2be]

Hey! Former straight ace here!

I used to identify as a straight ace back when I thought I was heteroromantic. However, I've been questioning my romantic orientation for quite a while now, so I don't really know. I just identify as a queer ace, but I don't think I would like to be called straight. Beforehand, I would probably do so, but not now. However, that probably has to do with the fact that I'm pretty sure I'm not heteroromantic. 

[Isa20]

I mean I honestly don’t care if that is how people understand. However, when I told people I was straight (before I figured out my identity) I felt like there was something wrong. I am not straight and it doesn’t matter that I’m Demi-heteromantic, it’s not the same thing as straight. 

[fgdsayshi]

I'm a heteromantic ace, but I won't judge a fellow heteromantic ace if they're fine with being called straight. 

 

Solely speaking for myself, however, it's a totally different ball game. 🤩🤩

 

I'm upfront about being asexual when it comes to dating apps because I know that being upfront can sort of cut out the kind of people I wouldn't want to date & the sort of people who wouldn't want to date me. I'm learning to ease into being comfortable with talking about my sexual orientation because it's part of who I am, but saying I'm straight can be misleading in some cases from what I've experienced. I've been approached by some men that aren't too bright & assume that being ace is something you become (especially due to trauma) & some who think you never get turned on, but I try to focus on just being true to myself & not being hard on myself for not being what I thought I was.

 

I had other things I wanted to say, but I'm sort of stuck at the moment & it's harder for me to word my thoughts on mobile lol.