Aris Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 This is a rant. A long one. There is a bit of yelling at the bottom. You have been warned. Before I start my rant here is some background: I like to follow ace positive accounts on social media. If I like the post I comment, like you do. But one of the things that have started popping up a lot more in comment sections are asexual elitist comments. They say things like: “saying aces can have sex drives makes us look like a joke” or “the whole point of being asexual is to have nothing to do with sex” or “x group of aces isn’t ace because of y”. I have noticed that a lot of people confuse sexual attraction with sexdrive/libido so I try to politely correct them and direct them to credible asexual information resources (usually to AVEN). But so many people (aces and allos alike) have continuously clogged ace positive posts with asexual elitism. Rant time: An ace told me “You still have a sex drive so you aren’t ace.” Then gave me the GOOGLE DEFINITION of asexual! Which was probably written by either an allo or an elitist. I responded with the AVEN’s definition. They said that’s not the “real definition” and that I still wasn’t ace. I think they blocked me after that. An allo said “ libido =sexual attraction so if you say you’re ace but you have a sex drive you’re lying”. An allo said “ if aces have a sex drive they are either players or lying about being ace (+plus a transphobic and mocking comment)” An ace said “That isn’t how any of this works at all. We don’t have sex drives, or sexual attraction or sexual feelings and we are all sex repulsed” WHY!?!???!?? Aces: You are ACE why are you blatantly ignoring the real facts and definitions. For %#¥**$@&** sake!!! You’re ace!!!!! Accept other aces!!!!! Use credible sources!!!! Allos: What are you doing?!?!!! You aren’t ace!!! Why are you arguing with aces about OUR sexuality?!?!!! I gave you the real definition and pointed you to AVEN but NOOOO you keep telling me that the GOOGLE DEFINITION is the right one!???!? WHAT DO you MEAN I just want to be special?!?!! Do think I WANTED this chasm between me and the rest of my peers? $@$:&;$.! %**!@&$!!!!! $&-@:%£’!! okay im done now how are you today Link to post Share on other sites
Grey-Ace Ventura Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Ugh. I feel that. Well, if they don't think you're ace then whatever. You know you are and their distorted opinions don't change a thing. Link to post Share on other sites
Phalena Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 I have nothing intelligent to say about those people's behaviour. Please, accept this cake and a hug. 🤗 Link to post Share on other sites
Hadgr Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Personally I like the variations in the ACE spectrum. It makes it easier to relate to and be okay with the fact that you don't match with every aspect of supposed 'hard core' asexuality. I'm not sex repulsed and love to make sexually tinted jokes but I also have zero libido and know that I don't want sex as sure as I know that I don't want to eat turd. It doesn't matter what they say: as long as you know who you are. The only thing I (again personally) can't handle are people who treat it like a disease. I once read a post that said 'Cured of asexuality', it makes me think of the old days when people thought they could cure gay men by a good old beating. I was once approached by a sexual that claimed he could cure me and had cured people before... no, go away creep. Link to post Share on other sites
Hecturdd Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Smh.........ppl need to be more open minded! Allow themselves to grow and learn. Link to post Share on other sites
Karst Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Almost no one perfectly fits the labels that they choose to describe themself. They're quick approximations, not absolute rules. Link to post Share on other sites
doggalogga Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 You can't live your life around people with no idea I don't need the validation of others to know what I am If people want to think they know me, then ultimately they're the deluded ones Link to post Share on other sites
Aris Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 6 hours ago, CBC said: Desiring sex with other people because you innately like having sex with other people -- for any reason -- is a very strong indicator that someone is sexual. And I get that. The lines kind of get blurry at that point but I’m not talking about behavior. asexuality is lack of sexual attraction and I am tired of people who aren’t aces belittling/gatekeeping/mocking the ace community because some of us have a libido. The allos I was talking about are the ones who argue with aces about the definition of asexuality. If you experience none or extremely little sexual attraction you are ace. That’s it. Or it should be. But I see so many ace elitists (Allo and Ace) creating these false requirements to be a “true asexual” and it pisses me off. 6 hours ago, CBC said: 6 hours ago, CBC said: So that's one reason that 'allos' might tell someone that they don't seem asexual. DON’T ever say that to ace. If they aren’t secure enough in their identity this can lead to a lot of needless self doubt and anxiety. This happened to me so many times when I was still learning about asexuality and accepting myself. Every time it smashed whatever little peace I had with my identity. Don’t ever say that to an ace. If you think that keep it to yourself. 6 hours ago, CBC said: Well, for one, us 'allos' have a better grasp of what it's like to feel a desire for partnered sexual activity than some people who are or claim to be asexual do. Are you mad about the word allo? It literally means everyone except aces. It’s shorter than people who are not asexual or non asexual people and it sounds less impersonal. Could you explain why you are offended? People who claim to be asexual and are lying on purpose are outliers. If someone says they are ace the default should be to believe them unless they say that they experience sexual attraction. Even if you do understand sexual attraction more it doesn’t excuse those allos from trying to restrict and deny our asexuality. Again I was not talking about all allos just those ones. Link to post Share on other sites
HikaruBG Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Oh, ffs, soon or later this thread will be locked up again by the mods because some people can't rake the hint that they are wrong and throw a tantrum because "I've been invalidated!". It seems like AVEN is starting to get more traction from Tumblr refugees from other social medias over this. 2 hours ago, Aris said: Are you mad about the word allo? It literally means everyone except aces. It’s shorter than people who are not asexual or non asexual people and it sounds less impersonal. Could you explain why you are offended? Because the term "Allosexual" has very negative connotations to it. It's usually used by people who have very negative view on what's considered "normal sexuality" (be it because of the raise of popularity of the hook-up culture and casual sex, the way how different medias represents sexuality or limited personal interaction with other people... which always seems to be with horny teenagers who are hyper-focused on certain physical traits or sexual harrasment) and feel uncomfortable with the idea of being even tiny bit similar to it. How tf do you expect sexuals to just use the term "Allosexuals" when that term generalizes them all as bunch of shallow sex-obssessed horndogs who would literally fuck anyone (including complete strangers across the street), simply because they are horny or because they looked hot/sexy? Lol, no. Link to post Share on other sites
Janus the Fox Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 This is a rant about being told they're not Ace, please do not use this thread to actually tell anyone directly their experience or suggest their experiences are invalid or erase anyone's experiences on this matter. Janus DarkFox Questions about Asexuality, Asexual Musings and Rantings & Open Mic Moderator (Edited to convey accuracy) Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 5 hours ago, Aris said: Are you mad about the word allo? It literally means everyone except aces. It’s shorter than people who are not asexual or non asexual people and it sounds less impersonal. Could you explain why you are offended? On AVEN at least, those of us who are not ace after being polled decided on "sexual" - allosexual has a lot of issues with it and most of us simply dislike the term. For one, it means "othersexual" in literal translation. And, in some parts of the world, it means "queer" due to that meaning - meaning, applying "allo" to heterosexuals is offensive to those who literally had to go through a government agency to get it approved as a label for queer communities (including asexuals in those queer communities)... they can't just pick a new word for their queer groups because it takes a lot of paperwork and a committee run by politicians to approve it if they tried. So, appropriating that term to put it on us sexuals just seems... rude to those communities. As a non-ace, I'm pretty much never gonna much like being called "allosexual" - sexual works just fine. Link to post Share on other sites
Aris Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 4 hours ago, HikaruBG said: How tf do you expect sexuals to just use the term "Allosexuals" when that term generalizes them all as bunch of shallow sex-obssessed horndogs who would literally fuck anyone (including complete strangers across the street), simply because they are horny or because they looked hot/sexy? 7 minutes ago, Serran said: On AVEN at least, those of us who are not ace after being polled decided on "sexual" - allosexual has a lot of issues with it and most of us simply dislike the term. I am new to AVEN (I have only been on here for a week) and I had no idea that allo sexual was insulting or connected to those generalizations. I have only seen it used as a neutral term. I apologize and I will refrain from using it again. 3 hours ago, CBC said: I'm sorry logical definitions annoy you. The “logical definitions” that excluding sexuals and ace elitists alike use are: -Must be a virgin -Can’t have a sex drive/libido -Must be celibate (for life) -Can’t masturbate -Must be sex repulsed/sex adverse -Etc Those aren’t ”logical” at all. 4 hours ago, HikaruBG said: some people can't rake the hint that they are wrong and throw a tantrum This post was a rant. I very explicitly stated that it was a rant in my original post. I was talking about the specific people who were spreading misinformation and excluding aces for ridiculous reasons (see above). This section of the forums is for rants. Could someone explain how am I wrong? For being being angry about people denying my asexuality and denying AVEN’s own definition for asexuality. I don’t get it. Link to post Share on other sites
everywhere and nowhere Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, Aris said: The “logical definitions” that excluding sexuals and ace elitists alike use are: -Must be a virgin -Can’t have a sex drive/libido -Must be celibate (for life) -Can’t masturbate -Must be sex repulsed/sex adverse -Etc Some people will always find something to nitpick. As for the fifth "requirement", I have seen more of the opposite: that "True Asexuals" must be sex-indifferent, have to Just Not Care about sex, and that those who have a level of active aversion Have A Problem instead... I'm sex-averse, wouldn't have sex for any reason and I find it just harmful if aces are implicitly expected to tolerate and, preferably, even actively enjoy sex. Everyone has a right to be sexually unavailable. Link to post Share on other sites
HikaruBG Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 22 hours ago, Aris said: This post was a rant. I very explicitly stated that it was a rant in my original post. I was talking about the specific people who were spreading misinformation and excluding aces for ridiculous reasons (see above). This section of the forums is for rants. Could someone explain how am I wrong? For being being angry about people denying my asexuality and denying AVEN’s own definition for asexuality. I don’t get it. On 4/12/2020 at 10:34 PM, Aris said: They say things like: “saying aces can have sex drives makes us look like a joke” or “the whole point of being asexual is to have nothing to do with sex” or “x group of aces isn’t ace because of y”. I have noticed that a lot of people confuse sexual attraction with sexdrive/libido so I try to politely correct them and direct them to credible asexual information resources (usually to AVEN). But so many people (aces and allos alike) have continuously clogged ace positive posts with asexual elitism. Rant time: An ace told me “You still have a sex drive so you aren’t ace.” Then gave me the GOOGLE DEFINITION of asexual! Which was probably written by either an allo or an elitist. I responded with the AVEN’s definition. They said that’s not the “real definition” and that I still wasn’t ace. I think they blocked me after that. An allo said “ libido =sexual attraction so if you say you’re ace but you have a sex drive you’re lying”. An allo said “ if aces have a sex drive they are either players or lying about being ace (+plus a transphobic and mocking comment)” An ace said “That isn’t how any of this works at all. We don’t have sex drives, or sexual attraction or sexual feelings and we are all sex repulsed” While it is true the examples you gave here are bad, it seems like literally everyone doesn't fucking get it what is said to them by "asexuals can have libido". Because we encountered the same problems here as well... Literally 2-3 days ago, we had someone (who called the mods who locked and deleted the thread) saying that "asexuals can still desire sex because they can still have sex-drive/libido". They also stated the same generalizing statements in regards to sexuals, even after some sexuals here tried to politely correct them because apparently according to them, the sexuals are wrong because "my peers were like that and therefore, all allosexuals must be like that". By libido, we mean the physical/biologic aspect of it, not the mental aspect of it. But for some reason, everyone seem to take it all out of context or whatever. Spoiler Yes, if you are not aware, there 2 types of sexual desires - mental and physical (the mental one is also splitted in another 2 types - responsive sexual desire and spontaneous sexual desire). The physical/biological sexual desire is heavily influenced by different factors, such as hormones levels in the body, physical shape (a.i. whatever or not someone is working out) or stress. There are a lot of asexual women here who has said that their libido changes on monthly basis, the highest levels being around that time of the month. For asexual men, it also depends a lot as well, apparently. For some, even the weather can affect their libido. As for the mental aspect, there are 2 types of sexual desire most of people experience. Responsive sexual desire is mostly common with women. Spontaneous sexual desire - men... and then there are people who experiences both at the same time. There actual articles and scientific studies you can look up on this. The goal of these studies is to figure why does female sex-drive is so different from the male. And then you have the whole "Arousal Non-concordance" phenomenon (a.i. disconnection between mind and body where the body "may want sex" but the mind doesn't... and vice versa), Classical Conditioning and the whole fetish phenomenon (which provides that virtually anything can cause arousal in someone, as long as their brain perceives it as sex-related stimuli). But for these people, these things doesn't exist at all which... oh boy... trust me, you don't want to know how toxic and harmful that mentality is. Link to post Share on other sites
Firefly8 Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 19 hours ago, HikaruBG said: But for these people, these things doesn't exist at all which... oh boy... trust me, you don't want to know how toxic and harmful that mentality is. Can you please explain this last sentence? I was following, then got lost here. Link to post Share on other sites
Alejandrogynous Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 22 hours ago, Aris said: The “logical definitions” that excluding sexuals and ace elitists alike use are: -Must be a virgin -Can’t have a sex drive/libido -Must be celibate (for life) -Can’t masturbate -Must be sex repulsed/sex adverse -Etc I feel like I've gone back in time reading this, these assumptions used to be prevalent years ago but I very rarely encounter them at all these days. In fact, it's much more likely to encounter the opposite, "asexuals love sex, being ace doesn't mean we don't want sex," etc., which is where some of the replies you're getting are coming from. Sometimes it's important to listen to what sexual people have to say because the truth is, they have more experience with certain things and their input is valuable. Other times, like with the above statements, they can just shove it. Link to post Share on other sites
will123 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 When I was discussing my asexuality with a friend and his girlfriend I referred to them as sexuals. No reaction one way or the other from them. Seems like a simple term for me to remember. Link to post Share on other sites
HikaruBG Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 19 hours ago, Firefly8 said: Can you please explain this last sentence? I was following, then got lost here. Well.... you are supposed to take that sentence literally... as I've encountered people off-AVEN who doesn't take these things into consideration (either because they doesn't know or because they are being dishonest). Spoiler These guys are the typwe of people who would go up to a rape victim (who has reported experiencing arousal during their rape, despite that they didn't want it) and tell them "your body reacted to it, so this means that you have consented to it/secretly wanted it" or some bullshit like that. Not that this hasn't happened before. I have heard that this argument is often times used by certain advocates on purpose in courts. I guess, my point here is to show that there could be million of reasons why would someone's body may react (or not react) to someone's looks without meaning/wanting to (and regardless of what's their sexual orientation/sexuality is), so to speak. One of the most unusual ones (that nobody would even think about) that probably going to be, is Classical Conditioning (and not just that) imposed on the individual by the media itself because corporations/companies use certain marketing tricks, that are in some way connected to psychology, human behaviour and these kinds of scientific spheres. Edit: I hope I managed to throw my point across with this comment of mine. Link to post Share on other sites
deletingthisaccount Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 On 4/13/2020 at 4:49 PM, Aris said: The “logical definitions” that excluding sexuals and ace elitists alike use are: -Must be a virgin -Can’t have a sex drive/libido -Must be celibate (for life) -Can’t masturbate -Must be sex repulsed/sex adverse -Etc Those aren't the ones I was referring to. I don't actually hear those from too many people anyway. "I love sex and voluntarily seek it out", though... that makes someone not asexual. I think the term "sex drive" or "libido" sounds a bit misleading, which might be why those people that you mentioned didn't understand. Actually, when I first joined here and heard the term "libidoist asexual," I was confused because I thought it referred to sex-seeking asexual. Once I actually learned the terminology, I realized it referred to a physical libido - which made much more sense to me. But I think the term "libidoist asexual" or "asexual with sex drive" just sounds like it means sex-seeking asexual. Even if that's not actual meaning. Edit: So I tried to edit my comment for a grammar error and accidentally deleted the quote box. AVEN won't let me add the quotes back, so I copied and pasted it into the box instead. I apologize if the format is weird 😂 Link to post Share on other sites
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