China and the WHO

[Howard]

I hesitated to start this thread because much of the sources I was able to get are editorials or news media aligned strongly with an end of the political spectrum or the other, like Fox News.

I want to start a discussion about China and the WHO. Anyone knows why China is praised for its transparency by the WHO? Should China be ousted of the WHO considering the little commitment they have to the WHO despite having a large part of the world's population? Should the WHO have agents reviewing data from each country to ensure their transparency?

 

[Guest]

China is like.

 

Simon says:

[Howard]

@Phoenix the II If China has so much power on an international association as WHO that you can compare it to a  game of Simon says, shouldn't they be barred for any executive branch of the WHO and be more closely monitered?

[Guest]

So, do you want China not to even participate at all?

 

I hate politics... I'm out again...

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Howard said:

Anyone knows why China is praised for its transparency by the WHO?

Their response during SARS was atrocious. While, they were very slow in accepting this pandemic (they even tried to silence doctors, adding to the spread of the virus). They however, showed far more cooperation and did provide vital medical information to allow other nations to start preparing for testing.

 

They posted numbers that were regularly updated of the spread. They also allowed higher than usual levels of access, but again--hard to prove or disprove due to their highly opaque system.

 

Very hard to scold them (you'd need proof, and you'll be hard-pressed to find much in a country like that, or experts there willing to talk to the media in a way that could get them in trouble), but praising them hopefully encourages repeat or better behavior should there be another similar situation.

 

33 minutes ago, Howard said:

Should the WHO have agents reviewing data from each country to ensure their transparency?

Not sure what the procedure for this is. But to me, if it isn't something they currently do, I don't feel its of their business. The respective countries should be volunteering the information on their own accord, in solidarity with their global partners to ensure their common enemy (the virus) is eliminated.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Phoenix the II said:

I hate politics

I hope you appreciate the irony of that post, and where you've posted it..

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Phoenix the II said:

I hate politics... I'm out again...

Flying escort to deter flak batteries and enemy fighters.

 

I'm sure she meant that even those who hate politics can develop an unwanted and unhealthy fascination with certain political issues. Been there, done that.

[andreas1033]

What is the thread really about.

 

If you want who to be transparent, you should also ask trump, and american intelligence agencies, to tell everything they knew and when. Trump would of known when chinese leaders knew about covid19. America will be spying on china, with nsa, and cia, heavily, and the leaders of china will have no secrets from them.

 

So if your saying WHO covered up. Trump, and american agencies like cia, and nsa also are responsible for a massive cover up.

 

If you want to moan about WHO covering up, you should also want anyone whom had any knowledge brought out, and shown to way they also covered it up.

 

WHO is damned if they do, and damned if they do not.

 

Trump, and american gov could of told you everything they learnt from spying on china. But decided for themselves, to also cover up what happened in china with covid19.

 

There would be no way in hell, that trump was not briefed shortly after chinese leaders knew, as you can be sure, the cia, and nsa are heavily spying on chinese leaders. Trumps dni would be briefing him every day, on what he needs to know, and the covid19 breaking in china, would of been part of those briefings, long before it was exposed to media around the world. Trump and american gov, would of learned about covid19, when chinese leaders learned about it.

[Howard]

@andreas1033 Where do you get your information from?

[andreas1033]

8 minutes ago, Howard said:

@andreas1033 Where do you get your information from?

The nsa has half its budget spying on the world. The cia, is usa overseas intelligence agency.

 

Anything that happens in china will be known as soon at it happens.

 

I never said anything that is not well known here. The nsa, and cia are not secret agencies. The president being briefed by his dni, is not a secret, ie his daily briefings.

 

Trump would be briefed every day by his dni. In those briefings trump would be told of anything going on in china, and he would of known about covid19, as soon as chinese leaders knew about it.

 

Have you not heard of spying?

[Howard]

1 minute ago, andreas1033 said:

Have you not heard of spying?

Yes. Every country spies in order to further their countries' interest. What baffles me in what you say is how a market in Wuhan be of American interest? As far as I know, the US doesn't have the resources to have a spy on every street corner. Ben Laden's chase was notorious for the inability of the US to get quick information on this. Again, I'm asking you where do you get your information? Most of the info I find is pro-Trump, like Fox News, so please enlighten me.

[andreas1033]

3 minutes ago, Howard said:

Yes. Every country spies in order to further their countries' interest. What baffles me in what you say is how a market in Wuhan be of American interest? As far as I know, the US doesn't have the resources to have a spy on every street corner. Ben Laden's chase was notorious for the inability of the US to get quick information on this. Again, I'm asking you where do you get your information? Most of the info I find is pro-Trump, like Fox News, so please enlighten me.

No, i said americans will know exactly what is going on with the chinese leaders at any moment.

 

When the chinese knew about covid19 starting out, and it getting to a level where the chinese leaders would know. Then 100% sure americans will pick up on it.

What ever the truth is, the american gov would of known in real time shortly after the chinese leaders were informed something was going on, with covid19.

[Howard]

So if I use the same rationale, Obama is to blame for the chicken flu?

[Sinking_In]

China did 2 things wrong: they allowed live wild animals to interact with food prep, meat and produce in these "wet markets", let alone ones found in urban areas, and they failed to be forthright and immediately contain the outbreak. Aside from that, yeah, they've been great. The WHO should DEMAND China put an end to these wet markets, and then DEMAND China immediately report any health threats, and let the WHO assist.

[- Saph -]

Unfortunately I suspect that China has been less cooperative with WHO than previously announced in the internationnal community.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

I don't have any actions in this journal but a lot of googling "China misresporting covid" can bring additionnal sources. Some local correspondents also came to the conclusion that the authorities may have ommitted a few zeros in their figures. I google-translated below an article from the French press.

Spoiler

The Government has been keeping the remains in custody until the "end" of the epidemic. For a burrial before the death's day (tomorrow) the family could finally claim them back. A whistleblower explains that there are eight large crematoriums in the region. He stood in front of one of them to take pictures secretly, and calculated that, as people line up for hours and hours, at the rate of 500 ballot boxes returned per day by the crematorium, at the arrived one can estimate at nearly 59,000 the number of dead for the city of Wuhan alone, and that thus, for the whole of China, it is not less than 97,000 people who would have died. Regarding the number of infected, there could be "1, 2 million Chinese affected". The official figure reported at that time was around 3,200 deaths.

 

[Zagadka]

I don't trust a single word out of China. their accounts just can't be believed, especially with concern to the WHO. They just have no accountability.

[DuranDuranfan]

6 hours ago, Sinking_In said:

China did 2 things wrong: they allowed live wild animals to interact with food prep, meat and produce in these "wet markets", let alone ones found in urban areas, and they failed to be forthright and immediately contain the outbreak. Aside from that, yeah, they've been great. The WHO should DEMAND China put an end to these wet markets, and then DEMAND China immediately report any health threats, and let the WHO assist.

It was also the wet markets that caused the outbreak of original SARS. 
 

Now, I’ve heard they are back up and running again, business as usual like nothing ever happened.

[Skycaptain]

Much better to have them "in" and telling half-truths than "out" and saying nothing. 

 

So far as numbers go, remember that most nations are struggling to maintain accurate figures. If people die outside of medical supervision then the investigation into cause of death either takes ages, or would tie up resources better used elsewhere 

[Howard]

While chatting with friends on another site, I came across a point of view that I have not thought of. The WHO is a technical advise body with no enforcing power. There is nothing they could have done in regards to China since they have not asked for help. Which raises another question, should international associations such as WHO have enforcing power such as the UN peacekeepers?

[Howard]

 

[uhtred]

I think its a mistake to view China as a monolithic entity, just as it is a mistake to view the US as a single entity.  There are many different political forces at work in both places 

 

In the end I don't think most of China's actions mattered. They delayed announcing the epidemic - but once it was announced other countries, especially the US took almost no action util it had already spread.  I don't think an earlier announcement by china would have mattered. 

[DuranDuranfan]

I found this video very interesting....maybe that’s why their wet markets have more problems, even though other countries have them too.