We need illusions to keep living

[Birlow17]

So I saw this quote last night and it said, “love, power, peace, revenge, religion... everyone has to be drunk on something. Or else what reason is there to keep pushing on. Everyone is a slave to something.”

 

I think about this concept everyday. I think I’ve questioned everything throughout my life I no longer have anything I’m drunk on. I’m not drunk on money, power, love. I really have nothing which is why I guess life feels empty for me.
 

I started thinking about this show I’ve been watching lately. The main character was in a unrequited love situation for ten years. Ten years! You can either view this as romantic or dedicating yourself to a life of suffering. But I started thinking what if the reason he was in unrequited love for ten years was because that was the only driving thing he had in life?

 

It’s almost as if chasing something (despite it never happening) gave him the fuel to live. 
I feel like it was the character more so using his longing for this girl as an escape mechanism. It’s nice to chase things that seem perfect when in reality they aren’t.

 

another example I could give is how some people really have no life outside of work. They stay in and work late hours because they have nothing else exciting. So they overwork themselves and defend the company till their last breath. I use to think man what is wrong with these people but now I think I get it. We all need some kind of crutch to keep us going 

[Lord Jade Cross]

"Life is only worth living if it's worth the candle" as the saying goes. If you think it is, you keep holding the candle. If you think it isn't, you need only snuff it out.

 

 

[Scottthespy]

A crutch, a thing to chase, a purpose. Interchangeable really. I live for others because I have no personal drive, but there are people who my death (or terrible life) would hurt, and I are about those people enough to go through the paces. Once they're gone though? I honestly don't know what I'll do.


In general, there needs to be a reason for things. Sometimes that reason is abstract, sometimes its something solid and quantifiable, but there's got to be an answer to 'why am I doing this'. Most people don't need to chase or search for a reason, one simply exists that effects them. Family, career, a particular goal. It matters to them, it drives them whether they want it to or not. People who lack that intrinsic drive can sometimes decide on a drive, cling to it, tell themselves 'this is why, now don't question it and get moving'. There's no objective reason to exist, other than 'life exists to perpetuate itself', and that's a pointless cycle, not a real reason. 

[Pandark]

6 hours ago, Birlow17 said:

So I saw this quote last night and it said, “love, power, peace, revenge, religion... everyone has to be drunk on something. Or else what reason is there to keep pushing on. Everyone is a slave to something.”

 

I think about this concept everyday. I think I’ve questioned everything throughout my life I no longer have anything I’m drunk on. I’m not drunk on money, power, love. I really have nothing which is why I guess life feels empty for me.

I agree that we're all slaves to something. Some to instinct, some to their own mind. Instinct, pleasure and pain are empty. But emptiness isn't a bad thing. There is a kind of peace associated with realizing the emptiness in all natural phenomena.

 

1 hour ago, Moonman said:

There's no need for illusions when nature gives us everything we could possibly need.

On the other hand, perception is always flawed and incomplete. The mind just fills in the gaps and tells us we're seeing the full picture. What *do* we really need? The things required for survival? Other things? I need serenity. I need all the fighting in the universe to stop. I don't want to call it an illusion but maybe it is. But then maybe the fighting becomes no more than a dance to an aging soul.

[what the face]

17 hours ago, Birlow17 said:

everyone has to be drunk on something

OR the alternative,  sobriety.

 

Giving up our addictions is essential to fully becoming a mature adult human.  

All addictions:  chemical, emotional, physical, spiritual  whatever.

Most of us remain in a prolonged adolescent, less-than-adult state of development,  "drunk on something".

 

18 hours ago, Birlow17 said:

really have nothing which is why I guess life feels empty

Giving up addictions leaves a hole, an emptiness within the addict, 

nearly always.  Grieving the loss is essential and healing.

 

The image of feeling empty,  emptying the self,  creating space is so powerful you know?

It is by working from, in and thru that empty space we might find our adult purpose,

our soul.   

 

Nature abhors a vacuum.   

A blank page or canvas inspires the artist.   

Necessity is the mother of invention.

An empty space wants to be filled.

 

 

If we want to see the world clearly, to see ourselves in this world clearly, we have to

identify, process and drop our addictions. 

Then our sensory perceptions can be trusted to witness, as a practice

and to action, as a purpose. 

[uhtred]

In the end the sun will grow an destroy the earth - or even if humanity escapes the solar system, the universe will eventually wipe out all possible evidence of our existence (probably through the inflationary stage that is starting now).  Some absolute sense, NOTHING maters. 

 

That said for the tiny instance f time that we are alive, we might as well do the best that we can, because what have we got to lose? 

 

 

[Epitaph]

Ingrained biological imperatives keep us going. It's only in the most extreme cases that this is overridden when one's mental state reaches suicidal levels. I think it's erroneous to lump most of life's activities as crutches. Due to our adaptability, some people simply wander through life just because. A crutch is classified as a crutch because it becomes necessary to hold a person together into normality in some way that is not otherwise normal or standard functions.

 

The thing is, nobody is technically a slave. Everything that we do personally in our lives is a choice. If you so choose it, at any time you could remove yourself from life via suicide. But most people fear death, as life has some value to them. So they chase after what has value to them, either through examples given by society or what they themselves think is worth fighting for. Slavery implies lack of choice. We all have a choice on whether or not we wish to continue existing here, to do nothing at all, or something.

[Guest]

I don't understand how life is worth living without having a purpose in it.

 

If all you see is a cycle of bills, horrible job, and rinse and repeat, this could be dangerous. Never finding a way of beating that cycle, makes life painful and depressing to live.

 

Don't give such a person an actual purpose, and you're increasing suicide rates.

 

Many things you see in society, are to discourage suicide. Giving people something to look forward to, is one of them. 

 

From sleeping pills being individually wrapped in a foil sheet (vs dozens of pills you can just take rapidly), and much less stronger (they used to be a popular go to due to to their heavy barbiturate content that would kill you rather easily). 

 

Lotto to name another. A major deterrent for suicide, by giving people albeit unrealistic, something to look forward to. 

 

Main reason you see more lotto spots in poor neighborhoods, where suicides potentially would be far more rampant.

 

Same reason you will find more liquor stores in such areas, to name a couple things. 

 

Most would not be able to handle a life without a purpose, which is why covid-19 is very dangerous. 

 

Personally for me, it's why I spent so much energy to find love. 

 

It's why I always gave myself goals to achieve. 

 

I guess I know the "old me", and don't want to revisit that. 

 

I quit drugs and drinking and suicidal tendencies, when I decided to embrace peace, love and goals. 

 

Whatever works for the individual, but a life without those "illusions" is unbearable for most. 

[what the face]

We are all living through, and some of will be dying through this dark worldwide extinction event.

 

When fear occupies us we can fall into existential crisis

        and retreat to coping measures we have used before

        like habits and crutches and goals and fantasy.

        These may keep us alive, but may still be based in fear.

When awareness flows through us we can evaluate and learn of our situation

        and identify our emotions, and give up our compulsive actions

        and obsessions over what we can't control.

        These practices may help turn us from the dark.

When hope grows within us may we adapt and find our way to help

        with empathy and compassion.

        Then we can while assisting others maybe,

        all reach toward the light.

[Phantasmal Fingers]

If you want my opinion I refer you to the quote from Asanga in my signature. 

[Alawyn-Aebt]

If we don't set ourselves things to do, then I don't see the purpose of continuing to live.

 

If I didn't have things to look forward to or things I wanted to do I would die now. But I would hardly say it is always an illusion that keeps us from dying. I have a will, I am not saying if it is a free will or not, I don't want to get bogged down in that, but we all have a will. And most of us actually like exercising our will. We as humans like climbing hills, even if it is only to push a rock that invariably rolls back down. Sometimes that rock is just a rock, but sometimes that rock is somethings that has the possibility to make life better for all. This does not mean that the rock is an illusion - it does mean we can attach outsized importance to it - but it does not make the rock any less real.

[Phantasmal Fingers]

In my experience reality and illusion are not opposites, they are two sides of the same coin. The reality of illusion is the illusion of reality. 

[Cheshire-Cat]

It's literally my pets that keep me alive day to day and I've considered not getting more when they go so I'm finally released from having to stay alive. I think we do all need something to make it all seem worthwhile., otherwise whats the point?

[Birlow17]

On 4/3/2020 at 2:09 PM, Scottthespy said:

A crutch, a thing to chase, a purpose. Interchangeable really. I live for others because I have no personal drive, but there are people who my death (or terrible life) would hurt, and I are about those people enough to go through the paces. Once they're gone though? I honestly don't know what I'll do.


In general, there needs to be a reason for things. Sometimes that reason is abstract, sometimes its something solid and quantifiable, but there's got to be an answer to 'why am I doing this'. Most people don't need to chase or search for a reason, one simply exists that effects them. Family, career, a particular goal. It matters to them, it drives them whether they want it to or not. People who lack that intrinsic drive can sometimes decide on a drive, cling to it, tell themselves 'this is why, now don't question it and get moving'. There's no objective reason to exist, other than 'life exists to perpetuate itself', and that's a pointless cycle, not a real reason. 

Living for others is one reason to keep going. But honestly sometimes I feel it isn’t strong enough? Especially when we’re left to our own thoughts and by ourselves. Is the only reason we’re going through the motions for others? I guess this really depends on how close people are with their families. If you don’t see them often then living so you won’t hurt them doesn’t seem that powerful. 
 

I agree with your thoughts on life. I think having an intrinsic drive makes life more bearable 

[Birlow17]

On 4/3/2020 at 6:05 PM, Moonman said:

I don't agree, we don't need illusions at all. We need to face reality and be grateful for what it blesses us with.

 

I was hungry so I'm eating pancakes and drinking milk right now, I'm so fortunate to have this supper to satisfy my hunger, I really am. I'm listening to music whilst I'm eating too, how blessed I am to be alive to have this experience!

 

If you haven't already, look into the works of Marcus Aurelius, Seneca (On The Shortness Of Life by Seneca is one of my favourite books of all time) and do some exploration into Epicurus. There's no need for illusions when nature gives us everything we could possibly need.

I like this. But have you thought that momentarily pleasures are distractions as well? I feel happy in moments where I’m laughing or eating. But I don’t know if that’s enough to say that mundane things like that are enough to keep us here. 
 

I will look into this I’m a fan of Marcus Aurelius. I’m impressed with your mindset. I thought nature itself and just existing would be enough. But for some reason I feel empty without having that drive 

[Birlow17]

On 4/4/2020 at 8:01 AM, what the face said:

OR the alternative,  sobriety.

 

Giving up our addictions is essential to fully becoming a mature adult human.  

All addictions:  chemical, emotional, physical, spiritual  whatever.

Most of us remain in a prolonged adolescent, less-than-adult state of development,  "drunk on something".

 

Giving up addictions leaves a hole, an emptiness within the addict, 

nearly always.  Grieving the loss is essential and healing.

 

The image of feeling empty,  emptying the self,  creating space is so powerful you know?

It is by working from, in and thru that empty space we might find our adult purpose,

our soul.   

 

Nature abhors a vacuum.   

A blank page or canvas inspires the artist.   

Necessity is the mother of invention.

An empty space wants to be filled.

 

 

If we want to see the world clearly, to see ourselves in this world clearly, we have to

identify, process and drop our addictions. 

Then our sensory perceptions can be trusted to witness, as a practice

and to action, as a purpose. 

I really liked the analogy you used for this. When an addict gives up their addiction they feel empty. Seems lots of people are too afraid to drop their addiction. But at the same time I envy them for having something to keep them going that I can’t seem to lol

[Scottthespy]

1 minute ago, Birlow17 said:

Living for others is one reason to keep going. But honestly sometimes I feel it isn’t strong enough? Especially when we’re left to our own thoughts and by ourselves. Is the only reason we’re going through the motions for others? I guess this really depends on how close people are with their families. If you don’t see them often then living so you won’t hurt them doesn’t seem that powerful. 
 

I agree with your thoughts on life. I think having an intrinsic drive makes life more bearable 

I live with a few of the family I'm living for, so the stimulus is more pressing. I think having an intrinsic drive makes life actively fun and enjoyable, at least when you've got the first few layers of Maslow's Hierarchy  met. Having a drive that you actively chose makes things just 'bearable'. 

[Birlow17]

3 minutes ago, Scottthespy said:

Having a drive that you actively chose makes things just 'bearable'.

Well said. 

[Birlow17]

On 4/5/2020 at 10:13 AM, Alawyn-Aebt said:

If we don't set ourselves things to do, then I don't see the purpose of continuing to live.

 

If I didn't have things to look forward to or things I wanted to do I would die now. But I would hardly say it is always an illusion that keeps us from dying. I have a will, I am not saying if it is a free will or not, I don't want to get bogged down in that, but we all have a will. And most of us actually like exercising our will. We as humans like climbing hills, even if it is only to push a rock that invariably rolls back down. Sometimes that rock is just a rock, but sometimes that rock is somethings that has the possibility to make life better for all. This does not mean that the rock is an illusion - it does mean we can attach outsized importance to it - but it does not make the rock any less real.

This was a really good explanation. So I guess it’s the balance of looking forward to things and being realistic. That’s really hard for some people to differentiate. Especially when it comes to unrequited love or the idea that all will be good once you get married and start a family. Some people get those things and realize that those things they chased for so long wasn’t really a happily ever after. It almost seems like we’re chasing eternal happiness when it doesn’t exist don’t you think? 
 

 

[Birlow17]

8 hours ago, Cheshire-Cat said:

It's literally my pets that keep me alive day to day and I've considered not getting more when they go so I'm finally released from having to stay alive. I think we do all need something to make it all seem worthwhile., otherwise whats the point?

Yeah I agree what’s the point. I’ve also wanted pets for this reason. The thing about animals that are pets and humans is that we live longer. Have you thought after they go, you are in need of another purpose rather then leaving as well? 

[what the face]

On 4/8/2020 at 3:27 AM, CBC said:

I feel like I can't tolerate being alive if I'm not doing something to fill that void in the core of who I am

Like you wrote

 

On 4/8/2020 at 3:27 AM, CBC said:

I'll be entirely honest and open here and say this

 

This IS the work.    For most of us anyway.

As we "struggle" to fill that void, that struggle becomes our "being alive".

And other facets of our lives, ourselves can become lost or left behind.

 

It's in all of us, with honesty and clear sight I think, the capacity to face the void.

Even if briefly at first, before returning to our familiar dopamine mediated filling it in, covering it over.

A guide or therapist or elder can help us here.

 

WE can with practice accept and own the void, that part of who we are.

 

 

 

 

 

[Anthracite_Impreza]

I have imaginary brothers I care about more than my bio parents, sue me.

[SorryNotSorry]

On 4/3/2020 at 10:17 AM, Birlow17 said:

So I saw this quote last night and it said, “love, power, peace, revenge, religion... everyone has to be drunk on something. Or else what reason is there to keep pushing on. Everyone is a slave to something.”

 

I think about this concept everyday. I think I’ve questioned everything throughout my life I no longer have anything I’m drunk on. I’m not drunk on money, power, love. I really have nothing which is why I guess life feels empty for me.

For me it's been the illusion of a better quality of life—the kind of life I'd never feel the need to take a vacation from.

 

But circumstances being what they've been, for me it's been all sacrifice and no reward. Part of it is due to the caste system here in the US, part of it is due to my Asperger's, and part of it is due to my deteriorating physical health... but the life goals to which I was a slave since my teens seem less attainable than ever. Yeah, I bought into the illusion, but now my perspective has changed and I'm pretty much just waiting to die.