Should CDC Encourage People to Wear Masks in Public?

[Skycaptain]

All well and good saying "wear masks etc". 

What when masks and sanitisers are made of unobtanium. When A&E staff haven't got sufficient PPE to do their jobs properly, and there's a greater demand than production ability, should you then divert supplies to the general public? Unfortunately factories are possibly more at risk of sudden outbreaks of the virus simply because of the number of people in any given space. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Homer said:

That being said, leave the masks to the professionals who need them.

This is the main reason the CDC has admitted to mulling over stating masks are now recommended. Healthcare professionals need N95 rated masks, to protect you. Some are reusing masks, or "making do" with what they have. Insanely dangerous, since they are front and center around sick people.

 

My market here, has a mass shortage of masks. Many were panic buying, and clearing out shelves many week before we saw our first case.

 

I had brought back plenty when I was in Hong Kong earlier this year, as had a feeling the airports on my return would be filled with sick people.

 

I've nearly run out, so ordered 1, 000 more from family of mine in Hong Kong, with Taiwanese medical ties with regards to business partnerships (in Taiwan, they're dealing with an opposite issue--mass surplus of masks, and I've used masks made there and the quality and stringent standards are very high).

 

Personally, I want to have masks available for my branch when we re-open, available for free (hence the method to the madness).

 

I won't put any opinions towards them, nor encourage their use. I just want them there, with signage on how to safely discard.

 

Some businesses just cannot close (ours as an example, is considered an essential service, but we chose to close anyways, for staff safety while we re-think our safety measures moving forwards), like delivery (and sadly, many of such employers are poorly equipping their employees) when they are our economy's current life line, while health care professionals keep it safe.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

See... I just can't justify police getting involved at all.

This is where we disagree. If the government is putting forth social orders to avoid mass assembly, and many do so anyways, to me this justifies police intervention.

 

I remember seeing a pastor (in the US) defying orders, and putting the health of hundreds at risk to allow his service to carry on, anyways.

 

This, along with telling people (who obviously paid to see him), that the covid-19 was cured as he had prayed for it.

 

To me, this is a reckless disregard for public safety, and this was fully for profit which makes it more disgusting.

 

He was arrested, and I feel this was the appropriate action to take. None of the attendees were even touched, as he was the one who abused of his positioning of power.

 

6 hours ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

the more you threaten people with force the more they're gonna rebel

I disagree.

 

The Canadian government threatened to use force if necessary, and the vast majority of our cities, are empty when you go to popular tourist zones. Of course, you will get the small pockets of defiant people, but this has been minimal vs the US.

 

I think if your leadership is unclear, and flip flopping and constantly changing their tune, their orders will hold far less weight (main reason so many rebelled on Trump, as he has zero credibility as he has no clue what he is doing), than one that keeps you informed and explains to you why they are doing something. More importantly, being clear and concise on its duration.

 

This is the last moment to keep people in the dark. This creates far more anxiety and panic, and people will lose patience vs knowing where the light at the end of the tunnel is (or at least knowing what they should expect).

 

6 hours ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

I am flat out opposed to the law getting involved

Our law's involvement has been mild.

 

I was in China weeks ago, where people were literally having their homes raided and violently arrested for failure to comply to quarantine orders. Mandatory 6 month jail sentence. No questions asked.

 

I was in Hong Kong, which is pushing to become more like Beijing, which would be your worst nightmare. Face recognizing software in high tech CCTV cameras, the police use to quickly identify you, as the cameras are everywhere.

 

Most government IDs are chipped, so police can simply walk past a crowd with a scanner and identify you.

 

I know people who accidentally littered, walked a block, and were pulled into a police vehicle by half a dozen cops, in terms of how they "snatch you". Keeps people in line, when they witness it.

 

You literally feel that paranoia knowing how meticulously you're being watched considering they take a digital scan of your face at the airport.

 

Wild how effective that it is, however.

 

I do agree with you, that losing that level of freedom would be unacceptable. I however, feel what is happening now is not that or at least isn't in western society in general.

[iff]

11 hours ago, Skycaptain said:

All well and good saying "wear masks etc". 

What when masks and sanitisers are made of unobtanium. When A&E staff haven't got sufficient PPE to do their jobs properly, and there's a greater demand than production ability, should you then divert supplies to the general public? Unfortunately factories are possibly more at risk of sudden outbreaks of the virus simply because of the number of people in any given space. 

This is it for me: leave the masks for those who need them. Necessary staff and people with pre existing respiratory issues

 

A thing that annoys me is those who have littered the plastic gloves on to ground and into bushes

[Dreamer23]

Should they encourage people to wear N95 masks? Absolutely not!

Regular face covering? Sure, go ahead! It'll at least make it a little harder for carriers to spread germs, and there's no supply shortage on those.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Dreamer23 said:

Should they encourage people to wear N95 masks? Absolutely not!

There are mass shortages here anyways, so the only place you'll have a chance is online (which you'll be hard-pressed to find any in stock). If you're lucky, you have business partners overseas like I do, and order like that.

 

Otherwise, I agree with the CDC on principle, for holding off in encouraging this. Same reason Singapore has encouraged masks to be work just like us, by emergency staff (due to practicality based on shortages).

 

Luckily people like her are a rare thing, but this is what the CDC is looking to avoid. I don't blame them.

 

For those who didn't see the above linked video, its of a Chinese woman in Florida, who is video taping herself bragging about buying an entire pickup truck bed worth of masks, so that the "Americans don't get any". Literally travels hundreds of miles to clean out as many stores as she possibly can.

 

God forbid she gets sick, and needs medical care, where they are facing a major shortage and can't help her or one of her loved ones. That's Karma, my friends.

 

Sad thing, is she will just amplify the backlash some Asians are facing in the US (unfairly).

[Zagadka]

The problem is that for masks to be effective, they need to seal and they need to be replaced regularly. Most of the masks people are using are ineffective and I worry give a false sense of security. Probably better than nothing, but not exactly effective.

[gisiebob]

1 hour ago, Zagadka said:

The problem is that for masks to be effective, they need to seal and they need to be replaced regularly. Most of the masks people are using are ineffective and I worry give a false sense of security. Probably better than nothing, but not exactly effective.

I think if the CDC does decide to advise everyday mask wearing it needs to be VERY clear about the reasoning, which is to prevent people who are unaware that they are infected from infecting others, and for this purpose reusable cloth masks are somewhat effective and the only thing that we would realistically be able to supply the entire population with.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, gisiebob said:

I think if the CDC does decide to advise everyday mask wearing it needs to be VERY clear about the reasoning

They've decided to recommend cloth masks (whenever one leaves home), and will release details about it shortly.

[Guest]

They should be clear. Buy cloth only. Online, only.

 

Clear guidelines on how to wash, dry, and store to ensure all are on the same page.

[Guest]

Or, buy from a reputable source, noting that two ply masks offer the best level of protection with an outside layer that is of a thicker and tougher material. Best yet, pick your own CDC approved fabrics, and make it a house project in making your own.

 

Kind of funny, that in the span of days literally, I went from being laughed at by the odd people when I did my groceries in my cloth mask to now many if not most/all wearing them on some occasions.

[Guest]

For me, I got coughed on by a cashier here and there, and you realize why this is spreading like crazy in western society. People being asymptomatic, will give many a false sense of security.

 

This coupled with the government realizing many won't listen to the strict "stay home" orders.

 

You're better off encouraging something that keeps them safe, anyways.

[daveb]

Here's an article from the New York Times about the Spanish flu epidemic in 1918. It has photos from back then showing various workers wearing masks.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/nyregion/spanish-flu-nyc-virus.html

 

(if you can't access the article here are is one of the pics, female train conductors - you can find more by googling for Spanish flu masks and checking the images)

 

[Zagadka]

It is probably a good idea, as long as you aren't wasteful. Especially if you worry you are ill. If you're going to cough, you'd better cover up, even if it is just allergies.

[Guest]

As many people as possible should be wearing masks because there are asymptomatic carriers who are spreading the virus unknowingly. I have a reusable one that my stepmom sewed for me and I'm going to make a ton for a nursing home a friend of mine works at. I found that if you can't sew yourself one, what you can do is take a bandana and two hair ties to secure it to your ears. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, daveb said:

Here's an article from the New York Times about the Spanish flu epidemic in 1918.

I am unfortunately unsubscribed. 

 

Crazy how things change from one generation to the next. 

 

I am curious where we became a society that shunned facial protection. 

 

Asian societies that are containing this, can for once look at us like we are the idiots as we struggle mightily to contain the spread. 

 

We have entitled people still having mass assemblies, and many more ignoring the warnings. 

 

You can crack down all you wish. You can't mass arrest tens of thousands. 

[Guest]

On 4/2/2020 at 12:10 AM, Anthracite_Impreza said:

I am flat out opposed to the law getting involved at all

Be thankful you don't live in the Philippines, where an exasperated president Rodrigo Duterte ordered any violently disobedient folk to be "shot dead" (following a protest due to lack of resources that got dicey).

 

Most law enforcement don't want to arrest or violence. They just want public safety. 

 

I think masks should be made available to the masses. 

 

If more wear them, it allows you to safely relax the rules. 

 

Otherwise the moment you do, is you facing secondary and third waves of infections.

[daveb]

8 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

I am unfortunately unsubscribed. 

I am not a subscriber and never was. Some sites are letting people view coronavirus news freely. (could be restricted by country, of course, too)

 

Anyway, the main point was the similarities and things like the pic I posted. People can find similar information by googling other sources.  

[sga]

i think it's difficult to get many people to pay attention at all, so the directive really does need to be simple, e.g. "stay inside as much as possible, wear gloves and a mask when going out". some people barely pay attention to that.  

 

in terms of the type of mask, i agree that the medical grade masks should be prioritized to those on the front lines such as medical personnel; for the general public going to the grocer, you can wear a cloth mask which is not as effective but is still better than nothing, and you won't be jeopardizing the supply for someone who needs the medical grade masks.

 

that's my two cents...

[Skycaptain]

Whilst advising people to cover their faces is prudent, advising people to wear medical grade face masks ought not be done until there is a sufficient supply for all healthcare workers globally to be properly equipped. What, not just the CDC but all similar organisations should be doing is demanding that governments get any appropriate factories which are currently on shutdown to start making the necessary materials. 

[sga]

5 minutes ago, Skycaptain said:

Whilst advising people to cover their faces is prudent, advising people to wear medical grade face masks ought not be done until there is a sufficient supply for all healthcare workers globally to be properly equipped. 

absolutely agree.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Skycaptain said:

Whilst advising people to cover their faces is prudent, advising people to wear medical grade face masks ought not be done until there is a sufficient supply for all healthcare workers globally to be properly equipped.

I agree. The issue, is many have gone ahead and stock piled masks, especially the N95 ones even before these announcements were made. In my market alone, even hospitals are facing shortages due to this. People likely also are going to those said hospitals, to hoard their masks as many distribute them at their entrances.

 

The reason places like Taiwan are doing so well with this, is the exact same one many countries will have to look in the mirror when the dust settles. Careful planning, years ahead.

 

The moment they heard there was a growing pandemic in China? They ramped up production of face masks (along with other essentials), once they saw it started to spread to Hong Kong. They were overly prepared, and calm was maintained due to this.

 

Many other societies failed, in that they handled the pandemic via reacting to the issues, vs planning ahead of them. Either you're buying yourselves time, or are shortening its supply, by running behind it.

[daveb]

The US could have been better prepared (and I think would have been, but who can say for sure) if not for our current president (who apparently has made it his mission to dismantle or dismiss everything his predecessor did and can't seem to listen to experts).  

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, daveb said:

The US could have been better prepared (and I think would have been, but who can say for sure) if not for our current president (who apparently has made it his mission to dismantle or dismiss everything his predecessor did and can't seem to listen to experts).  

The sad part, is your death toll and infection rate would likely be far lower, if Hillary Clinton was your president. This was a former lawyer, and love her or hate her, she was the type to always dot her i's, and cross her t's. In times like this, that is the type of leader that you need.

 

If I require something done, that requires attention to detail--I pick her 10 times out of 10.

 

The massive blunder, was Trump dismissing the severity, as this spread like wild fire. Guaranteed the infection rate is in the millions in the US. The numbers posted, only show those who likely felt sick enough to get tested, or worse even--those who had access to testing to begin with.

 

I truly pity his advisor who finally got through to him. Likely has the patience of a saint.

[Dreamer23]

Well, sure sure, our death toll would be lower with Clinton and the US would've been better prepared and reacted faster, but on the other hand, how would I know who's number one on Facebook or other essential facts that Trump tells us?!

Gotta weigh your pros and your cons! xD

[Guest]

Plus Trump is more entertaining. Obama was harder to make fun of, made more challenging by his self-deprecating sense of humor (and trivial things, like competence). Which comedy show wants that? Boring!