Should CDC Encourage People to Wear Masks in Public?

[Guest]

Many experts seem to be torn on the very subject.

 

The common denominator, is that masks are useless at protecting you from a person with an illness that isn't wearing one. They protect you, if they are wearing them.

 

With this in mind, and the volatility of covid-19 (along with the many who have spread it while asymptomatic)--wouldn't it make sense to encourage all to wear them?

 

CDC as an example, was adamant on not wearing them, unless you're sick.

 

Now, they're about to do a 180 on that very opinion. However, to avoid mass shortages, is considering recommending home made cloth masks, instead of the N95 masks desperately needed by emergency personnel.

 

Many of the Asian markets globally, have seen sharp declines in infection rates.

 

The only real thing they are doing differently, is donning masks in many of those countries, across an entire population. In fact, some of these countries weren't even encouraging social distancing.

 

Those who have seen the sharpest declines? They're practicing social distancing, on top of it, along with banning crowds over 10.

 

The common argument, is of course--masks can be far more dangerous if not disposed of properly.

 

Social distancing can have catastrophic results, if it isn't being adhered to, strictly. It also can backfire in a setting where a cashier who is sick, is serving you far less than the recommended 6' distance. I can only speak for my city, but these settings, is where massive volumes of spread have occurred here. This, or being approached broadside while adhering on your end, by someone asking for directions completely not caring about the guidelines.

 

Some stores have rapidly ordered plexiglass windows to protect highly vulnerable staff. Many cashiers at places like pharmacies, felt highly unsafe, due to the sheer volume of people not observing the social distancing while shopping, ignoring in some stores, clearly marked zones.

 

Many are realizing, you need to protect yourself. You can't expect others to protect you.

 

Are there better solutions?

 

Should CDC encourage people to wear masks in public?

[Guest]

Masks don't protect you, they protect others from you.

 

 

Edit: stay indoors... that means, staying inside. You know, not under the blue sky?... 

oh, groceries? Yea, go get them, you don't need the whole family outside for that either. Go by yourself. Avoid as much contact.

[Grumpy Alien]

Short answer: I don’t know.

 

Longer answer: I wouldn’t mind if I were asked to wear a mask in public but there’s a few reasons I have not been wearing a mask.

 

Masks should be single use. Once you take off a mask, it should be properly discarded. If the mask catches germs on it, it might have protected you from inhaling it but it’s now on the outer surface of the mask. Because of this, you need to avoid touching the mask without gloves. If you’re wearing a mask, you should also be wearing gloves. When you’re wearing gloves, they should always be the last PPE you take off. It also needs to have a proper seal like the correct size N95 in order to protect you from airborne illnesses. Having enough masks to truly be effective is taking them away from the people who actually need them most. The people who definitely need to be wearing masks are people showing symptoms of COVID-19 and those who are caring for them, such as healthcare workers. There are also going to patients in hospitals who need airborne precautions when entering their room who do not have COVID-19. Anyone entering those rooms needs to wear an appropriate mask as well. Surgery. You need to wear masks in surgery to protect both you and the patient. Masks are in dire need in the healthcare industry right now. Buying them for personal use is selfish. Hospitals and health facilities are having massive shortages which is incredibly worrying. If you don’t need a mask, please do not purchase any masks or steal masks if you see them at a medical facility.

 

The best protection is by distancing yourself from others and practicing good hand hygiene. Social distancing, hand washing, carrying hand sanitizer, wearing gloves in public. Don’t touch what you don’t have to. Don’t leave the house for non essentials like going out to eat or just buying a lottery ticket. Wash your hands wash your hands WASH YOUR GODDAMN HANDS. If you don’t have hand sanitizer to carry outside of your house, don’t touch your face. It’s not foolproof but adding a mask to that routine isn’t proven to help any further. I could be wrong, as I don’t pay a huge amount of attention to the updates but as far as I was aware, COVID-19 is spread by primarily by droplets. Droplets stay on surfaces. An airborne illness stays in the air. There is a possibility that under some circumstances, COVID-19 can be airborne but it’s much less likely. (See above ways of protection and quarantining yourself at home and calling for help if you have symptoms or if there’s a vulnerable person in your household.) 

 

So yeah. Masks, if appropriately sealed around the face and used properly, certainly don’t hurt. But most people won’t have access to fitted masks and won’t know how to dispose of PPE. There’s also the mask shortage issue which is the primary concern. And it may cause a false sense of security, making people using them feel safer and possibly thinking they can relax on things like social distancing.

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, Phoenix the II said:

Masks don't protect you, they protect others from you.

What if someone sick, isn't wearing one, that chooses to go in public. Better yet, someone asymptomatic.

This is not influenza. This is spreading like wild fire, because people who don't even know they are sick, are spreading it within their communities--one of the worst forms of spreading for this virus.

 

That very last point, is why the CDC is rethinking their not wearing a mask for all (or encouraging it).

 

41 minutes ago, Phoenix the II said:

Edit: stay indoors

What about those who work in the front lines, and have no choice but to go out?

 

The issue, is the contradiction. Don't panic bulk buy, yet don't go out to do your groceries once a week, because you're being mindful of others by limiting your purchasing?

 

43 minutes ago, Phoenix the II said:

Go by yourself.

This is what most people do. My point, is the community spread. I.E Cashier going to work, asymptomatic, and has covid-19.

 

You're minding your distance--person in line behind you, is a foot away from you.

 

You can't control your surroundings, other than going in off peak time frames. You still can't control what others do.

 

Social distancing barely will curb the spike of infections. It won't stop them, or dramatically slow them down, due to the points I have made.

 

So clearly social distancing is barely even a band-aid.

 

It also is highly unrealistic for again, someone who has no choice but to go to work to avoid being in the shoes of those waiting behind major backlogs to get employment insurance, when you had a steady cheque.

 

Not all people work in non-essential settings.

[Guest]

You can't stop it, slowing it down is what's being aimed for.

3 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

What if someone sick, isn't wearing one, that chooses to go in public. Better yet, someone asymptomatic.

Stay indoors. Again, sick, asympotomatic, or healthy. (Get to a hospital, if it's, very sick)

 

Did I mention, stay indoors yet?

 

Quote

What about those who work in the front lines, and have no choice but to go out?

Yes, you are helping them by... staying inside!

 

 

 

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Kimchi Peanut said:

So yeah. Masks, if appropriately sealed around the face and used properly, certainly don’t hurt.

If everyone is wearing one, a regular mask is just fine. The point being, someone asymptomatic is no longer community spreading. Something you will see more of, in western society as numbers spike with no end in sight.

 

24 minutes ago, Kimchi Peanut said:

Because of this, you need to avoid touching the mask without gloves.

Wrong.

 

Gloves are ideal, but aren't necessary. One must adapt to the settings they find themselves under.

 

You can use hand sanitizer prior to careful removal from behind your ears (the loops) on both sides, and ensuring it is placed inside a garbage can ideally with a closed lid (always ideal to avoid to spread infected specimens, whether it is masks, tissue paper you blew your nose with, etc). Only additional step here of course, is sanitizing your hands once more, when done. Preferably washing them, but either is more than suitable if your hands aren't soiled.

 

Mask removal isn't that complicated.

 

I've seen even doctors remove their masks improperly. That's the issue, but making it seem more complicated than it is, would make someone who is considering wearing one when sick, avoid it out of unnecessary fear.

 

Same applies for reusable cloth masks. Only recommendation, being you immediately hand wash it after use, separately from other clothing items.

 

The only major no-no, is touching the front of the mask, as this is how you'll for sure spread the germs.

 

This is common sense.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Phoenix the II said:

You can't stop it, slowing it down is what's being aimed for.

How quickly you slow it down, will depend on how many adhere to the guidelines, and how many safety measures are in place. A mask, per CDC, worn by all, could not hurt when you consider this.

 

15 minutes ago, Phoenix the II said:

Stay indoors.

For some, this is impossible. I.E Nurse, or any other essential service serving their communities from the front lines.

Also, being indoors, doesn't eliminate the risk, for jobs such as a bus driver (or truck driver, which is often times what is now keeping a city fed), where many cities have seen a steady spread.

 

15 minutes ago, Phoenix the II said:

Yes, you are helping them by... staying inside!

That's my point. What if your line of work, is considered essential?

 

Not all have a luxury of being under shut down. Many limit their travel from work, to home, when its the case. But you can't shut down an entire city's services. This is impossible.

[Guest]

Point I'm making is that there will always be idiots that don't listen to the guidelines until you make them binding laws.

 

Why not encourage all to protect themselves, vs social distancing, which relies far too heavily on the ability to do just that.

 

When economies are reopened, you will see secondary waves of the virus, for the simple fact, that social distancing is very difficult on public transit. Very difficult, in an elevator.

 

Many settings, where those in western society will find themselves.

[Guest]

I share the concerns...

 

Just do your part... by staying indoors!  

[RoseGoesToYale]

Hypothetical scenario: Let's say we have a population. 50% of the population is uninfected, the other 50% is infected (may or may be showing symptoms). Now let's assume 50% are typical folks who adhere correctly to health guidelines, and the other 50% are uncaring blockheads who incorrectly follow guidelines. The CDC encourages everybody to wear masks. We already know that wearing masks are shown to help prevent the spread if the wearer is infected. So 100% of the population wears masks. Now lets say:

 

1. 25% of the typical folks are uninfected

2. 25% of the blockheads are uninfected

3. 25% of the typical folks are infected

4. 25% of the blockheads are infected

 

Let's assume wearing a mask does not prevent you from contracting the virus. All of the blockheads wearing masks will sanitize/dispose of them incorrectly, but still have their faces covered when they go out. That means only 25% of the population (infected blockheads) pose the biggest threat at increasing transmission to others, especially if they fail to follow other distancing/hygiene guidelines. The uninfected typical folks pose almost no threat of transmission. The uninfected blockheads pose little threat of virus transmission (but remain at high risk for contracting the virus if they go to an infected area or meet infected people). Infected typical folks pose some threat, but less (because the mask is helping prevent transmission) than without a mask.

 

And even if all the other groups fail, the infected typical folks are still going through proper procedure and preventing their infection from spreading by wearing masks properly, or a 25% reduction in overall population transmit-ability.

 

If we can reduce transmission rates by even 20% by more people wearing masks, we'll still be in better shape than currently. I would say a CDC recommendation is warranted. Education from them about proper mask-wearing procedure will be crucial.

[Guest]

Many that shun masks, are in societies that have found it impossible to contain the virus. Shunning experts in Asia, that are in markets that have done an exemplary job at not only containing but also dramatically dropping infection rates.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Phoenix the II said:

Just do your part... by staying indoors!  

I am. However, I am not panic buying meaning my rations end after a couple weeks, max. Meaning, I have to go out--or stockpile, and be selfish to those who need the items as much as I do.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, RoseGoesToYale said:

Education from them about proper mask-wearing procedure will be crucial.

I would have to agree, but proper removal isn't as complex as some of their specialist state. You could easily teach an infant to do it.

[Emery.]

It makes sense to me. It’s like with dropping litter in the street. If everyone cooperates on something low effort, things go smoother. 

[LeChat]

1 hour ago, Phoenix the II said:

...oh, groceries? Yea, go get them, you don't need the whole family outside for that either. Go by yourself. Avoid as much contact.

Thanks, for the video.

 

Also, there are some organizations that are volunteering to drop off food at people's homes (on their doorstep) or get groceries for them (for those who are sick with the virus and have to be quarantined at home).

[Anthracite_Impreza]

If you wanna wear one, do. If you don't, don't. If they only work when you have the virus there's no point to them anyway unless you're infected, in which case you should be at home anyway, but whatever helps you sleep better.

 

1 hour ago, Phoenix the II said:

Just do your part... by staying indoors!  

The world cannot shut down for a virus. How do you expect to stay fed, powered, clean and entertained if no one goes outside? My father's a bin man, if he stops his job you end up under a pile of rubbish causing even more disease. You want the lights to stay on? Someone's gotta work in a power plant. You want food? Someone's gotta grow it, distribute it and serve it. You want to carry on dicking about on AVEN? Someone's gotta be in the internet server buildings. You wanna not die if you have a heart attack? You need paramedics, nurses, doctors, porters, cafe staff, cleaners, technicians and doubtless jobs I've forgot or don't even know about. You want your cat to not die if they get ill? Someone's gotta do the vet-version of all those things. People without cars? They need bus drivers, train drivers, taxis, just so they don't starve to death.

 

You are massively oversimplifying how the world works.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

The world cannot shut down for a virus. How do you expect to stay fed, powered, clean and entertained if no one goes outside? My father's a bin man, if he stops his job you end up under a pile of rubbish causing even more disease. You want the lights to stay on? Someone's gotta work in a power plant. You want food? Someone's gotta grow it, distribute it and serve it. You want to carry on dicking about on AVEN? Someone's gotta be in the internet server buildings. You wanna not die if you have a heart attack? You need paramedics, nurses, doctors, porters, cafe staff, cleaners, technicians and doubtless jobs I've forgot or don't even know about. You want your cat to not die if they get ill? Someone's gotta do the vet-version of all those things.

 

You are massively undersimplifying how the world works.

Are you in one of those jobs?

 

No? Stay indoors....

 

Just for the time being, this isn't forever  

 

*walks out of thread*

[Anthracite_Impreza]

38 minutes ago, Phoenix the II said:

Are you in one of those jobs?

 

No? Stay indoors....

 

Just for the time being, this isn't forever  

 

*walks out of thread*

Yeah you keep saying it, we get it. Doesn't change the fact it isn't as simple as you're making out. I expect a spate of suicides due to mental health going down the shitter due to being forced into staying away from everyone. There is far more complexity to this than "just stay indoors".

[Guest]

1 hour ago, LeChat said:

Also, there are some organizations that are volunteering to drop off food at people's homes (on their doorstep) or get groceries for them (for those who are sick with the virus and have to be quarantined at home).

I can only speak for my market, but these are so overwhelmed, that the backlog is causing delays of up to, or more than a week for your groceries.

 

Some groceries are easier to buy bi-weekly or so, via these means. If you live with others, staples like milk, are a little more challenging.

 

I however, have seen the above work very well in cities like Wuhan, where those who were fully quarantined, had no choice but to accept deliveries at their door steps.

 

39 minutes ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

there's no point to them anyway unless you're infected

Tell that to a health care professional. There are levels to masks. The appropriate ones, can help protect you even if you're not infected. A regular disposable one for reasons cited above, cannot. However, this changes in a society where everyone is wearing one, anyways.

 

The CDC is indecisive on the matter, as data showcases their take on this is wrong, with the insanely transmissible covid-19, throwing their theories out the door.

 

Social distancing is not enough, unless you enforce it with the level of firmness seen in China. Just not something that would fly in a free society filled with entitled people who will do something because they can and the consequences don't deter any other action.

 

40 minutes ago, Phoenix the II said:

Just for the time being, this isn't forever  

This isn't how an economy works. More specifically, in a country like the US or similar.

 

We're a consumer-driven society. Meaning, people need to consume, for it to function. People need to prepare items for consumption, to fuel it. You collapse such an economy, otherwise. Look at Venezuela, if you want to know how appetizing a collapsed economy, and worthless tenders are for social order.

 

You're essentially eradicating small businesses (and crushing what makes your economy strong--the middle class), by stating 2 to 3 months of closures, is something sensible.

 

You then create a deeper problem, when people have no money, and no food. Look at Italy's social unrest, to give you an idea.

 

Its not sustainable.

 

You need to adapt to the situation, and not further damage your economy.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

3 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Just not something that would fly in a free society filled with entitled people who will do something because they can and the consequences don't deter any other action.

I'm fucking glad it wouldn't fly, I don't want to live in a dictatorship thanks. It's already gone too far.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

I don't want to live in a dictatorship thanks.

I agree, but people need consequences for their own good. Public assemblies still happening in the US, is exactly why they will reach 50, 000 deaths by end of April, if not worse.

 

Freedom of choice, poor leadership and lack of common sense is a deadly mix.

 

Masks would make it a tad better. I'm just saying...

[Anthracite_Impreza]

4 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

I agree, but people need consequences for their own good. Public assemblies still happening in the US, is exactly why they will reach 50, 000 deaths by end of April, if not worse.

 

Freedom of choice, poor leadership and lack of common sense is a deadly mix.

 

Masks would make it a tad better. I'm just saying...

Look, I don't condone people going around shamelessly coughing all over the place, going to places where vulnerable people are unnecessarily, putting unnecessary strains on the health system but I absolutely will not stand by having people arrested for daring to go outside their own front gate because they're going stir-raving crazy at home. I will not support people being arrested for having gatherings in their own homes, or going to visit their loved ones (with their permission). That is fucking 1984 territory and I cannot, in good conscience, support that. Call me an uncaring selfish dickhead if you like, or maybe think that people might have genuine concerns with the level of freedom being taken away from us with no guarantee it will be given back. A friend who is an ex-pat from Hungary just yesterday told me their "prime minister" has essentially said no one can challenge him for leadership now because "strong and stable leadership is vital in these troubled times". You think that's gonna get revoked when it's over? Will it fuck. He's dictator for life now with the excuse of coronavirus.

 

Is anyone at least understanding my concerns, even if you don't agree?

[Paxcat]

36 minutes ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

Look, I don't condone people going around shamelessly coughing all over the place, going to places where vulnerable people are unnecessarily, putting unnecessary strains on the health system but I absolutely will not stand by having people arrested for daring to go outside their own front gate because they're going stir-raving crazy at home. I will not support people being arrested for having gatherings in their own homes, or going to visit their loved ones (with their permission). That is fucking 1984 territory and I cannot, in good conscience, support that. Call me an uncaring selfish dickhead if you like, or maybe think that people might have genuine concerns with the level of freedom being taken away from us with no guarantee it will be given back. A friend who is an ex-pat from Hungary just yesterday told me their "prime minister" has essentially said no one can challenge him for leadership now because "strong and stable leadership is vital in these troubled times". You think that's gonna get revoked when it's over? Will it fuck. He's dictator for life now with the excuse of coronavirus.

 

Is anyone at least understanding my concerns, even if you don't agree?

Look this is a time of great uncertainty and everyone is scared and anxious right now. 

 

My country is currently in a national lock-down, if you have questions just ask. 

 

[Anthracite_Impreza]

5 minutes ago, Paxcat said:

Look this is a time of great uncertainty and everyone is scared and anxious right now. 

 

My country is currently in a national lock-down, if you have questions just ask. 

 

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. My country is also in a national lockdown and the only thing I'm scared of is how dystopian and repressive the whole thing's getting.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

Is anyone at least understanding my concerns, even if you don't agree?

Many leaders and countries seeing opportunity in this global panic, are posturing for influence among other things. 

 

Countless leaders have overstepped their powers, to obtain greater social control. 

 

I definitely see your concern. 

 

Depending on the country, that concern is more real in some than others. 

 

I agree with you in that, if I want to walk to my grocery store to re-stock up vs driving, me getting arrested is pure bullshit considering am not spreading this and am wearing a protective mask while I do my groceries on top of socially distancing. 

 

I even add to it. I never go to a cashier in times like these. Self checkout only to minimize risk to me and others. 

 

Am already seeing vigilantes not understanding the order in my country for one, and calling cops. 

 

You are allowed to do your groceries here. One just must practice social distancing. I have seen police crack down heavily on this. I agree with that. 

 

People refusing to socially distance in public deserve fines and eventually jail time for its disregard. 

 

But to tell me I can't do groceries a couple times a month, yet isn't sensible to stockpile? 

[Homer]

There is a HUGE difference between "stockpiling" as in "having a reasonable amount of groceries at home to get you through a week or two" and panic buying. Nobody needs umpteen rolls of toilet paper, 50 pounds of flour or 20 cases of Mountain Dew.

 

That being said, leave the masks to the professionals who need them.

[Paxcat]

I guess, I am not having the same experience, it's scary but the fact that people are agreeing doing this to protect one another is comforting. 

 

Police are being lenient on those that do break lock-down rules because this is all new, I know people that have even organised street walks that have been approved by the government. There is more food and supplies in the stores then before the lock-down was declared and it's stopped people from panic buying.  There have been several government packages that are trying to make sure people are getting paid.  Will the economy be impacted long term, yes but if it prevents hundreds of thousands of people dying then it's worth it. 

 

I do have different beliefs from you in terms of being prevented from socialising by the government, because in some cases it is the most efficient way to slow the spread of the disease. Will some corrupt systems take advantage of the situation, yes. Have some systems used extreme powers to enforce quarantine, yes. Is this wrong and scary, yes and I do understand your concern over that.

 

I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to be rude or anything. 

[Anthracite_Impreza]

29 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

One just must practice social distancing. I have seen police crack down heavily on this. I agree with that. 

 

People refusing to socially distance in public deserve fines and eventually jail time for its disregard. 

See... I just can't justify police getting involved at all. To me it's far too police state and I don't trust coppers anyway. It also backfires, cos the more you threaten people with force the more they're gonna rebel, the more pissed off they're gonna get. I am flat out opposed to the law getting involved at all except in places like hospitals, care homes, schools, but that's illegal anyway.

 

@Paxcat Yes we are clearly having different experiences with this because to me it feels like everyone's panicking for no reason. There's a massive difference between "let's be careful" and "holy shit the world is ending no more going outside for you". Flu kills thousands of people every year but no one bats an eyelid. Unless you or someone in your household is in an at risk group, chill the fuck out, you'll be fine. Don't be a dick and spread it around, but life cannot stop cos of a virus. Freedoms and justice cannot be allowed to be forfeited for a virus. There are billions of the bastards, we got lucky that this one is relatively minor. If it was Ebola I'd understand the panic.

[Gloomy]

Freedom should never be traded for so called "security" (there's really nothing secure about living under tyranny). Also if the whole idea is to keep people from spreading the virus, wouldn't putting them in overcrowded jails or having cops who could potentially be carriers get up in people's space just make it even worse?

 

If someone is an asshole who coughs on other people and spreads their germs everywhere, they'll likely reap what they sowed because people won't want to hang around them, their families won't let them back in the house because they don't want grandma getting sick, and potential employers will remember they were the dumbass who was caught on camera coughing on food at the store.

[AceMissBehaving]

As I understand it the regular masks help prevent you from spreading the virus through droplets ( coughing etc) IG you have the virus. It’s probably useful for people to maybe wear them even if they don’t feel sick on the off chance they are asymptomatic carriers.

 

When I had flu a few years back and needed groceries before quarantining I was told to wear a mask, sanitize hands, and give people a wide berth in order to prevent getting others sick.

 

The problem is there isn’t enough masks available for healthcare workers, let alone the general population. I’m currently helping make 1,300 masks for a facility a friend of mine works at, we have a serious shortage.

That said my nurse friend asked I mask up for protection if I go out because of my high due to respiratory issues, so if people have access, or better yet can make masks, it won’t hurt to wear them