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Which is worse. Covid-19 or the Panic?


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It is working as in it's slowing down the spread so the health system(s) won't get overwhelmed while more effective treatments are being tested and people are working on a vaccine.

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1 hour ago, Skycaptain said:

We can't afford to stay in this situation until a vaccination is developed and distributed. 

Hate to say it, but this is our new normal. We need to accept it, or our cases will spike. There are no other options.

 

I would rather socially distance for months, than get lax and see the outbreak really match places like Italy.

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The 1930's would be a cakewalk. At the current estimate 800000 businesses in Britain will fail in under two months despite government intervention. 

 

9 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Hate to say it, but this is our new normal. We need to accept it, or our cases will spike. There are no other options.

 

I would rather socially distance for months, than get lax and see the outbreak really match places like Italy.

To me it looks like we're already at the point where its better to return to normal, accept a few hundred million dead globally as this will still, ultimately, be less of a cost. 

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44 minutes ago, Skycaptain said:

accept a few hundred million dead

Even if some of those are people you love/care about?

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andreas1033

The billionaires are now calling for people to be let back, to normal.

 

Of course its them, or there families that will be exposed, and put in danger, of dying because of covid19, due to releasing restrictions.

 

This is why people like elon musk can laugh about people panicing, as he has no worries having to go about trying to live a basic life. Look at prince william laugh at the public being worried, and the royal family soon got themselves out of london out of harms way.

 

Typical hypocrites, as long as its someone else dying, they are fine with it.

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47 minutes ago, Skycaptain said:

To me it looks like we're already at the point where its better to return to normal, accept a few hundred million dead globally as this will still, ultimately, be less of a cost. 

That's one way to admit that there actually is no democracy and that money rules (and should rule) everything.

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26 minutes ago, Arodash said:

we are all stuck between a rock and a hard place

Unfortunately.

 

You're right however, in that the economy can't do this long term.

 

Many businesses will go out of business. There is no sugar coating it. Cash bailouts will only help slow the bleeding. Most business are fish out of water without consumers.

 

However, people need to prepare for this to be our new normal until fall at least.

 

I keep mentioning Hong Kong, but the cities that adapt the quickest, can return to normal the fastest. When I visited, they were almost a month into their outbreak.

 

They had already stabilized things, and business was already starting to return to normal.

 

The danger will always be the calm before the storm, as this is when people let their guards down. They fully relaxed things almost completely, and all that hard work was out the window.

 

From my experience there, you realized that your morning and day routines, now had to adapt to the times. I.E Do groceries? The moment you get in, you wash your hands, before handling your items. Fruits? Thoroughly clean them, immediately and dry. Cellphone gets sanitized since you likely were fiddling with it.

 

Even at work, I come in 30 minutes earlier than my usual already early, to disinfect.

 

This needs to be our new normal. Being aware of it, will calm people down in seeing this sucks, but is temporary.

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I suppose we are answering the question of the value of life. We will survive this thing, the question is how many people die and how much the economy suffers. Now is the time that you value life and how many people will survive.

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6 minutes ago, Arodash said:

This was already my norm to be honest. 

To me, those who are panicking, didn't know or truly understand good hand hygiene.

 

To truly understand hygiene and how bacteria works, you'll be very calm during this as you know how to protect yourself as your second nature.

 

"I'm supposed to clean my kitchen sink and disinfect it after making each meal I use it for?!" "I'm supposed to clean the tap, and knobs as well as behind it, too?" *panics*

 

I always wash my hands thoroughly. I always use hand sanitizer after shaking someone's hands. This is before this outbreak. I literally wake up 2 hours before leaving for work (so that I can clean, workout if I want to, and spend time with my significant other). By the time I leave, my place is spotless.

 

I am highly touch averse, so my entire life, I've been practicing social distancing.

 

The only adjustment for me, is the forced quarantine.

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1 hour ago, Homer said:

That's one way to admit that there actually is no democracy and that money rules (and should rule) everything.

Unless anyone comes up with a viable option that's true 

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3 hours ago, Skycaptain said:

But is it working? We have a near lockdown, estimates are between 2-5% of the population have caught this. What about the 90%? We can't afford to stay in this situation until a vaccination is developed and distributed. 

What confuses me is that up to 60,000 people die of the flu in the USA alone every flu season (which only spans a few months) despite there being a vaccine that many in the age range with the highest death rate actually get every single year (40+ are the people with the highest percentage of flu vaccination rates, also the highest amount of flu deaths - not saying the vaccine is killing them but that people are still dying despite it). 

 

So anyway, that's a HUGE amount of deaths in a first world country, and they're much, much higher in third world countries. Globally the flu death toll can reach the millions some years, over a period of a few months (including babies, kids, young healthy people, not just old people)

 

Please note (as some people seem to misunderstand me on this) I am NOT saying "Covid-19 is just like the flu" I'm just truly surprised (baffled) that despite those extremely high flu death rates, a literal killer pandemic every year that is also known to kill children, healthy people , etc, no one panics. No one even blinks an eye at the flu :o But the panic that's been created around Covid is actually worse and more dangerous than the Covid virus itself for the average person, and is seemingly about to plunge the entire globe into a massive recession. It's so confusing!!

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A depression would definitely end up killing people too (suicides, heart attacks, starving, people being killed in robberies, etc.). And no, going socialist like Venezuela wouldn’t help, people would die of that happened too.

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guest-member-0100356

In NZ, I'd say we're handling covid-19 alright, apart from the gross panic buying (and harrassment of essential workers, which is serious problem), and rarely the people not understanding the severity of alert level fourthink nationwide mandatory of self-isolation, only leave the house to exercise or use essential services, must practice physical distancing. So, for the aforementioned reasons, I'd think the panic is the worst. Our health system is not overwhelmed, with <20 people hospitalised at the time of writing. (We've had one death, and then a number of medical personall who had to self-isolate because they didn't know it was covid at first.), and many non-practiconing medical... people... are offering to devote their services to help combat this. So, in short, the disease is not the worst, and the panic is. Admittadly, I haven't gone into a supermarket, so I can't say if people have stripped the toilet paper and grocery isles, but I hope not, after strong words from our PM. I also haven't experienced the panic aspect for myself—most people I know are treating this calmly, and the most 'panic' I have seen is news reports specifically describing the panic, so I'm taking them with a grain of salt. 

 

However, the disease, like basically everywhere, is going to leave serious effects on our economy. Our government is giving us a generous wage subsidy—I cannot say if this is actually  'enough' or not—however people are having to be laid off, and buisnesses are losing income. A large part of our economy is tourism based... Not as large as, say, other places in the Pacific, but large enough. (I'm fortunate that both my parents are office workers, who get along well, and have the ability to work from home.)

 

Don't get me wrong. This is only really the beginning for NZ, though I wish it were the middle. We will have more hospitilisations, and unforunately deaths. Unless we've managed to stamp out the curve, it will get worse, before it gets better, Also, looking at places like Wuhan, there's going to be more actual cases than there are confirmed cases (for a while, at least). 

 

So I'd say that out of covid-fatalities or overwhelming our health system, vs. the panic, I'd say it'd be the panic. As for the effects of covid vs. panic, who knows. 

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8 hours ago, Gloomy said:

A depression would definitely end up killing people too

Definitely. Keeping people starved and jobless with a bleak outlook, starts out like what is happening in Italy. Keep it up, and you get this.

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andreas1033

Usa is really showing its true colours, by just intercepting, medical items on ways to other countries, and in effect stealing.

 

At least 3 countries have now said, america has in effect intercepted masks being shipped to there countries, and the americans stole there shipments in effect.

 

Shows you the real nature of the usa, and trump, whom assumes other countries should not be getting what they ordered over americans.

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Abigail Rose

Covid is worse because it doesn't care how you or anyone feels. It does not panic. It just eats. It is quiet as a mouse and swift like lightning. I am panicking for the other people around me. I have no reason to panic for me. I know what happens for me if I get it, and that I am very likely to get it soon. People not staying home has made this a reality for a lot of people. On the off chance I am actually able to avoid getting sick from this, I am certain to be a complete basket case on the other side.

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Abigail Rose
22 minutes ago, Arodash said:

Though I disagree with the idea of the US doing that, it isnt only the US doing it, European countries are doing that as well as western asian countries. Its like theres a scramble to hoard everything, which again, I disagree with but it isnt only the US

This is a human problem, not a issue of country or creed. The whole concept is that we would not be here like this now if there had been serious attention paid to the care of our species world wide. I think until we have done that then we should all expect this again and again.

 

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The Pharmacy/Medical establishment causes way more harm than good, and it now seems to be going for total dictatorial control of the whole world.

- IT IS JUST THE FLU
There is no treatment for the flu, the body fights it off by itself, creating immunity. About 99% have mild/moderate symptoms.
 
- NOBODY EVER DIED OF THE FLU
BUT always every year many people die with the flu.
The 1% do not die of the flu, but with the flu, the real cause of death being old age/underlying illness. 
 
- TREATMENT IS CRUELTY 
Few of the hospital treatments have any positive effect, and most of these survivors will die soon anyway being old. And then it may be of a far more nasty death e.g. cancer, which can be long drawn out, while the flu is really nasty but quick.
 
This is not about health, this is about control. They are treating us like cattle and robbing all our freedom.

 

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Tinfoil hat, anyone?

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1 hour ago, Cobie said:
Few of the hospital treatments have any positive effect

Wait what?

That's the whole problem of the ventilator and healthcare professional shortage.

Aside from general care being very helpful, about ~1/3 of patients that require a ventilator survive and recover (numbers are still flimsy, but that's roughly where most of the stats are at right now)

Given that we are likely talking tens of millions of deaths here, that's millions of people we can save in our hospitals! 😮

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Don't feed the troll.

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I mean, I don't like feeding them, but misinformation in a situation like this is dangerous! :D

If they only make one sick person believe in this bs who then doen't go to the doctor despite being seriously ill, that could be a death on their hands! :(

I'd rather feed a troll then risking someone's health - better safe than sorry! :)

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Everyone, can we please remember that whilst pointing out that that a post is factually incorrect, or is spreading misinformation, and correcting them is perfectly acceptable, referring to them as a troll isn't. Skycaptain moderator PPS 

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19 hours ago, Cobie said:
The Pharmacy/Medical establishment causes way more harm than good, and it now seems to be going for total dictatorial control of the whole world.

This isn't about control. Its about safety. Failure to quickly adapt and plan for this, ends up like Italy or any other nation slow to react to the infection. This isn't a game.

 

19 hours ago, Cobie said:

NOBODY EVER DIED OF THE FLU

But some people are actually dying from covid-19. An upper respiratory tract illness can easily kill someone with a depleted immune system. However, this is an illness that has also killed people with no underlying issues. Ever have a case of pneumonia? It sucks, but most will pull through but seeing what it does to your body, makes it understandable as to why covid-19 is so dangerous, albeit you'd be dealing with a different beast.

 

19 hours ago, Cobie said:

They are treating us like cattle and robbing all our freedom.

Cattle are grouped, and typically systematically slaughtered.

 

We are being told to stand apart, stay home, and are systematically being protected. Free will, shouldn't override your common sense. Going out in a group "because one can", or because "its one's right", isn't standing up for one's freedoms. Its putting others at risk, needlessly.

 

Its this very entitlement, which is killing Americans at an astronomical rate.

 

To me, the irony of someone who shuns the stringent rules the government is protecting them with, get sick and require emergency treatment. The very system, they are overwhelming with their ways (and adding to the risk they may not get adequate treatment when they need it).

 

To quote one of my favorite artists: "you don't feel it, until its your own blood".

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18 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

.... killing ... at an astronomical rate.

The numbers are quite small, roughly 150,000 people die each day across the globe.

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True. But for a single cause and compared to other countries, I guess one may well call it astronomical what that thing is doing in the US right now.

 

 

24 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Free will, shouldn't override your common sense. Going out in a group "because one can", or because "its one's right", isn't standing up for one's freedoms. Its putting others at risk, needlessly.

Personally I think this is the key lesson to be learned from this thing. This is a "threat" from which nobody can protect themself (other than going into precautionary quarantine, which may or may not be possible depending on one's work situation) but everyone can protect others. It's like the allegory of the long spoons, pandemic edition.

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What the actual ...... o.O

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Spread a rumour and some people will believe it.

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