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Qutenkuddly

AVEN ToS update regarding minor attraction

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Qutenkuddly

Following a directive given by the AVEN Board of Directors, the following changes have been made to the AVEN Terms of Service regarding people attracted to minors:

 

Quote

2.11 Minor attraction and pedophilia topics

AVEN's core mission involves creating a safe space for people to explore asexual spectrum identities, including many people below the age of consent. We are not able to fulfill this mission while also serving as a space for those who experience attraction to minors. While many may agree that minor attracted people who have committed no harm towards minors, and are dedicated to avoiding doing so, should have places to openly discuss their experiences and seek support in dealing with their attraction, AVEN is not equipped to serve as such a place. As such:

 

1) Minor attracted people will be subject to banning from the site.

2) No links relating expressly to minor attraction or pedophilia will be allowed on the AVEN boards.

3) No topics may be created that focus on minor attraction or pedophilia. Topics that are created about other subjects but drift to focus on minor attraction or pedophilia will be asked by mods to find a different focus. Small mentions of minor attraction or pedophilia that don't redirect conversations to focus on that subject are still acceptable (for example, providing links to research that might include individuals with a range of sexual experiences, one of those experiences happening to be minor attraction or pedophilia)

4) This policy doesn't prevent members from discussing their experiences with child abuse. In such cases, we ask replies focus on support for the member, rather than become a general discussion about pedophilia.

 

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MakeupJunkie444

THANK YOU  👍

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Ammy
10 minutes ago, Qutenkuddly said:

1) Minor attracted people will be subject to banning from the site.

I think this should be reworded, because this is unnecessarily harsh towards people who haven't acted on this type of attraction and who are commited to never acting inappropriately or harming anyone.

 

So you'd ban someone who has done absolutely nothing wrong, who doesn't ever want to do anything wrong, and who has never shown it on here, just because, say, someone finds out about it because they needed an outlet and talked about it somewhere, or they misjudged a friendship and talked to the wrong person who ends up outing them, etc.?

 

That's super harsh, for no reason. If anything this discourages them from seeking help. Encourages them to bottle it up so that no-one ever finds out. And when they bottle it up and don't get help, the chances that they might give in and act on it someday increases. I don't think we should be demonizing these people and discouraging them from seeking help.

 

Of course, someone who needs an outlet could use a different username elsewhere, and have reasonable chances that no-one will find out. But not everyone thinks to take these precautions, and for some it's already too late.

 

I fully agree with banning known offenders if they are found out, for the sake of the safety of our younger members. And I agree that discussion of this subject should not happen on here, and that anyone who may experience this type of attraction needs to never bring it up on here. But I object to the idea of a blanket ban of everyone just because of a condition that they have no control over, and that they never chose.

 

By all means, ban people if they bring it up on here and talk about it, ban people if they try to interact with minors in an inappropriate way, and especially ban sex offenders if they are found out, or if someone expresses that they may be at-risk of acting on it, but why would you ban people who did nothing wrong, who don't ever want to do anything wrong, and who never brought it up on here? For the crime of seeking help somewhere else and being unlucly enough that someone on the forums found out about it and banned them?

 

I would support maybe limiting their access to certain forum sections, ones where younger folk are likely to be talking about sex-related subjects, but a blanket ban on the entire community seems too harsh to me.

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Howard

The guideline are clearer. AVEN, not being a support site for abstinent pedophile, would not attract them imo.

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Qutenkuddly
7 minutes ago, Ammy said:

I think this should be reworded, because this is unnecessarily harsh towards people who haven't acted on this type of attraction and who are commited to never acting inappropriately or harming anyone.

 

So you'd ban someone who has done absolutely nothing wrong, who doesn't ever want to do anything wrong, and who has never shown it on here, just because, say, someone finds out about it because they needed an outlet and talked about it somewhere, or they misjudged a friendship and talked to the wrong person who ends up outing them, etc.?

 

That's super harsh, for no reason. If anything this discourages them from seeking help. Encourages them to bottle it up so that no-one ever finds out. And when they bottle it up and don't get help, the chances that they might give in and act on it someday increases. I don't think we should be demonizing these people and discouraging them from seeking help.

 

Of course, someone who needs an outlet could use a different username elsewhere, and have reasonable chances that no-one will find out. But not everyone thinks to take these precautions, and for some it's already too late.

 

I fully agree with banning known offenders if they are found out, for the sake of the safety of our younger members. And I agree that discussion of this subject should not happen on here, and that anyone who may experience this type of attraction needs to never bring it up on here. But I object to the idea of a blanket ban of everyone just because of a condition that they have no control over, and that they never chose.

 

By all means, ban people if they bring it up on here and talk about it, ban people if they try to interact with minors in an inappropriate way, and especially ban sex offenders if they are found out, or if someone expresses that they may be at-risk of acting on it, but why would you ban people who did nothing wrong, who don't ever want to do anything wrong, and who never brought it up on here? For the crime of seeking help somewhere else and being unlucly enough that someone on the forums found out about it and banned them?

 

I would support maybe limiting their access to certain forum sections, ones where younger folk are likely to be talking about sex-related subjects, but a blanket ban on the entire community seems too harsh to me.

I understand your concerns and very similar ones were raised when the Admod team was directed to make these changes to the Terms of Service. However, one of the primary missions of AVEN is education. It is especially important to provide education for those need it most, specifically youth who struggle with identity much more keenly than most adults would. Allowing the presence of minor attracted people could close a lot of doors for achieving that primary goal.

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Ammy
32 minutes ago, Qutenkuddly said:

I understand your concerns and very similar ones were raised when the Admod team was directed to make these changes to the Terms of Service. However, one of the primary missions of AVEN is education. It is especially important to provide education for those need it most, specifically youth who struggle with identity much more keenly than most adults would. Allowing the presence of minor attracted people could close a lot of doors for achieving that primary goal.

Yeah, I can see that this would help them feel safer joining here, if they could see in the rules that people who experience this type of attraction weren't allowed on the site, and therefore couldn't be peeking at what they're saying and bothering them.

 

I guess at the end of the day this is a "lesser of two evils" kind of thing. I think it's extremely important that people who suffer from pedophilia not be discouraged from seeking help, because those who do not want to act on it, and who know that it's wrong, often get very depressed because of it and are far more at-risk of committing suicide. And if they don't, then I'm afraid it becomes more and more likely for it to spiral out of control, the more time passes, which just leads to more minors being hurt.

 

I think that they should definitely be kept away from minors, to decrease the risk that they may be tempted to act on it. And given that they themselves don't want to hurt anyone, I'm sure most of them would agree with that, too. I just don't think they'd deserve being totally rejected. But like I said, lesser of two evils, and all that.

 

Thank you for being understanding, by the way. I understand where you're coming from, as well. I wish there was a better solution, but I guess it can't be helped.

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RoseGoesToYale

I agree with banning such members, whether they've acted on their attraction or not, mainly because we have minors on this site and there simply isn't the logistical power to keep an eye on those members to make sure they don't pose a danger to underage users.

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Silence4now

I would suggest a symbol indicating a minor but that would be problematic at best. If there was a way to verify it, then it would work. People would know that extra care is needed not to go farther than a reasonable point with the conversations minors should be subjected to. Just a thought but banning an actual offender, such as someone that can be proven to have known this person is a minor and carrying on anyhow, is absolutely what should happen. Great plan.

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Ammy

I do have another concern. How will things be handled, in the event that someone is suspected of experiencing this kind of attraction?

 

Because to me, it seems like this could be easily abuseable by someone who wants another person banned. They can just start rumors about them online using whatever personal info they could gather about them, or impersonate them on other sites by using similar names and profile pictures, and then come back to aven and rat on them after a certain amount of time has passed.

 

I get that making sure minors can feel comfortable on here is super important, and I don't disagree with that, but I insist that if this type of blanket-ban needs to be applied, then you need to be able to confirm with certainty that a person indeed experiences this type of attraction, before banning them. It would simply be way too easily abuseable otherwise. For the same reason why a person can't just make claims of abuse against another member, for example, without being able to provide adequate evidence that things are as they say they are.

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LeChat

So, no one thinks it'd be odd for someone who has an attraction to minors to be on an asexual site, a place where many others don't experience attraction to anyone (unless, you mean romantic attraction)?

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Serran
3 hours ago, Qutenkuddly said:

I understand your concerns and very similar ones were raised when the Admod team was directed to make these changes to the Terms of Service. However, one of the primary missions of AVEN is education. It is especially important to provide education for those need it most, specifically youth who struggle with identity much more keenly than most adults would. Allowing the presence of minor attracted people could close a lot of doors for achieving that primary goal.

Define minor ? In some places its 18, in others its 16, in others its 14. If you're going with attracted to anyone under 18 then er... isnt that most of the world should be banned (I mean look at how many found Taylor Swift attractive when she was young) ? I'm going to assume its within reason but the ToS doesnt define much. 

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Ammy
Posted (edited)

To me it sounds like it would be better to only disallow talking about it on here, and to ban only if someone brings it up on here. The rules would still dissuade them from joining, by telling them that here is not the place for them to receive support about this kind of thing. People who genuinely do not mean harm are more than likely to just turn back at this point, so the rule still serves its purpose of dissuading them from being on the site. And for actual offenders who do mean harm, the ToS are not a detriment to them, that wouldn't stop them. So you can continue just banning them once they are noticed, as you are no doubt already doing.

 

It simply would be way too difficult to police stuff that happens out-of-site. How do you tell with certainty that it's really the same person talking about it on another forum or community, and not someone impersonating them? The plus side is that any members who are currently on the forums, who suffer from it, and who may not want to have to lose all their friends on here over it, could just keep quiet, and they could still receive support from it elsewhere. And if they do act on it and cause problems, they can be dealt with.

 

CW: trans issues

Spoiler

Also, I'm sorry, but this is very much just like the transgender bathroom debate. This ruling seeks to punish the innocent for the deeds of the guilty.

 

With transgender people and bathrooms, people are afraid that a trans person with access to bathrooms of their preferred sex would abuse this privilege to prey on members of that sex. But that's not really how it goes, people just want to pee. And banning trans people from using the bathrooms for their preferred sex doesn't actually prevent misdeeds from happening, because actual sexual predators would just ignore the fact that they shouldn't be going in bathrooms for the opposite sex and do it anyway.

 

In this case here, members who may experience some degree of attraction towards minors (through no fault nor will of their own) are being banned from using the forums and being a part of the community, even though they don't mean any harm and just want to be a part of a community, have friends, and perhaps receive advice regarding their sexuality (adult-wise), or if they wanted to talk about asexuality, perhaps their partner is asexual for example, or someone they know is. Meanwhile, actual sex offenders will just come to the forums anyway, the ToS does not stop them. And once they show themselves and cause problems, they will be banned, exactly like what is already happening.

 

As much as we all despise child abusers, I think you need to realize that a rule like this doesn't actually do anything to protect minors, it only punishes the innocents. Someone who intends harm will not make themselves known. Not here, not anywhere else. They'll keep quiet about it and go as far as they can until they get caught, at which point it's already too late. Meanwhile, someone who actually takes the time to reach out and seek help for it, and who makes it known. The kind of people who you would be seeking to ban. Those aren't the people who are at risk of committing awful stuff. If they had an inch of ill intent in their mind, they'd be keeping to themselves.

 

I've thought about it, and the only way that minors would really feel more comfortable being here, was if you could completely and reliably ban anybody who could cause them harm, before they even start doing anything on the site. But this is not possible. This rule does not actually prevent abusers from showing up on the site and preying on minors. So I'm left wondering, what does this rule actually do, besides punishing innocents?

 

I think a far more productive thing to do, would be to let members who suffer from this condition reveal themselves to the admins, in private. Then the admins can add restrictions onto their account, if necessary. For instance like I mentioned earlier, don't let them access the forum sections where minors would be talking about sensitive subjects, not without supervision at least (in case they themselves needed to talk or ask for advice.) You could also prevent them from using private messaging, again, if necessary. Put those members in high supervision mode, where everything they post is watched. That way if they do anything to cross the line, they can be dealt with. But the majority will be innocents who have never done anything wrong, and who don't ever want to harm anyone, so banning them doesn't actually help improve the safety of minors on here... because they weren't threatening their safety in the first place.

 

Edited by Ammy
cw is probably warranted here
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Ammy
23 minutes ago, LeChat said:

So, no one thinks it'd be odd for someone who has an attraction to minors to be on an asexual site, a place where many others don't experience attraction to anyone (unless, you mean romantic attraction)?

This site is not exclusive to asexuals. People of various sexual orientations are welcomed here, for many reasons. For instance, it's very useful for people who are still working on figuring themselves out, and it's also very useful for people who happen to be in a relationship with someone who is asexual, and who needs help regarding this. We have an entire section dedicated to people who are merely friends, partners, or family, of people who are asexual. There's also another section for sex-related discussions, for a reason.

 

A lot of well-liked and respected members on here are far from being asexual, and I don't want anyone who isn't ace to feel like they aren't allowed to be here.

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Serran
2 minutes ago, Ammy said:

To me it sounds like it would be better to only disallow talking about it on here, and to ban only if someone brings it up on here. The rules would still dissuade them from joining, by telling them that here is not the place for them to receive support about this kind of thing. People who genuinely do not mean harm are more than likely to just turn back at this point, so the rule still serves its purpose of dissuading them from being on the site. And for actual offenders who do mean harm, the ToS are not a detriment to them, that wouldn't stop them. So you can continue just banning them once they are noticed, as you are no doubt already doing.

 

It simply would be way too difficult to police stuff that happens out-of-site. How do you tell with certainty that it's really the same person talking about it on another forum or community, and not someone impersonating them? The plus side is that any members who are currently on the forums, who suffer from it, and who may not want to have to lose all their friends on here over it, could just keep quiet, and they could still receive support from it elsewhere. And if they do act on it and cause problems, they can be dealt with.

 

  Hide contents

Also, I'm sorry, but this is very much just like the transgender bathroom debate. This ruling seeks to punish the innocent for the deeds of the guilty.

 

With transgender people and bathrooms, people are afraid that a trans person with access to bathrooms of their preferred sex would abuse this privilege to prey on members of that sex. But that's not really how it goes, people just want to pee. And banning trans people from using the bathrooms for their preferred sex doesn't actually prevent misdeeds from happening, because actual sexual predators would just ignore the fact that they shouldn't be going in bathrooms for the opposite sex and do it anyway.

 

In this case here, members who may experience some degree of attraction towards minors (through no fault nor will of their own) are being banned from using the forums and being a part of the community, even though they don't mean any harm and just want to be a part of a community, have friends, and perhaps receive advice regarding their sexuality (adult-wise), or if they wanted to talk about asexuality, perhaps their partner is asexual for example, or someone they know is. Meanwhile, actual sex offenders will just come to the forums anyway, the ToS does not stop them. And once they show themselves and cause problems, they will be banned, exactly like what is already happening.

 

As much as we all despise child abusers, I think you need to realize that a rule like this doesn't actually do anything to protect minors, it only punishes the innocents. Someone who intends harm will not make themselves known. Not here, not anywhere else. They'll keep quiet about it and go as far as they can until they get caught, at which point it's already too late. Meanwhile, someone who actually takes the time to reach out and seek help for it, and who makes it known. The kind of people who you would be seeking to ban. Those aren't the people who are at risk of committing awful stuff. If they had an inch of ill intent in their mind, they'd be keeping to themselves.

 

I've thought about it, and the only way that minors would really feel more comfortable being here, was if you could completely and reliably ban anybody who could cause them harm, before they even start doing anything on the site. But this is not possible. This rule does not actually prevent abusers from showing up on the site and preying on minors. So I'm left wondering, what does this rule actually do, besides punishing innocents?

 

I think a far more productive thing to do, would be to let members who suffer from this condition reveal themselves to the admins, in private. Then the admins can add restrictions onto their account, if necessary. For instance like I mentioned earlier, don't let them access the forum sections where minors would be talking about sensitive subjects, not without supervision at least (in case they themselves needed to talk or ask for advice.) You could also prevent them from using private messaging, again, if necessary. Put those members in high supervision mode, where everything they post is watched. That way if they do anything to cross the line, they can be dealt with. But the majority will be innocents who have never done anything wrong, and who don't ever want to harm anyone, so banning them doesn't actually help improve the safety of minors on here... because they weren't threatening their safety in the first place.

 

There used to be threads from members that were AMAs of self-confessed pedophiles (as in attracted to, didn't act on though). They had a lot of replies and generated a lot of controversy. Hence the rule change. 

 

I just think it's an ill-defined clause to simply say attraction to minors can mean a ban without defining it further. By the letter of the rule someone saying they found Britney hot in her hit me baby one more time video could get slapped with one. Which I'm pretty sure isnt the intention of the rule. 

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Ammy
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Serran said:

There used to be threads from members that were AMAs of self-confessed pedophiles (as in attracted to, didn't act on though). They had a lot of replies and generated a lot of controversy. Hence the rule change. 

 

I just think it's an ill-defined clause to simply say attraction to minors can mean a ban without defining it further. By the letter of the rule someone saying they found Britney hot in her hit me baby one more time video could get slapped with one. Which I'm pretty sure isnt the intention of the rule. 

I don't really question points 2, 3 and 4, those are fine in my book. What I take issue with is the banning of innocents just because they have a condition that they never had the choice to have or not have. Meanwhile people who genuinely mean harm are not affected by the rule.

 

btw, if anyone is wondering. I'm ready to stand up for what I believe in. I believe in care and compassion, and I have no shortage of empathy. I'd really hate to be one of those people right now, browsing the site like they usually did, and then they come across a news post that directly tells them they are no longer welcome, even though they've done nothing wrong and don't ever want to hurt or bother anyone. Can you imagine how much that would hurt? I can. And it really upsets me that there is likely some people on the forums right now for whom this is the case. If I don't stand up for them, who will?

Edited by Ammy
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Serran

And further explanation - admods are scared to check these threads at times since links may lead to illegal material that even having clicked it could land you in trouble. So, double issue legally speaking.  They cant remove the link without knowing what it is and cant click it without risk of having that gross material on their device which lands you on a sex offender list if flagged by authorities. Easier to simply remove the threads. 

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Serran
Just now, Ammy said:

I don't really question points 2, 3 and 4, those are fine in my book. What I take issue with is the banning of innocents just because they have a condition that they never had the choice to have or not have. Meanwhile people who genuinely mean harm are not affected by the rule.

Yeah I'm pretty sure the intention of the rule is " If you come on AVEN and confess you find children attractive we will remove you, because this isnt the place for that and minors dont need to interact with a self-confessed pedophile while seeking support". It just isnt defined well with short sentence in the ToS. 

 

And off site isnt held against anyone in any ToS breach btw. 

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Ammy
2 minutes ago, Serran said:

And off site isnt held against anyone in any ToS breach btw.

I hope so. That is why I was asking for clarification, and I guess it comes back to wanting 1) to be reworded.

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Serran
4 minutes ago, Ammy said:

I hope so. That is why I was asking for clarification, and I guess it comes back to wanting 1) to be reworded.

I'm an ex-admod and ex-trainer. They cant use anything off site since they cant prove it's the person who owns the account. So dont worry. 

 

1 still needs clarified though. I know AVEN is U.S based so minor likely means under 18. I know it likely means common sense within reason at risk predatory users will be banned. But... I dont expect a newbie from a country where a minor is under 14 or 16 to know U.S laws. Or even that AVEN is U.S based. Or that discussing your legal relationship (like my cousin was 16 and married to a 25 year old) isnt gonna fall under it. Etc etc. I get they want it vague so they have freedom but a tad too vague. 

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Ammy
Posted (edited)

@Serran thank you for the context stuff, by the way. Also, you are very down to earth and I appreciate that.

 

As you might have guessed, I don't really ever check the forum sections where this kind of stuff might show up, so I have really no idea what might have been going on to make people uncomfortable, and what prompted the moderation team to add this clause. But I think it was still worth it for me to bring up my worries, because the wording is definitely much too broad, and if I was able to misinterpret it like this, then others certainly would, too.

 

And also, I apologize if my reaction was a bit too hasty 😓 but yeah, I don't think it was totally unfounded either way.

Edited by Ammy
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Serran

Suggestion :

 

Minor attracted people may be subject to a permanent ban from AVEN. 

 

**** This is for people who admit to attraction to persons under the age of 18 on AVEN (PM, forums or chat). This is to protect our younger users from potential predators. Moderators will use their discretion. ****

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Una Salus Victus
29 minutes ago, Serran said:

I'm an ex-admod and ex-trainer. They cant use anything off site since they cant prove it's the person who owns the account. So dont worry. 

 

1 still needs clarified though. I know AVEN is U.S based so minor likely means under 18. I know it likely means common sense within reason at risk predatory users will be banned. But... I dont expect a newbie from a country where a minor is under 14 or 16 to know U.S laws. Or even that AVEN is U.S based. Or that discussing your legal relationship (like my cousin was 16 and married to a 25 year old) isnt gonna fall under it. Etc etc. I get they want it vague so they have freedom but a tad too vague. 

Yeah, it's based in the US. I did bring it up, since where I live it's 16. While, in theory I could get together with someone who is say, 17 here, legally, this however would get me banned since AVEN is based in the US.

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MakeupJunkie444

I'm thinking this is more of an issue to protect the teenagers on here, not necessarily to ban people who are (legally) dating someone under 18 off site...this seems to be geared towards people who are sexually attracted to very young people and are seeking out relationships with them online. This is different than being able to legally date someone under 18 in your own country (which of course is your own business). This is just my take on the ToS, and it may not be accurate - just putting this out there. 👍

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FaerieFate

This thread is being locked; it should have been locked from the start by the policy itself as the topic is off-limits on AVEN - apologies for this. if you have any questions or concerns, please contact  avenboard@gmail.com .

 

Faeriefate, Admin

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Heart
Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Ammy said:

Yeah, I can see that this would help them feel safer joining here, if they could see in the rules that people who experience this type of attraction weren't allowed on the site, and therefore couldn't be peeking at what they're saying and bothering them.

 

I guess at the end of the day this is a "lesser of two evils" kind of thing. I think it's extremely important that people who suffer from pedophilia not be discouraged from seeking help, because those who do not want to act on it, and who know that it's wrong, often get very depressed because of it and are far more at-risk of committing suicide. And if they don't, then I'm afraid it becomes more and more likely for it to spiral out of control, the more time passes, which just leads to more minors being hurt.

 

I think that they should definitely be kept away from minors, to decrease the risk that they may be tempted to act on it. And given that they themselves don't want to hurt anyone, I'm sure most of them would agree with that, too. I just don't think they'd deserve being totally rejected. But like I said, lesser of two evils, and all that.

 

Thank you for being understanding, by the way. I understand where you're coming from, as well. I wish there was a better solution, but I guess it can't be helped.

Spoiler

 

I admit I had a lot of personal conflict with this new rule too. I desperately wish there was somewhere safe for minor attracted folks to go for support and community. Isolation is never the answer. And they deserve support in not offending as much as anyone else.

 

Ultimately though, I can see why AVEN just can't be that place for them. As much as AVEN has been my support, I acknowledge that it can't be everyone's.

 

On that note though, if anyone knows of a charity that supports minor attracted folks in not offending, I'd like to know about it. I would personally like to throw a small donation their way, to show support and help them. This is well needed, and just because we can't be it doesn't mean it shouldn't exist.

 

 

14 hours ago, Ammy said:

I do have another concern. How will things be handled, in the event that someone is suspected of experiencing this kind of attraction?

 

Because to me, it seems like this could be easily abuseable by someone who wants another person banned. They can just start rumors about them online using whatever personal info they could gather about them, or impersonate them on other sites by using similar names and profile pictures, and then come back to aven and rat on them after a certain amount of time has passed.

 

I get that making sure minors can feel comfortable on here is super important, and I don't disagree with that, but I insist that if this type of blanket-ban needs to be applied, then you need to be able to confirm with certainty that a person indeed experiences this type of attraction, before banning them. It would simply be way too easily abuseable otherwise. For the same reason why a person can't just make claims of abuse against another member, for example, without being able to provide adequate evidence that things are as they say they are.

This hasn't come up yet that I can remember, but I imagine we'd deal with it similarly to most such allegations. We collect all the evidence we can, and weigh it until we feel like we can come to a conclusion. Typically (again, I can't speak to this policy specifically, since we haven't had to do it yet), the benefit of the doubt is given the member. If we don't feel like we can get enough proof, then we won't act on it.

 

One precedent may be how we deal with allegations that a member is under 13; sometimes, a member themselves accidentally "outs" themselves (eg "Hey guys, my birthday is tomorrow, I'm turning 12!"). That's pretty solid evidence, and we'll probably ban at that point. But if another member comes to us and says "Hey just so you know memberX is under 13", then we typically ask how they know and try to investigate further. We don't just auto-ban for something like that, especially since it's a good way to get someone revenge-banned that you're angry at or something. I hope that helps clear it up, and I imagine we'd deal with a minor attracted allegation similarly.

 

 

Edit: whoo-boy, many posts have happened while I was writing this. Sorry if this is now out of date :( I'm spoilering my answer since I accidentally posted after a lock comment. My sincere apologies Fae!!!

Edited by Heart
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