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DarkGloomSquid

I dont feel connected to whole Ace thing

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DarkGloomSquid
8 minutes ago, naakka said:

I think I'm blind to that attitude since I haven't noticed it here. Maybe I have contributed to it myself, without noticing? Can you give practical examples where you feel like this?

If you look at threads that are about "Society and their thing with sex and romance" You will find people aces/aros asking what is with society and sex/romance and then when people answer aces/aros like to be like "But its not such a intimate thing."  and then some will list why this or that is better and basically how being ace makes your more sweet then the vile disgusting thing known as sexual or sex and how dare they have it connected with something so pure like romance.

 

Also in chat and in little tid bits allos or aces will ask questions about sex or something and you will get those replies of basically being  "Hahah luckily I dont have these problems." as if anything sex related is a problem. 

 

Then you get the ones who are basically like "Ha I dont have such carnal urges ha that makes me better cause I dont have to give into such a foul desire." 

 

It may not be obvious to you because its also a norm in this community and some wont out right say like "Im ace and that makes me better then those stinking animals." but if you read their wording its easy to catch out. 

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naakka
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, GatsbyGirl said:

If you look at threads that are about "Society and their thing with sex and romance" You will find people aces/aros asking what is with society and sex/romance and then when people answer aces/aros like to be like "But its not such a intimate thing."  and then some will list why this or that is better and basically how being ace makes your more sweet then the vile disgusting thing known as sexual or sex and how dare they have it connected with something so pure like romance.

Ok, if people here oppose sex being associated with positive things, that's a problem. Anyhow, if people only comment why they prefer something else over sex, I don't think that's a problem.

 

 

I've also been thinking there's a thin line between being sex-aversed and sex-negative. I think it's great these two are separated in the community rules. But thinking it from the point of view of a sex-aversed ace, it calls for certain level of self-monitoring and guts to be able to talk about something you really personally don't like, while still not disrespecting others.

 

Can you get what I'm saying? If you have a negative experience of, lets say, spiders, how can you talk with someone who has them as pets? Since people have different experiences, it asks for a) certain level of tolerance to be exposed to something you don't like b) a bit of thick skin to see it from the other persons perspective instead of personal insult.

 

1 hour ago, GatsbyGirl said:

Also in chat and in little tid bits allos or aces will ask questions about sex or something and you will get those replies of basically being  "Hahah luckily I dont have these problems." as if anything sex related is a problem. 

(First, I haven't been at chat that much, so can't comment on that.) Can you conclude anything sex-related is seen as "a problem" if person is just happy without it and issues brought by it? I think it's just a person being relieved they don't have to face certain sex-specific issues. Respectively, you'll see threads by aces who mourn their inability to take part to normal dating culture and relationships, who can't relate or be related by most of their friends and relatives etc... I think the both sides of the coin have been heard here?

 

I mean, if we forbid joking about something another person experiences differently, we might as well ban joking completely. Obviously, there's limits also on joking, but if it's not aimed personally at you, it shouldn't be taken as such.

 

1 hour ago, GatsbyGirl said:

Then you get the ones who are basically like "Ha I dont have such carnal urges ha that makes me better cause I dont have to give into such a foul desire." 

Do they especially say it makes them better, tho? Or do they just think they feel lucky in some things, i.e. "wouldn't change a thing about myself"? Anyhow, I do think it crosses the limit if sexual desires are literally named as "animalistic" etc. (I haven't seen that happening here, but if it does, I do not agree with it). It's no more "un-human" than hunger or thirstiness.

 

1 hour ago, GatsbyGirl said:

It may not be obvious to you because its also a norm in this community and some wont out right say like "Im ace and that makes me better then those stinking animals." but if you read their wording its easy to catch out. 

I just kinda disagree. If person does not explicitely say they think they're better than someone else, I don't like to read negative implications between the lines. I rather ask for clarification than make assumptions. Maybe it's just me and my weird way to process stuff lol. /Edit. As an aroace, I can tell you people assuming I think I'm "better than them" just because I don't participate in dating and sexual stuff, can feel equally insulting. So I really don't think assuming people's stands helps anyone./

 

Anyhow, I just want you to know that your experiences are welcomed, crucial even, to prevent aces falling into black-and-white stereotypes. Would it be a good idea to start a new area for sex-favorable aces (if one doesn't already exist)? There you could list what kind of discourse you wish to have. You can also add a disclaimer, so sex-related stuff doesn't come as a surprise to anyone. Or simply comment on "incredible ace moments", "asexual problems" etc as "sex-favored ace" (I do this too, as an "aroace"). That will let people know your stand and perspective. I'm sure a lot of sex-neutral or even sex-aversed aces are interested in learning more about you people :) Please use your energy to spreading awareness, instead of blind blaming. I'm sure it's more helpful to everyone, especially to you.

Edited by naakka
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DarkGloomSquid
1 hour ago, naakka said:

Ok, if people here oppose sex being associated with positive things, that's a problem. Anyhow, if people only comment why they prefer something else over sex, I don't think that's a problem.

The problem is when they ask allo/ace and allo/ace reply and get told but "its not a special form of intimacy" by aces who dont care for sex when the allos/aces who do care for sex were answering the question why romance and sex go hand in hand. People who dont care or understand tell people who do care and understand it off is the problem.

 

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naakka
Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, GatsbyGirl said:

The problem is when they ask allo/ace and allo/ace reply and get told but "its not a special form of intimacy" by aces who dont care for sex when the allos/aces who do care for sex were answering the question why romance and sex go hand in hand. People who dont care or understand tell people who do care and understand it off is the problem.

 

Oh I see. It sounds like an issue caused by different perspectives? If you don't get sexual attraction, then you don't get what's so special about sex as a form of intimacy, either. Without seeing the conversation, I of course can't comment on the tone, but I can see how I also could fail to understand what makes sex so specific and tied to romance (to be clear, I don't get romance either :D ). From my part it would be genuine wondering without trying to insult, from someone else's part might not.

 

 

This case actually reminds me of conversation I took part in when there was an allo partner who couldn't handle the fact their ace partner wasn't sexually attracted to them. No matter how many time it was explained, I still kinda struggled to understand why the allo person feels rejected by their partner, if their partner loves them by every other way possible (every way possible for the ace). I just can't relate, and it has nothing to do with me wanting to hurt that allo partner. I'm also thankful for the allo people who kept trying to make me understand even if it seemed impossible, since I just genuinely want to understand different kind of people. If I was in a similar discussiong with you, I'd be thankful for you doing the same.

Edited by naakka

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AceWing
6 hours ago, naakka said:

@AceWing

I'm not saying things you described didn't happen in the community. But my experience since entering here is, that our community does a good job at preventing black-and-white opinions and elitism attitudes. Sure you see a lot of stereotypical stuff... but couldn't it just indicate that a lot of people actually relate to that stuff? Isn't it the actual purpose of the community?

We do a good job of making sure OUR opinions and labels aren't black-and-white, but the views aces may have towards sexual people are very homogeneous. Maybe they relate to that stuff and whatever. Personally, I think the opinions we might have are extremely toxic and shouldn't be encouraged even if some can relate. There needs to be a message of unity as opposed to seceding from any opportunity of it. We also need to let other aces know that sexual people aren't the devil instead of memeing about "oooooo sex icky bleugh"

 

The purpose of a functional community is to come together based on commonalities and work out other perspective using our viewpoints and come to our own unique conclusion. What we forget to do is separate our biases and yes, other communities do this, too. But in context, I've seen it happen in this community. We need to promote more alternative thinking from the "sex bad" perspective. Just because it's something we have in common doesn't mean it would actually benefit us as a community or our image. People already think we're prudes and sociopaths with no potential for love, we don't need to prove them right.

6 hours ago, naakka said:

The fact that you hear their opinion less (since there's less of them), doesn't mean they were silenced. 

But it does mean that a motivation for speaking up could've been due to fear of contempt from the community for wrong-think.

6 hours ago, naakka said:

But as with every minority, the majority don't have your experience, so they can't really speak for you.

They can't, but they sure as hell try.

6 hours ago, naakka said:

 I'm sure that if you do tell your own story, even more people with the same experience will speak up. Imo, that's way more constructive conversation than complaining how you don't see the kind of people you wanted to see here.

I'm not "complaining" about the people, I'm expressing disdain about the attitudes aces have towards sexual people and how it halts variant lines of thought because we'd rather meme than do anything else. Already, I'm detecting dismissal and other negative assumptions about me, the exact reason people who have the same thoughts as me may not speak out. I can't have constructive conversation if this is how it's gonna be every time I bring up hot takes.

6 hours ago, naakka said:

Or maybe I just haven't been here long enough to see what this community really is like?

Not sure how long you've been in the community for, but give it time and don't wear the ace goggles. You'll catch the same things I'm catching if you hang around these spaces long enough. I didn't notice these trends until 3 years ago.

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AceWing
6 hours ago, GatsbyGirl said:

@AceWing the "I am higher then thou" attitude in this community is sooooo irritating. We should be respectful but then aces act like they the new gods. 

*busy summoning a demon* Oops 

 

The whole baggage of being ace. If I could I would be allo and be on my happy merry way.

 I only started disliking the community recently. 

I think I love you, hahaha.

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dangerousPerson
On 3/6/2020 at 12:35 PM, GatsbyGirl said:

And that makes me feel sooo not ace but I dont feel any sexual attraction to anyone and that makes me ace. I get along with sexual people just fine but ace people... I dont know sometimes they remind me of vegans and I cant really handle vegans. Bring me down for not being ace enough.

 

I don't know if you've met other ace people in real life, but I don't think the majority of ace people are the way you view them. This is a case of generalizing a population based on the most visible/vocal members. I feel similarly to you in a lot of ways. However, I tend to think of it as a sort of "tumblr personality" rather than, say, the common perception of vegans (which is again a case of generalizing based on the most visible members, as my view of a "tumblr personality" is too). I happen to have, by chance, met about a dozen asexual people in my life. I'd say only 2 fit the model that I think you are referring to here. I believe most ace people are very low-key about it. Some feel disconnected or isolated, but don't feel the need to be online about it or be active in queer circles. Some don't even consider themselves queer, most of whom are heteroromantic I would assume. The majority of those I've known have also been fine with fine with sex stuff. A couple have sex themselves. It's more diverse than you think.

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naakka
4 minutes ago, AceWing said:

We do a good job of making sure OUR opinions and labels aren't black-and-white, but the views aces may have towards sexual people are very homogeneous. Maybe they relate to that stuff and whatever. Personally, I think the opinions we might have are extremely toxic and shouldn't be encouraged even if some can relate. There needs to be a message of unity as opposed to seceding from any opportunity of it. We also need to let other aces know that sexual people aren't the devil instead of memeing about "oooooo sex icky bleugh"

How you do know it's that way, tho? Maybe you've spotted some aces who have negative attitudes towards sexual aces, but you can't claim that's some higher consensus here. That's as prejudiced as telling negative stereotypes about sexual people. I've seen some ace memes I can't relate to, and I've just assumed it's because I'm not especially sex-repulsed. Does it connect me to those who have negative attitude, if I don't speak my mind up? Tbh, it just never came across my mind, maybe do so more in the future :D

 

8 minutes ago, AceWing said:

The purpose of a functional community is to come together based on commonalities and work out other perspective using our viewpoints and come to our own unique conclusion. What we forget to do is separate our biases and yes, other communities do this, too. But in context, I've seen it happen in this community. We need to promote more alternative thinking from the "sex bad" perspective. Just because it's something we have in common doesn't mean it would actually benefit us as a community or our image. People already think we're prudes and sociopaths with no potential for love, we don't need to prove them right.

Well, honestly, I feel like "sex is bad" is yet another negative ace stereotype (towards sex-neutral/sex-aversed aces). I don't think that way about sex, and even once I haven't experienced the pressure to say something like that. And saying that you can't relate to sexual urges, or you'd never do it yourself, is still just a personal experience and not targeted towards those who do.

14 minutes ago, AceWing said:

But it does mean that a motivation for speaking up could've been due to fear of contempt from the community for wrong-think.

Possibly? If so, I wish sex-favoured aces would speak up more, and create spaces whitin the community to meet each others. Either way, I feel like telling others about your experiences as sex-favoured ace will achieve more than focusing on things you feel insulted about. Fair enough, if someone have personally insulted you, you deserve an apology. But pointing fingers at every direction just divides people and makes everyone feel more distant from each others. And that's because of, by blindly blaming "them" will in turn include the innocent people, so it kinda gives people an excuse to not to take you seriously.

19 minutes ago, AceWing said:

They can't, but they sure as hell try.

Again, "blaming the other side".

20 minutes ago, AceWing said:

I'm not "complaining" about the people, I'm expressing disdain about the attitudes aces have towards sexual people and how it halts variant lines of thought because we'd rather meme than do anything else. Already, I'm detecting dismissal and other negative assumptions about me, the exact reason people who have the same thoughts as me may not speak out. I can't have constructive conversation if this is how it's gonna be every time I bring up hot takes.

Well, it's your choice to "detect dismissal attitudes" towards you. My only motivation to comment in subject is to find a way to have healthy discussion between sex-favored and other aces, instead of "blame game". I hold nothing against people who feel like they can't talk here, rather it upsets me a bit. But I'm against bursting your negative feelings uncontrollably by blaming "them", it's not fair. I mean, it's your belief that every non-sex-favored ace here has that attitude towards sex.

I think the constructive conversation simply can't happen around "blame game". Letting that aside and telling relatable stories for other sex-favored aces will both connect you to others like you and give other kind of aces better understanding about you. I think that's better approach in long run than getting stuck by "hot takes".

28 minutes ago, AceWing said:

Not sure how long you've been in the community for, but give it time and don't wear the ace goggles. You'll catch the same things I'm catching if you hang around these spaces long enough. I didn't notice these trends until 3 years ago.

I don't know, maybe over a year? Need to check out my profile :D I'll keep my eyes open 👍

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AceWing
1 hour ago, naakka said:

How you do know it's that way, tho? Maybe you've spotted some aces who have negative attitudes towards sexual aces, but you can't claim that's some higher consensus here. That's as prejudiced as telling negative stereotypes about sexual people.

Been in this community for a very long time and I currently moderate an asexual subreddit. I've had to tell people numerous times to not be rude about or towards sexual people and delete some hate threads and comments on posters who make posts just like that. I've seen comments of other asexuals saying that they are more "evolved" than sexual people or that sexual people are neanderthals simply because they're sexual. I run this subreddit with a mod who is sex-repulsed and assumes that all sexual people want to do is rape others. I'm almost certain the next time I log into Reddit I'll see more of this stuff.

 

This isn't "some". The fact that this is present in a frankly sizable community on Reddit should be enough of an indication of general thought on sexual people among our community.

1 hour ago, naakka said:

I've seen some ace memes I can't relate to, and I've just assumed it's because I'm not especially sex-repulsed.

So you admit that the meme culture hinges on asexuals' potential disgust or contempt over sex and the people who are sexually attracted to others? It's not a good thing if the meme culture relies on disgust or sarcastic malice towards that demographic because not only does it eliminate comedic nuance, it further cements the many secret thoughts that asexuals might hold which we need to work on getting them to think critically about.

 

The assumption that you need to be sex-repulsed is not something that should need to be a requirement for humor, participation or a sense of belonging in the community. It also makes it sound like you're aware of how things generally are around here. It's bad if the acknowledgement now is "I need to be sex-repulsed to be anything here".

1 hour ago, naakka said:

Well, honestly, I feel like "sex is bad" is yet another negative ace stereotype (towards sex-neutral/sex-aversed aces). I don't think that way about sex, and even once I haven't experienced the pressure to say something like that. And saying that you can't relate to sexual urges, or you'd never do it yourself, is still just a personal experience and not targeted towards those who do.

It isn't a bad stereotype is that's the general opinion or consensus of that sect. I'm not blaming specifically you, so there's no need to defend yourself and ignore where this happens elsewhere. And yes, while I don't experience sexual urges, attractions, etc., I don't have a feeling of superiority over those who do. I don't think I'm a better person for it and that we will "win" over sexual people over many things. That's the main issue here. People find out they're asexual and they feel an immense sense of pride. That pride turns into indignation at perceived wrong-doings and then it turns into complete hatred. Discourse becomes unproductive with these people. This happens because the community lets this rhetoric run wild. No one thinks about the implications of it because "hahaha, that's SOOOOOOOOO me!". The meme factor and the fact that we relate to it so much prevents us from being critical on it. This isn't me ruining asexual people's fun either, this is just a reactionary response. This is the result that was bound to happen from literal YEARS of witnessing this and not having any thought applied to this.

 

I'm afraid based on the way things are still the same over the years, we're only going to be a hugbox some more.

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Possibly? If so, I wish sex-favoured aces would speak up more, and create spaces whitin the community to meet each others. Either way, I feel like telling others about your experiences as sex-favoured ace will achieve more than focusing on things you feel insulted about. Fair enough, if someone have personally insulted you, you deserve an apology. But pointing fingers at every direction just divides people and makes everyone feel more distant from each others. And that's because of, by blindly blaming "them" will in turn include the innocent people, so it kinda gives people an excuse to not to take you seriously.

It's not going to achieve anything if the community would rather have nothing to do with this line of discourse. No one has insulted me and I'm not blindly turning my frustration at everyone including innocents. Please don't make me look disorganized where a lack of organization does not exist. My rhetoric has a clear target and it's about the general attitude of aces towards sex and sexual people.

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Again, "blaming the other side".

No blame here, just acknowledgement and an attempt to have a dialogue about this.

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My only motivation to comment in subject is to find a way to have healthy discussion between sex-favored and other aces, instead of "blame game".

Sure, and that's your prerogative. That's something you personally would like to do because you're a fan of healthy discussions. I don't know the extent of how much you've spoken up, but that's not really important. What's more important is that the positive attitude you have is not shared by the majority of the community here even if it seems like it is. There can be no momentum if your level of critical thinking is not shared by a good chunk. I'm really trying to look for a different attitude in this community, but I'm not having luck. This isn't a sign in this case of just having a bad opinion or anything, it's a sign of complacency.

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I don't know, maybe over a year? Need to check out my profile :D I'll keep my eyes open 👍

Be sure you're looking at many ace resources. It's a circlejerk here and everywhere else. 

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DarkGloomSquid
2 hours ago, AceWing said:

I think I love you, hahaha.

I summoned the demob before I found AVEN ....does that count or it is vetoed? 

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naakka
52 minutes ago, AceWing said:

Been in this community for a very long time and I currently moderate an asexual subreddit. I've had to tell people numerous times to not be rude about or towards sexual people and delete some hate threads and comments on posters who make posts. I've seen comments of other asexuals saying that they are more "evolved" than sexual people or that they're neanderthals simply because they're sexual. I run the subreddit with a mod who is sex-repulsed and assumes that all sexual people want to do is rape others. I'm almost certain the next time I log into Reddit I'll see more of this stuff.

 

This isn't "some". The fact that this is present in a frankly sizable community on Reddit should be enough of an indication of general thought on sexual people among our community.

You missed my point. I mean, you can't blame all (non-sex-favorable) asexuals collectively of wrong-doings of some.

 

Also, I was under impression we talked our community here on AVEN. I kinda have a feeling since reddit is more open, and not especially ace-themed, a lot of people find their ways there (I've never been to ace reddit). Some troll, others struggle with self-esteem issues, some just simply reject their personal negative experiences on others. I'm not defending any of them, yet I don't like the idea that aces in general are perceived that way. We can't help what others choose to do, and we can't be blamed for what they do.

 

I also agree with @dangerousPerson that most radical are heard most loudly, regardless the community. And that doesn't tell about the opinions of the silent majority.

52 minutes ago, AceWing said:

So you admit that the meme culture hinges on asexuals' potential disgust or contempt over sex and the people who are sexually attracted to others? It's not a good thing if the meme culture relies on disgust or sarcastic malice towards that demographic because not only does it eliminate comedic nuance, it further cements the many secret thoughts that asexuals might hold which we need to work on getting them to think critically about.

 

The assumption that you need to be sex-repulsed is not something that should need to be a requirement for humor, participation or a sense of belonging in the community. It also makes it sound like you're aware of how things generally are around here.

No, I said I've seen some memes like that. Not the majority. And imo, memes aren't the most crucial part of our AVEN community either. It's discussing, sharing experiences.

 

Yea, I agree. I meant, I thought I couldn't relate to those specific meme cases since I didn't have repulsed attitude towards sex. Not that it should be a requirement to get into anything humorous here, or that it was acceptable. I just assumed that's the reason behind the attitude of those individuals. Also, as I clearly stated before no, I haven't experienced a common negative attitude towards sex here on AVEN. Those memes were single cases, and thus I just scrolled over them without thinking it was a greater issue that needed to be addressed.

52 minutes ago, AceWing said:

It isn't a bad stereotype is that's the general opinion or consensus of that sect. I'm not blaming specifically you, so there's no need to defend yourself and ignore where this happens elsewhere. And yes, while I don't experience sexual urges, attractions, etc., I don't have a feeling of superiority over those who do. That's the main issue here. People find out they're asexual and they feel an immense sense of pride. That pride turns into indignation at perceived wrong-doings and then it turns into complete hatred. Discourse becomes unproductive with these people. 

No, that's precisly my point. I'm saying it's not okay to say that if you're not sex-favorable, you contribute to that attitude. I know I don't, but that doesn't prevent me from pointing out that's a negative stereotype of aces like me. It's not a consensus (can you specify what you mean by "that sect" tho?), how can you say that?

 

I just simply haven't seen aces having the popular attitude of them being superior. Maybe I don't talk on those threads, or maybe I'm not good enough reading "between the lines", who knows. The attitude I've seen, is happiness to finally meet someone like you, and looking back at your former experiences with peer support and realize where you went wrong when you were still on the closet/ didn't know yourself well enough yet. Most people I've met are pretty humble and just relieved they got what didn't work in their lives. If someone has ever went over the line, I've seen fellow aces asking them to be more considerate, and not seen others to agree. And these haven't been the majority of discussions, far from it, on my experience.

52 minutes ago, AceWing said:

It's not going to achieve anything if the community would rather have nothing to do with this line of discourse. No one has insulted me and I'm not blindly turning my frustration at everyone including innocents. Please don't make me look disorganized where a lack of organization doe snot exist. My rhetoric has a clear target and it's about the general attitude of aces towards sex and sexual people.

Exatly, I think you're wrong about the general attitude of aces. And of course it would, their voices would be heard regardless. And also, if the negative attitudes did exist, they would likely become more visible, and thus being better able to expose and correct them. What there's to lose to just talk about your personal experiences, just like any other ace here?

52 minutes ago, AceWing said:

No blame here, just acknowledgement and an attempt to have a dialogue about this.

But... isn't it blaming, if you blame majority of us having a hateful consensus?

52 minutes ago, AceWing said:

Sure, and that's your prerogative. That's something you personally would like to do because you're a fan of healthy discussions. I don't know the extent of how much you've spoken up, but that's not really important. What's more important is that the positive attitude you have is not shared by the majority of the community here even if it seems like it is. There can be no momentum if your level of critical thinking is not shared by a good chunk. I'm really trying to look for a different attitude in this community, but I'm not having luck. This isn't a sign in this case of just having a bad opinion or anything, it's a sign of complacency.

This is just a friendly suggestion, but even if you were right about majority having hateful attitude, I think no change will be achieved by blaming people collectively. I just genuinely believe that focusing on positive visibility makes more. I think that's all I can contribute to this conversation.

52 minutes ago, AceWing said:

Be sure you're looking at many ace resources. It's a circlejerk here and everywhere else. 

Could you suggest where to begin? ^^'

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the great acescape

@GatsbyGirl idk if this makes a difference at this point but pretty much 80% of what you mentioned in the op is stuff that I relate to very, very deeply and it's an issue I've run into while trying to build community in what few ace spaces I've been able to find, both IRL and online

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AceWing
21 minutes ago, naakka said:

You missed my point. I mean, you can't blame all (non-sex-favorable) asexuals collectively of wrong-doings of some.

In the context of the majority of content on the mediums I've been to, it's evident that this isn't some. I want you to read the comments OP has received here. There's me, Gatsby, Acescape, and others. This isn't blaming, this is pointing out an issue that we all have been seeing.

21 minutes ago, naakka said:

Also, I was under impression we talked our community here on AVEN. I kinda have a feeling since reddit is more open, and not especially ace-themed, a lot of people find their ways there (I've never been to ace reddit). Some troll, others struggle with self-esteem issues, some just simply reject their personal negative experiences on others.

That's exactly my issue and why I chose to submit the subreddit as evidence. Given the open nature of Reddit, you would think that attitudes like these would be less common or more challenged some more, but they're not. This indicates that the majority opinion is that of disliking sexual people in this community. Most "trolls" we get are people being purposefully overly sexual or "acephobes". I moderate the subreddit, so I have more insight on the activity we get.

21 minutes ago, naakka said:

No, I said I've seen some memes like that. Not the majority. And imo, memes aren't the most crucial part of our AVEN community either. It's discussing, sharing experiences.

And most of these memes are sardonic insults based on how someone feels about sexual beings, especially if you look at the Tumblr screencaps (which might be cheating, but it still exists). It brings in all sorts of irony to say that we shouldn't be discriminated against something we can't control, but somehow it's okay for us to do it.

21 minutes ago, naakka said:

Yea, I agree. I meant, I thought I couldn't relate to those specific meme cases since I didn't have repulsed attitude towards sex. Not that it should be a requirement to get into anything humorous here, or that it was acceptable. I just assumed that's the reason behind the attitude of those individuals. Also, as I clearly stated before no, I haven't experienced a common negative attitude towards sex here on AVEN. Those memes were single cases, and thus I just scrolled over them without thinking it was a greater issue that needed to be addressed.

It seems like it would be worse to not call out these attitudes, but calling them out could be unproductive. Lose-lose here.

21 minutes ago, naakka said:

No, that's precisly my point. I'm saying it's not okay to say that if you're not sex-favorable, you contribute to that attitude. I know I don't, but that doesn't prevent me from pointing out that's a negative stereotype of aces like me. It's not a consensus (can you specify what you mean by "that sect" tho?), how can you say that?

"Sect" as in that particular part of the community. And again, I never said you particularly were the problem, I'm pointing out that it's rhetoric that is present even if you don't see it because it is extremely subtle.

21 minutes ago, naakka said:

I just simply haven't seen aces having the popular attitude of them being superior. Maybe I don't talk on those threads, or maybe I'm not good enough reading "between the lines", who knows.

That does not mean it doesn't exist as a majority just because you haven't been able to detect it. If you're scrolling past memes of topics against sexual people and superiority, then it's likely you've scrolled past threads and discussions of the same thing.

21 minutes ago, naakka said:

Exatly, I think you're wrong about the general attitude of aces. And of course it would, their voices would be heard regardless. And also, if the negative attitudes did exist, they would likely become more visible, and thus being better able to expose and correct them.

Then why hasn't it? Remember, I'm not actively ignoring the posts on the subreddit or anywhere, I'm just not seeing it at all. 

21 minutes ago, naakka said:

But... isn't it blaming, if you blame majority of us having a hateful consensus?

No, it is once again acknowledgement of the situation and vibe here. Blaming is not the word you're looking for here.

21 minutes ago, naakka said:

This is just a friendly suggestion, but even if you were right about majority having hateful attitude, I think no change will be achieved by blaming people collectively. I just genuinely believe that focusing on positive visibility makes more. I think that's all I can contribute to this conversation.

If we want to reflect more effectively on positivity in the community, we have to find a way to turn the tides on fighting negativity instead of supporting it because memes.

21 minutes ago, naakka said:

Could you suggest where to begin? ^^'

I honestly don't have any particularly itinerary. I'd say wherever there's a platform, educate and think critically about every perspective you see wherever you go. Whether that's here, Reddit, IRL or anywhere else, just be sure you're reading between the lines and thinking critically.

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naakka
14 hours ago, AceWing said:

In the context of the majority of content on the mediums I've been to, it's evident that this isn't some. I want you to read the comments OP has received here. There's me, Gatsby, Acescape, and others. This isn't blaming, this is pointing out an issue that we all have been seeing.

Ok I'll check out replies on this thread!

14 hours ago, AceWing said:

That's exactly my issue and why I chose to submit the subreddit as evidence. Given the open nature of Reddit, you would think that attitudes like these would be less common or more challenged some more, but they're not. This indicates that the majority opinion is that of disliking sexual people in this community. Most "trolls" we get are people being purposefully overly sexual or "acephobes". I moderate the subreddit, so I have more insight on the activity we get.

As said, I'm not part of reddit ace community, nor tumblr ace community or others like that. So I can't comment on complains about these communities since I don't know. So if you want to spread conversation outside AVEN, I have nothing to say.

 

Anyhow, my general experience is, larger the online community, more easily all kind of overreactions happen. And opinions might be polarized to extremes over time. Because more population, more it connects also the (loud) extremes. Also, larger the community, people feel they are less responsible to correct each others, so these overreactions can happen without intervention. Which I still feel doesn't happen on AVEN today.

14 hours ago, AceWing said:

And most of these memes are sardonic insults based on how someone feels about sexual beings, especially if you look at the Tumblr screencaps (which might be cheating, but it still exists). It brings in all sorts of irony to say that we shouldn't be discriminated against something we can't control, but somehow it's okay for us to do it.

In wich areas of AVEN these memes happen most often? I feel like I don't read these meme threads you talk about. Of course it's not okay to be sardonic towards anyone. I just find it hard to believe no-one would interfere. 

14 hours ago, AceWing said:

It seems like it would be worse to not call out these attitudes, but calling them out could be unproductive. Lose-lose here.

What about focusing your own positive thing? It's also an option. I mean it's often the case that just when the majority gets more exposed the issues and experiences of the minority, they get to better understand them, and maybe even without asking, consider that group more in the future when talking about certain issues. Is that impossible in your opinion? You just simply don't see this as a good idea? The only way to improve things is to prove others are bad? Or is it a justice/pride issue so "just focusing your own thing" isn't satisfying enough?

14 hours ago, AceWing said:

"Sect" as in that particular part of the community. And again, I never said you particularly were the problem, I'm pointing out that it's rhetoric that is present even if you don't see it because it is extremely subtle.

And I'm saying, even if I was absolved from these complaints, it's not good enough since it's implied everyone else is still under suspicion. Apologizes for nitpicking, but "what particular part of the community"? The ones who have sex-negative attitude? Yea I agree, among those people it would be a consensus sex is a bad thing :D but the way it's been worded here, says that everyone's collectively responsible. Even in this comment, that is being implied, with "the subtle rethoric". And thay's what I disagree with. 

14 hours ago, AceWing said:

That does not mean it doesn't exist as a majority just because you haven't been able to detect it. If you're scrolling past memes of topics against sexual people and superiority, then it's likely you've scrolled past threads and discussions of the same thing.

Well that's true. Also the fact that I don't visit all areas here. I'm not saying it definitely doesn't happen here at all. What I'm saying, I don't think it's some sort of consensus or popular opinion here. Otherwise I think I'd been also unwelcomed here already. Or different areas must have completely different user base?

14 hours ago, AceWing said:

Then why hasn't it? Remember, I'm not actively ignoring the posts on the subreddit or anywhere, I'm just not seeing it at all. 

Because of sex-favorable aces don't really talk about their experiences. I've seen just a couple of posts here, in addition to this one. Which makes me think they're either a very small monority or they're elsewhere. The point I've tried to make this whole time, I think they should focus on visibility, to help their case. That's the only way out I can come up with.

14 hours ago, AceWing said:

No, it is once again acknowledgement of the situation and vibe here. Blaming is not the word you're looking for here.

You can't tell me it doesn't feel like blaming the whole community collectively, if I do feel this way. Even if you were a moderator, and thus saw way more bullshit than I did, it's only your perception (maybe because of it's especially your job?), and you can't tell me I shouldn't feel this way about the claim. You can't generalize a whole community like that. And even take other sites into play to prove your point here.

14 hours ago, AceWing said:

If we want to reflect more effectively on positivity in the community, we have to find a way to turn the tides on fighting negativity instead of supporting it because memes.

I still struggle to see how memes were the main medium of AVEN, and valued so high inside the community. So you simply disagree that speaking up more about your sex-favored experiences could make any good? No use to try even?

14 hours ago, AceWing said:

I honestly don't have any particularly itinerary. I'd say wherever there's a platform, educate and think critically about every perspective you see wherever you go. Whether that's here, Reddit, IRL or anywhere else, just be sure you're reading between the lines and thinking critically.

After all this blaming, you really should have some practical evidence. Especially here on AVEN, since that's the only site I've talked about during this whole conversation. "Just read between the lines" is not good enough. It's just an advice to aim my focus on negative expectations (circle of expectations or self-fulfilling prophecy on psychology). Sure thing I'll be critical as possible in the future. But I think that's what I've been also to this day. So I think I won't magically start seeing the things you want me to, without any further evidence.

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naakka
14 hours ago, AceWing said:

In the context of the majority of content on the mediums I've been to, it's evident that this isn't some. I want you to read the comments OP has received here. There's me, Gatsby, Acescape, and others. This isn't blaming, this is pointing out an issue that we all have been seeing.

Ok I read comments on this thread, and I'm wondering is this thread really what you meant. The vast majority of replies she got were either sharing similar experience of being sex-favorable, or explaining why they find AVEN an important place even if ace is not their whole identity, or talking about the subject from medical point of view. I saw no sign of elitist or superior mindset, but just acceptance and support. Can you please explain?

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Kimagine
On 3/6/2020 at 3:26 PM, GatsbyGirl said:

But since I have never been sexually attracted to someone and that I think I have a low ass libido so it makes me feel like I dont fit under sexual as well. I just sorta feel outta place. 

So I'm gonna be honest, I felt like this a lot in my late teens, wasn't sure if what I felt was sexual or sensual a lot of the time, or if I was sexual but just had an extremely low libido. Never met people in real life that I found sexually attractive. Get through college, still confused. Think I'm not ace because XYZ, but I might be ace because ABC. Learning grey-asexuality was a thing opened up the world to me. Turns out I'm hella in the grey zone. I have a happy functioning relationship with someone I am attracted to right now, but he's one of 3 men I've dated that I found myself sexually attracted to, and I spent a good 4 years going on tinder dates every other weekend.  If you're still young, get out and meet people. You will go on MANY, MANY bad dates that make you feel uncomfortable but the more you go on, and the more you go home and reflect on those dates, the more you will be able to narrow down what you truly want out of relationships, whatever that may be. It sucks, but that way when the opportunity to get whatever it is you want presents itself, you will know enough to be able to snag it.

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DarkGloomSquid

@Kimagine Thank you :)❤️ 

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AceWing
On 3/22/2020 at 2:58 AM, naakka said:

Anyhow, my general experience is, larger the online community, more easily all kind of overreactions happen. And opinions might be polarized to extremes over time. Because more population, more it connects also the (loud) extremes.

We're still not that large, considering. And yes, loud majority or whatever is more common, but the skepticism should be louder.

On 3/22/2020 at 2:58 AM, naakka said:

Also, larger the community, people feel they are less responsible to correct each others, so these overreactions can happen without intervention. Which I still feel doesn't happen on AVEN today.

That's what the problem is. AVEN didn't use to do this until damage control kicked in. Why are people less responsible to correct others? Because the larger a community is, the more of a circlejerk it becomes. I guess we've considered ourselves large enough a long time ago while complaining about how small we are to become this.

On 3/22/2020 at 2:58 AM, naakka said:

What about focusing your own positive thing? It's also an option. I mean it's often the case that just when the majority gets more exposed the issues and experiences of the minority, they get to better understand them, and maybe even without asking, consider that group more in the future when talking about certain issues. Is that impossible in your opinion? You just simply don't see this as a good idea? The only way to improve things is to prove others are bad? Or is it a justice/pride issue so "just focusing your own thing" isn't satisfying enough?

Focusing your own thing does nothing when the experiences of others and myself are discounted immensely. Everything you stated could happen and it has happened before, but as far as my experiences have gone, while there are certainly those who speak out against this (Like the comments from Gatsby, Acescape, et al that I directed you to), they are others that always have something to say to us. After a while of having the same rhetoric thrown our way endless times, others probably would've given up. Also, how are we gonna be able to expose the majority if we don't prove that others are bad and promoting that behavior? Do we ignore it and stay in our own "circlejerks" as well? I guess we don't speak out anymore? That seems to be the implication I'm getting here.

On 3/22/2020 at 2:58 AM, naakka said:

And I'm saying, even if I was absolved from these complaints, it's not good enough since it's implied everyone else is still under suspicion.

Only those uncritical or saturated meme culture fall into that category, and that's a lot of people.

On 3/22/2020 at 2:58 AM, naakka said:

Apologizes for nitpicking, but "what particular part of the community"? The ones who have sex-negative attitude? Yea I agree, among those people it would be a consensus sex is a bad thing :D but the way it's been worded here, says that everyone's collectively responsible. Even in this comment, that is being implied, with "the subtle rethoric". And thay's what I disagree with. 

It's not that they think sex is bad, it's that they think those who want sex are bad. Bash the allosexuals, talk about how we're not getting laid!

On 3/22/2020 at 2:58 AM, naakka said:

After all this blaming, you really should have some practical evidence. Especially here on AVEN, since that's the only site I've talked about during this whole conversation. "Just read between the lines" is not good enough. It's just an advice to aim my focus on negative expectations (circle of expectations or self-fulfilling prophecy on psychology). Sure thing I'll be critical as possible in the future. But I think that's what I've been also to this day. So I think I won't magically start seeing the things you want me to, without any further evidence.

Ah, there's that elusive blame game again. And while that last sentence isn't true, I spent some time going through Reddit alone and looking through some old threads to find from just the subreddit I moderate alone. I also found some miscellaneous stuff, too. There should be no room for misinterpretation. I might have to PM these to you because I can't copy my ZIP on here, so be prepared to receive these as soon as I find a way to get them to you. Yes, you'll see people calling them out, but note the impact it has. Quality over quantity is my philosophy. 

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naakka
12 hours ago, AceWing said:

We're still not that large, considering. And yes, loud majority or whatever is more common, but the skepticism should be louder.

 

That's what the problem is. AVEN didn't use to do this until damage control kicked in. Why are people less responsible to correct others? Because the larger a community is, the more of a circlejerk it becomes. I guess we've considered ourselves large enough a long time ago while complaining about how small we are to become this.

No, loud extremes. The ones that seem to be majority since their opinions are most polarized and they have most passion to ensure everyone will hear them. Yea it should, but it's just a law of nature in big anonymous community. Which doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed if we recognized it's a problem and pointed that out.

 

In larger community people feel less reaponsible since they don't all know each others so well anymore. It's a law of nature. For example, a company with 10 people will probably never rip of the workers that much, meanwhile an international mega company has it taken for granted that workers on the lowest level on production line (on another country) will be ripped of, practically be working without salary or having kids working etc. It would never happen in the 10 person company, even if it was legally possible. 

 

Where I'm coming at these both cases, sometimes negative effect are to be expected if your community grows big enough. But it doesn't mean they were acceptable or that you couldn't change it by communicating. Anyhow, either I've been on completely differe t threads or am completely blind, but I can't recall a case here on AVEN where a majority of people agreed being sex-favorable was a bad thing (just something you might personally can't relate to). Also, what damage control you talk about?

 

12 hours ago, AceWing said:

Focusing your own thing does nothing when the experiences of others and myself are discounted immensely. Everything you stated could happen and it has happened before, but as far as my experiences have gone, while there are certainly those who speak out against this (Like the comments from Gatsby, Acescape, et al that I directed you to), they are others that always have something to say to us. After a while of having the same rhetoric thrown our way endless times, others probably would've given up. Also, how are we gonna be able to expose the majority if we don't prove that others are bad and promoting that behavior? Do we ignore it and stay in our own "circlejerks" as well? I guess we don't speak out anymore? That seems to be the implication I'm getting here.

I didn't get any comments, did you try to PM me? Also, obviously it's your experience that some people will speak against you. But just keep talking. There will be people who will be listening to your experiences, and you also get a practical chance to point out those who try to silence you. So yes, ignore it and keep talking. There's no reason to stay on your own circles, there's a plenty of threads to tell your common everyday stuff at, and people regardless romantic/sexual orientation read them ("incredible ace moments", "asexual problems" are the most popular I guess). Graphic stuff might be prohibited, but I think you can talk about sexuality without going graphic? I still find it hard to believe, that if you just go there and just tell about your daily experiences around your sexuality (without pointing at others by finger), people would oppose. Has that really happened before? I have been talking about libido, and also about high libido of asexuals before, and no-one has ever opposed me here on AVEN.

12 hours ago, AceWing said:

Only those uncritical or saturated meme culture fall into that category, and that's a lot of people.

Ok finally you admit it's a specific area and not some shared consensus on the every corner of AVEN since that's not my experience. Without defending anyone's behavior, could it be that meme culture areas (here and elsewhere) are skewed towards younger people? I really don't feel like ace community has shown any of the narrow-mindnessess to me you have experienced. Could it be that people who are attracted towards meme culture are also looking for easy black-and-white answers? Young people, who are questioning themselves or people who still don't know who they are, might feel attraction towards fast memes who seem to offer easy explanations (while lacking any depth)? I have never been to meme areas of AVEN, and just yeasterday I found the first meme thread when I searched it.

12 hours ago, AceWing said:

It's not that they think sex is bad, it's that they think those who want sex are bad. Bash the allosexuals, talk about how we're not getting laid!

Whatever, it's still not my experience that majority of people agree with that. And as I've said before, not relating to something personally doesn't equal thinking that the thing itself is bad.

12 hours ago, AceWing said:

Ah, there's that elusive blame game again. And while that last sentence isn't true, I spent some time going through Reddit alone and looking through some old threads to find from just the subreddit I moderate alone. I also found some miscellaneous stuff, too. There should be no room for misinterpretation. I might have to PM these to you because I can't copy my ZIP on here, so be prepared to receive these as soon as I find a way to get them to you. Yes, you'll see people calling them out, but note the impact it has. Quality over quantity is my philosophy. 

It's not evidence if you only looked for it yourself and didn't share it with anyone. Just link those bad threads here so everyone can see them, it shouldn't be difficult?

The impact, is it people being called out opposing it? So what? If they can't apologize, it's their problem. There's also moderators to call time-out, if they're being really rude. Anyhow, are you saying blaming everyone collectively is more effective than pointing out the people who actually are rude? Since it sounds like that. (And regardless effectiveness, it's not fair.)

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HikaruBG

[I was thinking of quoting several paragraphs here, but they are so many and I'm on my phone currently, this format of the comment seem to be a better option instead.]

 

@AceWing

I agree with everything that you said. There are reasons why I don't like the asexual sub-reddits and even downvote literally any post I happened to come across. These places are nothing but echochambers of special snowflakes and bandwagons, and "anything goes", and much much worse.

Spoiler

I have literally seen some people on Reddit claiming that "sex is just masturbation with extra steps", outright implying that they just consider others (a.i. the people thsy have sex with) as nothing more than tools.

 

I have seen a similar atitude here once before but at least they didn't use just a vulgar language (although the message was the same).

 

This kind of borderline sociopathic behaviour in a certain part of the Ace Community is incredibly baffling for me.

 

It's already bad that people are calling asexuals sociopaths for not wanting to have sex with others but apparently now people will start calling asexuals sociopaths for using others as a means to an end (a.i. orgasm or sex) because of these people.

It's even worse when they use certain terms interchangeably (like sex-possitive/sex-favourite, sex-neutral/sex-indifferent and sex-repulsed/sex-negative), it's so fucking frustrating as a sex-possitive and sex-repulsed asexual.

And to see other sex-repulsed asexuals acting like the way you said (further fueling the impression that all sex-repulsed asexuals are sex-negative, even anti-sexual in some case), is just.... I have no words.

 

They are the main reasons that makes me feel shamed of ever calling myself asexual and find myself hating at least half of the Ace Movement because of that.

 

Does this count a "Internalised Acephobia" (or whatever it is called)? Idk.

 

Also, for the whole "misrepresentation" issue, I don't think that you can really solve that issue.

The misrepresentations of Asexuality (all from the different sub-communities, such as AVEN itself, the different sub-reddits on Reddit and so on, the articles that are going around spreading more misinformation, character representation in fiction, ect., all of it) has always been something of an issue.

It's either Asexuality being represented in a very negative light or it is being represented in a very "possitive" (more like dishonest.... where Asexuality is purposely represented in an inaccurate way so that society, and the LGBT+ as an extension, can accept it.... when they refused to accept the more accurate representation in the past) light.

 

 

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naakka
7 hours ago, HikaruBG said:

It's even worse when they use certain terms interchangeably (like sex-possitive/sex-favourite, sex-neutral/sex-indifferent and sex-repulsed/sex-negative), it's so fucking frustrating as a sex-possitive and sex-repulsed asexual.

And to see other sex-repulsed asexuals acting like the way you said (further fueling the impression that all sex-repulsed asexuals are sex-negative, even anti-sexual in some case), is just.... I have no words.

I agree it's important to note the difference between these terms. It's not easy tho, even I noticed a few times accidentally writing "sex-positive" when I meant "sex-favorable". But if we paid more attention to the different meanings of the terms, slowly they would get better recognized?

 

7 hours ago, HikaruBG said:

It's either Asexuality being represented in a very negative light or it is being represented in a very "possitive" (more like dishonest.... where Asexuality is purposely represented in an inaccurate way so that society, and the LGBT+ as an extension, can accept it.... when they refused to accept the more accurate representation in the past) light.

Okay if we're going to talk about every ace community out there, I might as well add mine 😁 I saw a video about Japanese ace, where he was purposefully representing himself very innocent and blue-eyed. Instead of diving deeply into what it means to be ace, he was represented as a very one-dimensional character, and answer to every question was "of course he wouldn't, he's ace, hahaha!". I know that characters and mascots are a huge thing in Japan, and moreover child-likeness and innocence are seen as positive traits. Thus videos like this are probably an easy way to represent a minority for the majority in a way that get's positive welcoming. Yet, no-one actually learns what it means (and doesn't mean) to be ace, or that all of us aren't the same. So yea, giving a "positive" representation can be a probem.

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HikaruBG
12 hours ago, naakka said:

I agree it's important to note the difference between these terms. It's not easy tho, even I noticed a few times accidentally writing "sex-positive" when I meant "sex-favorable". But if we paid more attention to the different meanings of the terms, slowly they would get better recognized?

But the thing is, you at least pay attention and know while the people in the asexual sub-reddits? For them, it's just sex-possitive, sex-indifferent, sex-aversed/sex-repulsed and nothing else. If you tell them that no, one is about the political view on sex and the other is about the personal attitude towards sex, they will throw a tantrum saying that it's not up to you to dictate these things (even if it's an objectively correct way to look at it) or something similar.

Not to mention that they low-key have a hate boner for AVEN (I guess they don't like the definitions of Asexuality, Sexual Attration and so on here), and come up with their own definitions, pretending that they have more authority on this.

 

I think that the main issue with the asexual sub-reddits is that most of the members there (60%-80%) are mainly young people who have very limited understanding on sexuality in general.

 

12 hours ago, naakka said:

Okay if we're going to talk about every ace community out there, I might as well add mine 😁 I saw a video about Japanese ace, where he was purposefully representing himself very innocent and blue-eyed. Instead of diving deeply into what it means to be ace, he was represented as a very one-dimensional character, and answer to every question was "of course he wouldn't, he's ace, hahaha!". I know that characters and mascots are a huge thing in Japan, and moreover child-likeness and innocence are seen as positive traits. Thus videos like this are probably an easy way to represent a minority for the majority in a way that get's positive welcoming. Yet, no-one actually learns what it means (and doesn't mean) to be ace, or that all of us aren't the same. So yea, giving a "positive" representation can be a probem.

Funny, because I have seen the Japanese media representating Asexuality way more accurate then the Western media.

I know at least 3 examples/characters (who are explicitly stated to be asexuals or are suspected by other characters to be asexuals In-Universe) in the Japanese media, that accurately represents asexuals.

Spoiler

Medaka Kuromi from Medaka Box - suspected asexual by the characters (because she is immune to Love Inducement) but is obviously heteroromantic (has a romantic crush on Zenkichi since they were kids... It's even implied that they would marry at the end). Potentially biromantic because, despite that she has crush on her childhood friend, she didn't have any issues kissing a girl (Mogana Kikaijima), and even going to the amusement park with her (especially since Medaka has never been to one before).

 

Akihito Kanzaki from Devil's line - explicitly stated to be homoromantic asexual as he has a "coming out" moment to his romantic partner.

 

Futaba Kiryuu from Kiryuu-sensei wa Renai ga Wakaranai (Kiryuu-sensei Doesn’t Understand Love) - aromantic asexual mangaka artist/writer In-Universe.

Meanwhile, the Western media represents asexuals as boring, sociopaths (the BBC Sherlock Holmes is like that, I think, as many fans seems to be interpretating him as this, even tho the writer denied it because he considered asexuality boring), psychopaths (Dexter), freaks and so on. In some cases, they would rather not represent their characters asexual, even if the official source material says otherwise (Archie comics anyone?). Western media are also more likely (IMO) to represents asexuals as pure and innocent because of the whole "Religion and Purity" shtick.

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AceWing
20 hours ago, HikaruBG said:

 

@AceWing

I agree with everything that you said. There are reasons why I don't like the asexual sub-reddits and even downvote literally any post I happened to come across. These places are nothing but echochambers of special snowflakes and bandwagons, and "anything goes", and much much worse.

Finally, someone who isn't trying to "speak for the trees" on this slowly contorting community. I was getting sick of the discussion I had going on a while ago, so i'm glad it isn't just me on the same boat. I'd be careful about downvoting every single post in the future as some content and discussion could be sincere and enjoyable. Most of the time it isn't, so I understand at the same time.

20 hours ago, HikaruBG said:
  Reveal hidden contents

I have literally seen some people on Reddit claiming that "sex is just masturbation with extra steps", outright implying that they just consider others (a.i. the people thsy have sex with) as nothing more than tools.

 

I have seen a similar atitude here once before but at least they didn't use just a vulgar language (although the message was the same).

 

This kind of borderline sociopathic behaviour in a certain part of the Ace Community is incredibly baffling for me.

 

It's already bad that people are calling asexuals sociopaths for not wanting to have sex with others but apparently now people will start calling asexuals sociopaths for using others as a means to an end (a.i. orgasm or sex) because of these people.

It's even worse when they use certain terms interchangeably (like sex-possitive/sex-favourite, sex-neutral/sex-indifferent and sex-repulsed/sex-negative), it's so fucking frustrating as a sex-possitive and sex-repulsed asexual.

And to see other sex-repulsed asexuals acting like the way you said (further fueling the impression that all sex-repulsed asexuals are sex-negative, even anti-sexual in some case), is just.... I have no words.

 

They are the main reasons that makes me feel shamed of ever calling myself asexual and find myself hating at least half of the Ace Movement because of that.

 

Does this count a "Internalised Acephobia" (or whatever it is called)? Idk.

No, this counts as common sense gleamed from observation and an understanding of activism combined with arrogance.

20 hours ago, HikaruBG said:

 

Also, for the whole "misrepresentation" issue, I don't think that you can really solve that issue.

I think the main thing here is just spreading nuanced information and letting others know that there's more to us. Unfortunately, because memery is abound in the community, real discourse and discussion of conceptual ace philosophies is often drowned out or over-simplified. 

20 hours ago, HikaruBG said:

It's either Asexuality being represented in a very negative light or it is being represented in a very "possitive" (more like dishonest.... where Asexuality is purposely represented in an inaccurate way so that society, and the LGBT+ as an extension, can accept it.... when they refused to accept the more accurate representation in the past) light.

More dishonest on the fact that asexuality is often portrayed as the more "enlightened" lack of sexuality than anything else.

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naakka

Uh, sounds like it's a good thing I never visited ace reddit 😅 

 

18 hours ago, HikaruBG said:

I think that the main issue with the asexual sub-reddits is that most of the members there (60%-80%) are mainly young people who have very limited understanding on sexuality in general.

Yea, I guess "fast-to-consume" and black-and-white stuff like memes attract more young people? And writing long comments and really understanding the matter (and each others) deeply is usually us older folks? 😁 I think (hope) some of them will grow out of it and start looking for more shades between the black and white. But it's conserning if a site has very totalitarian point of view in the issue, so it might mislead them for a long time and they might end up as lost with their issues as before reddit.

18 hours ago, HikaruBG said:

Funny, because I have seen the Japanese media representating Asexuality way more accurate then the Western media.

I know at least 3 examples/characters (who are explicitly stated to be asexuals or are suspected by other characters to be asexuals In-Universe) in the Japanese media, that accurately represents asexuals.

Well that's great to hear! I guess the series I saw really didn't focus on educating people but rather entertaining. It's the only Japanese ace thing I've seen, so I really can't say I knew much 😅

18 hours ago, HikaruBG said:

Meanwhile, the Western media represents asexuals as boring, sociopaths (the BBC Sherlock Holmes is like that, I think, as many fans seems to be interpretating him as this, even tho the writer denied it because he considered asexuality boring), psychopaths (Dexter), freaks and so on. In some cases, they would rather not represent their characters asexual, even if the official source material says otherwise (Archie comics anyone?). Western media are also more likely (IMO) to represents asexuals as pure and innocent because of the whole "Religion and Purity" shtick.

Yeah sure, the western presentation definitely isn't good. I actually first heard about Archie's comics due to that ace erasure case, must be so frustrating for the fans of the comics 😓 but of course worse are the cases where the author describes an ace character negative way. 

And yea, I've personally faced some of that religious purity mentality myself, also so frustrating 😑

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naakka
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, AceWing said:

Finally, someone who isn't trying to "speak for the trees" on this slowly contorting community. I was getting sick of the discussion I had going on a while ago, so i'm glad it isn't just me on the same boat. I'd be careful about downvoting every single post in the future as some content and discussion could be sincere and enjoyable. Most of the time it isn't, so I understand at the same time.

Honestly, I don't understand why you have so negative view on the discussion? I think it was just mainly a misunderstanding when I thought you were blaming (everyone) on AVEN while you were talking about other communities around the net? The only thing I opposed was you telling that it's some ruling consensus here that aces despise sex-favored aces (by some subtle invisible ways), or that everyone of us is responsible on the wrong-doings of some. I was confused since that wasn't my personal experience of AVEN, I'd seen just peer support and people who want to understand each others and solve their personal issues. Either way, I wish you don't prepare to down vote every comment here either 😁 (or are you talking about reddit again?)

Edited by naakka
Facepalm you must be talking about reddit since you can't downvote on AVEN lol.

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hypnopompic
On 3/7/2020 at 10:54 PM, GatsbyGirl said:

Im interested in sex like I am interested in scuba diving, I want to see what its like and if I would like it or not. Would that make me lean more towards the allo side?

I  relate so much to that first part of your sentence that I could have written it myself. But the fact that you compare sex to scuba diving is a clear indication (at least for me) that you cannot be an allosexual. Your interest in sex seems to be fuelled by curiosity and not the sexy adventurous kind but more the scientific, intellectually challenging kind. To me, learning how to successfully have a sexual encounter was like learning an instrument or learning how to cook. It was a new, intriguing skill to aquire to extend my knowledge and abilities. That is, from what my friends have told me, not the usual perception of sex.

 

Also, this: "I like making sexual jokes, I like writing smut, I like reading smut. I have no problems with sex. I wanna try it one day."

I tell and (most of the time) get sexual jokes, I laugh at them, I think they can be hilarious. I've never tried writing smut but if it's tastefully done, I enjoy reading it a lot. I've had sex with two different partners, so for a while, I seriously questioned if I could really qualify as "asexual" since some part of me was clearly okay with sex and everything revolving around it. Heck, I even started watching porn with my first boyfriend because he was so into it that I was intrigued. And yet, all of this still doesn't change the fact that I'm 100% asexual.

 

How can I tell? Same way you do: We don't feel sexual attraction for another person. I, at least, don't get that magnetic pull, that rush of desire when looking at someone, even if I truly like and even love them. Was I still intrigued by sex? Yes. Am I still interested after trying it out? Nope. Trust me, after having had sex several times, you will quickly realise if you are asexual or not, especially when watching your allosexual partner's reactions compared to your own. To me, it was all so unspectacular and disappointing that the first thing I said to my ex-boyfriend afterwards was: "Why are people writing songs about this?" while he seemed rather blown away by this whole experience 😅

 

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DarkGloomSquid

@hypnopompic thank you :) that really gave me some insight.

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Someone Else

I agree with what Gatsbygirl and hypnopompic said about sex, it's very close to my own views.   
I'd say that I'm (probably, but how would I know for sure?) as attracted to women as any straight guy; except that I am completely uninterested in anyone's genitals.  It's hard to say that this makes me asexual, but it's (I think) extremely odd for a sexual person as well.
Most sexual people don't say "I'm only interested in what's between the legs, everything else about his/her body can be whatever and I won't care."  There are probably some people so damn horny that they might say this, but generally, there's a "whole package" concept, like a sexy butt, or men liking breasts, a pretty face, or whatever -- lots of physical attributes contribute cooperatively toward the sense of lust/sexual attraction.  I'm just like that, with one part removed from the equation -- the genitals.  I don't see the attraction there.  So I'm probably in some kind of grey middle ground that isn't truly excluded or included fully in this or that.   
My point of view seems to be, at best, disappointing to both sexuals and asexual most of the time, so my attempts to find any kind of more-than-platonic fully satisfying intimacy have not gone well.  My "other half" is elusive.  

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