What is hard work?

[Snao Cone]

Hard work is glorified and bragged about. If you work hard you deserve the respect of everyone. Hard work is (supposedly) rewarded. But what is hard work? Where is the line that makes work hard? How is the value of work measured to determine if it qualifies?

 

There is an image of hard work that is rugged masculine physical labour, symbolized by the sweat of one's brow. Then there is an image of hard work that is about the compensation received, that if someone is a millionaire they must have worked for it, even though such results usually don't come from doing physical work (but perhaps managing others who do). We're told good grades come from hard work. People with a particular physique that is deemed "physically fit" are presumed to put harder work into obtaining that body than people with less praise-worthy bodies. How much of this is true?

 

I have always had a hard time acknowledging whether I have put in "hard work". A number of intellectual skills came naturally to me as a kid, and some of that manifested in university and the workplace as well. Some things I can pick up more easily than others, and I've chosen paths based on that (or so I tell myself). I've had lower-paying jobs that were less skill-demanding than I wanted, and my guilty conscience scolded me for the laziness that led to such underachievement, with disregard for external factors.

 

I have worked with people who used their origin stories of personal struggle to justify their worth as being based on hard work. I have also worked with people who used their earnings and the respectability of their profession to justify their worth as being based on hard work. Does one hold more weight than the other? If I'm somewhere in the middle, does that mean I don't work hard? If I get through things relatively unscathed, does that mean I worked hard towards a reasonably successful outcome, or that I failed to put in effort? My looming midlife crisis is depending on this sense of hard work and worthiness of dignity and respect, and I am lost in determining exactly what hard work is.

[uhtred]

I think there are lots of different types of "hard work" an the related "stress" .  Manual labor is hard, but in some ways not that stressful - you do what you have to do.  For me the most stressful work is where a mistake on my part will cause other people to suffer.  (which is why I could never be a doctor).     Long hours, even if not locally very difficult can also count as "hard work".   

 

I found working long hours outdoors in the arctic under physically stressful and somewhat dangerous conditions to be less "stressful" and in some ways less "hard" than worrying about which of my employees I might need to lay off if  couldn't find a new source of funding for my group. 

 

I think what really matters is if you are making an effort to apply our abilities in a useful way. 

[Lord Jade Cross]

Save yourself the mental torture, dont look for a definition to an ambiguous term or you will drive yourself over the edge (trust me, Ive tried) 

[Snao Cone]

5 minutes ago, uhtred said:

I think what really matters is if you are making an effort to apply our abilities in a useful way. 

Does something require some sort of struggling to count as effort, though? In my last job I was the person people came to for answers because I was just simply better at thinking of ways to do things. It wasn't that I put more time into it. My natural way of thinking approached problem solving differently from them, so I came to different conclusions that happened to work. Sometimes in that job I was so efficient that I had less work to do than other people, so I did things like checking AVEN or Twitter on my phone. Ultimately I got the same amount of work done, if nothing more. 

 

In my current job, I'm still learning and thus I'm getting a fair number of things wrong, or I'm doing a sub-optimal job due to lack of exposure/experience. Is that still hard work? I'm applying my abilities, but that's not very useful at this point. (I know the rational answer to this, but it's still a piece of the protestant guilt that has taken ever so deep of a seat in my psyche.)

[ThatGoofyGuy]

I think people who are working hard (meaning with a lot of effort into whatever they do) must be respected, no matter what social recognition they get. However, I think the whole "work hard and you will be rewarded" idea isn't true. To be efficient in whatever you are doing, working "smart" is just as important, if not more important than working hard. When it come to success in your career, other parameters such as charisma, social connexions and even chance are to be considered.

[LeChat]

37 minutes ago, Snao Cone said:

...In my current job, I'm still learning and thus I'm getting a fair number of things wrong, or I'm doing a sub-optimal job due to lack of exposure/experience. Is that still hard work?...

Sure, because you're making an effort to do better at your job and aren't giving up and trying to do things yourself (compared to, say, an employee who might try to pass off their work to another co-worker, instead). 

 

And, if I remember correctly, you also have epilepsy, so trying to live a life and perform a job while having a disability does make a difference, as far as making certain life situations, jobs, etc. more difficult, compared to others who don't have that medical condition or a disability.

 

Quote

...Hard work is glorified and bragged about. If you work hard you deserve the respect of everyone. Hard work is (supposedly) rewarded...

Hmm...not always...for example, fast food/retail/warehouse employees; even though they work for companies that earn high profits, they don't receive higher wages.

 

The reason "hard work" might be mentioned more is because, I think, minimum wage employees are trying to highlight the fact to others in society that, even though they work hard, many hours on their feet (which causes physical pain), not only expected to serve food to customers, but to also mop floors and clean restrooms, that they're still receiving minimum wage--or below--for it (and that they can't afford to take time off or miss a day of work without pay in order to see a doctor for their physical pain from their job duties).

[ThatGoofyGuy]

24 minutes ago, Snao Cone said:

Does something require some sort of struggling to count as effort, though? In my last job I was the person people came to for answers because I was just simply better at thinking of ways to do things. It wasn't that I put more time into it. My natural way of thinking approached problem solving differently from them, so I came to different conclusions that happened to work. Sometimes in that job I was so efficient that I had less work to do than other people, so I did things like checking AVEN or Twitter on my phone. Ultimately I got the same amount of work done, if nothing more. 

 

In my current job, I'm still learning and thus I'm getting a fair number of things wrong, or I'm doing a sub-optimal job due to lack of exposure/experience. Is that still hard work? I'm applying my abilities, but that's not very useful at this point. (I know the rational answer to this, but it's still a piece of the protestant guilt that has taken ever so deep of a seat in my psyche.)

 

Jade Cross is right, you shouldn't torture yourself with this idea. You are sub-optimal in your current position ? That's perfectly normal, you are still learning your job ! Guess what, I've changed my job recently and I'm sub-optimal too. However, I'm learning fast, and according to my oldest collegue in a year or so I'll be just as efficient as anyone.

 

You know, most of my life I've suffered a severe anxiety disorder, especially job related anxiety. As a result I've got a hard time finding jobs, and when I had the chance to do what I wanted to do, I was so anxious that I was like paralysed. Of course, it never ended well for me. One day I realised that the less I cared about something, the better I was. I decided to look for a job I couldn't care less about. I managed to find one, and I almost never experienced anxiety at work anymore. Actually, I'm probably more efficent in my current job than I was in most of my previous ones. So, just do your best when you are at work, and when you go home, don't think about it. You don't have to feel any shame.

[Alejandrogynous]

There's that saying, "work smarter, not harder," which I think is good advice but it doesn't mean that working "smarter" isn't its own brand of hard work. Choosing jobs that fall into your natural abilities or skillset is smart but it doesn't mean your work is somehow less respectable because you're not working as "hard" as someone who struggles at those same tasks. It just means you've chosen what kind of hard work comes most naturally to you (physical/mental/emotional/etc.) so you get the most out of what you do with the least stress/damage in return, based on your personal priorities. Some people find physical work exhausting while others will find mental or emotional work more draining, but none are objectively more difficult than the others.

For me, I have a somewhat "easy" job that doesn't require a lot of effort on my part, which some could say makes me lazy when I could be making way more money if I worked "harder" in a different field. But given that I've done that in the past and hated it, I choose a lower-paying job that gives me the quality of life I want instead of always being stressed over work. It doesn't mean I don't work hard, but part of that hard work was figuring out what kind of work provides the best environment for me, so now I don't HAVE to always put in the maximum effort. Maybe somewhere down the line I'll start to feel bored with not being challenged enough, but for now it works for me.

 

In the end, I think as long as you do your job sufficiently and feel fulfilled by the work you put in, you're doing it right.

[Skycaptain]

Hard work is something where you're exerting yourself, whether it involves muscles, brains, going outside your comfort zone. Outcome is irrelevant, it's putting the effort in 

[Sally]

Hard work implies effort, not result.  That effort can lead to an optimal result or to plain dreck.  It doesn't imply knowledge or experience, since you may be working hard while either being ignorant of the job's requirements, or while having aced those requirements.  

 

 

[Calligraphette_Coe]

5 hours ago, Snao Cone said:

Hard work is glorified and bragged about. If you work hard you deserve the respect of everyone. Hard work is (supposedly) rewarded. But what is hard work? Where is the line that makes work hard? How is the value of work measured to determine if it qualifies?

 

There is an image of hard work that is rugged masculine physical labour, symbolized by the sweat of one's brow. Then there is an image of hard work that is about the compensation received, that if someone is a millionaire they must have worked for it, even though such results usually don't come from doing physical work (but perhaps managing others who do). We're told good grades come from hard work. People with a particular physique that is deemed "physically fit" are presumed to put harder work into obtaining that body than people with less praise-worthy bodies. How much of this is true?

 

I have always had a hard time acknowledging whether I have put in "hard work". A number of intellectual skills came naturally to me as a kid, and some of that manifested in university and the workplace as well. Some things I can pick up more easily than others, and I've chosen paths based on that (or so I tell myself). I've had lower-paying jobs that were less skill-demanding than I wanted, and my guilty conscience scolded me for the laziness that led to such underachievement, with disregard for external factors.

 

I have worked with people who used their origin stories of personal struggle to justify their worth as being based on hard work. I have also worked with people who used their earnings and the respectability of their profession to justify their worth as being based on hard work. Does one hold more weight than the other? If I'm somewhere in the middle, does that mean I don't work hard? If I get through things relatively unscathed, does that mean I worked hard towards a reasonably successful outcome, or that I failed to put in effort? My looming midlife crisis is depending on this sense of hard work and worthiness of dignity and respect, and I am lost in determining exactly what hard work is.

There's a saying that I've found to be pretty true and just as aggravating: 'The reward for hard work is more hard work.' On one hand, it's in the same philosophical vein as 'You can't cheat an honest man' and on the other, the journey is its own reward. 

 

And if you're REALLY lucky, you might have people exploit your hard work through no merit of their own, but they leave you some financial crumbs or maybe even something akin to a feast. 

 

Also consider: Van Gogh paintings sell for millions of dollars today. Yet Van Gogh died a pauper, supported by his brother,  by a self-inflicted gunshot wound. He came to art later in his life, but in that brief time, he painted 900 works, but only sold one. He created great value, but never got his reward monetarily. Yet, how many people today look at the products of his mind and hands and feel something of the human condition?

 

Quote

Starry, starry night
Portraits hung in empty halls
Frameless heads on nameless walls
With eyes that watch the world and can't forget
Like the strangers that you've met
The ragged men in the ragged clothes
The silver thorn, a bloody rose
Lie crushed and broken on the virgin snow

Now I think I know
What you tried to say to me
And how you suffered for your sanity
And how you tried to set them free
They would not listen, they're not listening still
Perhaps they never will 

-From Don McLean's "Vincent"  

Probably the best you can hope for is that someone remembers your hard work and what it meant to them that you lived at all to _do_ the work. Because as you lay on your deathbed, you'll probably never regret not spending more time at the office. 

[Snao Cone]

1 hour ago, Skycaptain said:

Hard work is something where you're exerting yourself, whether it involves muscles, brains, going outside your comfort zone. Outcome is irrelevant, it's putting the effort in 

Should hard work with a poor or negligible outcome be just as positively recognized as hard work with a favourable outcome? Is choosing to put in hard work instead of easier work with an equal or better outcome a morally superior choice?

[Skycaptain]

Yes. Someone is trying their best, that's good enough 

 

My morals have had an unfortunate encounter with a gallon of Kronenbourg, so I'll leave that part until the morning 😋😋

[Anthracite_Impreza]

I consider anyone simply able to get out of bed in the morning to be working hard; I can't even manage that half the time.

[Snao Cone]

1 hour ago, Skycaptain said:

Yes. Someone is trying their best, that's good enough 

Is there moral superiority to choosing to do something that is more difficult for you, even if it means you don't do it as well as others? What if you could be applying yourself to something that comes more naturally to you?

[daveb]

46 minutes ago, Snao Cone said:

Is there moral superiority to choosing to do something that is more difficult for you, even if it means you don't do it as well as others?

The simple answer in my opinion is no. The amount of effort is immaterial when it comes to morality (again, stating my personal opinion on it). 

 

47 minutes ago, Snao Cone said:

What if you could be applying yourself to something that comes more naturally to you?

That can be great, too.

 

What matters, in my opinion, is what the work/effort produces. If someone can find something they do well and enjoy and which comes pretty easily to them and produces things of value (whether it's tangible products, art (tangible or not), ideas, actions that help others, etc.) I would say that is just as valuable and "moral" as someone else producing the same things, but expending great effort to do it.

 

But I don't buy the "work ethic" idea that somehow hard work in and of itself is virtuous.

[uhtred]

Maybe the real question is "what type of work should one engage in", rather than "what is hard work". 

 

I would argue that one should balance doing things that you are good at, that benefit the world, that you enjoy and that you are paid for.  Exactly how you balance those factors depends on the person. 

[Epitaph]

Way to ask some interesting questions Cone. Think I've got an answer for them.

 

We can all agree that in life, there's a certain degree of what we can consider being hard and easy. For the average human being, lifting a cup is easy. But let's say you're the person with a shattered arm trying to lift the cup. The task becomes difficult. This introduces a key factor into what we consider difficult. Circumstance. Everybody's circumstances are different, therefore, what they find difficult will all vary.

 

What I think defines hard work, and will always define it, is the core to what hard work is. Hard work is overcoming barriers, be they physical or mental. And that's all there is to it. The greater the difficulty experienced to get over the barrier, the harder the work is. The actual specifics of the barrier don't matter. Just that it exists as a barrier, and it gives you difficulty to face up to it.

[Guest]

I think that hard work definitely plays heavily in the effort.

 

I think consistent hard work, is where I would determine an individual in being hard working as an actual means of labeling them as such. 

 

I don't think emotional labor is necessarily hard work, however. 

 

I have worked with people who would get overwhelmed having to deal with two customers and would be so stressed they would red line, and forget how to do a basic task. Or struggle with the most simplest of tasks due to lacking common sense or basic intelligence (yet be perfectly functional adults).

 

Are they working any harder? No. Their anxiety to me, is making their job way harder than it is. 

 

At the end of the day, they will have accomplished nothing by the end of their day, yet be far more taxed than me emotionally, having put through 20 times more work through. Essentially forcing others to pick up their slack due to their basic incompetence.

 

I also don't agree trying one's best is hard work. 

 

If you're truly incompetent at something, your effort will be irrelevant since you are doing the job poorly. 

 

If someone used sandpaper to buff out your car because they are idiots, doesn't matter that they worked up a sweat. It will create 5 times more work to fix. Something they clearly can't do right in the first place. You're going to trust them to fix it?

 

I also feel the output plays a huge role, as a result. 

 

I have done desk jobs, technician jobs, managerial etc. 

 

I often saw that those at the bottom, complained about working the hardest due to the physical toll their job took. 

 

Those at the top, saw the amount of impact their work had on the actual business (even though the impact your growing a business is irrelevant if your laborers aren't putting quality work through). Something that often wasn't seen by others because their job isn't blatant (or appreciated).

 

For me, numbers don't lie when it comes down to determining actual effort (but this is also misleading, as per George Carlin due to:"most work just hard enough not to get fired, and get paid just enough not to quit".)

[SithLord]

I think hard work is hard to qualify. Obviously I can spend 5 hours staring at a blank Word document and it wouldn't be classified as "hard work", but if I've spent 5 hours writing an essay, that can be called "hard work", especially if it required citations, graphs, literary devices, etc. Time is certainly a factor, but only if effort is put in during the length of that time. Moving a 100lb weight across the room would likely take me hours and problem solving, but for others would take a few minutes and be a simple matter of picking it up and moving it there. The former is hard work, the latter I wouldn't qualify because of the ease in which the individual was able to perform the task. 

 

If I spent all day at a computer programing a game, going through bugs and gliches and fixes and everything that's going wrong, that would be considered hard work to me. If someone spends 10 hours at a construction site laying down flooring and whatever else goes into building a house, that would be considered hard work as well. Being the sole support for a disabled person while supporting you both can be emotionally draining and I would also classify as hard work. So I think effort is really the main thing that makes something "hard work."

 

I never learned how to study. I didn't find high school the easiest, but I still got low As regularly without having to fight too hard (except in one class that made me cry because it wasn't designed to be taught that way). Compare this to my friends who worked their butts off for Bs. I didn't work as hard as they did even though my results were better. 

[Gatto]