Guest Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 I'm not going to type this with any coherency or sciencey mumbo jumbo because I currently do not have the braincells to do so. When I try to explain being trans, I explain in the terms of being a disorder in the brain and a neurological anomaly. I explain it in scientific terms to try and get people to understand their not just feelings/ a delusion. It's not just something you decide and it sure to hell is not rational. Then cis people still d on 't fucking gET IT. Anyways, not the topic. Rather people seem to be freaked out by the idea of gender dysphoria being medicalized as if that is necessarily a bad thing. Seriously, for binary trans people you are taking/injecting hormones and doing surgeries that have irreversible effects. Why the hell would that not be medicalized?? ljL:AJSLDJADL:FJAD:LFJDLKFJFJSDFK Of course there's gatekeeping n shit, detransitioners who have transitioned for multiple reasons other than the fact they have gender dysphoria exist. Is there too much gatekeeping and are waiting lists hell??! YES!! IT"S AllL a MEss And thIS Is jUST AN ANGrY RANT. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 might revise this later Link to post Share on other sites
PoeciMeta Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Not an answer, just a parallel (along with its own question) but there's a similar thing with autism. Like medical condition=bad, but there are still some who need medical stuff. And most of what we are, us humans, is 'medical' to some extent, but oh well. Link to post Share on other sites
Janus the Fox Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 There's a growing number hat think it's all a big fetish, it's chosen made on a decision to transition chasing the arousal of becoming female or the arousal of wearing the clothes. There's a Autogynephilia and Blanchard's Autogynephilia Transsexualism Typology Philosophy rabbit hole I've discovered and that's rather a stark contrast to a person without sexuality and libido. The opposite sex the same way, reading it it's true for some, unfortunate to later discover the same drive to transition is gone as the fetish fades, re-medicalising it as a mental sickness or a criminological motive. Tell those that believe this and you'll be bombarded with the idea that you're most likely fetishising it but some are against the de-medicalising of Transsexuality. Research at anybody's own risk. I've been personally following the rabbit hole via a Reddit community r/itsafetish, join at own risk Through my own gender discovery starting back around puberty and thus came to the forefront once the weight was lost and depression/anxiety effectively treated. After several years in psychotherapy came with the eventual Gender Dysphoric Disorder diagnosis. I made sure if it isn't caused by anything else, including autism, medical issues, cancer, a residual delusion of grandeur from a previous manic episode, sexual motivations, fetishes... props to the psych that went through everything. Here, the diagnosis seems to be only valid for 5 years and waiting lists are longer than 5 years, new patients perhaps skip the GIC stage until surgery stage if already under a psych. But for what I've read, it isn't like that for most, many somehow don't go through that process at all and skip right to HRT without any formal psychoanalysis, again, research at own risk. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 YES, i very much thought of that parallel. Link to post Share on other sites
thyristor Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 2 hours ago, KrysLost said: might revise this later 💚 You know, Krys, I don't care if you're in for nudges or warnings sometimes, I like seeing you around, you're a fresh breeze. (that's not to say that you aren't angry for good reasons, and I know there might be other people out there who get offended a bit easier than me, but just wanted to let you know how little me feels) Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 hour ago, elisabeth_II said: 💚 You know, Krys, I don't care if you're in for nudges or warnings sometimes, I like seeing you around, you're a fresh breeze. (that's not to say that you aren't angry for good reasons, and I know there might be other people out there who get offended a bit easier than me, but just wanted to let you know how little me feels) Thank you so much. I very much like challenging the shit that's on AVEN and LGBT alphabet soup. There are easily offended snowflakes anywhere and everywhere, let's be honest. I tend to speak to people in a blunt way and thankfully not as rudely anymore. So it's just kinda nice to hear someone appreciates it. Thanks. PM me if you ever want to and we can talk. Link to post Share on other sites
thyristor Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 A little off topic: Spoiler 19 minutes ago, KrysLost said: LGBT alphabet soup. There are easily offended snowflakes I like cherishing the beauty of those as well. I've come to the conclusion that I often like anything that plays its part, regardless what the part is. Just my way of looking at the world. Your part seems to be throwing a bomb of naked honest energy into a thread, not long lasting, but sort of wakes me up. Thx, I might PM you some day when need more of it! But I hope for the snowflakes that you go easy on them Link to post Share on other sites
Just Somebody Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Identifying with a transgender sociocultural historical label/group (or simply gender identity) is not a medical problem, the TRUE medical problem is when someone suffers from gender dysphoria (what we can call "gender pain"), being that social or biological gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria is something that is NOT ONLY present in many Transgender persons (remember that SOME Transgender persons DOESN'T suffer from it) but can be found in ALL social categories or groups of people under the gender non-conforming (GNC) community/umbrella. Transgender people are gender non-conforming, and NOT ALL gender non-conforming people suffer from gender dysphoria, but of those gender non-conforming people that DO suffer from it NOT ALL of them identify as transgender (some are cisgender). And even the current medical establishment and international medical health guidelines recognize what I just wrote. "Harry Benjamin Syndrome days" are gone for good. Side note: saying that ALL Transgender people suffer from gender dysphoria is also wrong because while we can identify as Transgender til the end of our lives, some of us lucky enough can get rid of gender dysphoria and they don't stop being Transgender (become cisgender) because of it... so you can't define being Transgender (and by that I mean both the sociocultural historical word/label and also category/group of people) as basically "having gender dysphoria" (or in other words, "suffering from a specific medical condition"). Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Just Somebody said: Identifying with a transgender sociocultural historical label/group (or simply gender identity) is not a medical problem, the TRUE medical problem is when someone suffers from gender dysphoria (what we can call "gender pain"), being that social or biological gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria is something that is NOT ONLY present in many Transgender persons (remember that SOME Transgender persons DOESN'T suffer from it) but can be found in ALL social categories or groups of people under the gender non-conforming (GNC) community/umbrella. Transgender people are gender non-conforming, and NOT ALL gender non-conforming people suffer from gender dysphoria, but of those gender non-conforming people that DO suffer from it NOT ALL of them identify as transgender (some are cisgender). And even the current medical establishment and international medical health guidelines recognize what I just wrote. "Harry Benjamin Syndrome days" are gone for good. Side note: saying that ALL Transgender people suffer from gender dysphoria is also wrong because while we can identify as Transgender til the end of our lives, some of us lucky enough can get rid of gender dysphoria and they don't stop being Transgender (become cisgender) because of it... so you can't define being Transgender (and by that I mean both the sociocultural historical word/label and also category/group of people) as basically "having gender dysphoria" (or in other words, "suffering from a specific medical condition"). Honestly, I really can only speak from a binary point of view and I have never seen nor met any binary trans person without dysphoria. Maybe transitioning got rid of it for them but they had it at some point. Also should have put the title as medicalizing gender dysphoria blah blah blah Link to post Share on other sites
anisotrophic Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 I don't feel a need to justify myself to cis people that express disbelief. I don't consider myself to have a medical "problem", I just want to be me. I think HRT helped a lot with that because it's like "whatever, try calling me a woman with a straight face in a couple years, you'll look like the weirdo". Sorry you're not there yet @KrysLost. It was easy for me because I'm 40 so it's like... I'm a grown-ass adult, I do what I want. It must be really frustrating to have to wait. 2 minutes ago, KrysLost said: never seen nor met any binary trans person without dysphoria Maybe some truth to that... I think the lack of dysphoria is why I identify as NB. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, anisotrophic said: Sorry you're not there yet @KrysLost. It was easy for me because I'm 40 so it's like... I'm a grown-ass adult, I do what I want. It must be really frustrating to have to wait I'm just a 19 year old brat who still sleep with like 7 blankets. I still haven't grown out of my "I want you to understand" phase. Some people just can't I guess. Link to post Share on other sites
anisotrophic Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Just now, KrysLost said: I'm just a 19 year old brat who still sleep with like 7 blankets. I still haven't grown out of my "I want you to understand" phase. Some people just can't I guess. I was suicidal at 19, it wasn't great! (Soooo much useless therapy.) Now I'm just an old fart saying "chill". 😂 You're doing good I think. I spent a lot of years being unhappy, I think you're finding it faster than I did. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, anisotrophic said: I was suicidal at 19, it wasn't great! (Soooo much useless therapy.) Now I'm just an old fart saying "chill". 😂 You're doing good I think. I spent a lot of years being unhappy, I think you're finding it faster than I did. I could ramble on about all my mental health issues and the suicidal idealization but I'm just gonna shut my mouth on this one. Link to post Share on other sites
anisotrophic Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 @KrysLost there's a strange pride to take in resisting it, I found! People act sorry for me and I'm like, no, I'm *proud* I endured. Link to post Share on other sites
Just Somebody Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 55 minutes ago, KrysLost said: Honestly, I really can only speak from a binary point of view and I have never seen nor met any binary trans person without dysphoria. Maybe transitioning got rid of it for them but they had it at some point. Also should have put the title as medicalizing gender dysphoria blah blah blah Okay... so what's the deal with gender dysphoria? Link to post Share on other sites
letusdeleteouraccounts Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 9 hours ago, Just Somebody said: Transgender people are gender non-conforming, and NOT ALL gender non-conforming people suffer from gender dysphoria, but of those gender non-conforming people that DO suffer from it NOT ALL of them identify as transgender (some are cisgender). I was reading through and I felt the need to point this out. Transgender is NOT gender non-conforming. Gender non-conforming refers to a person who has freed them self from caring about any and all social expectations related to their gender [identity]. Trans people can be gender non-conforming but it’s like, why would you want to when you have dysphoria? Most gender non-conforming people, number wise and percentage wise, are going to be cis because of that Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 6 hours ago, Just Somebody said: Okay... so what's the deal with gender dysphoria? Hell if ik, all of this was an angry rant. Not some starter for a discussion. Link to post Share on other sites
PoeciMeta Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Thinking of it, both being trans and being dysphoric are medicalised, be it only because they are often conflated, and both must have some underlying psychological and biochemical causes. 2 hours ago, Star Lion said: I was reading through and I felt the need to point this out. Transgender is NOT gender non-conforming. Gender non-conforming refers to a person who has freed them self from caring about any and all social expectations related to their gender [identity]. Trans people can be gender non-conforming but it’s like, why would you want to when you have dysphoria? Most gender non-conforming people, number wise and percentage wise, are going to be cis because of that Yeah, trans would rather be under ''AGAB-nonconforming'', which would be the same as gender nonconforming for cis people I agree with you, trans doesn't imply gnc. For starters, I'm certainly trans and don't have a gender to conform to, so cool for me I guess, but non-binary genders don't have gender norms associated to them! Link to post Share on other sites
letusdeleteouraccounts Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, PoeciMeta said: non-binary genders don't have gender norms associated to them! I mean, if you’re non-binary then people would likely expect you to dress in an androgynous fashion and parcipate in an equal mix of activities considered masculine and feminine. If you don’t live your life trying to take on this adrogynistic lifestyle then I’d say that you’re gender non-conforming Link to post Share on other sites
PoeciMeta Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Star Lion said: I mean, if you’re non-binary then people would likely expect you to dress in an androgynous fashion and parcipate in an equal mix of activities considered masculine and feminine. If you don’t live your life trying to take on this adrogynistic lifestyle then I’d say that you’re gender non-conforming Haha, I just do whatever I like so ¯\ _(ツ)_/¯ Link to post Share on other sites
Just Somebody Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 7 hours ago, Star Lion said: I was reading through and I felt the need to point this out. Transgender is NOT gender non-conforming. Gender non-conforming refers to a person who has freed them self from caring about any and all social expectations related to their gender [identity]. Trans people can be gender non-conforming but it’s like, why would you want to when you have dysphoria? Most gender non-conforming people, number wise and percentage wise, are going to be cis because of that Yeah... being a man with a vulva or a girl with a penis is totally not gender non-conforming, yeah sure.... Link to post Share on other sites
thyristor Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 6 hours ago, KrysLost said: Hell if ik, all of this was an angry rant. Not some starter for a discussion. Oh, good that you clarified that, I was going to ask you what the thread actually is about. I percieved it like this: you are transgender with gender dysphoria and want to transition, but it's not recognized as a medical issue, so you have to join long waiting lists. Somehting like that. But if I was wrong, nevermind, cos you just needed to rant away anyway You have my thoughts. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Just now, elisabeth_II said: Oh, good that you clarified that, I was going to ask you what the thread actually is about. I percieved it like this: you are transgender with gender dysphoria and want to transition, but it's not recognized as a medical issue, so you have to join long waiting lists. Somehting like that. But if I was wrong, nevermind, cos you just needed to rant away anyway You have my thoughts. Oof i d k Link to post Share on other sites
PoeciMeta Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 25 minutes ago, Just Somebody said: Yeah... being a man with a vulva or a girl with a penis is totally not gender non-conforming, yeah sure.... It's not their intention to have said parts, though? While being a tomboy is something any girl is free to do... gender non-conforming girls are not the biologically male ones, they're the tomboys, of any agab. Link to post Share on other sites
letusdeleteouraccounts Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 24 minutes ago, Just Somebody said: Yeah... being a man with a vulva or a girl with a penis is totally not gender non-conforming, yeah sure.... Gender non-confirming is about choices and trans people didn’t choose to have the genitals they were born with. It would be different if, say, a cis woman decided to get a phalloplasty Link to post Share on other sites
Just Somebody Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Just now, Star Lion said: Gender non-confirming is about choices and trans people didn’t choose to have the genitals they were born with. It would be different if, say, a cis woman decided to get a phalloplasty You don't choose to identify as Transgender, but you can choose to live expressing your authentic self or stay in the "gender conforming" closet forever, just like other gender non-conforming people. Link to post Share on other sites
Just Somebody Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Just now, PoeciMeta said: It's not their intention to have said parts, though? While being a tomboy is something any girl is free to do... gender non-conforming girls are not the biologically male ones, they're the tomboys, of any agab. Tomboys never choose to like socioculturally and historically considered masculine behaviors, you don't choose whether or not to enjoy pie, you just do like it, for example. And being a tomboy is not something a girl is free to do, at least not everywhere in the world, and in such places they're just treated if not considered the same as us, Transgender people. AFABs with socioculturally and historically considered "unfeminine", whether cisgender or transgender share the same history of social suffering, they share so much that you can look at AFAB people of the past and not know what the hell they were... masculine cisgender girls, masculine transgender men, masculine non-binary transgender, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
PoeciMeta Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, Just Somebody said: You don't choose to identify as Transgender, but you can choose to live expressing your authentic self or stay in the "gender conforming" closet forever, just like other gender non-conforming people. 8 minutes ago, Just Somebody said: Tomboys never choose to like socioculturally and historically considered masculine behaviors, you don't choose whether or not to enjoy pie, you just do like it, for example. And being a tomboy is not something a girl is free to do, at least not everywhere in the world, and in such places they're just treated if not considered the same as us, Transgender people. AFABs with socioculturally and historically considered "unfeminine", whether cisgender or transgender share the same history of social suffering, they share so much that you can look at AFAB people of the past and not know what the hell they were... masculine cisgender girls, masculine transgender men, masculine non-binary transgender, etc. So you think having a body of the other binary AGAB is not conforming to one's gender? AFAB trans people may not conform to feminity, but there's gender in 'gender non-conforming'. As in, not conforming to the norms attached to your gender. And by definition, their gender is not female. Link to post Share on other sites
thyristor Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 7 hours ago, KrysLost said: Not some starter for a discussion. Well, it certainly seems like you DID start a discussion though Okay, I have no insights on any of this, I'm out of here, enough learnt for today. Link to post Share on other sites
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