New Here S married to A

[tampa_tim69]

I was happy to find this site and realize how many struggle with this difficulty. I have been married over 6 years. I was raised a nudist and my parents were swingers. A HUGE portion of my entire personality and identity is inexorably linked to my sexuality, not defined by it, but immeshed.

My wife and I have had any form of sexual relations fewer than 30 times in these 6 plus years, not even on our wedding night.

We struggled with many of the things already sited here. I finally got tired of hearing the same response every time I tried to talk to her about it...

"I Don't Know"

That answer was given for all the Why's, How's, When's, Who's, everything.

I decided I NEEDED TO DECIDE. I was either going to stick around and be as fair as I could, not asking too much from her, but not getting stomped on and neglected either, or I was going to leave.

I stayed.

Now six years in, she has taught me to see EVERYTHING differently. If I have to put the toilet seat down for her, she has to put it up for me. Obviously this would lead to poor and inconsistent results, so I pick the damn seat up to pee and she puts the damn seat down to pee.

not equal, but equivalent, self responsible, egalitarian.

In short, without the "manipulation capital" of sex in our relationship, we have forced each other to be responsible for our own crap. This includes everything from literal crap (toilet seats...hehehe) to emotional, to nutritional...etc.

In a sexual-two-way-street relationship, (the part I think Asexuals really need to learn about), the sexual "sacrifices" are a nice thing to do for a change from baseline (i.e. oral sex when one doesn't like doing it). In my marriage now it might be just as appreciated when I make dinner for her, or she for me, as otherwise its our own problem. Its like living alone, and without sex, but constantly dating forever.

In this, and it really does work well for us, we are able to stay "locked" at courtship forever. We are living independantly in the same home, but every little gesture or foray into the other's daily routine, from me initiating cuddling with her to me finding the toilet seat up, everything is appreciated, meaningful, and never taken for granted.

The most important lesson I could share with asexual folks about the sexual perspective is an insight into sexuality my asexual wife has given me, that SEX MAKES YOU OWE SOMEONE.

When sex is taken for granted by one spouse, for example:

being married means you must have sex,

then the other spouse is usually taking a ton of non-sexual things for granted, and expecting those things, like dinner cooked, take out the trash, listen to me talk about my feelings or my family or play this game with me.

Things that might be equally painful for the sexual person to do while desiring you may be demanded by the asexual, just as sex is demanded of them by the sexual.

Finally, the point I have tried to approach is that we are all human, and sex is only ONE of THOUSANDS of forms of "relationship capital" to be traded for "goods and services" as it were.

As we are all human, sexual or not, we all try to get what we want, usually by giving the person we love what WE WANT rather than what THEY want, hoping the exact gesture will be returned. If we as couples aren't playing this game in bed with sex, then we are playing it with money, quality time, household chores, listening/sharing, caring for the children, you name it.

Its human nature to play these games, and as hard as we may try not to play, we must first be AWARE of what we are doing before we can change it.

[the_dancing_spangle]

TIM!

This was an excellent, excellent post. I'm currently mulling over these kinds of things ---- if sexual/asexual relationships are worth it, if they can work in a way that is meaningful for both without one party feeling cheated due to percieved differences in the emotional needs. Knowing that there are other ways to "play it out" certainly informs the debate.

Welcome!

[tampa_tim69]

I ABSOLUTELY believe it can work!

In fact, I believe it can lead to WAY healthier relationships that can stand for the long haul. I can't imagine my life without my wife now, and spent a good 2 to 3 years struggling daily over staying or leaving before I let go of my old views, and started trying to build new ones WITH her!

One item of debate we still face, as no relationship ever has EVERYTHING worked out, is definately jealous. I masturbate maybe twice a week. This is sometimes hard for my wife because although she doesn't desire it from or with me, she feels that I have a connection with other things that she doesn't get to have, or share.

I say "things" because its stories and concepts that are usually the focus of my...cough...attention, not certain people. Just as I have my daily struggle not to stray from my marriage and cheat on her, she has this to contend with. Its MY problem having to adhere to my original vows in the marriage, and its HER problem to deal with the fact that, as she will not be like me (sexually active desire), I will not be like her (asexual).

The key for us right now, as it continues to be a struggle, is to first know who owns which part, THEN to help each other with these parts out of kindness and love, not obligation and expectation.

MOST IMPORTANT PART OF MY WORDY POST:

Sometimes a problem doesn't need to be SOLVED, it only needs to be owned by the responsible party and then SHARED!!!!!!!

This last sentence is the foundation of our entire marriage.

P.S. if any of you are wondering, I have not strayed, and have had ample opportunities. I do not stay faithful out of obligations or vows either, I do it because the alternative of hurting my wife so badly is unthinkable to me.

I am so glad I found all of you, what a great site and support system!!!!

[the_dancing_spangle]

Wow, such great insight. I can't believe this. You just brought up issues I found myself bothered by in speculation a few hours ago (which would be from the asexual point of view), If you would, please read this thread,

http://www.asexuality.org/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=19316 I'd appreciate any input you could grant to the discussion there. it is SO amazing how synchonocity works. :shock:

[Livet]

I suppose it greatly depends on the relationship and the individual. It's difficult for me to comprimise on something so personal but I'm on the other side. I understand the nessessity of comprimise and the truth of what can only be fair. Flipping the roles around I admire you for sticking in there and keeping up your end I'm not sure I'd have the willpower to jump the obsticals nessisary to do half so well.

Tampa Tim I salute you!

[Kallan]

Most of my romantic relationships (I've never had an un-mixed relationship) exist in this kind of ownership of relational capital. Most of my relationships period, romantic or otherwise work this way.

I make sure I always have control of the sexual capital, and I use it when I feel comfortable.

The most intimate relationships I have are a bit different, but I don't think I could describe it.

[Elizabeth I]

What a brilliant, insightful post, Tim.

Those are principles that apply to every "dot on the triangle"

Thanks for writing it all down!

Lizzie

[Chiaroscuro]

Hi Tim,

An excellent, hopeful thread. I am perhaps approaching the solution you've described in your post. My wife and I have been w/o sex for five years now, and it's been very rocky going, though the rocks are getting a bit smaller at this point.

The thing that I find hard to contend with, and which your solution doesn't address, is that I will go to my grave, from this point forward, a celibate man. Cutting myself off from such a fundamental human experience is something that I grieve over. It's like the phenomenon that amputees have of a "ghost limb"... they feel like their missing arm is still there, even though it's gone. That's how it feels to me. I'll wake up by myself, in my bed in the livingroom, and it will dawn on me where I am, and who's not there with me. It's like the whole room darkens suddenly. My outlook on the day is shot. I will pull myself together and go on with my life, but that grief is there. It never seems to go away.

So, while your post makes me vaguely hopeful, and I'm all about making the best out of what cards you're dealt, it's not the life-path I would have chosen if I had it to do over again.

-Chiaroscuro

[starcat]

.....

[loverofasexual]

Tim,

It is a blessing to have read this at this time in my life. I am a sexual person and my partner is asexual. I didn't know this at first but I love him so much that I won't leave him. He loves me too and wishes he could express it in a sexual way, but he just can't. I know he feels like he's letting me down and I do feel very let down at times. It was hard to come to terms with being gay and here I am at 26 years old, gay and still not able to have sex. It made me wonder how I wound up in this situation. I, like you, thought about leaving and finding someone who I could have a complete relationship with but we have some many other wonderful things in our relationship that I didn't want to lose. I coudn't imagine being without him and he always makes me feel loved and wanted and needed in other ways that are not sexual. You helped me in finding my answers within myself and I thank you for that. I have also thought about cheating on my partner. Believe me, when you live in Los Angeles and you're gay, young and attractive you have guys throwing themselves at you. But I don't want to make love to a stranger so I masturbate almost every day to fulfill my needs and I don't lie about it to my partner. He knows it's what I need to do and it's okay with him. You're an awesome man.

[wtf]

Im sexual male married to an asexual female. Been married for 7 years too. Its good to see Im not alone! Celebacy is difficult but I think giving up sex to be with my wife is really an act of love and she is worth it.

[Chiaroscuro]

I wish I could do what you're doing, wtf. But to me, its like saying "cutting off an arm to be with my wife is an act of love." Maybe so, but every time I pick up the axe, and prepare to cut the arm off, I hesitate...

-Chiaroscuro