flacomedicen Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Hello. I've seen there are different poins of view about reasons to masturbate or have sex according to sexual and asexual people. I would like to know if one could be asexual if asking for sex to a very close friend* looking for stress relief instead of masturbate. I mean do that three times at month or less. Taking on account that we would look for both pleasure and I'm not having sexual attraction and/or sexual reification. * I would say a person with whom I have an intimate relationship but we're not couple neither partners. I meant an ethical non-monogamy relationship. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Husky Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) There are different types of ace people, some like sex, some are okay with it and some are repulsed and all of them can call themselves asexual. So if you want to you can still call yourself asexual even if you want to have sex Edited January 13, 2020 by Black Husky Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 It just depends on the reason to try it. Most ace people are not gonna go for the partnered sex option. I wouldn't be surprised if someone who was ace had sex just for the afterglow and the cuddling that comes afterwards. The flood of endorphins does make it even more comfy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Husky Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, CBC said: If you like to have sex with other people and repeatedly choose that option (for any reason; doesn't matter if you're in romantic love or not, doesn't matter if you find them sexy/hot/beautiful or not), that's not really in line with my understanding of asexuality. Asexuality is primarily about not desiring partnered sex. Isn't one way of asexuality described by not feeling sexual attraction? Flacomedicen said that they want to have sex with their friend to relief stress, but they still don't feel any sexual attraction. So from my point of view I'd say that they could call themself ace if they wanted to. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grimalkin Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 I think I'm leaning towards @CBC's thoughts here. This kinda just sounds like a typical friends-with-benefits situation, and at least for me personally I could never do that. Sex with another person borders on an active turn off. Even if I'm aroused beforehand, sex definitely doesn't add fuel to the fire and in fact is kind of like putting wet newspaper on the fire. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Husky Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 For me the question would be if he expierences sexual attraction. If he does than I'd say no, if doesn't then I'd say probably yes. You can still enjoy sex even if you don't experience sexual attraction and if he likes it then I don't see a reason why he shouldn't do it. I think a lot of asexual people just don't get exicted when thinking about sex. On the other hand some masturbate or have sex to relief stress so I don't see a problem with being asexual and still enjoying sex, even though I think it's not that likely to happen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Husky Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 @Grimalkin I couldn't do that either. I just think that being asexual could also be defined by not experiencing sexual attraction, but still liking the act. Also in this situation flacomedicen thinks about asking a reallyclose friend of them and if their not sex repulsed and it helps them relief stress, then there's no reason to me why they shouldn't call themself ace. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Quote Flacomedicen said that they want to have sex with their friend to relief stress, but they still don't feel any sexual attraction. What does being sexually attracted to someone even mean if it doesn't mean desiring sex with them? Clearly something is drawing you to them in that way; that's literally what attraction means. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rosendust Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 47 minutes ago, CBC said: Ok so, let's take a stereotypical really horny college kid. Will bang almost anything that moves. Isn't in love, doesn't care if the person is super hot. But he's obsessed with getting laid. He'd have sex several times a day if he could. Is he asexual? (Also I don't want to get dragged into yet another definition debate, so I'm not gonna argue this endlessly.) I totally agree with your thoughts, especially being around college guys. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrea KF Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Black Husky said: Isn't one way of asexuality described by not feeling sexual attraction? Flacomedicen said that they want to have sex with their friend to relief stress, but they still don't feel any sexual attraction. So from my point of view I'd say that they could call themself ace if they wanted to. They can call themselves aromantic rather than asexual, imho. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Memento1 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 For me the base question is why are you worried about whether or not you would still be considered asexual? Would you not feel valid? If someone said "no, that would disqualify you from being asexual," would you change your mind about doing it? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
everywhere and nowhere Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 2 hours ago, flacomedicen said: Taking on account that we would look for both pleasure and I'm not having sexual attraction and/or sexual reification. Even if I disagree with the most common definiton of sexual attraction (because I consider sexual attraction without sexual desire possible), even if I believe that desire is a much better marker of asexuality than attraction - surely people who formulated the official definition didn't have "come up with the weirdest reasons for having sex" as their goal. Inner feelings matter. A lot. But labels are necessarily simplifications, this is exactly what they are about: to allow an approximation of who you are by means of some psychosocial terms instead of teling your whole life story. The latter is needed too, but it's a matter best left to literature, not labelling. Labels have to be simple, glossary-like. So the label "asexual" wasn't intended to say "Asexuals are people who have sex for stress relief or because they are too lazy to pleasure themselves, in contrast to allosexuals, who generally have sex because of sexual attraction". No, what the label intends to communicate, is rather: "asexuals are people who prefer not to have sex". 2 hours ago, flacomedicen said: I've seen there are different poins of view about reasons to masturbate or have sex according to sexual and asexual people. Do you want other's views or are you just saying it as an introduction? I, personally, would always choose autoeroticism because for me it's acceptable and sex is terrifying. Partnered sex includes things I cannot accept as possibly happening to me, things I cannot desire and cannot allow to happen to me. Do I feel this way because I'm asexual? No, not really - I would rather say that, first of all, I would always decide against partnered sex because I'm sex-averse. Others may feel otherwise. Some asexuals are sex-indifferent and could possibly have sex in some situations. However, consider one thing: the asexual labels helps us communicate. I personally believe that all reasons for not having sex should be considered valid because it's better to err on the side of caution instead of accidentally pressuring someone into unwanted sex (by not respecting their motivation). But still, the fact is that sex aversion, nudity aversion, chronic illness are not reasons likely to be accepted - no, the more nasty will mock me and the more "compassionate" will insist on telling me that I'm a victim and should "learn to love my body" instead of depriving myself (of something I don't even need). The "effectively asexual" label at least gives me a chance to escape this kind of invalidation. If asexuals are perceived as people who have sex for some untypical reasons - where do sex-averse asexuals go? How are we going to communicate that our choice is always "no sex"? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
flacomedicen Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 Thanks for all your answers. I'm glad for reading all of you Respect what @Memento1 said I think its important to listen people, specially within the asexual community in order to bring light to ones sexuality and identity and for share knowledge and sources to another people too. Myself identify as asexual, not a long ago but I always felt very different from the most in sexual terms, I lived my sexuality in a very forced way, indeed. Maybe because my context (an hypersexualized city and country, not my family). But with patiente I'm founding a narrow number of ways to feel it pleasant (in that narrow ways it's more pleasant than masturbation), then I don't think it makes me less asexual because I still doesn't feel desire/imagine to have sex with people. It's like I do drugs sometimes and it doesn't make me a drugaddict. Respect what @CBC said I get that idea of "college guy", he/she/they wouldn't be asexual for me, not because he doesn't feel love but for their eager to have sex, for dedicate so much time on it. Additionally I would say that's not my case. Even when I didn't considered myself as asexual, I didn't look for casual sex or partnered sex, but I accepted to do it because they like it and I was looking for another things like share intimacy. Now I look for intimacy making friends, instead of couples or partners or "friends-with-benefits". PD: I tried to not be TMI haha sorry if I did. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
flacomedicen Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 Oh I missed to answer to @Nowhere Girl, sorry. 37 minutes ago, Nowhere Girl said: If asexuals are perceived as people who have sex for some untypical reasons - where do sex-averse asexuals go? How are we going to communicate that our choice is always "no sex"? That idea always catch me. I would like to use a label that wouldn't be uncomfortable for you and me. I feel very nice using asexual ("asexual" in spanish) but I think graysexual ("gris-sexual" in spanish) would be a nice label too. It makes me feel doubful that "gris-sexual" sounds a bit more abstract than "asexual" on my language/country, but maybe call me asexual would be uncomfortable to sex-averse people and I think its valid. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Iam9man Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 2 hours ago, flacomedicen said: I would like to know if one could be asexual if asking for sex to a very close friend* looking for stress relief instead of masturbate. Yes, absolutely. Asexuals can have sex for all sorts of reasons. I have personally had sex for this reason and I identify as asexual. 2 hours ago, flacomedicen said: I mean do that three times at month This would be very untypical for asexuals, but only you can determine if you are asexual. As far as I’m concerned, anyone who meets the attraction definition and/or desire definition, and who honestly and thoughtfully relates to the term and wants to adopt it, can usefully and accurately refer to themselves as asexual. Past, present or future behaviour have no bearing on this. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Iam9man Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, flacomedicen said: Oh I missed to answer to @Nowhere Girl, sorry. That idea always catch me. I would like to use a label that wouldn't be uncomfortable for you and me. I feel very nice using asexual ("asexual" in spanish) but I think graysexual ("gris-sexual" in spanish) would be a nice label too. It makes me feel doubful that "gris-sexual" sounds a bit more abstract than "asexual" on my language/country, but maybe call me asexual would be uncomfortable to sex-averse people and I think its valid. I’ve had this conversation several times on AVEN with various people. It’s a shame that we can’t all feel comfortable under the same label if it applies to all of us. Whilst I considered I might be grey I ultimately determined I’m fully asexual, but I add the qualifier “sex-favourable” to be clear I can tolerate (and even enjoy) more than the average asexual. ~98% of asexuals are ultimately accepting when I discuss this politely, whilst some seem to take offence that I use the label. To be clear no one on this thread has and this is not meant as any form of attack or attempt to start and argument. No se come se diría en español. Quizás un “asexual favorable al sexo”? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
flacomedicen Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 18 minutes ago, Iam9man said: I’ve had this conversation several times on AVEN with various people. It’s a shame that we can’t all feel comfortable under the same label if it applies to all of us. Whilst I considered I might be grey I ultimately determined I’m fully asexual, but I add the qualifier “sex-favourable” to be clear I can’t tolerate (and even enjoy) more than the average asexual. ~98% of asexuals are ultimately accepting when I discuss this politely, whilst some seem to take offence that I use the label. To be clear no one on this thread has and this is not meant as any form of attack or attempt to start and argument. No se come se diría en español. Quizás un “asexual favorable al sexo”? Yes, it sounds good. I use to say "Asexual Sexo-favorable" or "Sexo-positivo" too. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BeakLove Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 3 hours ago, flacomedicen said: Hello. I've seen there are different poins of view about reasons to masturbate or have sex according to sexual and asexual people. I would like to know if one could be asexual if asking for sex to a very close friend* looking for stress relief instead of masturbate. I mean do that three times at month or less. Taking on account that we would look for both pleasure and I'm not having sexual attraction and/or sexual reification. * I would say a person with whom I have an intimate relationship but we're not couple neither partners. I meant an ethical non-monogamy relationship. Personally I think it's a very disingenuous use of the word "asexual". I think "sexual attraction" has a very clunky and esoteric definition on this place. Unless you are capable of having sex with literally anyone, then there has to be sufficient attraction to the other person to get the job done. That is sexual attraction whether it's muted, felt ravenously, or motivated by love, or lust, or pragmatism, or whatever. If I have sex with someone who isn't particularly a looker, who isn't my "type", say, I still have enough attraction to this individual to be able to engage. Maybe it's because we're deeply in love, or perhaps we're just friends doing each other a favour for stress relief, as you put it, but either way, I consented to it. I think anyone who broadly has a disinterest in sex and does not seek it out or want to engage in it can reasonably identify as "asexual". But I think once you're having regular sex, particularly for your own enjoyment reasons, it seems really odd to use it to apply to yourself, no? 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 But what other word are people going to use in order to justify their totally-normal sex drives while still pretending like they've got more evolved sensibilities and control over their urges than sexual people?? 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Iam9man Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, BeakLove said: Unless you are capable of having sex with literally anyone, then there has to be sufficient attraction to the other person to get the job done. Aesthetic attraction does wonders here 👍 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BeakLove Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 49 minutes ago, Iam9man said: Aesthetic attraction does wonders here 👍 If you're aesthetically drawn to someone enough to engage in sex then it's sexual attraction I would say. 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
everywhere and nowhere Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, flacomedicen said: Yes, it sounds good. I use to say "Asexual Sexo-favorable" or "Sexo-positivo" too. Rememeber that sex favourability and sex positivity are not the same. "Sex favourability" is a personal attitude: being able to enjoy sex and willing to have sex even if not necessarily actively desiring it. "Sex positivity" is a political stance: believing that sex, generally speaking, does more good than harm in the society. I'm personally sex-averse and I'm not sex-positive even in this clearly defined meaning: I believe that "sex as such" has no value (only a particular sexual encounter of specific people could be judged as "good" or "bad", the abstract notion of sex itself simply doesn't provide information for such a judgement) and, to be honest, I'm rather pessimistic about how much of all the sex people all over the world are having does indeed meet the condition of freely given consent. But I'm still going to argue that the "sex-positive" label should only mean a political stance, simply to keep it free for use by people who are politically sex-positive while not being personally willing to have sex. There are a lot of sex-positive aces and while I believe that there's a fair amount of cultural pressure to "at least" declare oneself sex-positive while being asexual, these people have a right to define their own views and shouldn't have to be afraid that by calling themselves "sex-positive" they would be communicating something they don't want. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Quote If you're aesthetically drawn to someone enough to engage in sex then it's sexual attraction I would say. Yep, this. Although I would add the usual caveats of actually desiring to engage in sex with them rather than just being okay with / indifferent to it, etc. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Pretty sure the sole reason it doesn't get "ditched" is because it's plastered on AVEN's front page 😕 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
banana monkey Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 4 hours ago, Black Husky said: For me the question would be if he expierences sexual attraction. I think a lot of asexual people just don't get exicted when thinking about sex. On the other hand some masturbate or have sex to relief stress so I don't see a problem with being asexual and still enjoying sex, even though I think it's not that likely to happen. Yeah, but what definition of sexual attraction are you using? I'm pretty sure that if we are using aven's defintions sexual attraction is "the desire for partnered sex". Whilst everyone is free to use whatever definitions (and thus it is up to each person) aven's definition states an asexual is a person who doesnt experience sexual attraction or to expand - a person who doesnt experience the desire for partnered sex. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
flacomedicen Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 18 minutes ago, banana monkey said: aven's defintions sexual attraction is "the desire for partnered sex" Is there any difference between picking a choice and fulfil a desire? I think it does. I think a desire is something specific that your body ask for and picking a choice is just choosing one of a sort of options. I think a sex-favourable asexual can choose between listen music, drink a beer, masturbate or have sex with a friend (with whom they have a big intimacy) for release stress. In the end they are not desiring sex, its body (mind?) is not asking for it specifically. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
banana monkey Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 minute ago, flacomedicen said: Is there any difference between picking a choice and fulfil a desire? I get your point and not wanting to take this out of context that would depend on what the definition of the word desire is. There are many threads on this site discussing this, mainly the fact that when you talk about desiring sex you mean something different to want. Desire means to want in a very specific way, im not sure what that generally is though as im not sexual. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Anthracite_Impreza Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Ooh yay, I get to post my (second) favourite gif! 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
everywhere and nowhere Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, banana monkey said: There are many threads on this site discussing this ...and I really support the idea of creating a definition debate subforum. Definition-debate-haters don't have to visit it , I, in turn, enjoy definition debates. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Anthracite_Impreza Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Just now, CBC said: Tbh I was going to post the beating a dead horse one, but I like your corgi better. Corgis are always better. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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