GnomeName Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Heylo friends. I’m GnomeName- long time reader first time poster. It seems to be something of a tradition to enjoy some cake on your first post so I baked some of my own to share haha 🍰 I gotta talk some stuff through with people who get it. My girlfriend and I have been together about 5 years. We’ve talked about marriage, and are waiting for a few life circumstances to sort out (school and family and the like) before I propose and make things official. Now. She is ace. I am not. I’ve known she was ace since before we started dating so I knew, albeit maybe not fully appreciated or understood, what getting into a relationship with an asexual person meant. We started having sex several months into our relationship, and it was a fairly typical schedule for two people in their early 20s. I never felt insecure about her wanting me, or being desireable, or my desire for her being welcomed. Within the last several months there’s started to be some friction though. Her willingness to have sex seems to have dropped off completely with no warning. It’s left me feeling awful. I can’t help, after every rejection, feeling like I’m inherently undesirable, and worse, predatory (hello there damage with being a butch lesbian who came out young in a conservative town) for even asking. If it were up to her, I don’t think we ever would have had sex. Which is fine!!!! but it makes me feel like all the times we’d had sex in the past were ..... r*pe. I don’t know what’s changing but even kisses now make her uncomfortable. Not to mention all the ways I show my desire and love for her, not even asking for sex, just a “hey I think you’re attractive and I’m so grateful you’re mine” make her uncomfortable now. It makes me feel so dirty. That I am my worst fear of someone who’s pushed myself on her. That I .... I don't know. I’m all kinds of messed up about it. Any conversation about our (my) feelings about this leads to her spiraling into self-loathing in a way I’m sure many of us are familiar with. I want to be able to talk and be open (communicating about literally everything else has always been our greatest strength) but it’s so hard when we both go in a direction of “I’m what’s wrong with this relationship and you can never be happy if you’re with me.” This woman is my soulmate. She and I work so well together in every other regard. I can’t lose her over this. I’m not even sure what advice or tips or ideas I’m asking for. I think I just needed to talk to a group of people who understand some of the intricacies. Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Jade Cross Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Whether its aces or allos, we can only offer educated guesses as to why some things happen; as (covenient as it may be otherwise) we cant become the person and say "Hey THIS is whats happening" That being said, its not uncommon for aces to put up with sex in exchange for companionship or a misguided sense of normalcy. Indeed for many of us that seek relationships as aces, the haunting question of "how much sex?" is always present and many have tried to toughen it out only to regret it later on, as they simply cannot stand themselves going through the process, which could be 1 potential explanation for your partners extreme change in attitude, especially since marriage is being placed on the table. That is not to say that ace/allo relationships are not possible but they definately are more uncommon. Link to post Share on other sites
uhtred Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 She is ACE, you are not. Does it *really* make sense to get married? Will you be happy without sex for the rest of your life? Neither of you is at fault here, but its a very fundamental incompatibility. Many of us have discovered this incompatibility later in life, and its extremely difficult to deal with. Why do this to yourselves? Link to post Share on other sites
anisotrophic Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 @GnomeName I'm sorry you face those feelings of guilt. Asexual folks can be steadfast defenders of the validity of "unenthusiastic consent". I think it's important not to second-guess someone's right to consent. I hope you can hold on to that: to not hold yourself culpable for accepting consent that was given. Your own sexuality is a real thing – it may be how you experience and express love. It's not anyone's fault that you experience desire, and not anyone's fault that your partner does not. But I think being in love with someone whose sexual orientation cannot match your own desire – especially if they are repulsed by what you desire – can be a terrible thing. A bit like a lavender marriage – which can exist, but they aren't typical relationships. They may be open/poly. People enter into them for reasons other than sexuality, and – hopefully – find a way to be themselves despite that. But our sexuality and sexual orientations are a fundamental aspect to who we are, and I think a marriage can't be a happy one if it means people find that aspect of themselves suppressed or denied. It's heartbreaking advice, but taking *both* taking sex and marriage off the table may be the right thing to do – to talk more about what those things would mean for both of you. It might be worth considering whether you could have a deep and lasting friendship. These spirals of blaming ourselves for who we are are easy to fall into – for one or both partners – and I think the ideal is for each person to reassure each other that they are loved for the (a)sexualities they have. The advice everyone always gives is communication, with empathy. It takes two. A common trap in any relationship is for one partner to fall into an imbalanced, silent pattern of self-sacrifice. It's possible you're leaning that way right now, it's possible your partner was silently doing that too. Link to post Share on other sites
Acing It Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 A couple of perspectives I want to add (which may be right or wrong but at the very least they are a different perspective). - maybe she responds to any well meaning niceties from your side in the way she does because she could be worried they will lead to sex or a discussion thereof. In other words, it may not be the niceties that set her off but the association of them with something that makes her really uncomfortable. - not sure if you do this, but putting a lot of pressure on the situation may make her feel worse, at fault or the 'wrong' one in the relationship, whereas none of this is the fault of either of you. You are who you are. - I'm sure you realise this as well, but think very carefully about marrying before this is resolved. You know already that she won't suddenly become sexual, neither will you suddenly become asexual. If sex is that important to you, you need to resolve this somehow. What would you do if this can't be resolved is the most difficult/heartbreaking question potentially. I feel for you, feeling you have r*ped her, which is highly debatable but I don't know the situation. Some asexual people engage in sex because of how much they love the other person. If this is what happened, then this is their choice, but it can get to a point when it gets too much. Do you feel that is what happened? If so, then be grateful for the amount of love you have received from her. The situation you are in now still remains of course. This is all I have to contribute as others have said, it's very difficult to say anything about the situation without a lot more detail that may go beyond an online forum. Would you be able to find an asexual friendly relationship counsellor? Link to post Share on other sites
Karst Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 I don't have any sage advice to offer, but I hope things work out for both of you. Link to post Share on other sites
anisotrophic Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Acing It said: If sex is that important to you, you need to resolve this somehow. Not disagreeing with anything but wording here, but it can be a bit loaded to frame something as "if [X] is that important to you". I think it invites denial and endurance – "oh it's not *that* important". It's entirely possible for sexual people to take a mindset of "sex isn't that important to me" and deny this part of themselves. Humans have a terrible capacity to suppress and deny ourselves… to endure things believing that endurance was the "good" path to take. (As opposed to the "selfish" one.) It can cause a lot of pain later, to try to solve things this way. Link to post Share on other sites
Bzztoh Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 It may help to allow yourself to answer, at least to yourself, yes, it is *that* important. Link to post Share on other sites
brbdogsonfire Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 On 1/13/2020 at 7:58 AM, GnomeName said: Heylo friends. I’m GnomeName- long time reader first time poster. It seems to be something of a tradition to enjoy some cake on your first post so I baked some of my own to share haha 🍰 I gotta talk some stuff through with people who get it. My girlfriend and I have been together about 5 years. We’ve talked about marriage, and are waiting for a few life circumstances to sort out (school and family and the like) before I propose and make things official. Now. She is ace. I am not. I’ve known she was ace since before we started dating so I knew, albeit maybe not fully appreciated or understood, what getting into a relationship with an asexual person meant. We started having sex several months into our relationship, and it was a fairly typical schedule for two people in their early 20s. I never felt insecure about her wanting me, or being desireable, or my desire for her being welcomed. Within the last several months there’s started to be some friction though. Her willingness to have sex seems to have dropped off completely with no warning. It’s left me feeling awful. I can’t help, after every rejection, feeling like I’m inherently undesirable, and worse, predatory (hello there damage with being a butch lesbian who came out young in a conservative town) for even asking. If it were up to her, I don’t think we ever would have had sex. Which is fine!!!! but it makes me feel like all the times we’d had sex in the past were ..... r*pe. I don’t know what’s changing but even kisses now make her uncomfortable. Not to mention all the ways I show my desire and love for her, not even asking for sex, just a “hey I think you’re attractive and I’m so grateful you’re mine” make her uncomfortable now. It makes me feel so dirty. That I am my worst fear of someone who’s pushed myself on her. That I .... I don't know. I’m all kinds of messed up about it. Any conversation about our (my) feelings about this leads to her spiraling into self-loathing in a way I’m sure many of us are familiar with. I want to be able to talk and be open (communicating about literally everything else has always been our greatest strength) but it’s so hard when we both go in a direction of “I’m what’s wrong with this relationship and you can never be happy if you’re with me.” This woman is my soulmate. She and I work so well together in every other regard. I can’t lose her over this. I’m not even sure what advice or tips or ideas I’m asking for. I think I just needed to talk to a group of people who understand some of the intricacies. I've been dating the most wonderful person for 6 years and she happens to be asexual. Like with your relationship I knew before we started dating that she was asexual. I felt like it was some kind of rape in the past and that's an experience I tried to come to terms with on my own as I don't know how to discuss it. Eventually I talked to her about it and we discussed why it wasn't rape. This is a tricky situation but discussing it with your partner could help. Also knowing your partner I not into it causes me to crave sex overall much less which ended up being a positive thing for both of us. Link to post Share on other sites
MrDane Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Well, r*pe is when partner says no and you do it anyway. Against their will. “You can use my cavities to create friction and an illusion of mutually desired sex, but please dont expect any enthusiasm from my part (or parts)” is not r*pe. It can still be wrong though. Link to post Share on other sites
brbdogsonfire Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, CBC said: Do you feel like that's sustainable for a lifetime? Just curious. For me yes. For other people I don't know. I have a very low sex drive and it's caused a lot of friction in my past relationships. I also get the intimacy I actively crave through cuddeling and stuff like massages. I try to explain that when I post so other people know it's not advice that would apply to most people. I had a very late no sorry if that's a bad explanation. Link to post Share on other sites
groovygrievy Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 other perspectives which may not be accurate to your partner... - when i was in a relationship I felt sooo guilty for not wanting to have sex with my partner, and not having sex with my partner. I cried every day for a month because i felt so much guilt for something that everyone else said was so natural. I didn't tell him i was battling with these thoughts cause I thought I would lose him. He did know I was ace from about the 3 month mark (because thats when I knew). - I personally don't like kissing, yet I wanted to kiss my partner. I did kiss my partner, but I never enjoyed the actual act of it. But I loved seeing him smile after we kissed. I also never told him that I didn't like kissing as I had no idea how he would process that. I felt he would be in a similar situation to you where he felt like he overstepped and where he was forcing me. Even though he wasn't as I was doing it for him, I consented to it. -maybe your girlfriend isn't open to sex anymore because you have discussed marriage, and she finally gets to have you forever and she can be herself. It is possible that none of these are applicable to you and your girlfriend. I don't know how to approach this, but if it helps I don't think you were being predatory. I hope you work out a way to talk this out and you get the outcome you want. Link to post Share on other sites
brbdogsonfire Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 On 1/17/2020 at 9:23 AM, CBC said: @brbdogsonfire Ok, fair enough. I certainly hope it continues to work for you two. Thanks for the positive thoughts. Link to post Share on other sites
sexualwifewit Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Have you ever read the 5 Love Languages book? Her love language may not be physical touch or words of affirmation. She may feel love in other ways. My husband and I are currently trying to work through his new declaration of being asexual and I'm really trying to focus on what his love language is. We've been married almost 5 years and I thought I knew how he felt love. But I really didn't until I started talking to him and asking questions. *as a note: I strayed away from reading the 5 Love Languages for a long time because I had read a review online saying it is a christian based book. It is, but it's not so much that it's hard to read as someone who is atheist.* Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 21 minutes ago, sexualwifewit said: as a note: I strayed away from reading the 5 Love Languages for a long time because I had read a review online saying it is a christian based book. It is, but it's not so much that it's hard to read as someone who is atheist. *nods* I find the book itself a bit irritating but it does provide a really helpful framework for talking about the different ways people feel loved and communicate their love to one another. Link to post Share on other sites
Expedition Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 The whole acts of service 'language' sounds pretty transactional to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Memento1 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Expedition said: The whole acts of service 'language' sounds pretty transactional to me. Any love language can be transactional if it is used that way. Many people expect a response when they say "I love you". How many sexuals here are bereft when they express desire for their partner and get none in return? For that matter, how many asexuals give sex they don't want as payment for love they do? It is the expectation of a return that makes any act of love transactional, not the act itself. As a society I'd say we're pretty conditioned to conditional love, so much so that unconditional love is considered suspect. Link to post Share on other sites
Expedition Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Yeah, I can see that. I suppose I just don't get how doing something for someone that anyone could reasonably do (like most acts of service) is just as special as doing something for them that only you get to do (like sex, or touch). Hoovering just doesn't seem intimate, under any circumstances. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 40 minutes ago, Expedition said: Hoovering just doesn't seem intimate, under any circumstances. Sometimes someone caring enough to recognize you’re extra-tired and picking up a chore they wouldn’t normally do - no hints, no prompting - can be intimate in a “hey, you were thinking about me and you really *get* just what I needed today” way. It may not make sense to people who don’t receive love that way, just like touch being loving and intimate may not make sense to someone whose skin the thought of touch makes crawl. Link to post Share on other sites
Expedition Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 I do get this, in much the way @CBC explained, and little kindnesses can go a long way. But I really can't imagine hoovering could spark the visceral excitement of touch, because housework doesn't get routed straight through your amygdala. I wonder if the housework love language people just don't get that amygdalic buzz from anything. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, Expedition said: I wonder if the housework love language people just don't get that amygdalic buzz from anything. I get viscerally excited about things but touch is rarely one of them. I’m not comforted by touch either. My visceral reaction is to recoil. I would definitely get something close to viscerally excited if I came home to find that a block of chores I was dreading had been done for me and my evening ahead was a dinner date instead. Link to post Share on other sites
Expedition Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 An actual physical sensation? Link to post Share on other sites
Memento1 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 I'd say it can be learned. For instance if your family gave acts of service as an expression of love, it can trigger a "deep amygdalic buzz" (LOL) when someone does it for you, or you do it for someone else, because our mind associates that with the feeling of love and responds with the same hormones. Link to post Share on other sites
Expedition Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Memento1 said: I'd say it can be learned. For instance if your family gave acts of service as an expression of love, it can trigger a "deep amygdalic buzz" (LOL) when someone does it for you, or you do it for someone else, because our mind associates that with the feeling of love and responds with the same hormones. It's not hard wired though is it, and touch is. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 50 minutes ago, Expedition said: An actual physical sensation? The shivery rush of “wow, something really good is happening,” like you might get with music you really like? Sure. Link to post Share on other sites
Expedition Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Crumbs. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 18 minutes ago, Expedition said: It's not hard wired though is it, and touch is. Touch is definitely not hardwired to feel pleasant to everyone. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Just now, Expedition said: Crumbs. I’m not sure either of us can say how it compares given that we don’t have a common frame of reference on either thing. Link to post Share on other sites
Expedition Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Just now, ryn2 said: Touch is definitely not hardwired to feel pleasant to everyone. No, but it is hardwired. That's why some people recoil - would you recoil from someone not doing some chores on the same way? Link to post Share on other sites
Expedition Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Just now, ryn2 said: I’m not sure either of us can say how it compares given that we don’t have a common frame of reference on either thing. I don't see the actual physical mechanics of getting a visceral buzz from someone else hoovering. I do see how it would work with touch. Link to post Share on other sites
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