ryn2 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 I must have missed the news. Never put much stock in “sin.” Link to post Share on other sites
Snao Cone Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 41 minutes ago, CBC said: (Also obviously sex isn't a sin.) (except when that's the turn-on) Link to post Share on other sites
Anthracite_Impreza Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 I think part of the problem is that sex has so much moral baggage assigned to it already, it doesn't take much for a bitter, confused or simply egotistical ace to jump on the bandwagon of "sex is animalistic/morally impure/dirty". I used to, cos I didn't understand it, was scared of being forced into having it and didn't have anyone to turn to about my feelings cos I was sex-repulsed and everyone else was rabidly sex-positive (horny teenagers et al). Link to post Share on other sites
Snao Cone Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Horny teenagers are the real problem that causes this misconception. And for teenagers out there who feel overwhelmed by their horny cohort, be assured that things calm down in adulthood. There are still some unreasonably sex-obsessed adults, but other adults dislike them just as much. Link to post Share on other sites
Anthracite_Impreza Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Yeah, when you're having people making inappropriate comments about you, touching you without permission and having to deal with people using sexualised terminology constantly, despite it disgusting you, it's very easy to turn to hate sex entirely. As an ace in that situation you only see the negatives, because you don't desire it yourself and don't understand why everyone else is going mad and hurting you over it. I think there are a lot of (especially young) aces and aros who've been hurt this way and that's why they turn to hate; it's an understandable and well-documented reaction. What they need is reassurance there's nothing wrong with them, a place to vent, education on what's going on with their peers, and that regardless of orientation, NO ONE should be harassing them in that way. Of course, some aces just think they're superior for whatever reason. But there are people who think they're superior in every way so that's not really an ace vs sexual issue. Link to post Share on other sites
Anthracite_Impreza Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 28 minutes ago, CBC said: I come from a long line of vaguely arrogant arseholes on my dad's side of the family, so I find myself needing to break that habit here and there. 😬 I can also be an arrogant arsehole, just not on this topic Almost everyone is arrogant in some way, I wouldn't worry about it. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 I get the impression - both from people I’ve spoken with about it offline and things I’ve read here - that people prone to depression (clinical/neurochemical-mediated depression) suffer differently (not saying more or less, just differently; everyone is still an individual) from a lack of sex, lack of being desired, etc., than people who are not prone to depression. Those who are prone to depression sometimes use language to describe their experiences that those who *aren’t* prone to depression can’t really relate to and which therefore sounds a bit overdramatic. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, CBC said: vaguely arrogant arseholes Better a vaguely arrogant arsehole than an arrogantly vague one! Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 10 minutes ago, CBC said: might extend to people who struggle with other things like low self-esteem, insecurity, anxiety, etc. I think people in these categories (anxiety spectrum, at least) experience it differently, though. Anxiety (alone, without accompanying depression) doesn’t seem to present with the same “all the color is gone from my world” or “this is essential to my wellbeing and without it I will wither and die” experience that depression does. Not that it doesn’t being its own equally-significant/dangerous issues; they’re just different. ETA: which is probably a brain chemistry thing, as the imbalances that lead to - and therefore the things that treat or self-medicate - depression are not the same ones that lead to anxiety. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, CBC said: Who doesn't love dopamine? Me, apparently. On the rare occasion it has an effect at all, it mostly makes me more anxious. XD Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 12 minutes ago, CBC said: I should probably like dopamine less, tbh. As long as one of us has it covered... Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 In the meantime, here I am wondering if I've ever even experienced this "dopamine" everyone's talking about Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Quote But yeah I have fairly poor self-control when it comes to doing anything that'll make me feel good, even if I know it's a bad idea. I have the opposite problem. Few things "feel good" which tends to me not really feeling like doing much of anything a lot of the time. Something that has been pointed out to me over and over again in my life (particularly from my mom) is how uninspired I am when it comes to taking the time and effort to make "good" or tasty meals. For me, eating is just a bothersome chore that I'd rather just get done with as soon as possible, which has led to me usually not eating particularly healthily. Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 At the very least, to me that wouldn't be on the same level as "bothersome chore". But it sure as hell doesn't fix my brain, either >_> Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Having a healthy relationship definitely did a lot for me in that regard. At the very least, I definitely feel way less debilitated by my depression than I ever have in the entire rest of the time I've had it (it was only diagnosed a few years ago, but it was definitely going on for longer) It is still there, yes; it'll probably always remain a part of me in some capacity, but many of these such mental conditions don't necessarily "go away" but rather you (hopefully) just become better able to deal with them over time and experience. Link to post Share on other sites
Anthracite_Impreza Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 1 hour ago, CBC said: Dopamine is how I get myself into various stupid situations. Or why, I guess. But in a weirdly calculated way. "Yeah! Let's do shit that feels good! But cautiously! After assessing the risk!" I'm a person with a strong aversion to any type of danger but a fierce love of gratification, lol. Same, but with added adhd >.< Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Philip027 said: In the meantime, here I am wondering if I've ever even experienced this "dopamine" everyone's talking about If not, high fives, I’m with ya! Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 1 hour ago, CBC said: I mean, the topic of this thread I guess -- sex. That's a great way to feel better, it... fixes my brain or something. That was my theory on why we see some of the depression-suffering people on here talking the way they do about sex (staving off depression, essential to wellbeing, etc.). Not that it may not be equally important to people who do not have depression, but the impact is different. Someone who has depression will “get” those sentiments where someone who doesn’t won’t, and may even call BS. It’s not BS, it’s just not a universal experience. I have (bad) anxiety but no depression whatsoever. That doesn’t mean I’m happy or hypomanic, just that I have never experienced those particular things. Link to post Share on other sites
Anthracite_Impreza Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 I can attest that I often describe things in ways that sound hella-dramatic and I do indeed have depression, so. I've been told that I can describe horrible things in almost beautifully poetic ways 🙃 Link to post Share on other sites
Anthracite_Impreza Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, CBC said: 38 minutes ago, ryn2 said: I have (bad) anxiety but no depression whatsoever. That doesn’t mean I’m happy or hypomanic, just that I have never experienced those particular things. This is going to sound weird, but... I find that almost fascinating. I started struggling with depression when I was about 11 and I've no idea what it's like to be an adult without depression. Ya know what? Same. I can't imagine living life without depression, anxiety, autism or adhd. Like, how does that even work? I still struggle to believe when people say they had happy childhoods free of abuse because it's so ubiquitous to me. 7 minutes ago, CBC said: That's a great skill to have, imo. (Unrelatedly, I haven't found the totem pole you google requested yet. 😕) It's a twisted one when you write the sick shit I do (I know, we can't find it either! We did find some other... interesting things though) Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 52 minutes ago, CBC said: This is going to sound weird, but... I find that almost fascinating. I started struggling with depression when I was about 11 and I've no idea what it's like to be an adult without depression. No, that sounds totally understandable and reasonable. My father was OCD and my mother definitely had some anxiety and body image issues, and her dad was an alcoholic, but there was no depression among my relatives. I didn’t really understand how different the experiences of primary anxiety and depression (even with anxiety) actually are until it became clear (late in the process) that my most recent ex and I really didn’t understand one another. Like, at all. Over the time I knew him I also made a close friend with depression and she’s been very helpful in making sense of it for me. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 42 minutes ago, Anthracite_Impreza said: Ya know what? Same. Also same (but different!). I cannot imagine what it would be like not to have “my” flavor of anxiety. Or neglectful parents who were too far up in their own crap to help with mine. Link to post Share on other sites
acematt Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 On 1/17/2020 at 7:41 PM, CBC said: Not essential in the same way for basic survival, no. Duh. We're not talking about merely surviving in the sense of getting oxygen and not starving to death, though. You don't have any psychological needs in order to feel mentally and emotionally healthy and fulfilled in life, huh? Curious. No, I'm pretty sure I got what you're saying through my thick skull. It's wrong, but ok. Also no. I'm a fairly intelligent person and not "mentally handicapped". As kid I was involuntarily stuck in some of those "gifted" classes and such, so I'm pretty sure I'm not stupid. I've struggled with mental illness, but I suspect that's not what you're talking about; lots of people with mental health issues are incredibly smart, and you're insinuating sexual people are stupid. 😂 Ok then. CBC I was referring to people who put down asexuals thats all. Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 11 hours ago, ryn2 said: It’s nor really that different than someone saying “I’d die if I had to give up my dogs!” or “You’re gluten-intolerant?? How awful! It would kill me to give up pasta!” Would they *literally* die? Of course not. It’s one way people express “this is really important to me and my life (and potentially mental health) would suffer a significant blow if I had to give it up.” When it's said to someone who didn't like or need those particular things (dogs, pasta, or sex), it's often said in patronizing way, as though someone who didn't need those things was less than the person speaking. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 11 minutes ago, Sally said: When it's said to someone who didn't like or need those particular things (dogs, pasta, or sex), it's often said in patronizing way, as though someone who didn't need those things was less than the person speaking. I’m sure that’s sometimes true, but other times we (collectively) just unintentionally/unknowingly talk past one another. Link to post Share on other sites
acematt Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 On 1/17/2020 at 10:30 PM, Snao Cone said: Hey, just a question, but...do you ever think you're overdoing it with this interpretation of other people? Like, do you understand what your own projections onto them are? That's the issue you're criticizing in them, and it seems that you just want to spit it back at them. Plus, you're implying that thick skulls are related to sexuality, and I object to that because I'm asexual and have an EXTREMELY thick skull. Thick like you wouldn't believe. Immense. Like I told CBC, I was referring to ignorant people who criticize and put down asexual people. I meant no harm or putdown to anyone on this forum. After all this is an asexual forum designed for us asexuals to escape from the prejudice against us and find people we connect with. Again my humblest apologies. I'll tone down my rhetoric from now on. Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Quote I'm actually rather confused by people who don't have some degree of ability to ever comprehend mental health stuff (not the category I'm placing you in at all; you've had your own experiences with it and you sound like you've been able to develop an understanding of others' struggles). I had a friend who's one of the most cheery and extroverted people I've ever known... the "live, laugh, love" sort (honestly it's annoying, I don't trust people who aren't some degree of dark and cynical)... and her boyfriend (now husband) has struggled with depression. We haven't talked in a bunch of years now, just lost touch, but the way she spoke it was always clear that she couldn't comprehend what was going on with him. It isn't just "I'm feeling a bit sad" ffs. My mom was an absolute miserable failure at understanding my depression, despite having some form of it herself. I don't know to what degree she's looked into it, but at the very least I know she's been on and off SSRIs. She always figured there was a concrete reason I was feeling like shit on a particular day and would always ask me why. But sometimes (for some people), depression just makes you feel like shit and there isn't really any rhyme or reason to it. To this day I still don't think she understands that. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 1 hour ago, CBC said: I'm actually rather confused by people who don't have some degree of ability to ever comprehend mental health stuff (not the category I'm placing you in at all; you've had your own experiences with it and you sound like you've been able to develop an understanding of others' struggles). I think it’s similar in a way to the ace v. sexual issue... in a lot of circles it’s not talked about, and then when it is sometimes there is just no common ground. I know enough to feel very sympathetic, and I can certainly empathize broadly with how mental health issues can really disrupt your life, but I don’t know what it’s actually like to live in it like someone else with clinical depression may. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 28 minutes ago, Philip027 said: She always figured there was a concrete reason I was feeling like shit on a particular day and would always ask me why. But sometimes (for some people), depression just makes you feel like shit and there isn't really any rhyme or reason to it. To this day I still don't think she understands that. This was a hard thing for me and ex to get past. For me, the difficult part was that he never knew what was wrong, not until days or weeks later... even when it was obvious from outside the situation what the problem was. That, and the outward presentation of “nothing is actually wrong; my depression is just flaring up” and “I haven’t admitted it to myself yet, but in a week I’m going to be furious with you for X and it’s going to be something I bring back up forever” were exactly the same. I’m sure the whole thing was equally frustrating to him for different reasons. Link to post Share on other sites
ryn2 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 21 minutes ago, CBC said: My parents never once asked me what was going on with me when I began struggling as a kid, they just focused on the outward signs and tried to "stop" them in various ways. No one ever gave a shit what was happening in my head, or if they did they didn't show it in a useful or very compassionate way. I became a very secretive person *nod nod* The lesson I took away was that I would get in trouble for admitting/showing anything, rather than getting assistance, concern (for me), etc. Link to post Share on other sites
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