Are these people asexual?

[Gifted With Singleness]

I was debating putting this in Hot Box, since this thread is practically begging to turn into yet another definition debate. But I'm putting it here because I'm mainly just interested in seeing how the numbers pan out.

 

I get the impression that people are using different definitions, not just of asexuality, but of sexual attraction, arousal, and other related terms. This can make it extraordinarily difficult to have productive conversations about what counts as asexuality, so I would like to try something.

 

I've listed a bunch of hypothetical descriptions of people's sexualities, in language that is as unambiguous as I can think of. For each of these descriptions, I would like you to select whether or not you would consider this person asexual. And in case you're the kind of person who's extremely put off by the thought of labeling others, just imagine these descriptions applied to you and think about whether or not you would consider yourself asexual in these scenarios.

 

And when I say "asexual", I mean that the asexual label fits. In other words, do you think it makes sense for someone fitting the description to say, "I'm asexual"?

 

I've also included some other options in case things aren't so clear cut. For example, if you saw the description, "I like to eat cake", that doesn't help you determine whether or not the person is asexual, so you would select "Not enough information". Also, if a description sounds like a contradiction or impossibility (or too vague to be understandable), you can select "This description makes no sense".

 

Hopefully this can help us understand where the definition debates are really coming from, and where people would most disagree on whether or not someone is ace. If one of these descriptions gets a nearly 50-50 split in responses, I will consider that noteworthy. Conversely, if there is near unanimous agreement on whether or not a particular description fits within the scope of asexuality, that should tell us that the description isn't quite as controversial as we might like to think.

[Skycaptain]

There is one problem with this. People who identify as grey or demi are totally ignored. Questions 4 & 5 almost perfectly define someone who identifies in either of these two areas. 

[œddy]

Given asexuality is something only an individual can decide, I was tempted to answer 'not enough information' for every single question. Only 2,5,7 made me think it was concrete enough to judge as likely a sexual person. 9 is about the only one I remotely identify with, despite being a little on the absurd side.

[Gifted With Singleness]

9 minutes ago, Skycaptain said:

There is one problem with this. People who identify as grey or demi are totally ignored. Questions 4 & 5 almost perfectly define someone who identifies in either of these two areas. 

Part of the controversy surrounding the term "asexual" concerns whether or not asexuality is a spectrum. Some people would say that gray/demisexuals are asexual (or asexual spectrum). Some people would say that gray/demisexuals aren't asexual. They're either (allo)sexual, or they're between asexual and (allo)sexual.

 

My poll was intended to be about the "asexual" label specifically, which is why the second option says "not asexual", rather than sexual or allosexual. If a gray/demisexual person said "I'm asexual", would you consider that an accurate statement? That's part of what I'm trying to poll here, and I'm afraid that including graysexual and demisexual as other options would undermine that goal.

 

I do understand how this can be confusing, though, since there are in fact gray areas. Instances where it's not clear whether or not the "asexual" label fits. That's what the last three choices are meant to cover.

 

Do you have any suggestions for how I can improve this poll, taking into account the concerns I just mentioned?

[Skycaptain]

@GiftedWithSingleness, add an extra vote option "this suggests grey/demi sexuality"

 

I'd quietly leave "Is asexuality a spectrum" for a while, the last shitstorm here hasn't settled yet 

[thyristor]

I thinl it's a fairly good setup. I cant think if any better questions right away, but i can imagine that you can redo the poll a couple of times with improvements after a few months.

The only thing that xomes to mind would be an additional possibility of ading a reason for thw not asexual option, and an additional condition for the asexual opotion  but that could get bulky very quickly. As in:

o yes, asexual

o asexual but only if (inseet missing info)

o not asexual, because (insert reaso)

 

Sry for the typos, im on smartphone...

[Gifted With Singleness]

10 minutes ago, Skycaptain said:

@GiftedWithSingleness, add an extra vote option "this suggests grey/demi sexuality"

 

I'd quietly leave "Is asexuality a spectrum" for a while, the last shitstorm here hasn't settled yet 

Do you think it would make sense to change "other/unsure" to "other (gray/demi)"? Those are technically "other" labels, and they often reflect uncertainty as to whether or not you're "truly asexual".

 

I'm a bit hesitant to change an answer choice after people have already selected it, but that seems like the most natural option to me. I don't want the answer choices to be too redundant.

[Skycaptain]

Grey/demi members may feel that they are being ignored, so I'd include them as an extra option. 

Unfortunately, being realistic, this is the sort of poll that will potentially cause ructions with any group who feel that they have been overlooked. Transpeople and gender questioning who feel that they cannot have a true sexual identity until their body matches how they identify as opposed to how they present for example 

[Gifted With Singleness]

18 minutes ago, Skycaptain said:

Grey/demi members may feel that they are being ignored, so I'd include them as an extra option. 

Done

[Knight of Cydonia]

My definition of asexual is essentially "does not have an intrinsic desire or want for partnered sex."

 

1. I get an erection when I see a woman I think is beautiful, but I would never have sex in a million years.
Asexual. Arousal is not the same as desire for sex. The point is that they would never have sex.

 

2. Sex is very important to me, and I would be miserable without it. But I have a hard time maintaining an erection.
Not Asexual. Having erectile dysfunction doesn't make someone asexual. The point is that they would be miserable without sex.

 

3. I crave sex so very badly that I don't give a rat's ass who I have sex with. I will have sex with literally any willing participant, and I couldn't care less about them as a person.
Not Asexual. This person sounds like a sex addict!

 

4. If it were up to me, I would never have sex. But I'm in love with my partner, and I have a positive willingness to have sex with them to make them happy.
Asexual. Being willing to have sex for an external reason like making a partner happy doesn't make someone sexual. The key is that without such a reason they would otherwise never have sex.

 

5. I really want to have sex, but I need sex to be an expression of love. Hookup sex will not do.
Not Asexual. Plenty of sexual people don't desire hookup sex, and will only want to do it with someone they love. Really wanting to have sex is decidedly not asexual.

 

6. Masturbation and partnered sex are equally desirable to me in and of themselves. But there are certain conveniences that come with having a sexual partner, so that's what I pursue.
Not Asexual. Asexuals might desire masturbation, but they wouldn't desire partnered sex; that's the reason they're asexual.

 

7. I desire sex enough to pursue it, but my desire is still significantly less than average.
Not Asexual. Average, less than average, above average... you're still sexual as long as you desire sex enough to pursue it.

 

8. I used to desire sex with my partner, but now I don't, and I'm distressed as a result.
Not Asexual. I'm of the belief that because they weren't asexual in the past, they aren't now... though I kind of border on "Unsure" for this one.

 

9. I love porn! Porn is the best thing ever! Can't get enough porn! I don't want to have sex, though. Porn gives me all the sexual satisfaction I could ever ask for.
Asexual. Porn addict or not, it's the not wanting to have sex that I'm looking for here. Asexual people can still have a libido that can be relieved through porn if they so choose.

 

[Grumpy Alien]

Who said asexual to 2? 🤨

[Philip027]

In my book only #4 is someone I'd call ace.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Philip027 said:

In my book only #4 is someone I'd call ace.

Same. I guess the last one depends on additional information. 

[SithLord]

1) Ace. Arousal is not sexual desire or attraction, it's just a biological response we can't control.

2) Not ace. Who the heck would say ace? That's literally one of the most basic and generic descriptions of a sexual person.

3) Not ace. On the extreme end of it, I'd say. Might need help.

4) Ace. Having sex with someone doesn't mean you're not ace. What's important is what the person wants/desires.

5) Not ace. Pretty normal, actually. Most sexuals I know aren't into hookups but prefer a partner or commitment.

6) Not ace. Basically they like sex alone or with people but would prefer partnered? A bit of a grey area but pretty sure it'd definitely not ace, even if it might be something more like grey.

7) Grey/demi. Actually sounds like a good description of that spectrum/middle ground.

8 ) Other/unsure. If it weren't for the distressed part, I'd say they were sexual, now are asexual, or could be grey-sexual depending on the person's preferences. However, the distressed part makes me want to refuse to label it because of mental health and labels and "only you decide" stuff.

9) Asexual. Though seems to like porn a lot. Enjoying something, even if it's erotic, doesn't make one sexual. 

[Zebrafinch]

I'd say 3 is aro. Definitely not asexual, but very likely aromantic.

[Ita25]

The way I view the term asexual is whether you desire sex or not. You can have all the attraction, love porn, love masturbating, and "round the bases" with your partner, but if you don't desire sex, you're asexual. I personally think you can even have sex and still be asexual. If the sex you're having it just to please your partner or for any reason not including your desire for it, I think you're still asexual. 

 

Then there are folks who for the most part derive no pleasure and have no desire for sex, except for in particular situations, like a demisexual who desires it only when in a close romantic relationship. 

 

If you crave sex at all, I think asexual is not the term for you. You very well may fall somewhere on the spectrum though! 

[Gifted With Singleness]

In case you're wondering, here's my rationale for each of the descriptions I included:

 

Quote

1. "I get an erection when I see a woman I think is beautiful, but I would never have sex in a million years."

I've seen people describe sexual attraction as looking at someone and getting aroused. If this is what sexual attraction is, then the desire and attraction definitions appear to conflict here.

 

Quote

2. "Sex is very important to me, and I would be miserable without it. But I have a hard time maintaining an erection."

This is basically the flip side of #1. If arousal determines your sexual orientation, and this person has problems with arousal, then is this person ace? I included this as a separate description from #1 because I can anticipate someone having an "either/or" definition of asexual, like "not experiencing sexual attraction or not wanting to have sex".

 

Personally, I would interpret the first two descriptions as examples of arousal nonconcordance, with erectile dysfunction being a serious form of #2.

 

Quote

3. "I crave sex so very badly that I don't give a rat's ass who I have sex with. I will have sex with literally any willing participant, and I couldn't care less about them as a person."

Is it possible to want to have partnered sex despite not being sexually attracted to anyone? And if so, what would that look like? Well, if sexual attraction is a feeling about a person, where you're drawn to them on the basis of their sex appeal, and if sexual desire is a feeling about the act of sex itself, then this description is what comes to my mind. You don't care who you have sex with; you just want sex. Of course, this is a very over-the-top example, and this person very much strikes me as a sex addict.

 

Quote

4. "If it were up to me, I would never have sex. But I'm in love with my partner, and I have a positive willingness to have sex with them to make them happy."

This seems to be a common description of what many people would call sex-favorable asexuality. This person has a positive willingness to have sex, so they're not indifferent. But they still have no inherent desire for sex. Other people seem to define sex-favorable asexuality as wanting to have sex with someone despite not being sexually attracted to them, which I attempted to cover in #3.

 

Quote

5. "I really want to have sex, but I need sex to be an expression of love. Hookup sex will not do."

What exactly is demisexuality, and does it fall under the asexual spectrum? It seems to me like there are effectively two main definitions of demisexuality floating around:

 

A) Needing an emotional connection before having sex

B) Needing an emotional connection before experiencing sexual attraction

 

If sexual attraction typically kicks in way before you act upon it, then how would you label someone who experiences attraction before developing an emotional bond but would never act on it until after the emotional bond has been formed? These different definitions lead to different results. The way I interpret this description is that, if you consider this person demisexual, then you're operating on definition A. Honestly, I might want to flesh this out a bit more in another post, since demisexuality seems to have its own definition debate, and I'm curious as to how the numbers would pan out on that.

 

Quote

6. "Masturbation and partnered sex are equally desirable to me in and of themselves. But there are certain conveniences that come with having a sexual partner, so that's what I pursue."

Is it possible to want to have sex with a specific person without being sexually attracted to them? If so, this is the best example I can think of for something like that. This is different from #3 in that here you do presumably care who your sexual partner is.

 

Quote

7. "I desire sex enough to pursue it, but my desire is still significantly less than average."

How close do you have to be to the single point of zero sexual desire before it makes sense to identify as asexual, aspec, or graysexual? Is it enough for your desire to be noticeably less than average, or is your standard more strict than that?

 

Quote

8. "I used to desire sex with my partner, but now I don't, and I'm distressed as a result."

It's not unheard of for people to lose their desire for sex over time. Does this mean that your sexuality is fluid and you're asexual now? Does your distress indicate that you're not truly asexual, since an actual asexual person wouldn't really care about the loss of desire?

 

Quote

9. "I love porn! Porn is the best thing ever! Can't get enough porn! I don't want to have sex, though. Porn gives me all the sexual satisfaction I could ever ask for."

It's one thing to watch porn because you want to masturbate and porn makes that easier. But this person seems to find a lot of enjoyment out of porn in and of itself. Does that change things? I suppose you could make the argument that this level of enjoyment in porn borders on voyeurism, which doesn't seem very asexual. Also, many people would say that porn rewires your brain and makes you lose sexual attraction to people in real life. Is that why this person doesn't want to have sex, and if so, does that make this description incompatible with asexuality?

 

 

By the way, don't feel bad if you interpreted these descriptions differently than I did (even though I'm literally the one who wrote them). If the language I used is more ambiguous than I thought, then I think that's worth noting.

[R_1]

I don't know which I voted for, however, I ended up deciding these:

1. Asexual
2. Not asexual
3. Not asexual
4. Asexual
5. Not asexual
6. Not asexual
7. Not asexual
8. Not asexual
9. Not enough info

On 1/7/2020 at 11:15 PM, CBC said:

4 seems to be. 1 possibly identifies that way but I'm going to assume in reality they have some sort of mental block or something.

Erm, 1 is more of an automatic reflex.

[R_1]

1 minute ago, CBC said:

That's fair; I deliberated over that for a while. I can accept that's probably true for some people... bit of a case-by-case thing. I still consider it sexual attraction of some sort, although that reminds me of why I don't like the phrase "sexual attraction", as it can denote multiple things.

The question is: Isn't the only thing that matters if that if you really want to have sex? That's what matters. If you don't want sex, then I wouldn't put it under sexual attraction.

[Jrae01]

#9 - how do you know which one comes first; the lack of desire or the fascination with porn/masturbation?

 

I ask because my husband has just recently started admitting that he has never been interested in sex with me. He is claiming he is asexual but only started claimimg this after I caught him lookimg at raunchy porn. I was able to get him to admit to doing it "on occasion" throughout our marriage, all while lying to me and claiming the whole time (15 yrs) that he had no desire, no libido, no energy to even look at porn/mb, let alone be with me.  

 

I can totally see how he may be asexual because of the porn.

 

Or

 

He could be asexual and just doesn't want partnered sex.

[gisiebob]

ah, two other folk had the wherewithal to notice all of these had 'not enough information' cause the (a)sexuality police don't exist

[Iam9man]

Interesting. Potential shitstorm, but interesting nonetheless!

 

I found all questions relatively straightforward to answer and it would appear my views largely align with the majority view.
 

Hopefully without starting any arguments or invalidation, I’m curious what the logic is for believing the below is not asexual. The majority view is that it is, but a significant minority said they believe it isn’t. Could someone who believes this doesn’t indicate asexuality respectfully/tactfully say why? (If you don’t think you can without potentially starting an argument please drop me a PM 😊). Genuine curiosity, not looking for a fight.

 

1. "I get an erection when I see a woman I think is beautiful, but I would never have sex in a million years."

[WanderingKate]

1) Asexual- important part is that they would never have sex themselves. Functionally asexual is still asexual in my opinion. 

2) Not asexual- this person obviously desires sex mentally/emotionally, but just has difficulty with the physical aspects of it. Not asexual- they obviously do experience desire. 

3) Not asexual- fairly self-explanatory- this person just really enjoys sex. 

4) Asexual- This person seems to have no intrinsic desire for sex, but does it to please their partner. From the details we have, it appears likely they are romantically attracted to their partner and want to make them happy through sex but have no desire for sex themselves. 

5) Not asexual- a lot of sexual people don't enjoy hookups. A lot of people do need that emotional connection- the majority of my friends would never sleep with a stranger just because he was attractive, and they are definitely sexual. Desiring sex, but only with a close connection, is still desiring sex. 

6) Not asexual- The majority of sexuals enjoy both partnered sex and masturbation. Even if they preferred masturbation, as long as their is still some desire for partnered sex as well, they are not asexual. 

7) Not asexual- this sounds like low libido to me. Not asexual. Desiring sex, but not frequently, is still desiring sex. 

8 ) Not enough information, but likely not asexual. If it distresses the person that they no longer experience desire, than they likely desire sex mentally/emotionally- but there is some sort of physical barrier. Or vice versa- perhaps there is some kind of mental barrier despite the fact they desire it physically. This is one case where I would suggest visiting a doctor- a sudden drop in libido could signal a health issue of some sort. Conversely, then again the question specifies that the person has lost desire for their partner...have they lost attraction entirely, or just to their partner? the person may just not be attracted to their partner anymore, perhaps the attraction has faded, and with another person they may experience desire normally. 

9) Asexual. Watching porn is generally a solo sexual act to aid masturbation. Unless they want to watch porn with a partner....it's not a desire for partnered sex. Asexual. 

[Janus the Fox]

All of these lack of enough detail to determine either way for me.

[Rare Aztec Whstling Chickn]

4 is the only one that's actually asexual. The rest are either normal sexual, or just bullshit scenarios, some with possibly slightly lacking info.

[Iam9man]

2 hours ago, Una Salus Victus said:

4 is the only one that's actually asexual. The rest are either normal sexual, or just bullshit scenarios, some with possibly slightly lacking info.

I’m curious what the logic is for believing the below is not asexual. Could you respectfully/tactfully explain why? If you don’t think you can without potentially starting an argument please drop me a PM. Genuine curiosity, not looking for a fight 😊

 

1. "I get an erection when I see a woman I think is beautiful, but I would never have sex in a million years."

[Rare Aztec Whstling Chickn]

One is getting a physical reaction to another they find attractive and yet isn't taking into account what would actually happen if the two were together and spent a lot of alone time. It is however worded so badly I'd put this under the bullshit scenario I mentioned.

[Philip027]

1 hour ago, Iam9man said:

I’m curious what the logic is for believing the below is not asexual. Could you respectfully/tactfully explain why? If you don’t think you can without potentially starting an argument please drop me a PM. Genuine curiosity, not looking for a fight 😊

 

1. "I get an erection when I see a woman I think is beautiful, but I would never have sex in a million years."

It's one thing to get random erections or have it happen as a result of direct physical stimulus; it's another thing entirely to consistently get them merely from the sight of a "beautiful woman".  That's clearly a form of sexual attraction.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Iam9man said:

I’m curious what the logic is for believing the below is not asexual. Could you respectfully/tactfully explain why? If you don’t think you can without potentially starting an argument please drop me a PM. Genuine curiosity, not looking for a fight 😊

 

1. "I get an erection when I see a woman I think is beautiful, but I would never have sex in a million years."

You and I disagree on a lot, but I agree with you on this; Getting an erection is just an involuntary response. I mean, heck, there are men who get r@ped by old women and still get an erection when she gets naked (this is an actual case I'm thinking of), because somehow their body reacts even though they absolutely don't want the sex. So it's totally understandable that seeing big breasts on a pretty lady or whatever could give someone a hard-on even if they have no desire to connect sexually with anyone (I have an asexual ex who actually experienced erections like that all the time, he HATED it and wanted to chop his dick off as a result) 😧

 

Yes it could potentially be called a form of sexual attraction, but not the kind that counts when determining asexuality. That's why 'sexual attraction' can be a really useless term, because not all forms 'count'. Just like we use the word 'love' for all kinds of things, but when talking about a romantic partner the type of 'love' we have for our kids is totally irrelevant because it's a different kind of love, it just has the same name!

 

Edit: So for example, with my ace ex - his aesthetic attraction triggered erections, even though said erections meant nothing to him and he absolutely hated them!!! 

 

Edit 2: whereas for me, no matter how hot I think someone is, I can't get aroused from seeing them 😧 the muscles inside my thighs loosen up a bit (lol) but my actual genitals don't react. No wetness or anything. That doesn't make me 'not sexual' though, just because I don't get lady erections when I see a tasty-looking morsel

[œddy]

6 hours ago, Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?) said:

just because I don't get lady erections when I see a tasty-looking morsel

What if the food is really spicy?