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Gender fluidity and it's lack of neurological studies


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blah blah just copying and pasting my comment to start a discussion and hopefully results.

 

Does anyone question why gender fluidity exists? How in the actual hell is it possible? Gender identity is a shit ton more than just a feeling. It's a neurological phenomenon with the brains receptors not recognizing certain parts of the body or reacting to the socially implied self image. When in fact another exists within the head. Phantom erections occurring in pre-T guys is enough to say something. Not to mention the high percentage of MtF and FtM (and nb but the study did not include them) that did not experience phantom limbs during bottom and top surgery. Depersonalizaton can occur as well with the dysphoria being the root of it and that is not just some feeling. 

 

So how does science explain gender fluidity or the many crazy ways people can experience it. Nonbinary genders like these are far more complicated than just feeling like a different sex or perhaps neither. It's much easier to grasp a theory to explain those occurrences (The Androgen Theory). I really want to see how this would work in the brain. It's high fascinating to imagine people experiencing the ability to switching around their neurological wiring to different features of both sexes or masculinity/ femininity if that's your preference. The dysphoria however is not fun to think of. There's a significant lack of scientifically studies to understand this better and how gender fluidity occurs. Not to mention having proper studies to prove your existence (sad that you must but it's an absurd ideas to those who cannot understand it well) rather than cultural backings. While there being multiple genders in different cultures can point towards something, it's not a good enough argument nor a good footing for a foundation of evidence. Psychology is technically a science and the socio-culture part (or sociology) as one stand point merely isn't enough. Psychology also tends to refer to observations made by either introspection or the observer rather than neuroscience. We do not need to imply gender identity/dysphoria are just "observed feelings"(Obviously there are functions in the brain that back what Psychology puts forth. However, that is a separate piece of the puzzle). As this can imply that those feelings can be manipulated.

 

As if gender identity is some sort of identity crisis that can be worked through. An example would be trauma (complicated topic but this is simplifying it), psychotherapy can be used to help ease the the experiences of the victim and help them recover. Psychotherapy however, will do very little for gender dysphoria. I imagine you've understood my point since the beginning. I do hope any local science fanatics will add to the studies of gender fluidity. I know the bit of evidence I described could could as observations as they come from the patients themselves rather than an MRI but it's a starting point. Hopefully this comment will increase the curiosity of those who read it. I fully believe (mostly, still just a binary trans man who doubts a bit) that gender fluidity is possible and happens. I just wish I knew how such an anomaly does.  

 
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Galactic Turtle

Well... from what I understand there are varying camps on this.

 

One of those camps says that gender literally is just a feeling. Because it's a feeling your gender can be whatever you want it to be.

 

Another camp says your gender matches your sex unless you have a dysphoria disorder in which case it is something else.

 

Yet another camp says it could be either because gatekeeping is bad.

 

And another camp says most of all this is nonsense minus a small percentage who have a mental illness.

 

Each of these camps can bring up multiple articles supporting their viewpoints so I just remain having no opinion on any of it hoping that in 20 years it will all sort itself out.

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Which is why I hope this nonsense can be cleared up. Dysphoria can be more than just an icky feeling too. It can happen indirectly, can be disassociation, and euphoria can be a factor included in it. Not to mention it can appear in different amount and forms. I personally think you need dysphoria. How else are you to recognize something is off? (excluding agender people who do not experience dysphoria, i think there can be a pass if there is no gender identity at all to cause said dysphoria)

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I couldn't answer that question beyond speculation. I've done some googling on google scholar and in my university library, but can't find any relevant studies. They keep using the term 'gender fluidity' to indicate all binary and nonbinary trans identities, which is frustrating, because that's not the same thing.

 

Maybe the brain would have different states which it can switch between somehow, and those states cause a different gender identity (that is already present in the brain) to take the forefront and cause dysphoria?  But how those states come to be, and what causes the switch, I honestly have no idea.

 

Anyways, I'd love for some scientists to start studying this. Not to prove that it exists, because that much is already clear, but to explore why and how exactly it exists.

 

5 hours ago, KrysLost said:

I personally think you need dysphoria. How else are you to recognize something is off?

Gender euphoria is how, right? You need one or the other.

I do get where you're coming from though. I sure wouldn't have figured it out without dysphoria. Not to mention, I'd have ignored it, because if you don't have dysphoria that seems like a legitimate option you can take.

 

Also I'd think bigender people are the least likely to have dysphoria actually. Think about it, they identify with the male and female gender, so it would only make sense that those parts wouldn't cause them any issues. But then being recognized as the opposite gender of their agab would be likely to give them gender euphoria. Again, just speculation.

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Janus the Fox

Gender Fluidity concepts are an interesting one to me, anyone can be any 2 points on hand gender spectrum that can change or exists together where one side could be more of the other at different times of life.  Is a little like mine as I though it was at one point but better understand it now.  I can freely gender express male or female in clothing otherwise with an Agender.  Mixed gender and mixed sex do exist even if not physically looking one or the other.

 

Old MRI studies and those studies that conclude “your brain is male or female” are problematic to me.  That is an issue if say anybody requiring a Brain MRI for something else, to be told that “hold on, your brain is female but you’re physically male, we’ll have to put you on Transitioning HRT to match your brain” 

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Lonemathsytoothbrushthief
7 hours ago, KrysLost said:

Which is why I hope this nonsense can be cleared up. Dysphoria can be more than just an icky feeling too. It can happen indirectly, can be disassociation, and euphoria can be a factor included in it. Not to mention it can appear in different amount and forms. I personally think you need dysphoria. How else are you to recognize something is off? (excluding agender people who do not experience dysphoria, i think there can be a pass if there is no gender identity at all to cause said dysphoria)

Dysphoria is literally the thing we got after the trans community campaigned against the gender identity disorder diagnosis which implied that all trans people can be pathologised as having something "wrong" with them. Saying "you need dysphoria to be trans" is like saying, in less words, "you need to have the mental illness which specifies that not all trans people have it, and was constructed to make sure not all trans people are diagnosed as mentally ill, to be trans".

 

Also, I really doubt it's a good idea to drag "trans" people belonging in other cultures which have their own identities and histories, and actually recognised trans people for much longer without medicalising them, into the western pathologising system which we have.

 

I say all of this as someone with every kind of dysphoria, being forced to wait for any healthcare by the NHS, who won't be happy with my body for years, who is also genderfluid and sometimes presents as female despite usually identifying as male, and sees my own dysphoria as extremely linked to the reductive view of gender which my society has. My dysphoria is extremely connected to the idea that only people assigned male can be men, that I can never be a "real man", that other gender identities don't exist and that genderfluidity is just people who like dressing up and isn't a real trans identity. I know many people think all of these things, and I don't honestly know if I'd feel as strongly about how I would prefer my body to be(stronger jaw, facial hair, smaller hips, flat chest, etc) if society didn't hold these views.

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I've seen some studies about how, in fact, most people have a mix of "masculine" and "feminine" neurological features.  SciShow has a good video summarizing them.

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anisotrophic
On 1/5/2020 at 4:20 AM, Laurann said:

I'd think bigender people are the least likely to have dysphoria actually. Think about it, they identify with the male and female gender, so it would only make sense that those parts wouldn't cause them any issues. But then being recognized as the opposite gender of their agab would be likely to give them gender euphoria.

oh, maybe I should start self-labeling as bigender.

 

On 1/5/2020 at 5:21 AM, Lonemathsytoothbrushthief said:

Dysphoria is literally the thing we got after the trans community campaigned against the gender identity disorder diagnosis which implied that all trans people can be pathologised as having something "wrong" with them. Saying "you need dysphoria to be trans" is like saying, in less words, "you need to have the mental illness which specifies that not all trans people have it, and was constructed to make sure not all trans people are diagnosed as mentally ill, to be trans".

thank you. It was a huge thing for me to realize I was allowed to change, without needing to meet some threshold of suffering. I think it would be a stretch to say I'm not flavor of trans at this point... maybe I'm just some extreme body-modifying GNC female. So GNC I grow a beard, lol.

 

I think maybe there's a sense of, "does someone just announce they're another gender, and now they're trans, without actually changing (or wanting to change) anything about how they live their life?". To some extent we associate transgender status with transition and associated challenges? Dysphoria is often one of those, not always. And maybe if someone doesn't seem to be struggling with anything or changing anything more than a word they call themselves... it feels like an appropriation has occurred, feeding transmedicalist views?

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Just Somebody
On 1/5/2020 at 4:15 AM, KrysLost said:

Which is why I hope this nonsense can be cleared up. Dysphoria can be more than just an icky feeling too. It can happen indirectly, can be disassociation, and euphoria can be a factor included in it. Not to mention it can appear in different amount and forms. I personally think you need dysphoria. How else are you to recognize something is off? (excluding agender people who do not experience dysphoria, i think there can be a pass if there is no gender identity at all to cause said dysphoria)

I'll break this down in parts as someone who studied Biopsychossociology for a  long while of my life.

 

 

I studied a lot of freudian psychoanalysis and many say this human knowledge filed was way before it's time with its emotional and motivational approaches to behaviors and other phenomenons with biochemical, evolutionary, sociocultural, psychological and historical bases.

 

 

Freud was wrong about many stuff, he never understood women nor queer people as many say and I agree with, but he knew a lot about the human condition, as well as was one of the first neuroscientists out there (even if back at his time this field and word didn't exist).

 

 

 

Anyway, back to the point, he defended that something called the "principle of pleasure" (or happiness for short) was the ultimate motivation behind all of our actions, behaviors and atitudes that justifies and gives meaning to all of them, including the action to live, so a life without pleasure such as happiness is meaningless, just like what thought and deffended hedonistic Ancient Greek philosophers way before.

 

People totally forget that happiness ((gender) euphoria) is a major factor behind gender identification (which is also an action) with a certain sociocultural historical group or category of people.

 

 

Let me talk about identification (which is also an action or behavior) and gender identities now:

 

 

Gender identities, such as man, woman, and the infinite non-binary gender identities are just words or labels that are also the names of sociocultural and historically built groups or categories of people by people.

 

 

Now, coincidently, I happen to identify as genderfluid as my gender identity, and as so as part of the sociocultural historical group or category of genderfluid people.

 

And what it means to identify as genderfluid, well, I happen to change overtime how I describe myself by changing between identifying  (considering myself and feeling part) with different sociocultural historical groups or categories of gender identities.

 

That's just a way of saying that, IN MY CASE (please remember that different genderfluid people identifies with different gender identities words/labels and sociocultural historical categories or groups), sometimes I identify or consider myself part of the sociocultural historical group or category of men and describe myself with the gender identity word "man", other times I identify or consider myself part of the sociocultural historical group or category of women and describe myself with the gender identity word "woman", and other times I identify or consider myself part of sociocultural historical groups or categories of different non-binary gender identities and describe myself with words accordingly.

 

 

 

And why would I do that, what's the meaning or reason of this? Let's go back to the start of my post, and see that the answer is simply "pleasure" or happiness (euphoria). And now, you must be wondering but why it makes you happy doing it? Well... this is where things get tricky, the short answer for this question can be "because the same reason someone feels happy when they eat cookies, while others don't like to cookies".

 

 

I believe this last question is like one of the questions that a lot of people want to know, and not only regarding gender identification, as it is linked to all ares of human existence. We may not know the ultimate answer to this question but we can takes clues from what science discovered already: this answer has biochemical evolutionary, sociocultural, psychological and historical bases complexically interassociated in ways we quite doesn't understand yet, that said, "nature" and "nurture and culture" are complexically interassociated.

 

 

Some genderfluid people knows reasons or certain circumstances associated with their change in gender identification, like, for example, like certain surroundings, specific people, certain moments, certain neurodivergencies, certain other events, etc.

Which can be used to explain shifts in happiness towards identifying or considering yourself part of a sociocultural historical gender identity group or category.

 

The genderfluid and non-binary communities, as many Transgender and other gender non-conforming (GNC) people are interested in investigating and "justifying" their feelings,  existence and condition (what you already said), and look kinda aware of this as labels for differentiation of people part of the sociocultural historical genderfluid gender identity group,  category or umbrella, into more subgroups or subcategories based upon known factors associated with feelings and thus (gender) identification shifts have arrised.

 

 

 

 

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Just Somebody
1 hour ago, anisotrophic said:

oh, maybe I should start self-labeling as bigender.

 

thank you. It was a huge thing for me to realize I was allowed to change, without needing to meet some threshold of suffering. I think it would be a stretch to say I'm not flavor of trans at this point... maybe I'm just some extreme body-modifying GNC female. So GNC I grow a beard, lol.

 

I think maybe there's a sense of, "does someone just announce they're another gender, and now they're trans, without actually changing (or wanting to change) anything about how they live their life?". To some extent we associate transgender status with transition and associated challenges? Dysphoria is often one of those, not always. And maybe if someone doesn't seem to be struggling with anything or changing anything more than a word they call themselves... it feels like an appropriation has occurred, feeding transmedicalist views?

All words have impacts, sociocultural impacts (that also have) and psychological and emotional personal impacts.

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anisotrophic
1 hour ago, Just Somebody said:

All words have impacts, sociocultural impacts (that also have) and psychological and emotional personal impacts.

Yes, and... unfortunately, one of those impacts may be experienced by others as appropriating their own struggles. c.f. Cherokee princess myths vs. tribal identity.

 

I think many people are self-aware of this --too much so -- and so they hesitate to validate themselves.

 

I don't have any answer on how to navigate this tension. I sympathize with both sides; it took me four decades to decide I wanted a sex change, I think some people need a lot of space to be ok with reconsidering their experience of gender.

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On 1/5/2020 at 12:19 AM, Galactic Turtle said:

Well... from what I understand there are varying camps on this.

 

One of those camps says that gender literally is just a feeling. Because it's a feeling your gender can be whatever you want it to be.

 

Another camp says your gender matches your sex unless you have a dysphoria disorder in which case it is something else.

 

Yet another camp says it could be either because gatekeeping is bad.

 

And another camp says most of all this is nonsense minus a small percentage who have a mental illness.

 

Each of these camps can bring up multiple articles supporting their viewpoints so I just remain having no opinion on any of it hoping that in 20 years it will all sort itself out.

There's one more camp. I'm of the camp that one get the concept of gender, but is unable to relate to it. I'm cis-genderless for reference.

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Galactic Turtle
6 minutes ago, R_1 said:

There's one more camp. I'm of the camp that one get the concept of gender, but is unable to relate to it. I'm cis-genderless for reference.

If the world weren't freaking out about it I wouldn't even think gender is a thing. 

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4 hours ago, Just Somebody said:

I'll break this down in parts as someone who studied Biopsicossociology for a  long while of my life.

 

 

I studied a lot of freudian psychoanalysis and many say this human knowledge filed was way before it's time with its emotional and motivational approaches to behaviors and other phenomenons with biochemical, evolutionary, sociocultural, psychological and historical bases.

 

 

Freud was wrong about many stuff, he never understood women nor queer people as many say and I agree with, but he knew a lot about the human condition, as well as was one of the first neuroscientists out there (even if back at his time this field and word didn't exist).

 

 

 

Anyway, back to the point, he defended that something called the "principle of pleassure" (or happiness for short) was the ultimate motivation behind all of our actions, behaviors and atitudes that justifies and gives meaning to all of them, including the action to live, so a life without pleasure such as happiness is meaningless, just like what thought and deffended hedonistic Ancient Greek philosophers way before.

 

People totally forget that happiness ((gender) euphoria) is a major factor behind gender identification (which is also an action) with a certain sociocultural historical group or category of people.

 

 

Let me talk about identification (which is also an action or behavior) and gender identities now:

 

 

Gender identities, such as man, woman, and the infinite non-binary gender identities are just words or labels that are also the names of sociocultural and historically built groups or categories of people by people.

 

 

Now, coincidently, I happen to identify as genderfluid as my gender identity, and as so as part of the sociocultural historical group or category of genderfluid people.

 

And what it means to identify as genderfluid, well, I happen to change overtime how I describe myself by changing between identifying  (considering myself and feeling part) with different sociocultural historical groups or categories of gender identities.

 

That's just a way of saying that, IN MY CASE (please remember that different genderfluid people identifies with different gender identities words/labels and sociocultural historical categories or groups), sometimes I identify or consider myself part of the sociocultural historical group or category of men and describe myself with the gender identity word "man", other times I identify or consider myself part of the sociocultural historical group or category of women and describe myself with the gender identity word "woman", and other times I identify or consider myself part of sociocultural historical groups or categories of different non-binary gender identities and describe myself with words accordingly.

 

 

 

And why would I do that, what's the meaning or reason of this? Let's go back to the start of my post, and see that the answer is simply "pleassure" or happiness (euphoria). And now, you must be wondering but why it makes you happy doing it? Well... this is where things get tricky, the short answer for this question can be "because the same reason someone feels happy when they eat cookies, while others don't like to cookies".

 

 

I believe this last question is like one of the questions that a lot of people want to know, and not only regarding gender identification, as it is linked to all ares of human existence. We may not know the ultimate answer to this question but we can takes clues from what science discovered already: this answer has biochemical evolutionary, sociocultural, psychological and historical bases complexically interassociated in ways we quite doesn't understand yet, that said, "nature" and "nurture and culture" are complexically interassociated.

 

 

Some genderfluid people knows reasons or certain circumstances associated with their change in gender identification, like, for example, like certain surroundings, specific people, certain moments, certain neurodivergencies, certain other events, etc.

Which can be used to explain shifts in happiness towards identifying or considering yourself part of a sociocultural historical gender identity group or category.

 

The genderfluid and non-binary communities, as many Transgender and other gender non-conforming (GNC) people are interested in investigating and "justifying" their feelings,  existence and condition (what you already said), and look kinda aware of this as labels for differentiation of people part of the sociocultural historical genderfluid gender identity group,  category or umbrella, into more subgroups or subcategories based upon known factors associated with feelings and thus (gender) identification shifts have arrised.

 

 

 

 

Hmm I really like this post. Didn't come off as defensive but just explained another point of view. It's not like I don't agree with you. I completely do. Socio-cultural factors and the brain are very much intersected. If I'm to use an example, dysphoria/gender identity is observable and can be prove through it's consistency (I don't think I need to listen the experiment of this. It's well known). I just wish there could be more you know? I wish we could investigate the brain and discover why gender identity works the way it does and how the hell genderfluid people are even possible. I mean, it's crazy to imagine how it would even work.  I don't want your existence to feel so far fetched as it does to me. I'm just a binary trans man and I only have my experience. I'll definitely never be able to fully understand how things feel from your perspective. I have only an inkling but I still want to learn how it's possible, and I want to be able to validate people like you to the world. 

 

However, I imagine that's not how anyone like you would want it to go. You wouldn't want to fight for proof of your existence when you experience it everyday and know it's real. It's tiring to constantly try and validate yourself to other people. The fight for all forms of trans people has been a long and ugly one. I wish it didn't have to to be how it is, but evidence is needed to educate and form a properly based argument. Trans people are involved in more than their normal lives. We're in the middle of a trans rights movement and politics are far uglier than the hicks we try to beat over the head with pans. Matters are far more complicated in the bigger picture after all. Acceptance comes at a price it seems.

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On 1/5/2020 at 7:21 AM, Lonemathsytoothbrushthief said:

Dysphoria is literally the thing we got after the trans community campaigned against the gender identity disorder diagnosis which implied that all trans people can be pathologised as having something "wrong" with them. Saying "you need dysphoria to be trans" is like saying, in less words, "you need to have the mental illness which specifies that not all trans people have it, and was constructed to make sure not all trans people are diagnosed as mentally ill, to be trans".

 

Also, I really doubt it's a good idea to drag "trans" people belonging in other cultures which have their own identities and histories, and actually recognised trans people for much longer without medicalising them, into the western pathologising system which we have.

 

I say all of this as someone with every kind of dysphoria, being forced to wait for any healthcare by the NHS, who won't be happy with my body for years, who is also genderfluid and sometimes presents as female despite usually identifying as male, and sees my own dysphoria as extremely linked to the reductive view of gender which my society has. My dysphoria is extremely connected to the idea that only people assigned male can be men, that I can never be a "real man", that other gender identities don't exist and that genderfluidity is just people who like dressing up and isn't a real trans identity. I know many people think all of these things, and I don't honestly know if I'd feel as strongly about how I would prefer my body to be(stronger jaw, facial hair, smaller hips, flat chest, etc) if society didn't hold these views.

It's shitty and complicated. I should know. All of it fucking sucks. However, there's always going to be medical parts to some trans people. That's absolutely undeniable.  Doesn't mean it all has to be. 

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Just Somebody
Just now, KrysLost said:

Hmm I really like this post. Didn't come off as defensive but just explained another point of view. It's not like I don't agree with you. I completely do. Socio-cultural factors and the brain are very much intersected. If I'm to use an example, dysphoria/gender identity is observable and can be prove through it's consistency (I don't think I need to listen the experiment of this. It's well known). I just wish there could be more you know? I wish we could investigate the brain and discover why gender identity works the way it does and how the hell genderfluid people are even possible. I mean, it's crazy to imagine how it would even work.  I don't want your existence to feel so far fetched as it does to me. I'm just a binary trans man and I only have my experience. I'll definitely never be able to fully understand how things feel from your perspective. I have only an inkling but I still want to learn how it's possible, and I want to be able to validate people like you to the world. 

 

However, I imagine that's not how anyone like you would want it to go. You wouldn't want to fight for proof of your existence when you experience it everyday and know it's real. It's tiring to constantly try and validate yourself to other people. The fight for all forms of trans people has been a long and ugly one. I wish it didn't have to to be how it is, but evidence is needed to educate and form a properly based argument. Trans people are involved in more than their normal lives. We're in the middle of a trans rights movement and politics are far uglier than the hicks we try to beat over the head with pans. Matters are far more complicated in the bigger picture after all. Acceptance comes at a price it seems.

 

Okay lemme try a new approach then, let's dive a bit more into Biopsychossociology, I feel like I forgot something.

 

Let's break this down:

 

 

Our personalities (who we are) are constituted of our behaviors, actions and atitudes, which are product of the biopsychological or neuropsychological functioning of our brains, which depends on the structural organization or architecture of our brains, which is made of interactions between cells of different locations of our brains that are shaped or molded by our life experiences (our memories) with the surrounding environment (which is not only natural, but also sociocultural and historical) in interaction with our genetic material.

 

So you can say that we are (who we are right now) the product of the functioning of our currently brain structural organization or architecture, we are also our memories of experiences of interactions with the realities that surrounds us during our life times, as we also are biopsychossociocultural historical constructions ourselves because all of that.

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6 hours ago, Galactic Turtle said:

If the world weren't freaking out about it I wouldn't even think gender is a thing. 

Same. I'm sometimes very tempted to think it's all just a social construct. But even if it is one, doesn't mean it isn't etched in our brains, as @Just Somebody just said... 

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Just Somebody
6 hours ago, PoeciMeta said:

Same. I'm sometimes very tempted to think it's all just a social construct. But even if it is one, doesn't mean it isn't etched in our brains, as @Just Somebody just said... 

 

 

People wrongly believe that just because something is called an sociocultural historical construction it's all "made up", but in fact...

 

We are sociocultural historical constructs, the sciences are sociocultural historical constructs, reality is also an sociocultural historical construct, and all of this is very real.

 

 

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DuranDuranfan
On 1/5/2020 at 4:20 AM, Laurann said:

Also I'd think bigender people are the least likely to have dysphoria actually. Think about it, they identify with the male and female gender, so it would only make sense that those parts wouldn't cause them any issues. But then being recognized as the opposite gender of their agab would be likely to give them gender euphoria. Again, just speculation.

Actually, they can. I’m bigender and I’ve had chest dysphoria. Wearing binders alleviates it until I can get reduction surgery. Sometimes I wish my hips weren’t as wide as they are too.

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Just now, DuranDuranfan said:

Actually, they can.

Oh I wasn't questioning whether they could, of course they can. Just saying that it would make sense if they didn't :) 

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Just Somebody
On 1/7/2020 at 2:27 AM, Just Somebody said:

 

Okay lemme try a new approach then, let's dive a bit more into Biopsychossociology, I feel like I forgot something.

 

Let's break this down:

 

 

Our personalities (who we are) are constituted of our behaviors, actions and atitudes, which are product of the biopsychological or neuropsychological functioning of our brains, which depends on the structural organization or architecture of our brains, which is made of interactions between cells of different locations of our brains that are shaped or molded by our life experiences (our memories) with the surrounding environment (which is not only natural, but also sociocultural and historical) in interaction with our genetic material.

 

So you can say that we are (who we are right now) the product of the functioning of our currently brain structural organization or architecture, we are also our memories of experiences of interactions with the realities that surrounds us during our life times, as we also are biopsychossociocultural historical constructions ourselves because all of that.

I think i left this explanation too abstract to imagine....

 

 

So let's imagine an concrete example, Let's suppose that being happy to eat apples (what is a behavior or action) is part of who you are right now (your personality).

 

 

Remember where I ended my first post ? Let's address it.

 

 

On 1/6/2020 at 9:22 PM, Just Somebody said:

And why would I do that, what's the meaning or reason of this? Let's go back to the start of my post, and see that the answer is simply "pleasure" or happiness (euphoria). And now, you must be wondering but why it makes you happy doing it? Well... this is where things get tricky, the short answer for this question can be "because the same reason someone feels happy when they eat cookies, while others don't like to cookies".

 

 

I believe this last question is like one of the questions that a lot of people want to know, and not only regarding gender identification, as it is linked to all ares of human existence. We may not know the ultimate answer to this question but we can takes clues from what science discovered already: this answer has biochemical evolutionary, sociocultural, psychological and historical bases complexically interassociated in ways we quite doesn't understand yet, that said, "nature" and "nurture and culture" are complexically interassociated

 

That's where the explanations of my second post enter:

 

 

That one behavior: enjoyment of apples that's part of someone's personality (their identity) is part and manifestation of the neuropsychological/biopsychological/psychobiological functioning of the currently organization or architectural structure of their brains, which is composed of specific interactions between cells from different locations of their brains.

 

 

Now here's come part where "nature", "nurture" and "culture" mix and cannot be taken apart, it's where the biochemical evolutionary, sociocultural, psychological and historical bases of the answer we seek, in this specific case it is "why do you find happiness to eat apples?" More precisely, interassociate. It's really hard to separate all these bases but I'll try to break them for a better understand even though they shouldn't be seen as separate:

 

The biochemical evolutionary, pyschological and historical part is of the genetic material that is part responsible for defining or shaping how your brain should look like or work, that being said... how it's cells interactions should be structurally organized in order to produce behaviors, actions or atitudes as functions.

 

And the sociocultural, psychological and historical part is of the memories of the experiences of our interactions with the environments or realities that surrounds us during the singular courses of our own lives. Surrounding environments (that are not only natural, but also sociocultural and historical) where we learn, we develop or are built who we are being, and that happens because our life experiences (our memories) have the power to shape and model the structural organization or architecture of the cells interactions of our brains, and that said, also their functioning and by that, in the end, how we behave or act (resuming, they simply change us). 

 

 

 

So back to our example, why one finds or experiences happiness in eating apples, it must be because this person already had a genetic predisposition, that said, it was already written in their genetic material (DNA), and also because they formed memories of the experience of entering in contact with an apple while interacting with the surrounding environment while experiencing life.

Their genetic material was responsible for the development of an structural organization or architecture of brain cells interactions, that could be activated by specific memories of life experiences, and of which the behavior, act, action or atitude of enjoying apples could appear as an manifestation of this organization's functioning.

 

 

 

And there you have the Biopsychossociology of being happy to eat apples. We could also make an identity out of this behavior, action or attitude and separate people in a socioculturally historical built group or category of "likers of apples", like we could do with anything else.

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