Bigender?

[MintyLife88]

I'm curious, would it be bigender if I identify as a female, but prefer to use male pronouns? I'm not entirely sure, and if not could someone help me figure out what that would be called.

[Galactic Turtle]

I think that would simply be preferring a certain set of pronouns. Do you perceive yourself to be a man?

[MintyLife88]

3 minutes ago, Galactic Turtle said:

I think that would simply be preferring a certain set of pronouns. Do you perceive yourself to be a man?

Not really, but I still prefer to be referred to as a man and to look like one.

[Sarah-Sylvia]

Do you know why you prefer that?

[MintyLife88]

22 minutes ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

Do you know why you prefer that?

I'm honestly not completely sure, I just know I've always enjoyed cutting my hair really short and dressing in clothes from the boys section, and overall looking like a guy, and I've recently realized that when people call me sir, or they think I'm a guy when they meet me, I enjoy being called that, and recently it's been happening more and more with way I dress. But I still see myself as a female despite all that.

[PoeciMeta]

You might be non-binary~

Well technically bigender is a type of non-binary so yes you can be that, but not necessarily. Bigender means having two genders, so that can be male and female for you, does it seem like it's the case?

You could be anything, really, you're the only one you can know that... maybe yes, you have a masculine side and a feminine side? You could look up androgyne, or maybe gender-neutral. There are many, many terms, so it would be a lot of work to dissect them all, but short answer is, if you prefer male pronouns, you might be onto something, yeah. 

[elizabeth17]

4 minutes ago, MintyLife88 said:

I'm honestly not completely sure, I just know I've always enjoyed cutting my hair really short and dressing in clothes from the boys section, and overall looking like a guy, and I've recently realized that when people call me sir, or they think I'm a guy when they meet me, I enjoy being called that, and recently it's been happening more and more with way I dress. But I still see myself as a female despite all that.

ok so psa I'm not trans (if anything i'm kind of genderflux/agender person) however my partner is transmasc so I can repeat some stuff he's told me about figuring out his gender. Sex and gender are different. So, someone can be assigned female at birth and identify as a man/masc. Furthermore, the hegemonic trans narrative of being born into the wrong body comes out of some extremely fucked up stuff done to the intersex community and doesn't apply to all trans people. A lot trans folx I know don't feel as though they were born into the wrong body. So for that reason someone may not want to start T, have top surgery, or bottom surgery, etc. That doesn't make them any less trans. Some FTM humans, for example, may just not like their breasts (chest dysphoria) and experience social dysphoria (feeling like shit when they are misgendered, perceived as feminine, etc. and preferring masculine pronouns).. However, that doesn't mean they were born into the wrong body. They may enjoy other elements of their sex while not being cisgendered. So, from what I understand from trans friends of mine, you could identify as a guy or masc person (gender) while still enjoying being female (sexed body). I'm not trans nor an expert on this but I hope this helps. Maybe looking up stories from FTM or nonbinary masc people would help you get an idea of the massive diversity of the trans experience and give you something to think about! 

[Guest]

I’m genderfluid/nonbinary female. Which means that my biological sex is a female. But my gender identity can switch at any time/day/ moment depending on how i feel.

[PoeciMeta]

[Off topic but @Cocothecoconut nice profile pic ^^]

And yeah there is such a thing as nonbinary female~ demigirls can sometimes be considered as such, for example, but not only. Also a bigender's two genders can be demiboy and demigirl~

[Sarah-Sylvia]

4 hours ago, elizabeth17 said:

ok so psa I'm not trans (if anything i'm kind of genderflux/agender person) however my partner is transmasc so I can repeat some stuff he's told me about figuring out his gender. Sex and gender are different. So, someone can be assigned female at birth and identify as a man/masc. Furthermore, the hegemonic trans narrative of being born into the wrong body comes out of some extremely fucked up stuff done to the intersex community and doesn't apply to all trans people. A lot trans folx I know don't feel as though they were born into the wrong body. So for that reason someone may not want to start T, have top surgery, or bottom surgery, etc. That doesn't make them any less trans. Some FTM humans, for example, may just not like their breasts (chest dysphoria) and experience social dysphoria (feeling like shit when they are misgendered, perceived as feminine, etc. and preferring masculine pronouns).. However, that doesn't mean they were born into the wrong body. They may enjoy other elements of their sex while not being cisgendered. So, from what I understand from trans friends of mine, you could identify as a guy or masc person (gender) while still enjoying being female (sexed body). I'm not trans nor an expert on this but I hope this helps. Maybe looking up stories from FTM or nonbinary masc people would help you get an idea of the massive diversity of the trans experience and give you something to think about! 

That's more typical for non-binary people, because full trans people can rarely enjoy the body they were born with especially once they understand themselves to be trans, their body is the opposite gender than they know themselves to be. (hence why there's dysphoria)

[elizabeth17]

58 minutes ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

That's more typical for non-binary people, because full trans people can rarely enjoy the body they were born with especially once they understand themselves to be trans, their body is the opposite gender than they know themselves to be. (hence why there's dysphoria)

i've met trans binary people who feel this same way and do experience dysphoria. the "born into the wrong body" narrative doesn't work for all trans people including binary identifying humans. and i also know nonbinary people who experience dysphoria.

[Sarah-Sylvia]

6 minutes ago, elizabeth17 said:

i've met trans binary people who feel this same way and do experience dysphoria. the "born into the wrong body" narrative doesn't work for all trans people including binary identifying humans. and i also know nonbinary people who experience dysphoria.

Well born into the wrong body is just a feeling, so not everyone's going to have it. But the reasons for not transitioning are usually social, most trans people I know, if not all, would want to have the body. Some may have small peculiar preferences, but other than that would rather just be full on and have a body that matches their gender.

I've actually felt like I'm born into the wrong body(well, gender) lately. It's kind of new to me.. I've wished to have a female body, but didn't think in terms of feeling like it was an 'error' to be born a guy. I guess I feel differently now. I'm pretty tired of being a guy.

[elizabeth17]

3 minutes ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

Well born into the wrong body is just a feeling, so not everyone's going to have it. But the reasons for not transitioning are usually social, most trans people I know, if not all, would want to have the body. Some may have small peculiar preferences, but other than that would rather just be full on and have a body that matches their gender.

I've actually felt like I'm born into the wrong body(well, gender) lately. It's kind of new to me.. I've wished to have a female body, but didn't think in terms of feeling like it was an 'error' to be born a guy. I guess I feel differently now. I'm pretty tired of being a guy.

that's super valid! 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, PoeciMeta said:

[Off topic but @Cocothecoconut nice profile pic ^^]

And yeah there is such a thing as nonbinary female~ demigirls can sometimes be considered as such, for example, but not only. Also a bigender's two genders can be demiboy and demigirl~

[Thank you}]

 

I call myself non-binary female because sometimes i feel non-binary but at the same time i feel like my biologically sex. But other times i don’t feel any gender at all(with other words agender). It’s always like a roller coaster, and that’s it all ends with me being confused.

[PoeciMeta]

16 hours ago, elizabeth17 said:

you could identify as a guy or masc person (gender) while still enjoying being female (sexed body).

Sounds strange, but probably, yeah... 

I'm agender with a more ''masculine'' coded expression, but I'm glad I was born female, because female sex characteristics sound less... ''invasive'' than male ones, and easier to get rid of for some (compare chest and voice...). I do want all the femaleness of my body gone and don't identify with it in the slightest, but I still appreciate it, because I think my (personal) gender goal would have been harder to reach if I were biologically male. 

I also appreciate having been allowed more gender non-conformity than my brother. 

[anisotrophic]

@MintyLife88 it does sound very egg-ish! 😁

 

22 hours ago, elizabeth17 said:

A lot trans folx I know don't feel as though they were born into the wrong body.

So... to add an idiosyncratic experience to the mix,

 

I didn't feel like I wasn't female, I never felt I was "born into the wrong body". I lived as female for about four decades, had children – was pregnant, gave birth, nursed them. I don't mind the parts that are female, I'm glad I had those experiences.

 

But I didn't like being female. I came to a point where I knew it wasn't what I wanted to be in the future, and I would be unhappy continuing in that state – I didn't want to remain (fully?) female. I didn't want to keep being "female" in how people saw me, treated me, thought of me. (And I don't think telling them I'm non-binary and cross-dressing changed that.) So, for me, transition has been an active process – an active choice to change myself, in a sense. Of course, I didn't "choose" to experience the deep desire for change and frustration/unhappiness with being female, but I do feel I made a "choice" to no longer be that.

 

4+ months into T, I still feel pretty female. I think T has changed my behavior in ways that make me much more "male". That hadn't been a motivation, but now that I've experienced it I really appreciate this aspect. More slowly, it changes other things... my muscles, hair, fat, voice... most of that is also wonderful to experience, and I expect it will eventually change how others see me.

 

Which is to say, one can physically transition without feeling like the original gender was "wrong" or they "aren't really that gender". When I talk to docs about it, I talk about what I want in the future, rather than expressing dysphoria about where I am now – I can't imagine being this female in the future, I imagine my future self as much more masculine.

[Phantasmal Fingers]

I read this thread title as big ender! 😮

 

Now I realise it's supposed to be bi gender... 😆

 

Well, I suppose it would be small minded to assume you can't be bi gender and also be a big ender! 🤣

[Just Somebody]

I don't have time to answer about such doubts here right now but I already did there and I believe this can help you organize your thoughts: 

 

 

 

 

 

[SoIGuessImBatGirlNow]

You could be bigender. It's more than pronouns though. I've never ever and will never ever consider myself as a man. I'm AMAB, but dude, call me a man and...well...I'm an adult, I know how to bite my tongue. Also, though, I'm not woman either. Call me that and I'm like "I'm not, but whatever." I recently updated my gender on Facebook and was a little sad that 1) they forced me to choose which pronoun I want to be called and 2) they wouldn't let me choose both male and female. I would like to be called one of those, but don't care which so as long as it's not the only thing I'm referred to as. Thinking of myself as one gender...especially living that way forever...actually causes me to physically feel like I'm suffocating and builds a bit of anxiety inside me. I'm both genders. That's it. I refuse to define how much of one or the other...even to myself. Doing so shoves me in a corner and all I want to do is fight back and assert myself as not being whatever the label is. I'm bigender. I know it. I do have an issue with being told what do to...to some degree, so that may have influenced the whole refusal to define beyond the umbrella term, but it's the only label that's ever fit. Here's my advice. Try the label on. See how it fits. Define what bigender means to you (it does have an official definition, but within that it's something different for everybody). If you can't get how you define bigender to jive with how you see yourself then it's not you. Now, to do this you must...and I stress MUST...M-U-S-T, must...be as honest with yourself as possible. If you're not at least a slight bit afraid of what you my learn about yourself, you're not being honest with yourself. Your want to know has to outweigh your fear. When you figure it out you'll know. That's not to say that you won't need help along the way, that you won't need to ask for advice, and so on. C'mon, there's like 8,000 genders and 8,000 ways to be each gender. If God does exist I assume even she gets confused by the whole thing once in a while, lol When I finally figured out I am a bigender bisexual–Okay, so, I have ADHD and experience every single emotion I do like 1000x more than anyone else I've ever met, seen on TV, read about in a book, etc–So, when I figured myself out I cried, a little anyway. I was overwhelmed in the best way possible. What I did that lead me to find myself was, like I said, was to be honest with myself. I read as many different gender label definitions as I could. Some I was obviously not. I'm not transgender, I'm not agender or androgynous, etc; But I did try on a demi label for a short bit before I went back to being just a man. That did help me realize that I can't live as being just a man, or a man at all. I'm me. But, what is "me." For a day I called myself "me gender." Thazt's what helped the most. I got inside my head and labeled myself as being nothing more than me. It sorta put me in a gender neutral mindset. It cleared my head of any preconceived ideas and allowed me to just be me. I was allowed to forget about being anything and just feel who/what I am. When I started narrowing it down I played the devil's advocate. "Nah, I'm not that." Until finally I settled on bigender with no further details other than male and female at the same time. That's the only one I couldn't find evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that it's not me. When I had the revelation, it was simple. The only way I can say that I'm not bigender is to lie about it. Saying I'm not bigender made me feel the same way as lying to someone and hoping they don't fine out makes me feel. Cool, I know who I am now. Once I figured that out nothing else mattered. It doesn't matter what people called me or how I dress or whatever. Those don't define me. Sure, I have preferences...sure, I'm not gonna wear a dress or be called a man...but I do paint my toenails and will consider the ultimate pinnacle being comfortable with myself enough to go out in public with painted fingernails like it's nothing. It's a personal thing. I have short well-trimmed facial hair. I'm gonna keep that. It's me. I paint my toenails. I'm gonna continue doing that. It's me. I'm gonna wear a pair of non-fem woman's jeans because I love how they conform to my figure. It's me. I'm gonna kinda stop wearing men's shoes. Because it's not me. I'm also not gonna wear a dress because it's not me. My ex-wife hated dresses and complained the 2 times she wore one. I'm not gonna wear anything that's so specifically male that a female couldn't get away with it either. Fine, I'll wear a suit if I have to but I ain't gonna like it and excuse me if I'm a little irritated but damn I'm wearing it aren't I? Well, maybe I'll get comfortable with myself enough to wear an evening gown or something, who knows. Whatever, lol And that's how I am. None of that makes me any more or less bigender any more than wearing a pink shirt physically turns you in a female (assuming your AMAB) because it's how you identify, it's ho you are. The more "me" something is the more I don't care. It's me. The goal? To be comfortable in my own skin. To not feel like I'm having to hide anything or fit what people expect me to be. Sometimes I am what people want me to be...we all are at times...but, if I'm doing it because it's me, then fine, who cares. Like I said, I do have preferences, I HATE...angry face HATE, being called a man. I'm indifferent to being called a woman, but know I'm not that either. He/she, Him/her, who cares, call me any one of those. In face, if I'm both male AND female but neither a man OR a woman then what am I? The only label I'ver ever given myself in that regard that didn't make me feel like I'm being shoved into a cage is and seriously trigger my fight or flight response (emphasis the fight)...and I have no idea why...is queen. I'm a queen. It makes me feel powerful, like myself...with the strength to be me. Like a man saying he's a dude or a woman saying she's strong or whatever. But...as I said before, it doesn't make me any more or less bigender. It does make me feel more comfortable with myself but it does NOTHING for or against my gender. Gender identity first, pronouns second.

Long story short: try a label on and imagine yourself telling another person that's what you are. If you feel like you're lying, then it's not you. Eventually you'll find a label that you'll feel like you're lying if you say that it's not what you are. At that point, smile, and feel at home with yourself. Sure, you may have lingering doubts. But do what I do. Tell yourself you're not what you discovered you are and listen to all the voices in your head go "yeah, but..." and after enough of that and you'll say "shut up already" and that's when the journey begins. You'll know what you are, and at that point, it's time to learn what that means to you. Use comfort as guide. Sure, everything might be a bit uncomfortable at first, but let that be your guide. Some discomfort is good, it's how you grow as a person as a human being, but too much and you'll know it's not you. You'll eventually know where you want to be, but you may have to work to get there. Going from, for example, dressing as a man to suddenly wearing an evening gown in public is a big step. Work up to it, if that's where you want to get to. Every step forward...is a step forward. A chapter of a story is just that. You can't read them all at once without getting overwhelmed with too much at once. One step at a time. Define the steps for yourself...large or small...and take them when you're ready. If you're honest with yourself you'll know when that is. But do remember to stop and take a deep breath every now and again. And don't ever forget, this is about what you want, you need...YOU...NOT what others want for you or tell you you need. They have no idea. Only you can know that. And step one is to confront the fear of being brutally honest with yourself and make peace with it.

We're human. We get to live 90 years if we're lucky. Why would you want to do that as anyone but yourself? Why would you want to lie on your death bed feeling cheated? Regret nothing that you have control over. NOTHING.

And always remember: If you're not you, then who are you?

[Eridanus]

On 12/29/2019 at 12:24 PM, MintyLife88 said:

I'm honestly not completely sure, I just know I've always enjoyed cutting my hair really short and dressing in clothes from the boys section, and overall looking like a guy, and I've recently realized that when people call me sir, or they think I'm a guy when they meet me, I enjoy being called that, and recently it's been happening more and more with way I dress. But I still see myself as a female despite all that.

Hey, I know it's been a year since you posted this, but still! I'm sort of experiencing the same thing, so I, partially at the very least, get where you're coming from!

 

Figuring this out was such a pain, and honestly, I'm not even sure if I have even figured it out yet, but this is my experience. I've been going with the bigender label for a while now, and it doesn't really encompass all that I feel, but it makes the most sense to my identity. I know I'm a girl, but at the same time, I totally enjoy being a guy and being presented as masculine. Like you, I shop in the men's section, cut my hair short, and find it true when I'm called a guy. Like I said though, at the same time, it's also true that I'm a girl. If I had to visualize it, I'd say it's sort of like I'm a girl on the inside, but a boy on the outside, experiencing both of them at once, which is what bigender means.

 

If self-reflection doesn't work, because I know that it gives one killer of a headache, you might want to just try out labels and see if any seem to fit. I've considered demigirl, trigender, and just plain genderflux or genderfluid. I'm going with bigender now, but it's really a placeholder that's the most logical, and it might change. Just remember that it's totally up to you to decide, and go with the one that seems the most comfortable. I wish you luck!

 

-- Erid