The Impeachment

[Kasseb]

I'm curious where everyone stands on this issue. A part of me wants it to happen fully with the Senate, but I also fear this whole thing may have been a potential waste of time and money. What do you think? Will it pass the Senate?

[rainbowocollie]

I don't know where I stand on whether Trump should be impeached, but I think I'd probably rather have him in office than Pence.

[Alawyn-Aebt]

No, won't pass the Senate and Democrats will still loose the election.

 

But now history will say three people were impeached:

Andrew Johnson for stepping in the trap set for him by the House. They were angry at him because he dismantled the Freedman's Bureau. Legally dubious impeachment but morally correct.

Bill Clinton for failing to define sex and therefore lied. Legally sound but the event itself was not of any real importance to anyone besides Bill and Monica (and Hillary).

Donald Trump for effectively bribing foreigners to help him. Legally sound and corruption effects everyone, and it even raised security issues.

And that makes it worth it in my book. He might live without the consequences but the future will remember him differently and when they question why he was impeached and review the evidence they will come to the same realization as people mostly do about Andrew Johnson: Yes we should have removed him.

 

Also, any Republicans who say that effectively no matter the evidence they will vote for Trump... They are technically the jury. Could you imagine what would happen if it was a normal trial? Those jurors would be dismissed and the rest sequestered and the defendant (in this case Trump) would be investigated for jury tampering. The Senate shouldn't be any different since they are the jury.

[Sinking_In]

McConnell is Senate majority leader, and he is infamous for partisanship and playing political games, so if it goes before the Senate, Trump will be acquitted by the Senate.

Regardless of one's stance on the impeachment, it's always good to see the corruption and hypocrisy on full display on the part of our elected officials, and those who support them. Hopefully, folks will vote their conscience in 2020, rather than blindly along party lines, regardless of what party they support.

[RoseGoesToYale]

Honestly, the outcome is irrelevant. The proceedings must continue. It is a constitutional process, and to allow the process to be delayed or come to a halt due to fears of partisan defeat is only further proof that the American government is corrupt and not functioning as intended.

 

It may be corrupt anyway, but I'd like to be humored for a bit.

[Kasseb]

1 hour ago, Aebt-Ætheling said:

No, won't pass the Senate and Democrats will still loose the election.

 

But now history will say three people were impeached:

Andrew Johnson for stepping in the trap set for him by the House. They were angry at him because he dismantled the Freedman's Bureau. Legally dubious impeachment but morally correct.

Bill Clinton for failing to define sex and therefore lied. Legally sound but the event itself was not of any real importance to anyone besides Bill and Monica (and Hillary).

Donald Trump for effectively bribing foreigners to help him. Legally sound and corruption effects everyone, and it even raised security issues.

And that makes it worth it in my book. He might live without the consequences but the future will remember him differently and when they question why he was impeached and review the evidence they will come to the same realization as people mostly do about Andrew Johnson: Yes we should have removed him.

 

Also, any Republicans who say that effectively no matter the evidence they will vote for Trump... They are technically the jury. Could you imagine what would happen if it was a normal trial? Those jurors would be dismissed and the rest sequestered and the defendant (in this case Trump) would be investigated for jury tampering. The Senate shouldn't be any different since they are the jury.

Yea, that's not much of a trail of one's own peers. I'm curious how things will turn out. 

[Ringmaster04]

We're supposed to believe that our democracy -- the ability of citizens to vote and for their votes to be accurately counted and their will represented -- is the most sacred institution we have in the US. We've set rules to prevent that institution from corruption both from other countries and from within. The evidence that the president was engaged in such corruption...really in both of his elections...is more than sufficient to warrant a full trial, and likely compelling enough to warrant a conviction if this were a normal criminal proceeding. As a Democrat, I acknowledge the risk that this impeachment could lead to a galvanized Republican turnout in 2020 and the inability to secure a conviction in the Senate could suppress Democratic turnout...but to some extent, you have to look past that and stand up for what's right if you believe the evidence that's been presented. 

[Kasseb]

1 hour ago, Ringmaster04 said:

We're supposed to believe that our democracy -- the ability of citizens to vote and for their votes to be accurately counted and their will represented -- is the most sacred institution we have in the US. We've set rules to prevent that institution from corruption both from other countries and from within. The evidence that the president was engaged in such corruption...really in both of his elections...is more than sufficient to warrant a full trial, and likely compelling enough to warrant a conviction if this were a normal criminal proceeding. As a Democrat, I acknowledge the risk that this impeachment could lead to a galvanized Republican turnout in 2020 and the inability to secure a conviction in the Senate could suppress Democratic turnout...but to some extent, you have to look past that and stand up for what's right if you believe the evidence that's been presented. 

Would you say it would have been best to wait for a re-election when the house may be controlled by the Dems?

[Gloomy]

Meh, I think all politicians should be impeached, but this is certainly a good start.

[Ringmaster04]

42 minutes ago, Autumn McJavabean said:

Would you say it would have been best to wait for a re-election when the house may be controlled by the Dems?

I don't think you can wait until the election -- in which the president is known to be cheating -- to accuse him of cheating in an election. You have to be able to show the people, not just today, but decades from now, that when we saw the integrity of an election was in jeopardy, we acted to try to maintain that integrity.

 

Edit: 

 

Also, I don't see any circumstance where the Republican president is reelected but the Democrats pick up seats in either chamber of Congress.

[Kasseb]

2 minutes ago, Ringmaster04 said:

I don't think you can wait until the election -- in which the president is known to be cheating -- to accuse him of cheating in an election. You have to be able to show the people, not just today, but decades from now, that when we saw the integrity of an election was in jeopardy, we acted to try to maintain that integrity.

 

Edit: 

 

Also, I don't see any circumstance where the Republican president is reelected but the Democrats pick up seats in either chamber of Congress.

Well, in all fairness, I'm not too worried about the cheating, if any of it is real, because while we decry cheating is bad no one speaks out against the cheating we cause in many elections throughout the world. Also, there is the DNC cheating. But because they're their own thing it's allowed. 

[Skycaptain]

Yes impeachment is the correct action. Even if partt politics mean that he'll be acquitted due process has been followed. 

Look at it this way, if this was a court of law, the senate hearing effectively means that there is a case to answer, so he'd most probably be found guilty. 

[R_1]

5 hours ago, Sleighcaptain said:

so he'd most probably be found guilty. 

I wish...

 

But, it's dominated by Republicans, so...

[Calligraphette_Coe]

6 hours ago, Sleighcaptain said:

Yes impeachment is the correct action. Even if partt politics mean that he'll be acquitted due process has been followed. 

Look at it this way, if this was a court of law, the senate hearing effectively means that there is a case to answer, so he'd most probably be found guilty. 

Some say this Impeachment is a game of high stakes political chess. If that's true, I find it kinda funny that Mitch McConnell is in the role of The Orange Queen.

[Kasseb]

40 minutes ago, Calligraphette_Coe said:

Some say this Impeachment is a game of high stakes political chess. If that's true, I find it kinda funny that Mitch McConnell is in the role of The Orange Queen.

It really is. Lol