me too?

[thyristor]

This is your thread for venting and witnessing about those moments where you feel sexually harrassed but somehow question your own feeling.

 

Here is a link to a post within this thread, that clarifies, why there is a questionmark in the title.

 

Here's my first experience:

 

During train driver school, I went for my first week of practical learning and took lots of photos of the locos, waggons, switches and so on. I asked one of the staff at the site to take a picture of me and he asked me to email it to him later, along with the other photos I took. Thought nothing by it, it's cool to have some photos of your workplace. Can't remember how, but we exchanged ICQ-numbers and on ICQ he asked whether I had a photo of me with my hair let out. I was 27, he was around 55, no way this was normal flirting. I cut the contact with him. I strongly felt that I should report him to someone, his boss or my teacher or I don't know. But at the same time, it's a big thing to accuse someone of sexual harrassement, and in the light of that, it's kind of weak to prove it by saying the person asked for a particular photograph. Now it's cold case, but I should probably really told his boss about it. * feeling stupid * What if he harrassed any other ongoing train drivers, or worse, even younger women/girls in his private life?? 😨

 

[thyristor]

Okay, here goes my next one. This is a little explicit, so

 

*** sensitive persons be warned! ***

 

On my way to a huge climate demonstration, I had my demo-cap on and a small signboard hanging on a rope around my neck. (to let you off the hook: no violence to come). A young man came up towards me and asked me where I was going. It turned out, he was a refugee from a war raged area, and called himself a gipsyboy, now living in a small village and studying IT at distance. He was in Stockholm for the day, just trying to explore the town, had no plan what to do, except meet some friends he only knew online at five pm. He joined me and we went for the demo, we had a good talk. He said he was trying to find somewhere to stay the night, hi sort of reckoned that he could sleep over at some of his new friends' house, but wasn't sure. The way we talked, I figured and also said that I guessed he'd probably be fine sleeping at the station as well. I didn't really reflect on it, since I live over an hour by train away from Stockholm.

 

But suddenly he asked if He could sleep at my house if none of his friends would accept him over. I'm a very open person, always willing to help, so I said, well, it's over an hour away, but if all else fails, he could come. I never saw the serious possibility that out of several friends (assumingly from Stockholm), none would be able to take him, and the possibility that he'd prefer the long ride over just staying out on a friday night until the morning comes. He said, he wanted to be in Stockholm as early in the morning as possible. His home village was about 2hrs away, so it's not that he can't go there any time again.

 

Then it got more awkward: he suddenly told me that he is a very sexual person and he wanted to know if I am the kind that is up to a one night stand. I was determined in my mind not to go along with him that night, he was not my type, looked kind of okay but not gorgeus enough to go all in from the start. Actually I'll probably never go with a one night stand, but the way things were in my life at that moment, I was at least thinking about these things. So we had a short open conversation about that. I made it clear though, not him, not tonight. Then he asked me again if I'd still be okay with him just sleeping over at my house. Obviously I don't want to be the one who decides he spend the night outside rather than in a warm livingroom, so, again I said, if all else fails, okay, but be sure to try other options first.

 

He finally went to see his friends, and I went home. Later he texted: "I'm afraid I'm gonna have to sleep at your place." But by that time I decided no, and I texted him the departure time for the latest connection to his village, telling him, I just can't see what the big difference was between going one hour back and forth and just going from his own place instead. He accepted it, in that he wrote that if it makes me feel very uncomfortable, then of course we just skip it.

 

In every way he was polite, and I don't think he would have enforced himself on me in any way, but I can't help but feel that I had to fight the pressure he put on me. Some people seem to think that the enforcing thing is the only thing that worries the other person. To me it's also about seducing. Had he come to my house, we'd have sat on the couch and soon enough made out, cos my body would have caved in. And in the morning I'd have felt regrets. Caving in for a bit of chocolate now and again is also causing me regrets, but with sexual acts it's a whole 'nother dimension. Why do some people have to nag, when it's obvious they already feel the need to reassure me that they won't force me. That means, they already know, I'd rather not have them. ^^

[thyristor]

Oh, another one. From my teenaged days.

 

I went by nighttrain, a six-seat compartment with only me, 16, and some guy, possibly in his mid twenties. We had a good chat before we turned out the lights to sleep. The seats could be lowerd, and one would typically lay their feet on the opposite seat. I had booked a seat by the window, his was by the corridor, one pair of seats between us. He asked if it was okay if he took the seat next to me so that, if any more passengers joined our compartment during the night, they need not climb over his feet.

 

I'm a routined nighttrain passenger, so I thought this was a good idea.

 

Actually it was him who wanted to turn off the lights and sleep, I seldom truely slept during night train journeys at that age, I can gaze out into the pitch black night waiting for tiny lights to pass by at the horizon. So I did.

 

Suddenly I heard a strange sound, and as I checked, he was rubbing the cloth of my dress between his fingers.

 

I had an empty bottle of coke next to me which I took and slammed it on his head. He jumped up, took his things and moved to the next compartment.

 

I always wanted to believe that he didn't really understand my age. But firstly, I'm pretty sure he must have known from when we chatted that I was very young and still going to school. Second, what difference would it have made? touching peoples' skirt is not okay, regardless of age. I don't know of any signs I could have given him during our previous conversation, how ever could he have made up that I wanted to be seduced?

[thyristor]

Next one, even younger. Oh my, I got several more....

 

This is age 14. I still lived with my mom back in Munich. I was in town, listening to this guitarplayer, turned out he was a student from Ireland, we started talking, I told him about me being a fan of Roxette and Sweden. He told me he shared a flat with two guys, one of them Swedish. I immediately wanted to get in touch with the Swedish guy since I constantly was looking for pen pals or other Swedish contacts in order to learn the language. But he wouldn't be home that evening. There was an international handball game (Sweden against can't remember) that I wanted to watch on TV and somehow I asked him to come along to my house (20 minutes commutertrain). I think he wanted me to come to his appartment, but since the Swede wasn't there I felt it was kind of irrational. So we went to my home, sat on the bed, playing guitar, each playing some of the stuff we'd written ourselves, and suddenly he came closer face to face with me and said something about "one kiss for one song". I didn't understand, "What??" - "Two kisses for two songs", and if I remember correctly he would lean slightly over me. I said "No kisses for no songs" and pushed him away and went to the living room to turn on the tv for the handball game.

 

Again, I'd like to think that he didn't really grasp my age. This time I think he could actually have guessed I was 16 or so.

 

Still... why can't one invite people home to have good chat and play the guitar? Why is there always that intent of sexual acting?

 

So, I gotta be off to work soon, but as time goes by I'd like to share more, so this next line is just a reminder to myself

Spoiler

says no means yes, Egypt only those two to go I think...

 

[Phantasmal Fingers]

2 hours ago, elisabeth_II said:

he asked whether I had a photo of me with my hair let out.

But you've posted one here - it's your avatar! 😵

 

What a tease! 😮 🤣

[Whore*of*Mensa]

I had a similar thing with a supervisor when I was a student- he had to formally observe my practice and sign me off as competent. I texted him to ask if he could complete my observation and he texted back 

 

‘Can I observe you in the shower?’

 

I was 33, he was mid-50s, the power imbalance was more about the fact that he could pass or fail me.

 

I just ignored it, but I kept the text in case I did have any more problems with him. I passed in the end, and he never did anything more than suggestive comments/texts. But it was a stressful placement.

[wyrdwyrm]

Had a friend of my mother ask if I could help him with some technical writing for a fee (as English isn't his first language). The first couple of sessions went fine, then he blindsided me with a romantic proposition for 'next time'. (I was around 30, he was near 60.) I got him out of my house & said that these sessions were over completely. He kept calling me - he ended up tracking down the phone number and calling me at work - but eventually gave up when I refused to talk to him. I was super freaked out by the whole thing (I was doing a job, he was freaking MARRIED WITH KIDS, and there was nothing attractive about him) - luckily I had some coworkers willing to field the calls for me until he stopped.

I'm still pissed about it.

[Custard Cream]

1 hour ago, wyrdwyrm said:

Had a friend of my mother ask if I could help him with some technical writing for a fee (as English isn't his first language). The first couple of sessions went fine, then he blindsided me with a romantic proposition for 'next time'. (I was around 30, he was near 60.) I got him out of my house & said that these sessions were over completely. He kept calling me - he ended up tracking down the phone number and calling me at work - but eventually gave up when I refused to talk to him. I was super freaked out by the whole thing (I was doing a job, he was freaking MARRIED WITH KIDS, and there was nothing attractive about him) - luckily I had some coworkers willing to field the calls for me until he stopped.

I'm still pissed about it.

I'm not surprised.

[frostboot]

I love this idea! It's definitely a needed topic. 

The first thing to cross my mind is my experience growing up on the internet. Sexual harassment from gross straight men preying on kids was such a common thing that I became very numb to it. It was just part of life, like global warming! It's there, it has been for a long time and you personally can't do anything about it. 

I technically knew even back then that how I was treated was wrong, but it's strange to deal with when growing up in a society where it's the norm. Like there's this thing that happens to most people I know, and it's not okay, but everyone can't be a victim, right? I can't be a victim. In a culture where underage girls groan about receiving dickpics with an eyeroll like it's the same as their mother asking them to do a chore, it can be a very difficult thing to understand and accept how messed up that is. 

[thyristor]

4 hours ago, Moderne Jazzhanden said:

But you've posted one here - it's your avatar! 😵

 

What a tease! 😮 🤣

That's not me!! It's Empress Elisabeth of Austria-Hungary! Gotta make that clear somehow in my profile.... I don't nearly have as much or long hair as she.......

[thyristor]

1 hour ago, frostboot said:

 In a culture where underage girls groan about receiving dickpics with an eyeroll like it's the same as their mother asking them to do a chore, it can be a very difficult thing to understand and accept how messed up that is. 

Yeah, as mentioned in the thread about womens' clothing also, how ever can society develope a fashion of thin blouses that deliberately show off your bra? It's so wicked. Somehow, being sexually released from religious constraints has gotten people to think that sexuality should be everywhere and who ever disagrees is conservative, boring and restraining folks. How can we put this right again? 🤔

[Lord Jade Cross]

I know they dont qualify but this thread reminded of have 2 instances, one more disturbing than the other, where people came on to me.

 

The first one was fairly recent when I went to buy bird food. Its usually bought at the same place so I more or less knew the owner as a passerby aquaintance. Except this time a new dude was handling the register. After taking the packs and going to pay, the guy asked me if I had just gotten out of school. Now people have always been shocked by my age as many confuse me for someone much younger but the shop is nearby a school and you see kids walking to amd from there, so its not unusual o think some might pass through on their way.

 

The dude was rather insistent aboit how young I looked and started asking questions like where I was going and such thag it immeduately set off an alarm. I paid for the food and went on my way, with the dude still following me as I went to my car.

 

 

[Sinking_In]

I understand that feeling of regret when considering other victims for one's failure to report an incident. Someone very close to me was raped by someone who takes in foreign students as a "host family". She never reported it (out of shame, guilt, fear, etc.), she just got away from the situation as quickly as possibly for her own safety. I get it, but I also know a predator like that will never stop unless stopped by authorities and a brave soul willing to stand up and hold them accountable. DEFINITELY easier said than done, but it's what one must consider when surviving such horrible crimes.

[Whore*of*Mensa]

7 minutes ago, Sinking_In said:

I understand that feeling of regret when considering other victims for one's failure to report an incident. Someone very close to me was raped by someone who takes in foreign students as a "host family". She never reported it (out of shame, guilt, fear, etc.), she just got away from the situation as quickly as possibly for her own safety. I get it, but I also know a predator like that will never stop unless stopped by authorities and a brave soul willing to stand up and hold them accountable. DEFINITELY easier said than done, but it's what one must consider when surviving such horrible crimes.

That’s awful. But she shouldn’t feel guilty.

 

You’d be very naive to think the authorities will stop it. Have you seen the conviction rates? Did you hear the case of John Worboys?

[frostboot]

18 minutes ago, elisabeth_II said:

Yeah, as mentioned in the thread about womens' clothing also, how ever can society develope a fashion of thin blouses that deliberately show off your bra? It's so wicked. Somehow, being sexually released from religious constraints has gotten people to think that sexuality should be everywhere and who ever disagrees is conservative, boring and restraining folks. How can we put this right again? 🤔

I feel like that's a different question, and a much more difficult one. I consider myself a sex-positive feminist and feel very strongly that people should be allowed to do and wear whatever they want. That said, however, there's definitely societal pressure telling us what we should want that pushes us towards making choices like wearing tons of makeup and see-through blouses. Women (and other people, but mostly it's women) should be allowed to wear clothes that makes them feel attractive, but let's be real, the patriarchy is entirely dictating what it is that makes them attractive. It's also dictating that your worth is based on your appearance, so unless you conform to these progressively more sexualized norms in clothing and such you're gonna end up suffering. So I definitely see your point, since that type of clothing can be seen as a result of a society where women are reduced to objects and that younger and younger girls are now also wearing short shorts and crop tops. However, I don't think that showing off your bra should inherently be seen as something sexual, nor that wanting to be seen as sexy should be seen as something bad. The problem is the men sexualizing literally everything and sexually harassing everything that moves, not the people just adapting to the society they live in. 

[frostboot]

25 minutes ago, Jade Cross said:

I know they dont qualify but this thread reminded of have 2 instances, one more disturbing than the other, where people came on to me.

 

The first one was fairly recent when I went to buy bird food. Its usually bought at the same place so I more or less knew the owner as a passerby aquaintance. Except this time a new dude was handling the register. After taking the packs and going to pay, the guy asked me if I had just gotten out of school. Now people have always been shocked by my age as many confuse me for someone much younger but the shop is nearby a school and you see kids walking to amd from there, so its not unusual o think some might pass through on their way.

 

The dude was rather insistent aboit how young I looked and started asking questions like where I was going and such thag it immeduately set off an alarm. I paid for the food and went on my way, with the dude still following me as I went to my car.

 

 

Why would that not "qualify"? That sounds horrifying, I'm glad you got out of there okay! 

[Sinking_In]

2 minutes ago, More*of*Wenceslas said:

You’d be very naive to think the authorities will stop it.

Believe me, I know how abysmal the numbers are, and how it's discouraging to rape victims. I've personally known a shockingly high number of women who were raped, and NONE of them ever reported it. I'm certain that if you take the number of reported rapes, you have to times it by thousands to get to the number of unreported rapes. And those who stand up for rapists and attack the victims' characters make me sick to my core.

[Lord Jade Cross]

The second instance was when I was younger.

 

I didnt have a car until a very  late age (compared to kids who get theors from mom and dad as a sweet 16 birthday present) so I used to walk everywhere, school, grocery shopping, going to town, you name it. Having done that for years, it was not uncommon for people to offer me a lift (some even called me insane for walking everywhere) from time to time.

 

One day, while heading off to work, this dude in his mid to late 50's pulls over and asks me for directions saying he wasnt from around the area. I tell him which way to go and he then immediately asks me where Im heading. Didnt think much of it, I tell him Im on my way to work and he offers me a lift since the location he was looking for was where I worked (or so he claimed) It was a rainy day and it looked like it was about to break any moment, so I decided why not? and I get in his car. 

 

Three minutes in, the dude gets all creepy talking about his love escapades and then grabs and  starts sqeezing my hand. This set off a major alarm and while freaking out, I watch his movements in case I needef to swing him, even if I caused and accident.

 

When we were close enough, I tell him that this was the place and get off his car. As soon as I shut the door, the guy does a U turn screeching tires and speeds off. 

 

Needless to say I no longer accept offered rides. 

[Whore*of*Mensa]

54 minutes ago, Sinking_In said:

Believe me, I know how abysmal the numbers are, and how it's discouraging to rape victims. I've personally known a shockingly high number of women who were raped, and NONE of them ever reported it. I'm certain that if you take the number of reported rapes, you have to times it by thousands to get to the number of unreported rapes. And those who stand up for rapists and attack the victims' characters make me sick to my core.

The victim’s character is always attacked in court and convictions are very rare. That’s why I think it’s important never to imply that it’s the victim’s responsibility to protect other victims by going to the police.

 

Its everyone’s responsibility to tackle rape culture  

[Sinking_In]

@More*of*Wenceslas I don't disagree.

[Whore*of*Mensa]

2 hours ago, frostboot said:

However, I don't think that showing off your bra should inherently be seen as something sexual, nor that wanting to be seen as sexy should be seen as something bad. The problem is the men sexualizing literally everything and sexually harassing everything that moves, not the people just adapting to the society they live in. 

I don't know if this is the case everywhere, but in the UK girls have to wear white shirts for school uniform and it is pure misery. I remember assemblies where we had to take off our jumpers 'to look smart' and every single boy would be trying to undo the bra strap of any girl unfortunate enough to need to wear a bra at that age. Why can't they let school girls cover up if they want to? And don't you think it's massively creepy that school girls are so sexualised, everyone knows it, and they still make them wear white shirts and skirts?

[frostboot]

10 minutes ago, More*of*Wenceslas said:

I don't know if this is the case everywhere, but in the UK girls have to wear white shirts for school uniform and it is pure misery. I remember assemblies where we had to take off our jumpers 'to look smart' and every single boy would be trying to undo the bra strap of any girl unfortunate enough to need to wear a bra at that age. Why can't they let school girls cover up if they want to? And don't you think it's massively creepy that school girls are so sexualised, everyone knows it, and they still make them wear white shirts and skirts?

I agree, that's disgusting. The white school uniforms aren't global, but it seems like the teachers' inaction definitely is! As you say, school girls are so sexualised but it's not something that is spoken enough about, or taken seriously by the adults. In school I didn't really see or hear teachers step in and put their foot down when boys were either harassing girls or talking about them in an objectifying way. Forcing girls to take their jumpers off is ridiculous on its own, and continuing to do so even when they know what it leads to is just another example of how normalized sexual harassment is. Boys will be boys, if you've got boobs you just have to deal with it.
I think the most messed up part is that boys often seem to harass as a way of feeling powerful, more than anything else. I remember in high school I got groped by a guy, except I was wearing a binder and my chest was entirely flat, so there was nothing there to grab. He seemed completely unfazed by this fact and was just as happy anyway that he had pissed me off. It's all some sort of sick way to assert dominance. 

[Whore*of*Mensa]

33 minutes ago, frostboot said:

I agree, that's disgusting. The white school uniforms aren't global, but it seems like the teachers' inaction definitely is! As you say, school girls are so sexualised but it's not something that is spoken enough about, or taken seriously by the adults. In school I didn't really see or hear teachers step in and put their foot down when boys were either harassing girls or talking about them in an objectifying way. Forcing girls to take their jumpers off is ridiculous on its own, and continuing to do so even when they know what it leads to is just another example of how normalized sexual harassment is. Boys will be boys, if you've got boobs you just have to deal with it.
I think the most messed up part is that boys often seem to harass as a way of feeling powerful, more than anything else. I remember in high school I got groped by a guy, except I was wearing a binder and my chest was entirely flat, so there was nothing there to grab. He seemed completely unfazed by this fact and was just as happy anyway that he had pissed me off. It's all some sort of sick way to assert dominance. 

Yep, actually I remember a snowball fight at school (was always boys against girls) where I ended up on my own and cornered by a group of lads, and they pushed me over on the floor and they were literally just groping me, stuffing snow down my top and up my skirt and laughing...And I was really upset and angry, shaking I remember. It was like a power thing, well made me feel powerless anyway. 

 

We weren't even allowed tights in those days. I haven't worn a skirt since school. Ever. Maybe occasionally a dress with thick tights and boots, but that's it. 

[thyristor]

3 hours ago, frostboot said:

I feel like that's a different question, and a much more difficult one. [...] I don't think that showing off your bra should inherently be seen as something sexual,

Yes, it also is a different question. I might open a thread about that anytime soon 😃 (Cos I don't feel like sexual is just inside ones bra and panties)

[thyristor]

4 hours ago, Jade Cross said:

I know they dont qualify

I think both did really qualify here. Especially the first one (about the new guy in the store) is exactly the kind, where we might try to hide our feelings, cos why would we accuse someone for just asking us questions, yet, our instincts are intact, we feel creepyness, that's to say: it affects us in a negative way; and that's exactly why it is harrassement (in my opinion; but in legal terms I don't know) and should be treated that way and we should never be afraid of voicing out that this kind of things makes us freak out.

[frostboot]

15 hours ago, elisabeth_II said:

Yes, it also is a different question. I might open a thread about that anytime soon 😃 (Cos I don't feel like sexual is just inside ones bra and panties)

Ooh, please do! I have a lot to say, heh. 
 

16 hours ago, More*of*Wenceslas said:

I haven't worn a skirt since school. Ever. Maybe occasionally a dress with thick tights and boots, but that's it. 

That's the worst thing, isn't it? What you carry with you afterwards. Even less serious stuff can really mess with your world view, your relationship to sexuality and men, your behavior, etc. I sometimes wonder how different I would be as a person if I had been raised in a world were stuff like that simply doesn't happen. 

[Whore*of*Mensa]

30 minutes ago, frostboot said:

Ooh, please do! I have a lot to say, heh. 
 

That's the worst thing, isn't it? What you carry with you afterwards. Even less serious stuff can really mess with your world view, your relationship to sexuality and men, your behavior, etc. I sometimes wonder how different I would be as a person if I had been raised in a world were stuff like that simply doesn't happen. 

Yes exactly!

 

i don’t think about this much, but the fact is that -still - if I wear a skirt I get a feeling that someone is going to be trying to look up it or put their hand up it. 

 

And it it has not got much better. When my daughter was about 7 she started refusing to wear a skirt (at least she could wear trousers) and it turned out there were 3 boys who kept trying to lift up her skirt. I went and spoke to the headmaster who said to me and my daughter that they did it because they like her!!!!!

 

Its just constant low level harassment from the age of about 5...No wonder some women don’t even consciously see it (boys will be boys etc), and nobody teaches them (boys) any different..

[thyristor]

5 hours ago, More*of*Wenceslas said:

the headmaster who said to me and my daughter that they did it because they like her!!!!!

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?? When you think it can't get any worse, someone tells you that in quite recent times there existed such a thing as a headmaster who is totally out of their mind yet entrusted with the shaping of the lives of 7-year olds..... ^^

 

I know at some point I might get ennerving to other people when constantly going on about my world peace stuff, but a dozen times each day I can't help but think that we all should stop doing what ever we do right now and just sit down at a drawing table and start over with this concept called homo sapiens.... How could we stop wars between nations if we have headmasters that have been boys who will be boys.... (just my guess that the headmaster was male)

[Whore*of*Mensa]

1 hour ago, elisabeth_II said:

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?? When you think it can't get any worse, someone tells you that in quite recent times there existed such a thing as a headmaster who is totally out of their mind yet entrusted with the shaping of the lives of 7-year olds..... ^^

 

I know at some point I might get ennerving to other people when constantly going on about my world peace stuff, but a dozen times each day I can't help but think that we all should stop doing what ever we do right now and just sit down at a drawing table and start over with this concept called homo sapiens.... How could we stop wars between nations if we have headmasters that have been boys who will be boys.... (just my guess that the headmaster was male)

Yes, the headmaster was male. He made us feel as if we were picking on the boys by complaining. 

But it was 3 against one! And why should she have to put up with it 'because they like her?!' 

 

And - this is what confuses me - how are we supposed to see sex/sexuality as a love language when men use it to bully us?

 

(Yes, I agree, we need to start again, rebuild this world from right from the start). 

[thyristor]

2 minutes ago, Arodash said:

that I cant be assaulted or have been raped

That's so sad to hear. I'm not sure if you are up to reading my comment below...

 

Spoiler

I recently listened to a podcast on very young males who get caught in the habit of selling their bodies to men. They don't want it, they get lured into it through fake profiles on the internet, but they are somehow mentally vulnerable and get sort of addicted to destroying themselves in that way. The saddest part is, that it happens in nice little Sweden, police can't do much about it. Somehow, we are all blind and can't reviele all those assholes who apparently are all around us, disguised as 'normal' people.