Fed Up

[Star Lady]

I despise when people do not fully understand something or someone and just decide to place a label on them. I believe everyone has had moments, days, months, even years of being "asexual". I only use my situation as an example to illustrate my point. My ex husband gave me a "diagnosis" of being asexual. His reasoning was I didn't want to have sex with him several times a week because I had no desire for sex. Well, let's see why didn't I want to have sex with him. Hmmm.... let's talk about things he would do versus I would do on a daily basis. I have a quite a successful career, caring for others with a tremendous amount of responsibility. I commuted to and from that job a total of 4 hours round trip with our 3 year old child that would attend daycare not far from where I worked. When I would get home my second full time job started being Mommy to her,  I cooked, cleaned, make sure the bills were payed, remembered doctor and dentist appointments, purchased birthday gifts for both sides of the family, made sure that if we did have any services that needed to be performed in the house such as landscaping, snow removal that they were earning their money. I can go on and on with what I would do. At the end of the day, I would be physically, mentally, and emotionally drained and received no cooperation from him. He would be on the computer or playing video games.  Now, let's see what he would do. He went to a job that was stressful and washed out his oatmeal bowl every morning. That's about it. He refused to go for counseling claiming that if his job would ever hear he went to a psychologist he would be fired. My point is, I don't care what sexual orientation you are or what gender, if you have any self respect, independent, logical, rational, and had a partner that only knew the pronouns "I" and "me" instead of "we" and "us" you would be "asexual" also. It is the resentment of not being treated fairly or kindly that turns you off to sex with them and unfortunately it can scar you for life. Because any relationship afterwards that starts to show signs of the one you left and was completely devastated from you would run FAR away. I agree that there are those that know from the beginning that they are asexual but I also believe that the scars of past relationships and being in relationships that are similar can also lead to asexuality. If there is such a word. 

[Grimalkin]

Did you ever read the comic You Should've Asked? It talks about all the mental labor that women frequently do in their relationships. It's eye-opening, and I think everyone should read it.

 

Mind you, your ex sounds like he was just a jerk beyond the general ingrained lack of mental labor. I'm glad you split and I hope you're in a better place. 

[Sarah-Sylvia]

Hi.
Hope you managed to vent a little.

There's definitely things like that, and even trauma, that can affect someone's sexuality. Some might still be sexual if they weren't affected, but quite a few know that they'd be asexual anyway.
In whatever case, you need to take care of yourself, and not let the pressure get to you, as much as you can. You don't deserve to feel underappreciated or expected to be able to perform, especially if you're less sexual. It would be really good if he could've been understanding. And couples counseling would not affect his job, that's be weird. But anyway..

Try not to let it taint your feeling of what relationships can be at their best. Unfortunately it's true that it can affect someone, just like a broken heart can really hurt and leave something there, but i've seen plenty of people heal and open back their hearts. That or just making the best of what they do have. Learning to respect yourself regardless of how someone or even a partner is. Not always easy, but worth looking at.

[thylacine]

Star Lady,

 

I sympathize.

 

First, asexuality is a real thing, okay?  Many people are genuinely asexual, from birth, and stay that way.

 

But...  I was a paralegal for 15 years (until I got laid off and decided it was time for a change, anyway!) and I did a lot of divorce work.  You are not alone.  Your story is quite a lot like  other people's.  You call the man your "ex" husband.  It sounds like you're better off without him.  Good luck.  I hope life gets better.

[Star Lady]

I thank everyone for your kind, intelligent, very comforting words. Yes, I have had several relationships after my divorce and you know the old saying, “ the faces change but the situation remains the same.” I must break the cycle but that is for me to work on. 

[anisotrophic]

7 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

Did you ever read the comic You Should've Asked? It talks about all the mental labor that women frequently do in their relationships. It's eye-opening, and I think everyone should read it.

God, I love that thing. Sunk deep into a relationship, one can't easily complain about this form of sexist burden the way one can complain about sexism in the workplace, dating, etc.

 

@Star Lady I don't have much advice. Have a sex change? (Just kidding, I wouldn't attribute much progress to this, just years of nagging and arguments.) Asexuality is real but I think it's (far?) more typical that bedroom troubles are an indicator of a relationship hitting the rocks – rather than the reason behind it. I think it's totally fair to observe a bad relationship can seriously damage one's experience of sexuality.

I mean, I feel like sometimes women come in here saying they must be ace, but then go on to describe the most god-awful male partner, and I think to myself "well hell, I wouldn't want to sleep with that either". (Or at least I wouldn't have, when I was more female than I am now. Sex used to be more vulnerable, now it's more aggressive. I think @Sarah-Sylvia may have observed a reverse direction for herself. Hormones are wild things.)

First step is knowing you deserve better! I hope you get there.

[Sarah-Sylvia]

14 minutes ago, anisotrophic said:

God, I love that thing. Sunk deep into a relationship, one can't easily complain about this form of sexist burden the way one can complain about sexism in the workplace, dating, etc.

 

@Star Lady I don't have much advice. Have a sex change? (Just kidding, I wouldn't attribute much progress to this, just years of nagging and arguments.) Asexuality is real but I think it's (far?) more typical that bedroom troubles are an indicator of a relationship hitting the rocks – rather than the reason behind it. I think it's totally fair to observe a bad relationship can seriously damage one's experience of sexuality.

I mean, I feel like sometimes women come in here saying they must be ace, but then go on to describe the most god-awful male partner, and I think to myself "well hell, I wouldn't want to sleep with that either". (Or at least I wouldn't have, when I was more female than I am now. Sex used to be more vulnerable, now it's more aggressive. I think @Sarah-Sylvia may have observed a reverse direction for herself. Hormones are wild things.)

First step is knowing you deserve better! I hope you get there.

Not sure how that got brought up :D, but yeah, when I was sexual, it certainly was more aggressive in a way, wanting to get to the good feelings right away, striving to get to the orgasm too. Now that's really not important. I want to enjoy and savor the sensuality and affection, and if it bridges into sex, it has to keep being loving, tender, and sensual. If it gets too quick or there's too much riding on the sex itself, it can be a turn off. I would figure being with a partner where I feel tense or not as much love would have a similar effect. I'm sure hormones helped in shifting my sexuality, though I was starting to lean towards more romance even before I started. ❤️

[anisotrophic]

50 minutes ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

I'm sure hormones helped in shifting my sexuality, though I was starting to lean towards more romance even before I started. ❤️

That's fair, I think I was shifting already too...

 

It was just my own reflection; when I was more female, sex was a lot more vulnerable &  I'm pretty sure someone treating me poorly would've been a huge libido killer.

 

I'm not sure if that's how I am now. I think I'd rather not test it, since that implies me being treated poorly!

[Philip027]

With regard to that comic material in particular, I can say that most of the time I don't get involved with things unless asked for help is because most of the time when I actually try to insert myself, I seemed to just get in the way and make things harder.  At least that sure seemed to be what my mom seemed to think whenever I tried to do most household chores in a way that seemed to end up as not up to her lofty standards...

 

After enough times of hearing things like "never mind; I'll do it faster/better myself" (or even if they're polite enough not to say it out loud but it's still clearly written on their face) you tend to stop volunteering and just keep out of the way unless asked.

 

I really don't think that's a sort of thing that can just happen to guys, either, so that makes it rather difficult for me to see eye to eye with the comic.

[anisotrophic]

Oh, that comic is really real for a ton of cishet women who've had kids. It can feel like a "hey I thought we were equals, wtf" bait and switch; it's reinforced by social pressure & assumptions on women for parenting (problem at school? Call the mom!). I remind my spouse of it when he starts slacking. He's gotten a lot better over the years, keeps track of the doctor appointments now (for example). People can change, not overnight. And I do have my own bad points to work on.

[Whore*of*Mensa]

I agree with the OP - I’d be very suspicious of any man with young children who calls their wife ‘asexual’ - maybe they are, but it’s always easier to slap a label on someone rather than look at your own contributing behaviour

 

Most women are just exhausted from the demands of children - they’re a full time job, not a part time hobby for a woman! It’s difficult for men to understand as they’re rarely exposed to the level of responsibility that women are. I’ve observed that they often improve by the second child (if there is a second child rather than a divorce - it seems to go one way or another. After many arguments the problem is either understood and resolved - or not)I. Ive had these discussions with so many women over the years.

 

I really hope things improve and I don’t one day end up having it with my daughter. Boys should be taught childcare in school imo

 

@Star Lady I’ve had bad experiences too and I’m not keen on taking any more chances. I admire you for having the courage to try and I hope you find a better experience soon. I know there are good men out there.

[Whore*of*Mensa]

@Philip027

[ryn2]

I’m not trying to imply this applies to all

men but in my previous job - where there were many men and few women - some of the guys actually bragged about what they had done to guarantee permanent chore exemptions (oops, one red sock in the whites!).

[Whore*of*Mensa]

1 hour ago, ryn2 said:

I’m not trying to imply this applies to all

men but in my previous job - where there were many men and few women - some of the guys actually bragged about what they had done to guarantee permanent chore exemptions (oops, one red sock in the whites!).

I can so imagine that. Thing is, they think they’re being so clever while basically shooting  themselves in the foot. You put your wife in the role of your mother, you change the dynamic of the relationship. They might not fancy you any more.

[Philip027]

Quote

I’m not accusing you of this as you were just a child from the sound of it, but doing things badly is a time-honoured tactic to get out of chores.

It hasn't really gotten much better for me in adulthood.

 

Similarly, I'm not going to be accusing you of this, but I've found a lot of people are really bad at understanding that just because someone is "smart" it doesn't mean they can always pick things up instantly and do them well.

[ryn2]

6 hours ago, More*of*Wenceslas said:

I can so imagine that. Thing is, they think they’re being so clever while basically shooting  themselves in the foot. You put your wife in the role of your mother, you change the dynamic of the relationship. They might not fancy you any more.

Of course, as mentioned above, it’s always hard to know who is being truthful and who is “saying the right thing” to conform to the norm.  In my previous workplace a guy who joined in the discussion with “oh, I actually like doing laundry” (or, even worse, “no one likes chores but I think my wife and I should share them equally”) would have been ridiculed by his peers.

[Whore*of*Mensa]

.

 

[Philip027]

Look, I get that you've had problems with this with your spouse.

 

All I'm asking is to try not to automatically paint everyone who sits back and waits to be asked for help with something as someone who's just trying to get out of doing work, which is a sort of mentality that the aforementioned comic seems to be promoting (not to mention making a harmful stereotype out of males with it, which again, I really don't think this is behavior specific to males; I can think of several people of the female sex I've met in my life who would fit the "male" role in the comic).  There's multiple possible reasons for this sort of behavior and they don't all have to do with laziness.

[Whore*of*Mensa]

1 hour ago, Philip027 said:

Look, I get that you've had problems with this with your spouse.

 

All I'm asking is to try not to automatically paint everyone who sits back and waits to be asked for help with something as someone who's just trying to get out of doing work, which is a sort of mentality that the aforementioned comic seems to be promoting (not to mention making a harmful stereotype out of males with it, which again, I really don't think this is behavior specific to males; I can think of several people of the female sex I've met in my life who would fit the "male" role in the comic).  There's multiple possible reasons for this sort of behavior and they don't all have to do with laziness.

.

[Philip027]

Yeah well, I'm not exactly thrilled with people expecting me to throw myself into tasks and duties that nobody asked me to do when I feel like I have some good reasons for not doing that (primarily, the worry that I'll just do a shit job of it and end up making things even harder on the other person... because that's usually what has happened when I've tried) and then labeling me as "lazy" without even bothering to ask me why.  We both have grievances here.

 

Asking someone to be able to look at something objectively and not just automatically assume the worst of someone else just because it's the convenient position to fall back on... I don't feel that's an unreasonable thing to ask, do you?

[Whore*of*Mensa]

🙄

[Guest]

Mmm. I see Philip's point ... I tried doing dishes at someone's house to help them and got lectured on "proper way to load a dish washer" which made me far less likely to help out in the future. My Aunt corrects and hovers around her husband when he tries to do laundry, cause he "doesn't fold right" and so he has stopped doing it since she redoes it anyway. How you accept help matters in how much help you get.

 

Then there are some who are just lazy and won't work no matter what. 

[Philip027]

Quote

Requiring someone to do their own laundry when they did that before they met you, is not unreasonable.

Not everyone has necessarily done that before meeting you.  I didn't know how to operate a washing machine until long after meeting my spouse for the first time (roughly age 32) and even then I still don't really know how to use it; I only know how to follow a very specific set of instructions, but I don't know what all the various settings and knobs on the machine actually do or mean, or things like how clothing "should" be separated, etc.  Every time I do use it I'm still worried about doing something wrong.

 

Quote

Expecting someone to do your laundry just because you are female, and they are male, is unreasonable. 

I agree, but that's not really the issue at hand though, is it?  Who here is saying that they don't have to do laundry specifically because they are male?

[Whore*of*Mensa]

1 minute ago, Serran said:

Mmm. I see Philip's point ... I tried doing dishes at someone's house to help them and got lectured on "proper way to load a dish washer" which made me far less likely to help out in the future. My Aunt corrects and hovers around her husband when he tries to do laundry, cause he "doesn't fold right" and so he has stopped doing it since she redoes it anyway. How you accept help matters in how much help you get.

 

Then there are some who are just lazy and won't work no matter what. 

Are you serious? How you accept HELP to DO SOMEONE ELSE's LAUNDRY???I didn't want help doing my husband's laundry I WANTED HIM TO DO HIS OWN LAUNDRY because WHY SHOULD I DO IT FOR HIM???

 

WTF???

 

Never in my life have I moved in with someone and then expected them to clean my clothes and wash up my dishes. Has anyone ever done that to you? Can I move in with you and you wash and iron all my clothes please???

[Whore*of*Mensa]

2 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

Not everyone has necessarily done that before meeting you.  I didn't know how to operate a washing machine until long after meeting my spouse for the first time (roughly age 32) and even then I still don't really know how to use it; every time I do use it I'm still worried about doing something wrong.

 

So you moved in with your spouse and they just did your washing for you???

 

How did your washing get done til you were 32????

[Whore*of*Mensa]

I'm logging off, guys this is too much for me....

 

I am SO HAPPY being single. If you found someone to do all your chores good for you....Seriously, well done. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, More*of*Wenceslas said:

Are you serious? How you accept HELP to DO SOMEONE ELSE's LAUNDRY???I didn't want help doing my husband's laundry I WANTED HIM TO DO HIS OWN LAUNDRY because WHY SHOULD I DO IT FOR HIM???

 

WTF???

 

Never in my life have I moved in with someone and then expected them to clean my clothes and wash up my dishes. Has anyone ever done that to you? Can I move in with you and you wash and iron all my clothes please???

If my aunts husband tries to do laundry and his wife stands over him going "no, that's not how you fold that, here this is how" and insists he folds his own clothes her way... yeah it's in how you accept help in a household chore. Plus, quite a lot of households keep a laundry basket, then sort after washing, rather than keeping dirty clothes separate so its communal laundry in the machine. And communal dishes in the sink. So all household chores.  

 

The only time I have ever kept my clothes separate for washing from someone I lived with was my ex husband who complained if his clothes weren't washed exactly the way he liked it. So I washed mine my way and he did his whatever way he liked. I would have done his with mine if he wasn't so picky, given I could do it earlier in day and he missed sleep to do it before work. But whatever. He didn't like my way of doing it. And I wasn't putting that much effort in learning his way. 

 

With my wife and my mom clothes were always washed from the dirty clothes hamper and then sorted after drying into who they belong to. So whoever was doing it did the whole load. My wife does mine and I do hers. Depends who is needing clothes. 

 

Though... my wife was raised never doing laundry so she had to be taught how to use the machine. Her dad's job in the household was laundry, delivered to everyone's room freshly folded or on hangers. 

[Philip027]

Quote

How did your washing get done til you were 32????

Was living with my mom until then.  And guess what, she trusted herself to do the laundry "correctly" more so than she trusted me to do it, and she was always the type that would quickly get impatient with trying to teach someone to do something if she could do it better and more efficiently anyway... so she ended up doing it.

 

All I'm trying to say here is that not everyone is going to have the same experiences growing up as you, and not everyone who may not jump on doing the laundry is going to be like your husband.

[Whore*of*Mensa]

.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Philip027 said:

Was living with my mom until then.  And guess what, she trusted herself to do the laundry "correctly" more so than she trusted me to do it, and she was always the type that would quickly get impatient with trying to teach someone to do something if she could do it better and more efficiently anyway... so she ended up doing it.

 

All I'm trying to say here is that not everyone is going to have the same experiences growing up as you, and not everyone who may not jump on doing the laundry is going to be like your husband.

Like my aunt. 😛 I watched her take the basket from her husband as he tried to fold cause she couldnt stand he only folded a towel over once, she wanted it folded like a hotel. Even though it fit fine on the shelf. She just didn't like the aesthetic. So she just has to do it herself. Since he can't do it "right". So he just doesn't try anymore. 

 

I did it to my wife once cause she was spending like 20 minutes running the faucet on full to wash a single fork... but omg the water bill if every fork takes that much water. I'd rather wash it myself than pay half that. 😛